Talk:Raheel Sharif/Archive 1

Retire or no retire?

Introductory term: Raheel Sharif..... is a retiredfour-star rank army general. ' Can we say that he is not retire? The Pakistani news media is now reporting that he is the chief of staff of the Islamic Military Alliance which is a military service. Is it appropriate to say that he is not retire? Any thoughts?

He is offcourse retired. Imhashmi (talk) 17:51, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Explanation for removal of sources

I removed some sources from the lead section, since it have only one information that he is the new army chief and there is no need for 5 or 6 sources just to verify that. The sources are more or less similar (news reports of various media houses).Rameshnta909 (talk) 10:41, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Just pasting them here incase they need to be reviewed later:

--lTopGunl (talk) 23:06, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Is he Rajput

There is no evidence for him to be a rajput. plz provide any if there is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waqbi (talk • contribs) 10:28, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Rajput?? I don think it's fair to refer a muslim as a rajput. It creates an impression that he is a hindu like saying "Rana Prathap is a rajput king". Besides caste of no other army officers of pakistan are mentioned in any articles. So i think it's better to remove the word.Rameshnta909 (talk) 18:58, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

@Waqbi Source for that is there in the article. @Rameshnta909 You may like to read Muslim Rajputs. -- SMS ^Talk 19:03, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

yeah there is source and i read it but the article is about the army chief/army officer and i don't think the reference to the caste is appropriate there. The main things that are to be referred are his birth place, the positions he held in the military, the awards he got, the corps he led, alma mater etc. See:

1. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani
2. Khalid Shameem Wynne
3. Pervez Musharraf. --- Rameshnta909 (talk) 19:20, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

He is a Jatt, and is from Gujarat in Punjab. Bhattis are known the world over as a Jatt clan. Only a few Bhattis claim to be Rajput and none claim to be ethnic Kashmiris. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jattpunyal (talk • contribs) 20:20, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

This is not a plausible argument that if other articles do not mention it so we omit it here too. It is a biography article and I don't see how/why the subject being related to military makes his origin/caste irrelevant. If we were talking about writing his caste in the lead section I would have agreed to your argument that he is notable as a military person and not as a Rajput. What I do like to see is a Wikipedia's policy or guideline supporting your argument. -- SMS ^Talk 19:41, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about the social system in Pakistan. Is there such importance to caste in the country so that a man in the position of army chief is identified by his caste? If thats the case I think I have to agree with u guyz..Rameshnta909 (talk) 20:38, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

It's not important and no body cares in Pakistan about this with regards to his position as Chief of Staff, but I don't know why there's a slow editwar going on his caste since 10 months ! --lTopGunl (talk) 17:52, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

According to two very reliable sources, he is a Rajput. and background of a military person is not irrelevant. unlike India, in Pakistan being Rajput is ethnic rather than social. As far As Bhattis are concerned Almost all bhattis claim to be rajputs119.158.13.146 (talk) 06:31, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Is he Kashmiri

As i have provided several reliable sources that he is a kashmiri. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waqbi (talk • contribs) 10:26, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

there are no proofs of him being a kashmiri. I have talked to a family friend of him and he said Raheel Shareef is not a Kashmiri.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.185.156.63 (talk • contribs) 19:14, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

what is needed is a cited quote from a reliable third party source. Dlohcierekim 19:17, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

We have sources that talk about his Kashmiri origin. I have added one. -- SMS ^Talk 19:46, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

• @IP: He is most likely a Punjabi-speaking Kashmiri. There are many Kashmiris who settled in Punjab and while their ethnic origins are Kashmiri, they are culturally Punjabi as they have assimilated over time. For example, the Sharif family are considered Kashmiri-Punjabis. Mar4d (talk) 16:52, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

These sources are relevant:

• "Pakistan army chief: Nawaz picks fellow Kashmiri, ignores seniority". Rediff. 27 November 2013. Retrieved 1 December 2013.
• "All eyes on new Pak army chief Raheel Sharif". Hindustan Times. 28 November 2013. Retrieved 1 December 2013. While the Sharif family is originally from Gujrat city in Punjab, it traces its roots to Kashmir.

Mar4d (talk) 17:03, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

There are complete proof of that he is kashmiri and i have mentioned several articles under. He is from a bhatti kashmiri cast, and the media was critisizing nawaz sharif for picking a person from his own cast, (nawaz sharif is a kashmiri butt). there are several bhatti living in punjab specially kharian, jhelum and small villages who belong to the bhatti kashmiri cast, not the bhatti rajput. These bhattis marry within kashmiri cast not rajput. several news agencies reported him to be kashmiri.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1059043/raheel-sharif-is-new-army-chief-mehmood-cjcsc

Gen hamid gul was talking about this in the program of javed chaudary "Kal Tak" that one of the reason nawaz sharif gave promotion to him was due to the fact that they were of same cast. i have a relative living in "kunja" who is "Gouri" and he confirmed that they are kashmiris.

Also check this article by a well reputed columist Muhammad Bilal Gouri,"Kya sharif hona Juram hah" where he writed that people critisizing nawaz sharif for choosing him as an army chief only becacuse of having same cast and same last name is false and then he gives several reasons why he is a ery suitable candidate for the position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waqbi (talk • contribs) 10:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

We only write what reliable sources say. His Kashmiri origin is already mentioned in the article with reliable sources supporting it but these sources don't go further whether he is "Butt" or "Bhatti". And there is a source saying he is a Rajput, so please don't remove sourced info. -- SMS ^Talk 10:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

• @Waqbi, this petty issue is not something worth getting your self blocked for (which you will at this pace of editwar). Try dispute resolution... you can call neutral unrelated editors to counter check for you via this (from WP:BLPN maybe) if you want further surety. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:51, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Kashmiri or Rajput? Is that such a big issue? Is it even important in the personal details of a military personnel? His caste is not an information worth knowing. If he is born in or he has any relatives in kashmir, that should be mentioned. Besides caste is not mentioned in other articles about military personnel from Pakistan.Rameshnta909 (talk) 18:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's undue to have something long about cast.. but I guess this dispute is just on the bare mention on which one it is... just go for the verifiable RS. --lTopGunl (talk) 13:54, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

How can one make Rana and Bhatti a kashmiri,, that is like making butt a punjabi caste.. its not true i have given detailed information in the new sectionSaladin1987 17:34, 20 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

No rana or bhatti can be a kashmiri,, here we are talking abt proper kashmiri castes like butts,lone dar etc not sheikh malik rajput etc

First of all you need to know that his blood brothers name is Shabbir Sharif Rana where rana is a rajput name. [[1]][[2]]

[[3]]

the reason that some people are confused about him to be a kashmiri is because alot of indian sources took sharif out of his name and nawaz name and thought both are lahori and kashmiri as mentioned here [[4]].. but he is a rajput maybe a bhatti rajput from kashmir but is from gujrat in pakistan as is his brother and uncle.

On the other hand he is nephew of Raja Aziz Bhatti who is a Rajput as here [[5]] and also from his name

Now this is just a misconception.. and i think you can clear it out atleast .. there is one source that is rediff for kashmiri but there are most sources regarding his brother and himself which state he is a rajput

ONLY THE INDIAN SOURCES LIKE [[6]][[7]] PEOPLE IN INDIA DONT EVEN KNOW THERE ARE MUSLIM RAJPUT THEN HOW CAN THEK TALK ABOUT THEM..

HERE ARE SOURCES THAT CONFIRM HIM RAJPUT RANA SURNAME OF HIS BROTHER [[8]] [[9]] NOW AZIZ BHATTI [[10]]

ONE THING IS CLEAR THAT HE IS RANA AND BHATTI AS FROM HIS BROTHER AND UNCLE NOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW A RANA AND BHATTI IS KASHMIRI AND WHERE IS SOURCE THAT THEY WERE BHATTIS FROM KASHMIR. NAWAZ SHARIF'S LAST NAME IS BEING USED TO ASSCOIATE EVERY SHARIF TO BE A KASHMIRI, WELL NAWAZ SHARIF IS NOT KASHMIRI EITHER HE IS FROM TARKHAN CASTE .. ONE THING IS CLEAR HE IS RAJPUT , RAJPUTS, SHINS ARE NOT KASHMIRI IN KASHMIR BY THE KOSHUR SPEAKERS.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

They are in fact not Kashmiris regarding connotations of Kashmiris in Pakistan

Raheel Sharif family is not a Kashmiri as connotations of Kashmiris in Pakistan. Those from castes such as Butt, Dar and Khawaja etc are referred to as Kashmiris in Pakistan, This is because these castes were not native to Punjab and other areas of Pakistan. Raheel Sharif is even not from the Kashmir. moreover I personally know a lot of Rajputs from Kashmir who are settled in Punjab Pakistan. They are never considered Kashmiris nor they consider themselves as such. This is due to local Rajput population in Punjab in which they have merged. comment added by User:The Pakistan Bro my czns maternal family is khawaja from chakwal they are not kashmiris,, khawjaa sheikh are khatris and i think khawaja kashmiris are khatri too as they are all involved in business a sole thing that khatris are best at .. khawaja jehangir of lahore and chakwal group owned by khawajas is punjabis from chakwal ,, and the khawaja in gujranwala belt and some in lahore are kashmiris,, if all khawaja were kahsmiri then khawaja in pashtun, sindhis and khawaja moin ud din chishti wud be kashmiri too lolSaladin1987 20:47, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Okay you might be true regarding Khawaja, because its title. and let me confirm you that Raheel Sharif family are Rajputs. you were right. in addition to 'The News', Info in this regard is also available on Urdu biography page over here [Urdu Biography] The Pakistan (talk) 23:18, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

ethnicity

he is not a punjabi therefore category:punjabi people must be removed--2001:16A2;48D:8900:EC05:A3A8:5CE6:9074 (talk) 19:20, 25 January 2016 (UTC) and following sentence should be also removed because there are no reliable refs about that, probably this may be added by Punjabi:

He belongs to a Rajput family[3][4][5] with roots in Punjab (in the town of Kunjah, Gujrat).[3]