Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Science Fiction/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

the reality of Kalgash

Someone's done a study on the physical feasibility of the system as described in Asimov's Nightfall story.

  • Smaran Deshmukh, Jayant Murthy (18 July 2014). "Nightfall: Can Kalgash Exist" (published July 2014). arXiv:1407.4895. Bibcode:2014arXiv1407.4895D. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help); Unknown parameter |publicationdate= ignored (|publication-date= suggested) (help)

-- (talk)

Scope and genre thread

In spite of the notice at the top of this page, it seems to be more watched than the Discussion Forum, so i want to draw attention to Wikipedia:WikiProject Science Fiction/Discussion Forum#Scope and genre, which I started. I hope for more project members to give their views. DES (talk) 17:49, 19 July 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RfC: Are personal pronouns (including "who") to be avoided for fictional characters?

Please take part in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#RfC: Are personal pronouns (including "who") to be avoided for fictional characters? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 23:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just FYI, this non-neutrally set up reductio ad absurdum RfC has actually moved on to a more serious discussion about whether MoS should advise rewording to avoid particularly confusing uses of "who[m]" and "[s]he" when writing about fictional characters in an out-of-universe way (e.g. as intellectual property). Further input from projects that actually write encyclopedically about fictional characters a lot would be useful.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  03:49, 22 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RfC on unusual prepositions in titles

 – Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Please see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Proposal regarding unusual prepositions in titles (re: clarification request in RM closure).  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  20:43, 22 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Time Patrol

Hi, I am French and I am sorry to see that there is no item about the Poul Anderson's book : Time Patrol (the most famous novel in Europe).

Can someone write something about the novel (see here in French) or the novella (see here) ? Thank you.

I had insert here the same message on 13rd of april, 2013, but nobody did answer.

Sincerely yours,

--Éric Messel (Send a message) 21:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Éric Messel (talkcontribs)

Fork of the Astounding/Analog article

Editor Galerivs has created a fork of the Astounding/Analog article, and I've asked for comments on the talk page. Would any interested editors comment at Talk:Analog Science Fiction and Fact#Fork of this article? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:38, 6 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The editor in question has reverted me again; I'd appreciate more comments at the talk page. P64 has commented there, against a split, and Orangemike reverted Galerivs without comment, so that's three to one, but I'd rather not edit war. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:23, 14 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Grants:IEG/Wikipedia likes Galactic Exploration for Posterity 2015

Dear Fellow Wikipedians,

I JethroBT (WMF) suggested that I consult with fellow Wikipedians to get feedback and help to improve my idea about "As an unparalleled way to raise awareness of the Wikimedia projects, I propose to create a tremendous media opportunity presented by launching Wikipedia via space travel."

Please see the idea at Please post your suggestions on the talk page and please feel free to edit the idea and join the project.

Thank you for your time and attention in this matter. I appreciate it.

My best regards, Geraldshields11 (talk) 22:07, 13 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tank Girl at FAC

Tank Girl (film) is back as FAC again, after having undergone significant improvements. All comments on the nomination are welcome – see here. Thanks. Freikorp (talk) 04:07, 18 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

From The Doctor to my son Thomas - featured article candidate

I've nominated the article about the video From The Doctor to my son Thomas for Featured Article consideration.

The article is about a message sent from actor Peter Capaldi in-character in his role as the Doctor on Doctor Who, to console an autistic young boy over grief from the death of his grandmother.

Comments would be appreciated, at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/From The Doctor to my son Thomas/archive1.

Thank you for your time,

Cirt (talk) 01:05, 20 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Deletion to Quality Award

I've created the WP:Deletion to Quality Award.

This recognizes editors who've taken a page previously considered for deletion — to Featured Article or Good Article quality.

The award is inspired by the Wikipedia:Million Award, the Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron, and the Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement.

Please see Wikipedia:Deletion to Quality Award.

Thank you,

Cirt (talk) 00:36, 21 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cool. That's a good award to have since it would encourage fixing all the problems that would cause it to be deleted. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:13, 21 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you, Nihonjoe, exactly, agreed ! — Cirt (talk) 05:19, 24 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Proposed deletion of Temporal war

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Temporal war has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

no references for ten years

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. BrightRoundCircle (talk) 11:21, 9 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Illuminatus article review

I have nominated The Illuminatus! Trilogy for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. DrKay (talk) 09:56, 15 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comparison of Star Trek and Star Wars

Help on editing Comparison of Star Trek and Star Wars would be appreciated. There are questions over the neutrality, e.g. it may be too pro-Trek. The quality of the sourcing has also been questioned. See the talk page for more on this debate. Finding additional sources that directly compare the two and/or better working in the existing sources would be welcome. Fences&Windows 20:47, 17 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Proposal to create an infobox for fictional conflicts

I am proposing that an infobox be created for fictional conflicts, as currently many articles on fictional conflicts, as well as a real-time virtual battle, use Template:Infobox military conflict. To centralize discussion, please reply, if interested, at the infobox talk page I've linked to here.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 05:34, 16 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good sources

I've recently started collecting reference work related to sf. This is the ones I know of, with notes on availability:

Brave new words the Oxford dictionary of science fiction by Jeff Prucher: semi-officially available offline:
Encyclopedia Of Science Fiction (Library Movements) by Don D'Ammassa: found on Z-Library
The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction by Peter Nicholls, John Clute, David Langford: officially available online:
The Greenwood Encyclopedia of Science Fiction and Fantasy by Gary Westfahl: list of chapters; partial preview on Google Books: Volume 1 (A-K), Volume 2 (L-Z) Volume 3
The Mammoth Encyclopedia of Science Fiction by George Mann: found on Z-Library
Science Fact and Science Fiction: An Encyclopedia by Brian Stableford: found on Z-Library
Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction - Brian Ash (index search only): found on Z-Library (not OCRed)
Please let me know if you know of any other good works to add to this list, which perhaps we could split into a subpage of this project? Ping User:Daranios, User:TompaDompa, User:Jclemens, User:BOZ... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:07, 14 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've got several volumes each on Babylon 5 and Stargate, but the one dead tree book in my collection that's a bit more general is Jan Johnson-Smith's 2005 American Science Fiction TV: Star Trek, Stargate, and Beyond ISBN 9780819567383. I don't have any of the others. Jclemens (talk) 05:23, 14 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The main site that I look at is which is not a reference in and of itself, but if you look at any page it may list any number of reviews for a given fiction or non-fiction work. For example, this page shows 6 reviews of one of the works you mentioned: BOZ (talk) 14:47, 14 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cool, should be enough to stub and even DYK an article on that (The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction). I'll add it to my to do list. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:54, 14 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I keep a list of sf references I own; see here. I haven't updated it in years but it hasn't changed that dramatically. I'll try to get it updated soon. Feel free to steal it and edit it as the basis of a project subpage if that would be useful. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:21, 14 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Piotrus: I'd add Locus's Science Fiction Awards Database (SFADB), which is like an index of references (in addition to awards). It has both general and author-specific lists of citations.
The general list is here, and the more focused one is under the "Citations" tab for that author, e.g. Samuel Delany's page has a list of 31 references where his books have been cited. Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 20:17, 16 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Piotrus: I would add Science Fiction Literature through History: An Encyclopedia by Gary Westfahl (partially available via Google Books) to that list. TompaDompa (talk) 16:29, 27 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spoiler warnings needed!

I just added one for a detailed plot summary for "A Gift from the Culture," a classic short story by the late Iain M. Banks that I found particularly egregious. But I've noticed others almost as bad. That would be a useful project for someone, perhaps even me..... --Pete Tillman (talk) 19:11, 11 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See WP:SPOILER and this RfC on the spoiler template; we don't use spoiler warnings any more. The second link is more definite on this than the first; I can't find a clearer statement, but I'm pretty sure there is one somewhere. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:27, 11 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Mike Christie Anyone interested in this - can you find something to show this story is notable? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:15, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
1) It was announced that it was going to be turned into a film. Not a lot of Banks-related media projects out there, even ones that eventually don't go through.
2) Cramer and Hartwell singled it out for specific comment in their well-regarded book on the New Space Opera. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:20, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See this list of reviews of the collection in which it was included. I don't know if any of those specifically discuss the story but they might well do. One of the reviews is by me, but I have no recollection of whether I mentioned that story and that issue is in a box somewhere in the basement. Searching Google Scholar also finds an article by Simon Guerrier in Foundation 28 that mentions it. There's also Simone Caroti's The Culture Series of Iain M. Banks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:28, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Mike Christie and @Orangemike: 1) that announcement did not generate much buzz 2) that one-two sentence mention in passing fails WP:SIGCOV 3) thank you, that would be good review, although in the end, the requirement to check if those sources contain stuff remains on the people who want to keep it. WP:BEFORE of course applies, but only up to a reasonable level. I'll see if any of these sources are accessible online shortly and review those that are. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:16, 26 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Quatermass and the Pit under FA review

I have nominated Quatermass and the Pit for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. --George Ho (talk) 00:04, 24 January 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

FAR for StarCraft

I have nominated StarCraft (video game) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 04:43, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

User script to detect unreliable sources

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

  • John Smith "Article of things" Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[ Article of things]" ''''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Contested Jack Vance novels merger to Demon Princes

There is a discussion at Talk:Demon Princes. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've updated the References subpage with a list of good SF sources along with availability, as suggested by Piotrus in /Archive 3#Good sources. It has links to the Internet Archive and The Wikipedia Library, and if those two are unavailable, Google Books previews. I think everything Piotrus and TompaDompa mentioned are there; I haven't looked into Mike Christie's huge list yet. Please feel free to expand the list! (Note: the "Fannish references" section is from an old version of the page from 2011.) Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 05:48, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for doing that. I am about to be limited to iPad editing for a day or so, and away from my books, so may not be able to post much, but I will try to post some suggestions. The library link in my signature is at least ten years out of date, and maybe this will give me the incentive to update it. Some suggestions off the top of my head:
  • The Magill Survey of Science Fiction Literature and Survey of Fantasy Literature; five volumes of assessments of famous books.
  • Mike Ashley's four volume History of the Science Fiction Magazine from the 1970s, and the updated history that began to appear in 2000, starting with The Time Machines.
  • Ashley & Tymn's Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Weird Fiction Magazines.
  • Galactic Central, a reliable source for bibliographic data, and which includes the Contento indexes.
  • Unfortunately we need to note that the [ ISFDB] is not reliable for FAs, per some FAC review discussions, though it's a great place to find information that can be verified elsewhere.
  • Bleiler's Science Fiction: The Gernsback Years and Science Fiction: The Early Years.
  • Ashley and Lowndes The Gernsback Days.
  • For UK fannish history, Rob Hansen's Then is an encyclopedic source.
  • There are bios of individual writers, such as Asimov's autobiographies and Mark Rich's book on Kornbluth, but I don't know if it's worth listing all of those -- I assume we're looking at fairly general references here?
  • How about things like Damon Knight's The Futurians, which is heavily focused on a small group over a short time?
-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:36, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for these! I've added everything you suggested except for the individual writer bios. Yes I think it'd be good to keep it to general references. Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 18:07, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I added some more that I've used for various articles. I wasn't sure where to place all of them, so there's a bunch of "others" now. TompaDompa (talk) 17:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! Renamed it to "general references" - maybe that sounds better? Feel free to re-org if you have a better idea. (We added a couple of books at the same time; I've removed duplicates.) Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 18:10, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A few more possible additions:
  • There's another volume of Mike Ashley's history out now, called Rise of the Cyberzines.
  • How about a section on sf art? Great Balls of Fire by Harry Harrison, Infinite Worlds by Vincent di Fate, and Science Fiction Art by Brian Aldiss all come to mind. There's also James Gunn, Alternate Worlds: The Illustrated History of Science Fiction, but that's more of a general history with lots of illustrations. The same goes for David Kyle's A Pictorial History of Science Fiction.
  • Leif Davin has two useful books: Partners in Wonder about women in sf 1926-65; and Pioneers of Wonder; interviews with early figures in sf, such as Eshbach, Moskowitz, Lasser, and Hornig.
  • Paul Carter's The Creation of Tomorrow and del Rey's The World of Science Fiction should probably be added; Carter is primarily focused on magazines; del Rey covers 1926-50 and so does cover the magazines but is a bit more general.
  • Alec Nevala-Lee's Astounding is focused on Campbell, Asimov, Heinlein, and Hubbard and is an excellent recent book.
  • There's a 140-page history of pre-Amazing magazines in the back of Moskowitz's Under the Moons of Mars; that and Mike Ashley's The Age of the Storyteller are probably worth adding, though they focus on the genre before it became a genre.
  • Sam Moskowitz has two volumes of biographical sketches of important sf figures, both genre and pre-genre, in Seekers of Tomorrow and Explorers of the Infinite. I have heard that there are some errors in these, so I use them sparingly, but they can be useful.
  • Donald Tuck's three volume Encyclopedia of Science Fiction should be included. It only covers up to 1968, and large parts of it have been superseded by other bibliographical resources, but it's still quotable for opinions on stories and books, and it does have some bibliographical information that I've found useful and can't find elsewhere.
  • The Dictionary of Literary Biography has a volume on sf writers; it's volume 8, in two physical volumes.
  • Do we want to list books of scholarship about sf? These range from old books like Inquiry into Science Fiction by Basil Davenport, from 1955, through Dark Suvin's Metamorphoses of Science Fiction, to Westfahl's The Mechanics of Wonder. There may be too many of these to list, so perhaps we should only include the ones that editors have found useful in constructing articles. I've almost exclusively focused on magazine articles, so I have to say I haven't used this sort of book much, and can't speak to which are useful, though I do have quite a few.
  • There must be a ton of references for film sf, which is an area I have few books on.
  • Three old critical books I have found useful to get opinions on old classic stories (or old crappy stories): Damon Knight's In Search of Wonder, and James Blish's The Issue at Hand and More Issues at Hand, both under his William Atheling alias.
  • When discussing a story or novel, it's always worth digging up reviews. I have an old review index by Hal Hall, but it's largely (but not completely) duplicated by the ISFDB now. The ISFDB isn't reliable, but for this purpose that doesn't matter since it's just a pointer to finding reviews elsewhere. Then of course you have to find someone who has the 1953 issue of F&SF or SF Adventures, which is usually the hard part. Locus has tons of reviews for more recent work and should probably be mentioned for that reason.
  • Finally, given that many editors are going to want to write biographical articles about sf writers, perhaps we should include bios and autobiographies after all? After all, particularly for pre-1960 writers, the social circles were small enough that you can go to Fred Pohl's The Way the Future Was for information about Kornbluth, and to Rich's bio of Kornbluth for information about Lowndes, and so on.
-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:51, 8 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
All done. Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 00:55, 9 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That was quick! I have a couple more biographies that are worth adding, now you've started that section: Fred Nadis, The Man From Mars, about Ray Palmer; Jeffrey Marks' Anthony Boucher; Amy Binns' Hidden Wyndham; and Philip Sherman's Leo Margulies. Perhaps as sf GAs and FAs are added, we can review their sources and see what else could be added to the page. Thanks for taking this on! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:55, 9 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And two more I just remembered; Kingsley Amis's New Maps of Hell, and Hell's Cartographers, a collection of excellent autobiographical essays by Silverberg, Knight, Pohl, Harrison, Aldiss, and one other writer I forget. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:23, 9 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Added; hope the era division is correct. And yes I agree about sources from FAs/GAs. If anyone is interested in a similar list for fantasy – WP:FANTASYREFS – feel free to comment on/expand that too. Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 17:49, 9 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]