Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism

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Discussion Board Discussions relating to Wikipedia's coverage of Jews and Judaism. (edit) (back to top)

Aleph Institute

Would members like to create a page about the Aleph Institute N.E. Region. Current page is only regarding Florida branch. Helpfulguy101 17:34 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC

Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.

Shem HaMephorash has an RFC

Shem HaMephorash, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.

Morris Soller

Hello WPJ. I have created Morris Soller and have probable but not sufficient information. Because I have not done this before WPJ's input is welcome at Talk:Morris Soller. Thank you in advance. Invasive Spices (talk) 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Who is Agur?

I’m asking you a question who is Agur? 2600:6C5A:637F:CE3C:877:BDDB:6B34:674A (talk) 14:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

You'll have to be more specific. GordonGlottal (talk) 16:21, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

This is like the beginning of an ARG... A cryptic question with no accompanying background information, and the name of the person asking looks like a mac address.

Was the question intended to be on the article Agur? GreenEli (talk) 16:50, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Chanale is back. Article overhauled and submitted to AfC

I'm going to start this off with apologies if I should be replying to the now-archived discussion I started on this article earlier.

I just finished up a complete overhaul of the article on American-Israeli singer Chanale that I'd been working on. Following its deletion and return to draft space, I took the time to dig deep into the details left over from the article's creator and original authors. I also corrected a bunch of errors in the details, about timing of things in her life, album release dates and whatnot. I think I've taken the entire tone and view of the article in a far better direction.

I still wasn't entirely sure what to do about some related items that don't directly reference her, so I put some in external links, and linked some others (mostly the mentioned podcast episodes) within the article itself. Sadly, I know that there was a feature done on her in Ami Living Magazine's Shabbos Chanukah 2021 issue but haven't been able to get my hands on a physical or digital copy to see for myself. From other features I've seen from the magazine, there's usually quite a lot from which to pull.

Still, I submitted the article to AfC. I'd love to get input on the new version, especially compared to the original. TIA GreenEli (talk) 17:05, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi GreenEli, can you link to where the current draft is ? Sorry, I looked at recent threads on your talk page and didn't see it there either. Dan Carkner (talk) 23:12, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Requesting support on a Jewish musician article

Over on the article for Chemy Soibelman, another editor (who I have to assume isn't super knowledgeable about Judaism) contested the subject being categorized as an Orthodox Jew since the article doesn't directly state that. I pointed out that a guy named Nechemia Soibelman, who has almost exclusively played in Orthodox Jewish and Israeli bands (including the Orthodox wedding band Blue Melody), who lists Yaakov Shwekey as an influence, and who is wearing a yarmulke in pretty much every photo available online being Jewish is a pretty reasonable assumption that wouldn't require spelling out for someone knowledgeable in this area (for context, I'm Jewish of Orthodox background). The other editor held their ground, insisting on a source, so to appease them I dug up this post from the subject's Instagram, where he is pictured wearing a kippah, tefillin, and tallit, and the caption is full of expressions like "hashem took your neshama to gan eden" and "daven for klal yisrael" and "may your neshama have an aliya" - all of which, to anyone familiar with Orthodox Judaism, pretty explicitly identifies him as part of it (or I guess a really dedicated Messianic). The other editor dismissed this as OR because, in their words, "just because he talks about jewish holidays or wears garb that Jewish people sometimes wear doesn't mean he's Jewish". *sigh*

Main thing I'm looking for here is a) affirmation that I'm not crazy and all of the above should be enough for a knowledgeable audience without needing a source to spell out "This person is an Orthodox Jew", and b) if someone from this project who is knowledgeable could at least watchlist that article and be prepared to serve as a third opinion if that editor decides to start this up again, that'd be incredibly helpful. Invisiboy42293 (talk) 22:30, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

See Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Project-independent quality assessments. This proposes support for quality assessment at the article level, recorded in {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and inherited by the wikiproject banners. However, wikiprojects that prefer to use custom approaches to quality assessment can continue to do so. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:41, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Kokebe Yizhak moved to draftspace

Hello, friends. An article I created, Kokebe Yizhak, based on The Jewish Encyclopedia article "KOKEBE YIẒḤAḲ", was recently moved to draftspace. My personal opinion is that if it was perfectly fine for The Jewish Encyclopedia, than it should be perfectly fine for Wikipedia as well. I wouldn’t disagree if it would be tagged with Template:One source, but I don’t think it deserves to be moved to draftspace. What do you think? Or is someone willing to add other sources and/or otherwise make it ready for mainspace? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. -- -- -- 20:13, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Shraga Feivel Cohen moved to draftspace

Is anyone willing to assist in making this draft ready for mainspace? Thanks, -- -- -- 20:50, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Antisemitism on page for "Supremacism"

The Jewish section of the Supremacism article is a hot mess of antisemitism. The portion on outreach to Noahides was claiming that Orthodox Judaism, or sects of it, are "racist" and believe non-Jews are "racially" inferior. I've removed some of the more outrageous language, but the entire section needs a clean-up. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 08:17, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm a Noahide, I study with Orthodox rabbanan, and can confirm that they do not claim that. The claim is that the Torah is superior over idolatry, and that anyone who wants to can learn it. By choosing Torah (not by biological genetics) jews and any one else can improve their spiritual, intellectual, and moral conditional. I myself have done this, and I believe that they are right. Jaredscribe (talk) 22:52, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Next time just tag it right away using {{dubious}} or {{disputed}}. I did that just now, and will try to find some sources refuting this in the future. Jaredscribe (talk) 23:06, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

The concept of race is a form of human categorization, scientists know that races don't exist. However, I would also point out to the very first pages of Feldman's academic research on the Noahide community in the Philippines (2018), cited in the WP article on Supremacism; she reports that the modern Noahide movement was founded by Orthodox Jewish and Religious Zionist rabbis from Israel in the 1990s, who have decidedly instructed the Filipino Noahides to believe that they are racially inferior to Jews and are forbidden from reading Jewish scriptures and performing Jewish rites and customs, as well as to support their messianic, supremacist movement in order to rebuild the third Jewish temple in Jerusalem:

"Today, nearly 2,000 Filipinos consider themselves members of the ‘‘Children of Noah,’’ a new Judaic faith that is growing into the tens of thousands worldwide as ex-Christians encounter forms of Jewish learning online. Under the tutelage of Orthodox Jewish rabbis, Filipino ‘‘Noahides,’’ as they call themselves, study Torah, observe the Sabbath, and passionately support a form of messianic Zionism. Filipino Noahides believe that Jews are a racially superior people, with an innate ability to access divinity. According to their rabbi mentors, they are forbidden from performing Jewish rituals and even reading certain Jewish texts. These restrictions have necessitated the creation of new, distinctly Noahide ritual practices and prayers modeled after Jewish ones. Filipino Noahides are practicing a new faith that also affirms the superiority of Judaism and Jewish biblical right to the Land of Israel, in line with the aims of the growing messianic Third Temple Movement in Jerusalem."

GenoV84 (talk) 08:36, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

References
References

Issues with Black Hebrew Israelites article

The article on Black Hebrew Israelites has multiple issues that need to be addressed to avoid racial bias on Wikipedia. The BHIs originated at a time when many white Christian denominations preached that Black people are the cursed descendants of Ham. That is the historical backdrop of the BHI claim that Black people are not only NOT cursed, but rather the chosen. That this historical background information is never mentioned in the article is astounding and is evidence that the article is insufficient. That the voices of actual Black Jews are mentioned nowhere in the article is another glaring omission. Black Jewish writers such as Shais Rishon, and I'm sure others, have written about the BHI appropriation of Black Jewish identity. The sentence in the opening paragraph about the SPLC considering BHIs to collectively constitute a "hate group" is contextless and inadequate. The SPLC states on their website that "SPLC uses the term Radical Hebrew Israelite to differentiate from the greater Hebrew Israelite faith...SPLC no longer refers to these groups as solely Black Hebrew Israelites...there are non-radical sects of the Hebrew Israelite faith who identify as Black Hebrew Israelites". This indicates that the SPLC distinguishes between extremist and non-extremist BHI sects, a nuance the current sentence obscures. These issues must be addressed to avoid anti-Blackness, stereotyping, and the erasure of Black Jews. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 04:41, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Yehuda Amit

Yehuda Amit has been proposed for deletion. Is anyone willing to assist? Thanks, -- -- -- 22:13, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

I made a deep enough search but I just couldn't find any reliable sources for this person. Just being a rosh yeshiva, dean, school principal or what have you doesn't confer automatic notability on a person for the purposes of this encyclopedia. If it were to be dePRODded and then later nominated for AfD, I highly doubt it would make it. Havradim leaf a message 02:44, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

OK, thanks. -- -- -- 21:15, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Shalom Rozenfeld (also known as Rabbi Shalom of Kaminka) moved to draftspace

Is anyone willing to assist? Thanks, -- -- -- 22:17, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

I tried searching his full name on the Yiddish Book Center's OCR search and no results... would he be known by a particular shorter version of his name that's likely to appear in print? Dan Carkner (talk) 02:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for responding, Dan! You might want to try searching "שלום קאַמינקער". Quick Google searches for "Shalom of Kaminka" and "שלום מקמינקה" (Hebrew spelling) yield quite a few sources, but I'm not sure exactly which ones would be accepted by Wikipedia as reliable sources. Any assistance from you or from others would be appreciated. Meanwhile I'll try to work on this article myself. -- -- -- 19:43, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

With that "name" I was able to find a good number of minor hits in the Yiddish Book Center collection. However, most are just a passing mention, which can be good to establish facts but not necessarily notability. Do we know if there is any longer biographical description of him in books, even if they may not be in English? Dan Carkner (talk) 14:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I found a description in מליצי אש (Hebrew) [1]. I’ll add some information from there later (maybe tomorrow) when I’ll have a chance. Besides from that, the Hebrew Wikipedia provides an external link to this site (subscription required) and the Yiddish Wikipedia cites the books י"ג אורות and אנציקלופדיה לחכמי גליציה. Not sure if any of those are available online. -- -- -- 21:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I submitted the draft for review. Please feel free to improve it in the meantime. Thanks, -- -- -- 23:05, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Looking better already. If I may suggest some edits while you are looking at the sources (I have some other stuff to do for now), you can fill it out more with some very basic facts about his life: Where was he born, where did he live at different times, what year did he move cities if he did, where did he pass away, etc. And if place names are given that are not known internationally I think it makes sense to say which empire and province they were in, and if relevant say what larger city it was close to. Not suggesting this just to pad out the article but also because just a list of scholars and small places in Europe will not mean much to a casual reader, who may not have a context for what all these names mean. Dan Carkner (talk) 16:27, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. -- -- -- 20:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

13th of Adar, Fast of Esther

Today is the Fast of Esther, and in its honor I have undertaken to WP:Boldly rewrite that article's lede sentence and section, along with those of several other articles of major importance to this project: antisemitism and antijudaism, and quite a few others as well, following the leading critical theory of David Nirenberg § Anti-judaism, which should be read closely and cited all over wikipedia in the coming years. They all need more work in the article bodies, but I hope this breaks the ice. Chag purim sameach, Jaredscribe (talk) 00:07, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

ויקהלו היהודים בעריהם, בכל מדינות המלך אחשורוו, לשלח יד...

Jaredscribe (talk) 00:35, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Made some improvements to Badchen

Hello folks, I think I may have posted about this article in past years in this talk page or maybe another Jewish-related one. Anyhow this week I tried to make some scholarly improvements to the article Badchen and I found some nice public domain postcard illustrations to decorate the article, and rearranged the content somewhat. The two things I would be happy to get help on are current day Chassidic badchnonim, which in past years we had a hard time finding reputable sources about, and also feel free to add anything about their religious or social function in past centuries which I don't feel I fully understand even after researching it a while. Dan Carkner (talk) 16:31, 10 March 2023 (UTC)