Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Highways

Problems with Irish cross-border roads

Can I get a second opinion on something? I've been expanding a few major concession roads across the Republic of Ireland-United Kingdom border. As they're in separate countries, they have separate road classifications, but because they derive from a single road, and the border was formed from historic county boundaries that were never intended to be an international frontier, they're hard to separate. In particular, A3 road (Northern Ireland) and N54 road (Ireland) are basically different parts of the same road from Clones to Cavan, which is notorious for crossing to and from the North to the Republic again and again, and there's loads of history to write about, such as the road being blocked during the Irish War of Independence, side roads being blown up by the British Army during the Troubles, or the central, isolated bit of County Monaghan becoming an "untouchable" rubbish dump, and the parts in County Fermanagh being populated by cut-price liquor and fireworks stores. It doesn't really make sense to put all that in two separate articles.

A search on sources show a possible WP:COMMONNAME is Clones to Cavan Road which I can see in sources here, here, here. here and here, from a quick search. What does everyone else think? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:09, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Well legally and functionally they're two separate roads that happen to join with each other. As a result I'd treat them as separate entities on each side of the border. Canterbury Tail talk 01:38, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Curiously enough, there is a similar debate happening at Talk:U.S. Route 395, largely due to the fact there is a short connector in Canada with the same number. I don't have strong opinions either way, but have generally found that when you you try to create one highway article that is mantained by 2 different transportation agencies, it's hard as each one has different data they publish, and formats the data differently, so it's hard to have a consistent article that doesn't read like 2 articles glued together. However, I have supported a few such merges to create combined articles in the past, usually because one of the 2 is extremely short, and not a lot of info is available and would likely be a permastub, or nominated at AFD if left as a stand alone article. Dave (talk) 01:54, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Watling Street is somewhat similar. The article describes a route, which has various designations along the way. There are separate articles about the major designations (like A2 and A5) but not for sections bypassed in modern times. Your suggestion (or Clones– Monaghan road) makes a lot of sense. Surely it is the route that is notable, not its transient designations.

But anything to do with that part of the world is contentious and there are "unknown unknowns" for anyone not deeply familiar with the local nuances. It would be wise to invite comment from the relevant wikiprojects. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I have notified Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland of this discussion. I think the principal difference between the Clones-Cavan Road and the route 395 is, as Dave suggests, the latter is treated as separate entities in the respective sources, and the route as a whole crosses the border once, not repeatedly back and forth. It's also reasonable to say that the US-Canadian border is nowhere near as politically sensitive as the UK-ROI border (you can cross it without realising). Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:18, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Ritchie333:: I suggest that if you create an article called Clones to Cavan Road (or whatever) that you state in the lead paragraph that "Following the Partition of Ireland in 1921 the section of the road in the Republic of Ireland was designated as the N54 road and the section in Northern Ireland was designated as the A3 road."

Then in both of those articles, insert a section heading called something like Crime on the N54 road (or Cross-border problems on the N64 road, or whatever) and Crime on the A4 road (or whatever), respectively.

Below that heading, add:

Main article: Clones to Cavan Road

The code for that is:

{{Main|Clones to Cavan Road}}

You could leave it at that or add a brief common summary of the Clones to Cavan Road article to both of the existing articles, below your new section heading.

Now, the three articles point to each other in a theoretically fair manner and should minimise the risk of unintended provocation concerning a potentially politically-delicate article. But, of course, unforeseen resentment is crowd sourced as easily as encyclopaedia building! O'Dea (talk) 01:43, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Asin–Nangalisan–San Pascual Road#Requested move 5 May 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Asin–Nangalisan–San Pascual Road#Requested move 5 May 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 23:16, 12 May 2023 (UTC)