Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Finland

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Proposed modifications to the WikiProject:Finland assessment process

I have three proposals for changes to the WP:FINLAND assessment process that I'd like to hear the others' thoughts on. Please see the following subsections. -Ljleppan (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Proposal 1: Explicitly criteria-based B-class assessment

The quality scale already refers to the six B-class criteria. In some other WikiProjects, articles are explicitly evaluated against these (or similar) criteria, with the relevant WikiProject talk page templates having parameters for the various criteria. Examples include {{WikiProject Military History}} and {{WikiProject Germany}}, which evaluate against a five-criteria version of the B-class criteria (See Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany/Assessment/B-Class and Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/B-Class. This has be benefit of making the B-class evaluation more transparent for both the evaluators and the article contributors.

With this background, I propose that the {{WikiProject Finland}} banner be modified to accept parameters for b1 through b5 (as per the linked WikiProjects) or b1 through b6 (as per the global B-class criteria), and B-class assessment be tied directly to the fulfillment of these criteria. Given that b1-b5 appears to be more common in other WikiProjects, I'd personally be inclined to go for that. -Ljleppan (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Proposal 2: Clearer definition of C-class

The more detailed criteria section presently defines C-class as it fails one or more of the criteria for B-Class. As defined now, the distinction between C-class and Start-class articles is somewhat vague.

I propose the C-class definition be written as fails one of the B-class criteria, removing the or more aspect and clarifying the distinction between C-class and Start-class. This would broadly follow the definitions used in Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment#Criteria and Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany/Assessment#Criteria. -Ljleppan (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Proposal 3: Refresh assessment example articles, and link to specific versions

Currently, the example articles for the various assessments are linked without reference to specific versions of the articles. This is problematic if the article is improved significantly after it is chosen as an example.

In addition, the examples should be refreshed to show a relatively minimal level required. For example, the current B-class example of Helsinki is massive, at some 27 pages long if printed. Clearly this level of depth is not required for B-class in general.

As such, I propose that the example articles be both refreshed to reflect a "this is sufficient for this class" -level, and tied to specific article versions. -Ljleppan (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

I don't think there's a need for a formal RFC or anything like that, but I'd very much prefer to hear your thoughts on this matter. -Ljleppan (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Reassessment of Espoo?

I have done extensive work in expanding the article Espoo. It is now over 130 kilobytes long and has 130 references. I would like to request a reassessment of the article, if it could be promoted from C class to at least B class. JIP | Talk 01:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@JIP: Nice work and a massive improvement, especially in terms of referencing. There's still a bunch of paragraphs with no citations at all, so I don't think it's quite there yet w/r/t B-class criteria#1. Another thing that is not really a problem at B-class level, but worth considering if you intend to take this to GA: you'll probably want to consider being somewhat more aggressive with the summary style. The readable prose is currently at over 77kb (according to DYK Check) which is getting to a point where it's worth considering whether some ancellary aspects should be spun off to their won articles (See WP:SIZERULE for some rules of thumb). Ljleppan (talk) 06:23, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Category:People from Vyborg

I've been working on the categorisation of European people by city and I've come to Vyborg - about which I knew nothing, but I now understand that although it is now in Russia it was formerly in Finland, and so many of the biographies are quite properly described as Finnish. Although the articles rarely say so I assume most of these people moved into what is now Finland.

The normal way we deal with categories by city is for example by making Category:Writers from Vyborg a subcategory of Category:Russian writers by city. I've tried to deal with this by also making it a subcategory of Category:Finnish writers, but this doesnt seem very satisfactory. I'd like to know what people think of setting up separate categories for people from Viipuri, in the same way as we have dealt with Category:People from Kaliningrad and Category:People from Königsberg. I imagine there wasnt much continuity of population. Rathfelder Rathfelder (talk) 20:39, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Rathfelder: I think we already exchanged views on this topic earlier on either your talk page or mine, and IIRC it was about Viipuri specifically. :)

To start with your last point, virtually the entire population of the ceded or otherwise lost parts of Finland (mainly the Karelian Isthmus, the areas north of Lake Ladoga, and up north Salla and Petsamo) were evacuated into present-day Finland. I read somewhere that c. 400,000 were evacuated and less than 20 stayed behind; I don't know how reliable that (latter) figure is, but it is probably of the right order of magnitude.

Among those evacuees were members of one side of my family, and I can tell you that if they are anything to go by, they would be absolutely mortified to be described as anything other than Finnish (let alone Russian!), just because the part of Finland they originally come from may no longer be within the Finnish borders. For the same reason, they would probably expect to be categorised as 'people from Viipuri' etc., because that's what they were and are — people born and raised in Karelia, often with roots there going back centuries. So both 'Writers (or whatever) from Vyborg' and 'Finnish writers'. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:37, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Finnish houses in Poland

Pl wiki has an article that doesn't have English or Finnish equivalent, called "Finnish houses", about a type of Finnish-inspired housing in Poland. See pl:Domki fińskie (yes, it's in Polish, but Polish-to-English MT is very good these days and one click in Chrome, so...). Anyway, I wonder if there is a fi wiki article this can be connected to, or maybe someone here will be inspired to translate this to English and/or Finnish? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:16, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)