Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision

"Other countries"[edit]

I find it kind of confusing as to why broadcasts that are directly linked to the contest, aswell as the album, stand below the section about countries that had nothing to do with the contest in any given year. I think the other countries section should be moved all the way down, below the album, as the least relevant info of any given year. it's certainly less relevant than countries that actually broadcast the event ImStevan (talk) 20:53, 29 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree with you that the current placing of this section is a little odd. I actually believe there is a slight WP:UNDUE issue with how this section is presently as well, as I think too much emphasis is given to countries that didn't take part. We have done our best to neuter this section in the past, but I think we can go further. I also believe, given the creation of the new "Participating countries" section that if we are to include an "Other countries" section, it should be as part of this. I've done some changes to the 2023 contest article (see here) which moved the other countries to within the participants, and moves everything to prose, rather than the current bullet list format. In this way the high level points around why a country does not participate are covered, but we don't give undue weight to non-participants by giving it a completely separate section. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 08:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I like it ImStevan (talk) 12:47, 30 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I like this change a lot. Having this information as prose instead of a bulleted list really aids in making the article feel more encyclopedia-like. Wikipedia isn't really supposed to be a quick-reference guide and I think we fall into that trap sometimes. I did move the "Eligibility..." paragraph up since it actually does a great job at introducing participation in general. I'd suggest giving this change at least a month before rolling it out to other articles. That way people still have time to raise any concerns. Grk1011 (talk) 15:25, 30 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I like it too. I moved the section at Eurovision Song Contest 2024 but for the moment I left the bulleted list since in this case we are still talking about potential participants. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 15:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree that for now we should keep the bullet list given the information presented at present is more complex. Once the official participants list is published we can then move to a prose-only format when there are fewer countries and can remove any duplicated overlap in terms of reasoning behind non-participation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 17:10, 30 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have officially moved and reduced the section in all the articles where it was present. I also added the {{further}} note linking to List of countries in the Eurovision Song Contest where it was missing. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 11:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Taskforce[edit]

Has the topic of creating taskforces come up yet? Ktkvtsh (talk) 07:08, 28 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We have talked in the past about the wikiproject being something different, like WikiProject EBU or WikiProject Song Contests with a Eurovision task force for example. None of them really gained traction since any option ended up both expanding and reducing the scope of the project and removing some overlap that most editors like. The reality is that there are really only 5 or so 'everyday' editors so we've just been having discussions on the talk page as necessary. Did you have a task force scope in mind? What type of articles do you enjoy editing/improving? Grk1011 (talk) 12:43, 28 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mostly, I like working with citations/sources and photos.I also enjoy the design aspect. I love to write as well news. Ktkvtsh (talk) 21:49, 28 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah those brief discussions we had didn't exactly go anywhere, but I do think a rethink about the overall scope/name of the project is needed. Especially since the project's remit has now expanded to include other song contests not actually run by the EBU, I'm not sure "WikiProject Eurovision" is really a suitable title for this WikiProject anymore. Additionally, given the large majority of editors are focussed solely on the song contest aspects of this project's remit, I have grown a bit confused by the inclusion of broadcasters and networks within the Eurovision network as part of this project's scope. Of course the participating broadcasters are an important aspect of the EBU contests (as well as the ABU contests and American Song Contest), but looking at Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision/Popular pages some of the broadcaster articles which get a lot of views (which are tagged with our banner because of their links to the EBU) I don't believe are actually relevant to this project. I'm conscious I don't want to be creating a lot of work for anyone, but conversations about our remit and what we want to achieve as a group are overdue. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Couldn't agree more. I'd also like to include that the design of the project has become outdated. We are in need of a complete revamp.

Is there a way for the editors who are consistently working here to get together in a talk page somewhere and figure out something definitive? I will work on a list of changes we could go ahead and do right away while we work on a big picture change.

I think the most obvious path is to become the WikiProject Song Contests and be the hub for all song contests. That way every contest around the globe will have uniform Wikipedia pages and most likely we will have a larger group of active members. Then we could do task forces for the major contests that have editions in different countries (like the Voice and Idol) and so on.

The collection of templates and user skills here could be used to benefit a huge chunk of Wikipedia. Ktkvtsh (talk) 09:57, 1 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Maybe it would make sense to split the project into a project Eurovision and a separate project (Other) Song Contests. I myself contribute largely only to ESC-related articles and don't care much about other song or dance contests, and I still feel it would be helpful to have a project with only Eurovision as its scope. But I'm open for interesting suggestions. EurovisionLibrarian (talk) 18:37, 1 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I believe this is where task forces would make a lot of sense. In this regard there would be a wider group which covers all song contests, but individual editors which are only interested in certain contests can then align themselves with specific task forces. That way there can be a centralised guidance available on formatting, sourcing etc. but also allowing individual task force members to work on the articles that appeal to them. If we were to split the projects we would then run the risk I believe of too much divergence occuring between the different contests in terms of their content. Templates as well are a shared resource for all contests, so again another reason to continue to have a single project with the addition of task forces. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:20, 2 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Newsletter[edit]

Could someone help me with copy editing the newsletter and sending it out? Ktkvtsh (talk) 14:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can help out here. If you could link me to the newsletter that would be great. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:12, 7 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here is where I've been working It is stored in the archive tab. Ktkvtsh (talk) 10:11, 7 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How do I send it out to the mailing list? Ktkvtsh (talk) 23:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Taking a look at Template:Mailing list member you will need to become a mass message sender. It may make sense for a few very active WikiProject members to request massmessage user rights. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:03, 14 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good idea. I sent a request but got no response. Could you post a new request? Ktkvtsh (talk) 09:23, 14 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Newsletter Issue 49: Haven't been able to send this out. So will post here for everyone.[edit]

→ Issue 49 ← Headlines Loreen won the 2023 Eurovision Song Contest in Liverpool. Eurovision Choir canceled indefinitely. Junior Eurovision 2023 to be in Nice, France.
At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows
Number of articles	Unassessed articles	Good articles	A-class articles	Featured articles	Number of members
7263	0	171	0	4	105
• HOME • TALK • NEWSDESK • UNSUBSCRIBE • ARCHIVES • • Published by the Eurovision WikiProject •

Ktkvtsh (talk) 08:14, 20 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's good to see you have been able to send this out to all WikiProject members now! Just an FYI, A-class has now been made redundant for WikiProject Eurovision articles (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Archive 26#A-class assessments), so for future editions the template should be modified to remove this. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 07:45, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes very glad. Okay good to know. Thank you! Ktkvtsh (talk) 07:47, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Discussion on ProveIt automated edits[edit]

I would like everyones input on the use of ProveIt automated edits to normalize refereneces. Recently I have been working on normalizing all WP ESC articles to help them to be uniform. @IceWelder disagrees, saying "Not all Eurovision-related articles are edited by the same people. If they have established formats, there is no need (or even incentive) to change them." You can see our original discussion here Ktkvtsh (talk) 23:12, 21 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Public domain images of the 1964 Eurovision Song Contest[edit]

Last year I stumbled upon these images from 1964. [1]

I believe these are public domain images, as they were made in Denmark before 1970. I don't have the time or tools to upload them to Wikimedia Commons. Any volunteers? Clausule (talk) 08:23, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I will look through them and confirm they are CC0 and upload them! Thanks! Ktkvtsh (talk) 08:31, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sadly right away, after translating the page, at the bottom is this disclaimer "The images may under no circumstances be used in commercial contexts, e.g. in connection with advertising supplements or in connection with the direct sale of goods. The images must also not be used to propagate certain attitudes or views. DR has all copyrights to the images. If you need to use an image from DR in a commercial context, it will in some cases be possible to use the image for a fee. Contact DR Arkivsalg via their site at www.dr.dk/Arkivsalg Private individuals may share the images on Facebook via the sharing button on the site (embedded). It is not permitted to upload them to Facebook and other social media from your own hard drive." They are not public domain. Ktkvtsh (talk) 08:33, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sorry, I missed the Danish disclaimer and assumed they would be considered:

Probably these works are "photographic works of art" in the eyes of DR, although I have my doubts about that. I would guess these are journalistic images that depict an event and (most of) the photo's seem not to be staged by the photographer. But of course Wikimedia shouldn't take any risk. Clausule (talk) 11:22, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Serbia heart[edit]

I wanna discuss File:EuroServia.svg from Commons, it looks...wrong? It is from the official site but it seems to have gaps in between the stripes and the heart, the coat of arms looks...washed out? And when it's smaller (which is the intended use), it looks even worse (example). Should we revert it back to the previous version? ImStevan (talk) 11:46, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes I think we should revert it. While it is a small issue, I did notice it as soon as the page loaded. Ktkvtsh (talk) 21:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've made some small changes. The gaps are still there, but they should be less noticeable now (I'm not redrawing the whole thing). Andreyyshore 🆃︎ 🅲︎ 00:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dates in Template:Infobox song contest national year[edit]

I don’t know if this has ever been discussed before, but at the moment “[country] in the Eurovision Song Contest [year]” articles with multiple-episode national finals generally have all the dates listed under the “selection date(s)” header, heats and semi-finals included. Wouldn’t it make more sense to only list the final date in the infobox (separating only the artist’s and song’s selection dates when they do not coicide) and leave the rest for the article body to specify? ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've always understood this to be the date that the song and/or entrant were selected (plural since sometimes songs and artists are selected on different dates), not every date that the field of potential candidates was whittled down. I do not do that in practice though given the current convention. I'd be willing to entertain better defining what the field is for. Grk1011 (talk) 13:22, 20 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]