Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball

Requested move at Talk:NCAA Basketball Championship (Philippines)#Requested move 19 March 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:NCAA Basketball Championship (Philippines)#Requested move 19 March 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 15:34, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

Quality assessments are used by Wikipedia editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project decides to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:20, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Red Auerbach

Red Auerbach has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:20, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Serbia women's national basketball team

I'm not interested in editwarring with anons, but there's one logged out user (probably User:Adelbeighou, who probably was another user blocked years ago, User:Gagibgd?) who's adding Yugoslavian achievements with the opinion that Serbia is the inheritor of Yugoslavia. It is not right in any possible way. It seems to some Serbian editors it's: Step1 - add or combine SCG (Serbia and Montenegro) results and achievents to reflect their Serbian; Step2 - do the same with Yugoslavia. Do this to as many articles as possible and repeat tirelessly no matter if they are always reverted. Pelmeen10 (talk) 22:44, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Help with college stats table

Ray Hall (basketball) will hit the main page (DYK section) in about 10 hours without a college stats table and Matt Hicks (basketball) will follow a day later. At Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball#College stat tables needed for upcoming DYKs, I asked for help with college stats tables. Feel free to help out.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

A couple of requested moves

Just so y'all know, I requested Karaliaus Mindaugo taurė to be moved to King Mindaugas Cup and Karaliaus Mindaugo taurė MVP to be moved to King Mindaugas Cup MVP per WP:ENGLISHNAME. Thought y'all might be interested in it as both of these articles are covered under Wikiproject Basketball. -- Shadow of the Starlit Sky 23:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Dean Smith move discussion

There is a move discussion underway to move Dean Smith to Dean Smith (basketball) and leave the original as a disambiguation page. Please participate in the discussion if you have an opinion on this. Rikster2 (talk) 23:05, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Division I seasons

See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball#Division_I_season_articles. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:27, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

The 'Basketball in China' page 90% about the NBA in China.

Either it should be renamed, or information about basketball in China (besides the NBA) integrated. 2A00:23C7:BB01:5601:512E:3F9:D183:2F35 (talk) 21:21, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Overtime Elite in infobox

What do others think about Overtime Elite teams going in the infobox? JTtheOG did so at Alexandre Sarr [1]. The league is called "professional", but is it really on the level of regular leagues around the world? Are their teams really that notable? It is that the league is notable but the teams are just in-house and it's more like an institute or academy? DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

As it is only for 16-20 years old, isn't this basically an Under-20 league? Alvaldi (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The majority of Overtime Elite page was written by one of its employees and it reads like an advertisement. So no, they can write whatever they want but it does not look like a professional league. – sbaio 15:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

DaHuzyBru, Sbaio, Alvaldi. Hey, everyone. I was simply following what has already been live for months on infoboxes at pages such as Dominick Barlow, Ausar Thompson, Amen Thompson, Robert Dillingham and Jean Montero. To me, it seems natural to put the team names they actually play for, in spite of how silly they might look in the infobox. As for Overtime Elite, the league seems to be paying a minimum salary of $100,000 plus signing bonus and benefits. Throw in the genuinely world-class staff and facilities, and it's hard to argue that it's not a pro league. Let me know what you guys think here. Best, JTtheOG (talk) 17:09, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

For me the question is not whether it is professional or not, rather is this a senior team league or an Under-20 youth league? If this is a youth league, then it probably shouldn't be listed in the infobox. Alvaldi (talk) 19:20, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

But then why is there an exception for high school and colleges? And it seems we list pro teams that Europeans play in as teenagers. —Bagumba (talk) 00:50, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

The Overtime Elite teams are not publicly known or reported on. I had to dig through web archive to find a source (primary source) to support Alexandre Sarr's 2021–22 team. Sarr's Overtime Elite profile bio doesn't even mention the team names. Both sources I added were team profile pages where the team lists were noted. Apart from that, it doesn't appear the organisation even cares that much let alone independent sources. DaHuzyBru (talk) 03:41, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

If the team names are insignificant, what if we just show the stint as "Overtime Elite"? I was thinking the same applied to the Junior Basketball Association, but there was so much LaVar Ball hype before, that it probably actually got some coverage. —Bagumba (talk) 09:06, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Bagumba Although High schools and colleges are listed in the infobox, they are listed separately from the players senior team careers. The HS/C listing is of course the classical American way of junior basketball while the classic European way (and in various other places) is playing junior basketball with clubs (i.e. not schools) which is not mentioned in the infobox. Now we have this new way, which is a professional Under-20 league (or Under-21 in JBA's case). Maybe it is time to rethink how we display these Under-20/21 stints in the infobox. Football displays players youth teams in the infobox, see Cristiano Ronaldo, maybe thats the way to go for stints outside of HS/C? Alvaldi (talk) 09:41, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree that Overtime Elite is likely be a new model. It is professional, if it's in fact paying $100,000. It is a youth league, if it doesn't include 20+ players like say the G League. But we have high school and college ibx fields for youths, because they have historically been significant in U.S. (and Canada?) coverage. I have limited knowledge about Overtime Elite and the European model, so I'm more brainstorming or playing devil's advocate at this point, without a firm opinion. —Bagumba (talk) 10:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

It was years ago and nobody probably had something like Overtime Elite in mind, but there were the following discussions in 2011:

• Template talk:Infobox basketball biography/Archive 2 § Minor league teams should be listed Unanimous support to list minor league teams, though people might have only been narrowly thinking of the NBA-sponsored development league at the time.
• Template talk:Infobox basketball biography/Archive 2 § European teams and other overseas teams should be listed Unanimous support to list, but no direct mention of youth leagues.

—Bagumba (talk) 10:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

So there was no consensus here. I don't mind the idea of showing the stint as "2021–2023 Overtime Elite" rather than the individual teams as I don't see how this info can be sourced in the future due to how obscure the team names are and the fact they aren't recorded anywhere. Usbasket doesn't cover Overtime Elite games. Can we come to an agreement on that? I'm not set on that, so still happy for more ideas. DaHuzyBru (talk) 09:04, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

As it stands, it is a Under-20 league so the consensusis, as I understand it, that it shouldn't be listed with the senior teams (i.e. adult teams). I suggest having it similar to the college section (May call it "Youth League: Overtime Elite (2021–2023)" or as a separate youth team section similar to football/soccer. Alvaldi (talk) 09:28, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Consensus means majority of people agree, which is not the case here. If others agree that there needs to be a new section or field in the infobox, they need to state that here. DaHuzyBru (talk) 09:53, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

The documention at Template:Infobox basketball biography is probably American-centric. It doesn't really specify what goes in the "Career section", but anything professional basically went there. For non-US leagues, is there any documented convention, or it's just been a de facto practice to keep out junior teams? Like if I look at Abramo Canka, should all those teams be there?—Bagumba (talk) 10:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Abramo Canka: under age youth teams no, pre-college pro/semi-pro teams yes. He played pro for the first time in 2019–20. DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:21, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

All the teams in Canka's infobox are professional. However, it depends by country how many leagues are professional. Things are different in Europe and other parts of the world than in the United States/Canada. – sbaio 12:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Do players get paid in youth leagues in Europe? Or only in semi-pro?—Bagumba (talk) 12:39, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Serie A2 and Serie B Basket are not youth leagues. You would be amazed how many leagues one country can have in Europe (at least) and how many departments one team can have (same sport or even other sports like FC Barcelona). But speaking of youth leagues – players are not paid (at least in Europe). – sbaio 12:44, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Reason for players, coaches, and seasons lists containing relocated teams

Hi there, this is just a curious question from someone trying to gain rationale over on ice hockey. Why do the season-by-season records, coaches, and players of NBA teams such as the Los Angeles Lakers, Oklahoma City Thunder, and Memphis Grizzlies include their relocated counterparts? Such as the Los Angeles Lakers including Minnesota Lakers players and coaches and their records. Why not split the articles? Conyo14 (talk) 07:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Presumably, reliable sources group them together as they are part of the same franchise. What's the argument to split them?—Bagumba (talk) 08:53, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

No argument, just curious. Conyo14 (talk) 15:28, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Draft info in bio infobox

FYI

There's a discussion at Template talk:Infobox basketball biography § Template-protected edit request on 30 May 2023 about standardizing a player's draft info in the infobox.—Bagumba (talk) 10:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)