Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Sportspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Sportspeople[edit]

Audrey Coulter[edit]

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 05:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Weak Keep. The lead is misleading as she appears to have 'not' been a part of the Rio Olympics, actually... but there is still extensive coverage about her competition results, along with an entire CNN segment about her. (CNN: [1]) The sources in the article are generally sufficient and pass WP:RS, but I can pull out more if needed on request. Nomader (talk) 06:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nomader What would you say were the WP:THREE best sources covering Coulter? Alvaldi (talk) 09:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Alvaldi: I wrote out a detailed thing for all three and I somehow didn't save it and lost the draft. Very frustrating. I also changed to Weak Keep which feels more accurate for where I'm at with this one. A more simplified version is below (also I changed to Weak Keep after diving for more sources -- I think that this article will never go past being a stub and she is barely notable enough to satisfy WP:GNG and the recommended requirements listed at WP:NEQUESTRIAN per her wins at the Adequan Grand Prix and the Longines FEI World Cup Jumping Sacramento competition in 2016):
The CNN segment that I linked to above.

The Palm Beach Post article about her win in the Adequan Grand Prix, an FEI World Cup competition.

A feature in Riding Magazine about her (although, I haven't been able to find any editorial explanation and I question its legitimacy, and if it doesn't qualify, I would say this article at The Gaitpost which does appear to have an actual editorial team and experts on horse riding writing the articles).
Nomader (talk) 15:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete Participating in the Rio olympics does not satisfy WP:SPORTSPERSON which states "sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has won a significant honor" (emphasis added). Daughter of notable person isn't reason enough as per WP:INVALIDBIO MetricMaster (talk) 08:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@MetricMaster: Agree with you on the point about participating in the Olympics, but it's worth further noting that she didn't actually make the team and the article is incorrect here. Nomader (talk) 15:22, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Lars Petrus[edit]

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Only primary sources. Search results only show similar primary or self-published sites or blogs, and mostly so in relation with the Petrus method, which should be described at Speedcubing#Solving methods instead. Article fails WP:ANYBIO, redirecting to the suggested (partial) merge location after the merge might be in order. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 20:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Sweden. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment. A quick look in a Swedish newspaper archive (Mediearkivet) indicates a fair amount of non-trivial coverage. I'll try to update the article in a few days, when I have time. /Julle (talk) 02:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment - Seems like it could be viable, but there's no sources at the moment and it's hard to make the case for it without those sources.KatoKungLee (talk) 16:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll make an attempt to address this over the weekend. /Julle (talk) 00:19, 24 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Minh Thai[edit]

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Fails WP:ANYBIO. References, where not primary, are just passing mentions or describing primarily the 1982 World Rubik's Cube Championship. (If deemed necessary, some content can probably be incorporated there.) Web search does not help here either, and apart from the described kinds of sources returns irrelevant results, such as this Britannica biography on a revolutionary. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 20:18, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Keep, Gnewspapers has several mentions of him. Most are an AP article from 1982 [2], this in French [3] from Canada. This from a magazine [4]. Oaktree b (talk) 00:53, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Steve Kuclo[edit]

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Limited sources. Reads like a resume. Tagged for notability issues since 2011. Fails WP:GNG, WP:BIO and WP:ATHLETE. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 18:15, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Frank E. Weiss[edit]

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Non-notable college basketball player and Army officer. Subject of WP:ROUTINE coverage in high school and almost nothing afterwards. Fails WP:GNG, WP:NBASKETBALL, and WP:BIO. Hirolovesswords (talk) 17:18, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete fails WP:GNG, also page created by a User who made minimal contributions and appears to be related to the subject. Mztourist (talk) 03:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete no evidence of notability as a military figure. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:06, 24 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Helen Willetts[edit]

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Lack of notability Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 14:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Delete Some limited coverage [5], other stuff about her pregnancy and the like. Nothing substantial, just a working weatherperson. Oaktree b (talk) 15:58, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Radio, Television, Badminton, England, and Wales. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep Award winning weather presenter. Plenty of coverage: Why it's raining success for Helen in North Wales Weekly News - Thursday 18 May 1995; PLAYING THE EMPLOYMENT GAME in South Wales Echo - Monday 25 September 1995; I'm JUST HELEN in Wales on Sunday - Sunday 05 January 1997; BBC profiles: https://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/gogleddorllewin/enwogion/adloniant/pages/helenwilletts.shtml and https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/about/19111979 Piecesofuk (talk) 14:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep per Piecesofuk. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Samuele Conti[edit]

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Not sure Conti meets WP:BIO. The subject clearly does not pass WP:NCYC; and a search for sources on Google at least did not turn up any significant coverage for Conti; mostly passing mentions in the context of drug suspensions, and a couple of articles briefly discussing Conti's suspension, which is run-of-the-mill coverage which does not go into much depth about him. There's of course the caveat that offline sources may exist, which I may be unable to access; but given that Conti's achievements do not seem to be particularly noteworthy, I'm not convinced any offline sourcing will be sufficient to get the subject over the WP:BASIC bar. Java Hurricane 07:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - I'm only seeing one SIGCOV source which covers his drug-related suspension; this really isn't enough to meet GNG or write a fleshed-out article. –dlthewave ☎ 20:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ahamada Haoulata[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:NOLYMPICS and WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Africa. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not a notable athlete, seems to have done poorly (7th place I'm assuming is bad, I'm not great at sports), also seems to have been copied from here, not sure if content is copyrighted. ~With regards, I followed The Username Policy (Message Me) (What I have done on Wikipedia) 03:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Delete - No SIGCOV in the article, and I'm not finding anything in my searches. –dlthewave ☎ 20:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Comment. Beyond what's in the article, there's a one-line statement in the New York Times that her event time set a national record: [6]. I'm still skeptical that that's enough to count as significant coverage, but at least it's a newspaper and not just a database. As for the nomination statement: 7th would be pretty good, actually (although not good enough to be automatically notable) but her actual place was only 7th in her heat, much worse. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Redirect to Comoros at the 1996 Summer Olympics per WP:ATD. Ingratis (talk) 07:18, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Denika Kassim[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:NOLYMPICS and WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Africa. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep I was able to find coverage in French-language sources, particularly Comorean news sites: [7] [8] [9] [10]. While I can't speak to the quality of specific news outlets in the Comoros, it looks to me like she's notable in her home country. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 04:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Keep - Sources provided by TheCatalyst31 demonstrate significant coverage to meet GNG. –dlthewave ☎ 20:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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weak Keep due to SIGCOV as demonstrated by TheCatalyst31. --hroest 23:31, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fadane Hamadi[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:NOLYMPICS and WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - Not finding anything more than stats and passing mentions in my searches. –dlthewave ☎ 20:36, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Redirect to Comoros at the 2020 Summer Olympics per WP:ATD. Ingratis (talk) 07:20, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Glenn Ong Jing Jie[edit]

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Neither of the two sources that are currently in the article demonstrate WP:SPORTBASIC or WP:GNG since one is a database page and the other is written by his employer, Lion City Sailors FC, so is not independent of Ong. Searches, including a Singaporean one, yielded nothing better than Straits Times, which is a few match report mentions, and Vavel, a squad list mention. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Fails GNG due to lack of SIGCOV sources. –dlthewave ☎ 20:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ali Jan Faizi[edit]

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Due to a complete lack of coverage outside of databases, this clearly fails WP:SPORTBASIC#5 and WP:GNG, despite playing 46 minutes of a single international game 20 years ago then disappearing without further coverage, it would seem. Even searching in Persian (علی جان فیض) yields nothing decent. I oppose redirecting as he is not mentioned in any other article nor is there any article where he should be mentioned. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:44, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete Lack of notability. Nocturnal781 (talk) 23:39, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete per nom. –dlthewave ☎ 20:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Joshua Calderón[edit]

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 03:44, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:05, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep per sources below which show notability. Giant Snowman 21:54, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep - @GiantSnowman:, @Joeykai:, I found [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], among many more sources. Young player with ongoing international career (8+ appearances for Puerto Rico) and career abroad. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep per sources above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:07, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - Of the sources that have been brought forward, I would say that these [16][17][18] are sufficient to meet GNG. –dlthewave ☎ 00:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - I agree that there's enough coverage to not require deleting this one Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rohit Thakur (soccer)[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Current sources are trivial. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:00, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - was created when NFOOTY was a thing (and had seemed like would be beginning a promising career, which appears to have stalled). I wouldn't have made it now since NFOOTY has been revoked and little to no press coverage beyond trivial. RedPatch (talk) 22:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Zacari Hughes[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 00:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment I am unsure whether to keep or not. Decent prose from a single source at de:Zac Hughes, I wonder if it can be expanded on from newspaper archive. In the meantime I am going with redirect to List of Rochdale A.F.C. players (1–24 appearances) (GiantSnowman) missed a trick?) Govvy (talk) 22:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete: Fails GNG. Insufficient sources for wiki article. // GMH Melbourne (talk) 23:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Current sources aren't even close to meeting GNG. Will reconsider if significant coverage is found. –dlthewave ☎ 00:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Paul Harries[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 00:50, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Keep per sources already on article which show notability. Giant Snowman 20:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep per sources in the article.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:08, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep? I go with it, but it's hard to determine the sources on offer in the article, there maybe better sources from the newspaper archive. Prose can certainly be expanded upon if the infobox is anything to go by. I certainly can see the concern where this nomination is coming from. Govvy (talk) 22:39, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep: Meets GNG (see 4th reference) // GMH Melbourne (talk) 23:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Sources are mostly routine announcements, although I'm not able to access the offline ones. Hack, could you describe the type of coverage that's in the offline sources that you added? –dlthewave ☎ 00:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep passes GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 06:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - Per above. Made 27+ fully pro appearances in English Football League and played in Australia top flight. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 19:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Akpo Godwin[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 00:42, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC. Uhai (talk) 09:43, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:03, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Only one source [19] even comes close to SIGCOV; this isn't sufficient to establish notability. –dlthewave ☎ 00:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Celestine Onyeka Obi[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 00:39, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:03, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Sourcing is just brief, routine announcements. –dlthewave ☎ 00:21, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Macey Kilty[edit]

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Non-notable athlete, no coverage outside of school websites or wrestling websites related to Team USA (where she's only mentioned by name). Oaktree b (talk) 15:52, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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https://uww.org/athletes/kilty-macey-ellen

Macey has earned medals in the highest level of competitive freestyle wrestling. Many of the pages that link there have other athletes from the same tournaments. There are plenty of articles discussing her career. Mattjrocha (talk) 16:04, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

there is also articles in other wiki languages for them: https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macey_Kilty Mattjrocha (talk) 16:11, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

https://www.scraplife.com/pages/macey-kilty#:~:text=Macey%20Kilty%20from%20Stratford%2C%20WI,Bronze%20medalist%20that%20same%20year.

She is also sponsored by scraplife a pretty notable company within wrestling. Mattjrocha (talk) 16:14, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep. Sources exist [20] and [21] among others. Not to mention she is a medalist at the World Cup. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:40, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Keep. Lots of GNews headlines featuring her name. Certainly far more than "school websites or wrestling websites". pburka (talk) 20:46, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep. Not sure where you are getting that she has "no coverage outside of school websites or wrestling websites related to Team USA". A quick search on Google News reveals many different articles from different news organizations with her name in the headlines([22][23][24]). Also won 2018 Cadet World Champion. Appears to pass WP:ATHLETE. Wikipedialuva (talk) 23:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - I would say that the sources provided are just enough to establish GNG. –dlthewave ☎ 00:24, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - I would say there enough sources to establish GNG for this page. Historyday01 (talk) 00:29, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Snow Keep Notability established.LM2000 (talk) 08:20, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lars Kindgen[edit]

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Does not appear to meet WP:NSPORT or WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Of the five references included, 3 of them are sports database entries. Another is an interview, which as a primary source does not go towards notability. And the fifth, while in-depth, is from a source, erft-kurier, which I am not sure qualifies as a reliable source as it seems to be an advertising platform. Was draftified in hopes of improvment, but was returned to mainspace without improvement. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 10:32, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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@onel5969 - Please see the updated sources. Thanks.KatoKungLee (talk) 14:19, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Keep per Robby.is.on and KatoKungLee updates and citation population that has been added to the article since it was raised to AfD. To me there is enough to warrant a GNG pass. Regards. Govvy (talk) 10:39, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. What sources are significant? If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:03, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep per sources below which show notability. Giant Snowman 21:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep - Per Govvy, Robby.is.on, and KatoKungLee. @GiantSnowman:, I found [25], [26], [27], [28], [29], and [30], among many more German sources. Definelty also has offline sources, having made 100+ appearances in fully pro German 2. Bundesliga in extensive 12+ year career during 1990s. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Not impressed by the level of coverage; these are mostly either passing mentions or interviews. –dlthewave ☎ 00:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
- Interviews are valid coverage.--Ortizesp (talk) 06:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  - Which policy/guideline supports your position? WP:SIGCOV requires secondary sources, and WP:NOR makes it clear that interviews are considered primary sources for Wikipedia's purposes. –dlthewave ☎ 12:40, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep, passes GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 06:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment - while interviews are valid coverage, as they are primary sources, they do not go towards WP:GNG.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 09:57, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Peter Haworth (Footballer)[edit]

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The article states "Nothing is known about Peter Haworth except he deputised for John Lindsay, the regular Accrington goalkeeper and kept a clean-sheet in a 0–0 draw played at Thorneyholme Road against West Bromwich Albion on 8 February 1890." This seems to be an admission that the subject fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Spicy (talk) 05:07, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete per nom. As the article itself acknowledges, after one match he "disappeared into the obscurity from whence he came." Clarityfiend (talk) 06:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This player played for a top-flight club. However, as that club went bankrupt 130 years ago there are no books on players from Accrington F.C. The only sources for the reserve players who covered an injury etc., are ENFA on-line and on-line newspaper articles through The British Newspaper Library. The only book is Michaal Joyce whose book covers every Football League player from 1888 - 1939. I can add Joyce as a reference if that would save the article. I have proved Peter Haworth played one top-flight football match through the two sources I mentioned. My final point is consistency. There are many articles of other one match top-flight players that have not been deleted even when Joyce was the only source. Ultimately, it is up to Wikipedia. If you want articles on every player who played top-flight football in England then you need to consider a more flexible stance on the number of sources on players of the pre World War 1 era. If not, then I respect your decision but would repeat my point of inconsistency and that it would be a shame that a players 90 minutes of fame or infamy is not recorded for posterity and Wikipedia is the ONLY way of doing that. I leave the decision in your capable hands. BHKendler161148 (talk) 07:20, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Wikipedia is not a database of every top-tier footballer ever, english or otherwise and articles of other players with the same lack of coverage as Haworth should also be deleted. A redirect to Accrington F.C. is also fine in my opinion. Alvaldi (talk) 19:30, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Delete - I don't even think it merits a redirect to the club article. Giant Snowman 19:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nicolas Zambrano[edit]

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Doesn't meet even the old WP:NFOOTY guidelines as never played professional. So even less notable under WP:SPORTCRIT and can't pass WP:GNG — NZFC^(talk)^(cont) 23:13, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:22, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Economia is the only even slightly decent source out of the ones used and it's not enough on its own. Searches yielded squad list mentions like NZ Herald and Stuff which do not help either. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rafael Olave[edit]

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Doesn't meet the old WP:NFOOTY guidelines as doesn't appear to have played in a professional league. Doesn't meet WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:GNG — NZFC^(talk)^(cont) 23:22, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:23, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Álvaro Villalón[edit]

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Doesn't meet the old WP:NFOOTY guidelines as doesn't appear to have played for any club when it may have been in the top professional league for that country. Doesn't meet WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:GNG — NZFC^(talk)^(cont) 23:39, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:23, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Martín Canales[edit]

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Doesn't meet the old WP:NFOOTY guidelines as doesn't appear to have played in a professional league. Doesn't meet WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:GNG — NZFC^(talk)^(cont) 23:26, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Note: removed American Football sort category as it does not apply to this subject. Frank Anchor 16:07, 20 March 2023 (UTC) Reply[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:23, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

António Lino de Sousa Horta Osório[edit]

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Doesn't meet notability. Son is notable, but this guy is a lawyer who won some regional table tennis tournaments. Nswix (talk) 22:03, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete: Fails GNG and BIO. N is not inherited, BLPs need clearly IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notabilty to avoid abuse. // Timothy :: talk 21:50, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nikita Dudo[edit]

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Played 32 mins of professional football but has spent the majority of his career as an amateur/semi-pro in the third tier of Belarusian football. After much searching in Russian and Belarusian, I have not found any clear evidence of WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC. I found Ostrovets and Football.by, both of which mention him once only. This Tribuna article used on the Belarusian Wikipedia article is just a brief loan announcement with no depth. FCO is not significant coverage and the source is not independent either, as he was employed by the club at the time. SPORTBASIC also says that team sites are generally not regarded as independent of the subject and winning an award based on a fan poll would never meet WP:ANYBIO. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete, lacks significant coverage. --Mvqr (talk) 11:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:22, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Panuwat Kongchan[edit]

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Semi-pro footballer playing in the third tier in Thailand who made 4 professional appearances half a decade ago. Google News has one hit; Goal, which mentions Kongchan just once. Further Thai searches did dig up more coverage, but nothing addressing Kongchan in detail. Super Sub Thailand is a trivial mention as a goalscorer. Thsport and Ballthai both have an article about him, however, both sources largely duplicate each other and also severely lack any independent analysis. Clear consensus exists at AfD that sources which consist of little more than just a quote from a player are not considered to be significant. Ballthai does mention his age (which differs from what this article has) but that isn't WP:SIGCOV either. Please note that WP:SPORTBASIC calls for sources to be intellectually independent of each other so, even if Thsport and Ballthai were considered to be significant in terms of coverage, they would only count as one source because of the duplication. An explanation can be found here.

If someone can find multiple WP:RS discussing Kongchan in detail that are independent from each other, I'll happily withdraw this. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:48, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete, lacks significant coverage. --Mvqr (talk) 11:42, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:22, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

List of Maccabiah Games medalists in karate[edit]

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Currently unreferenced list article full of non-notable names. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:47, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete, non notable list of names and non notable tournament. Ajf773 (talk) 09:06, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete Appears to be just a listing of karate medalists from some of the Maccabiah Games. There's nothing to support a claim of notability and no significant independent coverage. No evidence it's considered a major karate event in the martial arts world. Papaursa (talk) 03:19, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Constantinos Christou[edit]

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Christou has some coverage but I can't find any significant coverage that is completely independent of him so I'm not seeing a passing of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC. Alpha News is copied and pasted from an Omonia press release so obviously is not independent and Phile News mentions that he is the cousin of Constantinos Soteriou and Pieros Sotiriou but there's nothing else that we can build a biography from there. Sigma Live is basically just a quote from him so there's not enough independent content to call it WP:SIGCOV either. As SPORTBASIC says that Fan sites and blogs are generally not regarded as reliable sources we need to remember that sources like Omonoia 24 do not confer notability. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:44, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete Not reliable enough. Nocturnal781 (talk) 23:21, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Seiya Da Costa Lay[edit]

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Does not meet WP:GNG, since the deprecation of NFOOTY, it would need to have in-depth sourcing to show they pass GNG. Has been draftified and recreated in mainspace without enough improvement to meet WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:48, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Keep - I found [31], [32], [33], [34], [35], [36], [37], [38], [39], [40], and [41], among many many more Indonesian sources. Clearly significant figure in Indonesian football with ongoing career in fully pro Indonesian top flight and youth international career, both of which receive lots of media coverage. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:01, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 19:24, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Adílio Varela[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Previously kept at 2 AfDs due to being young, having an ongoing career and playing 23 minutes of professional football about 6 years ago. His ongoing career in what is now the 4th tier of Portuguese football certainly doesn't seem to be capturing any attention so any presumption of notability based on his ongoing career now seems invalid. The 'grace period' is well and truly over now. Furthermore, WP:NFOOTBALL (tied to the defunct WP:FPL) is now essentially WP:SPORTBASIC with WP:GNG.

I can find no new coverage since the first AfD. Best WP:RS coverage found are Sapo, Ojogo (translated) and Record. All of these discuss the same routine event - a loan - the articles themselves pre-date the first AfD, where nobody held the opinion that Varela met GNG but were happy to keep based on the SNG at the time. Unless Varela can be evidenced to pass SPORTBASIC, deletion is the only valid outcome. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:42, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just a further note, I have taken note of this source - Jovens Promessas. This is a Blogspot fan blog and their about us page confirms that it's not WP:RS. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:45, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete: Judging that WP:NFOOTY is now obsolete (for generally good reasons too), I think we can finally admit here that Varela was never really notable in the first place. I came into this discussion expecting to say that "notability doesn't expire" but he clearly never had it to begin with and survived at the whims of a technicality from old rules. Nomader (talk) 21:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete Failed WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage in 2020 and 2021, still does. Alvaldi (talk) 09:05, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Louardi Badjika[edit]

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WP:NFOOTY is no longer a valid SNG, so GNG must be met. It needs several refs from independent, reliable, secondary sources to pass WP:GNG. It currently has zero. Was moved to draft in hopes of improvement, but was moved back without any improvement, simply the adding of non-reliable blog source which was titled by the editor, "In-Depth article about Louardi Badjika". Onel5969 ^{TT me} 10:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Keep - I found [42] among more sources. Definelty has offline sources, having played 200+ games in fully pro French Ligue 1 and Ligue 2 in a career spanning 10+ years. Article needs improvement, not deleution. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:22, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment - the above source is a blog. Not a WP:RS.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 01:56, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I completely agree. It's an unacceptable source. See Skyrock (social network site) - stuff posted on there is no more an indication of notability than having coverage on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram etc. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Any unsubstantiated claims of that there WP:MUSTBESOURCES are just that, unsubstantiated claims. Alvaldi (talk) 09:09, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - The only online source I can find covering Badjika in detail is the blog noted above. Unfortunately, I can't determine whether the kurbos behind the blog is a journalist with an expertise in football (we can only see that it is a 52-year old from Ligny-en-Barrois). I suspect this person used some French-language media sources to write the post, but they didn't credit anything, so we're left with zero SIGCOV. Seeing that Badjika played most of his career in Ligue 2 during the 1980s, it's not a huge surprise I'm struggling to find anything. That said, it's possible there may be something if we had access to newspaper archives. Jogurney (talk) 22:42, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:20, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

György Balázs[edit]

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He fails WP:GNG (lack of significant coverage in multiple reliable sources) and WP:NTENNIS (didn't qualify for a main draw of ATP, hasn't won a Challenger). He participated in Davis Cup, but that was removed from the NTENNIS notability guideline. In my searches I haven't been able to find much beyond passing mentions or directories/databases. If anything, I got more results for other people with the same name! Jovanmilic97 (talk) 13:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Delete for failing GNG. All articles require some minimal GNG. He passes TennisProject Guidelines for suggested notability for having played in Davis Cup. This is often a pretty good indicator of notability, and non-English speaking players are under reported for this very reason. It's harder to find sources in Hungarian for this English Wikipedia version. Guidelines are meant to be flexible. In this case though, he did nothing else his entire career. He got into Davis Cup because there were no other players from Hungary with better rankings. He never played on the high-level ATP Tour. He tried a couple minor league tournaments but was crushed in every one of those. He stuck to the minor-minor leagues filled with high school and college youth, where he never won, and even making the final doesn't win you enough to cover your expenses. I can't find this player doing anything to warrant GNG other than losing to Andy Murray in a Davis Cup match. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:43, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep he met the WP:NTENNIS criteria, because he won one junior Grand Slam. Sczipo (talk) 08:15, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sczipo The guideline says "Significant coverage is likely to exist for junior players", which it's not. The significant coverage still doesn't exist and is needed per WP:NSPORT/FAQ Q1. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 11:19, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Where does it say in the article he won a junior Grand Slam tournament? I searched for what was there not something else. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:01, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fyunck(click) It was on the External links. But if you want, I make a "Junior career" section. Jovanmilic97 the guidline say "Significant coverage is likely to exist for junior players if they have won at least a junior Grand Slam title" ;) Sczipo (talk) 20:49, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, but that's not the part that's the problem, but the lack of significant coverage needed. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What I was saying is that it's tough to just search for a name. He's not Federer. If you search domestic and foreign newspapers and press for a name and an accomplishment, like winning a Grand Slam tournament, it might be easier to find some coverage or interviews. In reading the article I didn't even know he won a Grand Slam tournament to refine my searching. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mhadjou Youssouf[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:03, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Keep per WP:BIAS. Youssouf is one of the premier athletes from his non-western country. The effort by the nominator to remove what little information we have from Wikipedia is evidence of this project's systemic bias. We should keep this article and work harder to expand it. One option is to contact Comorian academics or students who would be able to search national sources not published digitally. KatoKungLee spoke well to this in a previous nomination.--User:Namiba 17:13, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete: Fails GNG, BIO, NSPORTS. Only source in article is not SIGCOV from an IS RS addressing the subject directly and indepth. BEFORE showed promo/primary/stats with nothing that meets SIGCOV. BLPs need clearly Ind RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notabilty to avoid abuse. // Timothy :: talk 20:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete: fails WP:NTRACK. There is no bias if the same criteria are applied to all sportspeople. If he indeed were "one of the premier athletes from his non-western country" one would expect at least a single newspaper article about him, but I could not find anything. --hroest 23:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Redirect to Comoros at the 2008 Summer Olympics per WP:ATD. Ingratis (talk) 07:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redirect to Comoros at the 2008 Summer Olympics. Not enough in-depth coverage to meet WP:GNG.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 00:27, 24 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There isn't quite consensus to salt the title, but I will not provide a draftspace copy (as I usually would be willing to do in WP:TOOSOON cases) unless and until the creator shows they are here to contribute to the encyclopedia. Vanamonde (Talk) 02:36, 24 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Danny Lauter[edit]

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Per WP:YOUNGATH, High School athletes generally are non-notable. None of the sources listed meet the requirement of "substantial and prolonged coverage that is: (1) independent of the subject; and (2) clearly goes beyond WP:ROUTINE coverage." I don't consider him a college athlete because, as the article says, he has not yet played any college games. Bensci54 (talk) 17:00, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, American football, Connecticut, and Washington, D.C.. Skynxnex (talk) 18:20, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete. There is some coverage, e.g. this and this, but considering he hasn't even played in college yet, I'd say its likely WP:TOOSOON. I'd be alright with draftification, as it seems he has good potential to be notable at some point in the future. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Draftification has already been attempted but the article was moved directly back to mainspace by the author. I do not have confidence that the same would not occur again. Bensci54 (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for showing interested in this article. I really appreciate your insight. I have conducted months of research on this student athlete and I feel that I have found enough information that demonstrates his credibility. I only have presented a high school photo in the article because I feel that it gets the point across that Danny is a up and coming athlete. Also, with the entire Name, Image, and Likeness culture that athletes are presented with today, I feel that this page creation is important. Throughout his athletic career, Danny has gone viral with millions of views granting him the right to be represented on this platform. Also, he was recruited by a lot of notable schools and I found that some of those schools included Colorado, UCLA, Northwestern, Vanderbilt and the list goes on. He is currently battling for the starting job and has a great change of changing the Hoyas program around. Also, Danny is continuing the tradition of playing Division One Football. Multiple members of his family have played at the highest level. Once again thank you for your help! WalterKlaus3 (talk) 19:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Delete While there is possibility of him becoming notable, it is way wp:toosoon. The sources only mention his protentional and seem quite promot-y. I would also like to mention that the images, last I checked, lacked a license from the school or Lauter. ✶Mitch 199811✶ 20:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete per nom and WP:YOUNGATH. In order for a player to merit a stand-alone article before he's even played the college game, he needs to be a top-tier recruit. Lauter was a mere three-star recruit (four- and five-stars are the elite recruits) and was not ranked among the top players either at quarterback or from his home state (see here). Cbl62 (talk) 00:29, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: User:WalterKlaus3 moved the article to draftspace following the nomination. Nonetheless, the AfD should proceed, and the result IMO should be to delete. Cbl62 (talk) 00:32, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What's the proper procedure here? It looks like from WP:AfD that moving a page that is being discussed is not forbidden, but Drafts also aren't valid targets for AfDs. Does that mean we need to take this to MfD? I am surprised that we don't have coverage for this sort of activity in our procedures somewhere. Bensci54 (talk) 17:11, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Common sense dictates that a user cannot avoid the outcome of an AfD (one that is already leaning "delete") by simply unilaterally moving their work to draft space. The AfD should run its course, and if the outcome is "delete", the outcome should apply to the draft. Cbl62 (talk) 14:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Further note. The creator/mover (User:WalterKlaus3) appears to be a WP:SPA whose only substantive edits are to this article and the article on Lauter's high school. Cbl62 (talk) 00:37, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
His user page suggests he is editing with a motive to help Lauter to obtain name, image and likeness funding: "I also support student athletes with the opportunity for support in the new NIL culture." Sorry, but that's not a valid reason for creating a Wikipedia article on an athlete who hasn't even played college ball. Cbl62 (talk) 00:40, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Re-draftify and temporarily salt mainspace title until 1 August 2023 (it is highly unlikely the subject would do anything to become notable before training camp at the earliest). Subject does not meet GNG or YOUNGATH as he is yet to play a down of college ball. Though very possible he could become notable down the road.Frank Anchor 15:11, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment I have this moved back to main space until this AFD is closed and reposted the AFD tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Pawan Singh (footballer)[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG due to lack of WP:SIGCOV. No significant coverage is in the article and I was unable to find any during a search. Most of the sources in the article and those I found during a search only mention his fight in a U-20 game a month ago. Alvaldi (talk) 20:43, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Oceania. Alvaldi (talk) 20:43, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:50, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:51, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:27, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, $Salvio giuliano$ 21:51, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

John Vehmeier[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL)

Not a notable person. The two references are a university press guide (unavailable) as the reference for statistics, and an obituary (which doesn't mention his one year of coaching an amateur football team -- the presumed claim of notability). Walt Yoder (talk) 19:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: American football, Illinois, and North Dakota. Walt Yoder (talk) 19:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:42, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It seems he was often referred to as just "Vehmeier" or "Coach Vehmeier," see [43] for example. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:46, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

~~An article on his wedding here – its a bit funny – he was married on December 12, 1912, 12 minutes and 12 seconds after 12, leading the Rev. O. Wilson to remark, "12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12."~~ (struck as about the wrong Vehmeier) BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:49, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is odd, I read here that "F. Vehmier left last evening on No.2 for Grand Forks, where he has accepted a position as [f]ootball coach on the ...versity team. Mr. Vehmier is [a]n old star of the Wisconsin team." BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:05, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some coverage of "Coach Vehmeier" from the Grand Forks Herald: [44] ("Coach Vehmeier, who has done such good work with the team this fall, left this noon on the Northern Pacific for his home in Illinois. Vehmeier came here after the season had started and took hold of what many people said was a hopeless task. Although the university squad was defeated in all but one of their games the state championship was won by that team, when the North Dakota agricultural team was beaten here last Wednesday. Vehmeier deserves much credit for the way he coached his men. There were twenty-two men in the picture taken this morning, including Coaches Vehmeier...") [45] (song about him, plus a few mentions of him in relation to his players, e.g. "the men were given a stiff workout, by Coach Vehmeier") [46] ("Coach Vehmeier Is Putting His Men Through Grilling Practices") [47] ("Coach Vehemeier Leaves with Fourteen Huskies Tuned For Action"). BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:19, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just was able to find out that the person who coached UND in 1912 was not John Vehmeier – rather, it was Fred! See here which gives some biographical details (could be argued as SIGCOV) and mentions that the real coach played at Beloit College and on the freshman team at the U. of Illinois. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A bit of coverage from The Daily Journal, The Post-Crescent, Wausau Daily Herald, and Chicago Tribune (seems he was somehow attending U. of Illinois and coaching U. of ND at the same time?). BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:34, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep (and move to Fred Vehmeier). Vehmeier is very borderline, in my opinion. I lean on the keep side, just slightly, with this being my reasoning: Vehmeier was the full-time head coach at a major school (North Dakota is Division I and has won national championships in the past – and he would meet NCOLLATH if he coached in more modern times – though oddly the criteria only applies post-1957?) and I am not sure we have ever deleted a D-I head football coach before, and in terms of coverage we have this: a bit of a detailed article here (Freeport Journal-Standard) which could be argued as SIGCOV for a topic of this age and significance, plus lesser detailed coverage from The Daily Journal, The Post-Crescent and others, in addition to many different mentions (and even a song) in the Grand Forks Herald, one of which ([48]) goes into some detail on his coaching and could be weakly argued as SIGCOV; for this kind of case, I'd be willing to say so – and even if not, I do believe we have enough coverage to write a decent biography of Vehmeier and satisfy WP:NBASIC, which states, "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability" (we have coverage from at least six newspapers, so it satisfies the "multiple independent" criteria). BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:00, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Another significant source that I was able to find: [49] (from the Grand Forks Herald). My "keep" !vote is a bit stronger now, since we now have likely sigcov from the Freeport Journal-Standard and the Forks Herald, which satisfies WP:GNG (which only requires "multiple" of such sources – and two is multiple). BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:54, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have improved the article to the point that it is now a very decent c-class biography. I've removed my "weak" statement from my !vote, and am now convinced that he is notable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

He was not a "D-I coach", UND wasn't even part of the NCAA at that time (and wouldn't be for 10 years) and it would be almost 100 years before they got D-I status.

The Freeport and Grand Forks sources are local coverage of the "announcements" variety, which NOTNEWS specifically says does not count towards notability. JoelleJay (talk) 00:19, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
He was not a "D-I coach" North Dakota is currently a Division I program – so I still think he has significance as their head coach. As for your NOTNEWS argument, it says For example, routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage (see WP:ROUTINE for more on this with regard to routine events) – so I do not believe that would apply here. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:25, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And I'd say suggesting that coverage of when Vehmeier was hired should not count towards notability, even when it has enough depth to pass SIGCOV, while citing "NOTNEWS" is ludicrous – I've never seen a suggestion like that before, let alone it being consensus. And locality of coverage is absolutely irrelevant. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Why would NOTNEWS not apply -- it's coverage of an announcement that he was joining the UND program. NOTNEWS applies to everything, not just events, which is why it specifically notes the additional guideline for events. The two announcements, which are just 5 days apart (failing SUSTAINED), also aren't SIGCOV. Freeport is quite explicitly repeating an announcement Word has been received here from Fargo, N.D., announcing that Fred Vehmeier, of Dakota, Ill., a former Beloit College and University of Illinois foot ball star, has been appointed to the position of head coach of the University of North Dakota foot ball team. Mr. Vehmeier, according to the information received here, takes charge of the team at once. Mr. Vehmeier is well known in this city. He attended Beloit College two years and was a star athlete of that school. He also starred last season with the University of Illinois freshman team. Mr. Vehmeier had been traveling for the past few months in the interests of a large Harvester company. His new position is a lucrative one and the many friends of the young man will be please to learn of his good fortune.

The Grand Forks one especially is written in a very primary, promotional, personal tone Vehmeier arrived in Grand Forks last night. One look at him and you will be convinced that he knows something about athletics. In build he is a regular bull moose, broad of shoulder, deep chested and husky limbed. Any candidate for the university football team who gets a bit sassy can count on a beating, if this new coach is the man he looks to be. ... He is watching the Grand Forks and Grafton high schools battle this afternoon. The athletic board of control of the university selected the new man at a special meeting held this noon.

Locality of coverage and compliance with NOTNEWS are absolutely relevant to gauging encyclopedic merit, as has been noted in numerous AfDs. It's only been a month since Larry Green was closed, where essentially the exact type of sourcing was roundly dismissed in the closing statement: The discussion ultimately boils down to an argument about whether or not there is sufficient significant coverage in reliable sources to establish the notability of this individual per WP:GNG and WP:NSPORTS. The most substantive source that was presented during this discussion is a 6-sentence article in the evening edition of a local newspaper that mentions Green as a possible future candidate to play baseball for the Orioles, along with a very brief synopsis of his history. Calling this "significant coverage" strains credulity to its breaking point, and this sentiment was quite convincingly argued by a number of participants in the discussion. JoelleJay (talk) 01:08, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I still disagree that those sources should be discounted under NOTNEWS and you leaving massive WALLSOFTEXT is not going to get me to change my mind. We clearly have enough coverage here to write a biography, and we've got several articles over a period of several years discussing him, enough to pass NBASIC, which states "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability." Deleting this very high quality article on a coach of a Division I football team would not in any way help the encyclopedia. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:14, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Again, he was not in any way the coach of a D-I football team, and cobbling together a bunch of quotes and stats from local news does not make those items encyclopedic or compliant with NOT, much less "very high quality". And I really hope you don't think BASIC is met with a literal police blotter; one sentence reporting what Vehmeier said/felt; an announcement in a Freeport paper that he had passed through town that also bafflingly misrepresents his 1-4 record as "The team had a very successful season, winning a majority of the games played and finishing among the top with the universities of the northwest"; or a routine injury report in local press that appears alongside what is apparently serialized coverage of the town's warring choral societies... JoelleJay (talk) 01:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
JoelleJay, your claim that University of North Dakota didn't become in an NCAA member until 1922 is almost certainly wrong and wholly irrelevant. The exact dates when schools joined in the NCAA in those days is obscure and appears to have been largely ignored by contemporary news coverage. North Dakota joined the newly-formed North Central Conference (NCC) in 1922, and the NCC eventually became associated with the NCAA, but I don't know when that happened, and it's unclear that the common NCC members all joined the NCAA in sync. I do recall an editor here (it might have been User:UW Dawgs) once finding an obscure document on the NCAA website that listed the years that various schools joined. What I recall from glancing at that document is that joining the NCAA seems to have had no functional impact on the level of a given team's competition in the early days (say pre-WWII). That's one of the reasons that for the time period before the NCAA first created divisions in 1956, we treat college football just as one unstratified bucket, e.g. 1912 college football season, 1955 college football season. Was North Dakota a major football team in 1912? Not really, but they did they play South Dakota, who in turn played Minnesota and Michigan, who certainly were major college football teams in 1912. North Dakota also played Minnesota each year from 1913 to 1916. Now, the main question at hand here, is Vehmeier notable, ultimately rests on specific coverage about him. But your suggestion that North Dakota was playing a lesser or illegitimate "sub-NCAA" brand of college football in 1912, and that should negatively impact the assessment Vehmeier's notably, is a faulty argument. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My statement was in direct rebuttal to the claim that the subject was a "D-I football coach", which suggested the level of college football UND was playing in 1912 was much more elite than it was (or would be for 100 years) and promoted an inappropriately positive assessment of Vehmeier's notability. JoelleJay (talk) 01:04, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, first, what I think BeanieFan11 meant what that Vehmeier is a historical coach of a program that is now NCAA Division I. I'm confident he knows that "NCAA Division I" didn't exist in 1912. Second, you made a number of statements, twice implying that North Dakota gained some sort NCAA status specifically in 1922. Such statement belie a misunderstanding of the material and advance false notions about technicalities of NCAA membership and what it meant in the early 1900s. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(North Dakota is Division I and has won national championships in the past – and he would meet NCOLLATH if he coached in more modern times – though oddly the criteria only applies post-1957?) and I am not sure we have ever deleted a D-I head football coach before sure implies a misunderstanding of NCAA history, and if that's not the case it's a pretty blatant misrepresentation of Vehmeier's position since obviously the many more years ND spent in the College Division/D-II would be more applicable than comparing 1912 to 2008. As for ND's NCAA membership, I had looked up the list of original members here (p. 25) and, unless it joined as an independent member sometime between 1909 and 1912, I find it doubtful it belonged to the NCAA when Vehmeier coached. Not that that would be relevant since it clearly did not represent the level of prestige then that it does now. JoelleJay (talk) 18:01, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I know my football history, I was arguing that since he is a historical coach of a current Division I football team, that should help his case here, especially since he arguably meets GNG and NBASIC. But whether I know football history or not (which is quite the absurd statement; I've studied it for years, have written about 700 articles on historical football and have improved many others; although surprisingly your the third editor to say that I am not knowledgeable) is off-topic. BeanieFan11 (talk) 13:51, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

NCOLLATH makes it clear that being a D-I coach is only predictive of GNG post the 1957 creation of divisions (and he wouldn't have met this criterion for 50+ years after that, either), so his being a coach 45 years earlier is not a valid guideline-based consideration whatsoever. JoelleJay (talk) 18:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I still think being the historical head coach of a current major program is important and should help his case. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:38, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Delete per JoelleJay. Therapyisgood (talk) 01:47, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Do either of you have any explanation of how deleting this very high quality article on a historical head coach of a Division I football team improves the encyclopedia? Especially when he's got several in-depth sources, including one calling him "one of the best coaches in the United States"! (Grand Forks Herald) BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The small-town newspaper serving UND using flowery language to hype UND's new 24-year-old still-in-college coaching hire is a staggeringly clear example of why such local news should not be used for determining notability. JoelleJay (talk) 02:03, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It was quite typical in that era for recent grads, grad students, and transfers who were in their early to mid 20s to be head coaches of college football teams. And sports coverage of that day was often written in a style that looks very flowery and goofy by today's standards. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep passes GNG. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:40, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep, the sources in this thread pass GNG. PK-WIKI (talk) 08:07, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep passes GNG based on the significant non-routine coverage from the Grand Forks Herald and Freeport Journal-Standard brought up by BeanieFan. Frank Anchor 12:08, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
keep clear pass of WP:GNG.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Weak keep but move to "Fred Vehmeier". When nominated, the article was a micro-stub and what little content there was turns out to have been about the wrong person. Pretty much a mess. BeanieFan has made a solid effort at saving the article, fixing the mistaken identity, and adding sourcing some of which is borderline SIGCOV. While the nomination was certainly warranted, circumstances have changed sufficiently to keep per Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria ("If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability."). Cbl62 (talk) 00:20, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Are you saying SPORTSBASIC doesn't need to be met? And how do the (very local) hiring announcements pass ROUTINE/NOTNEWS? The guy coached five games for a team that wasn't even part of the NCAA, got some brief mentions in hyper-local press, and then disappeared...why do we need to document every single game and every primary observation (e.g. the first-person description of him from Grand Forks) when all the actually relevant info is already contained elsewhere? JoelleJay (talk) 04:16, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
why do we need to document every single game and every primary observation ... when all the actually relevant info is already contained elsewhere? None of the information is contained anywhere else on Wikipedia. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:02, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
He's listed in the relevant navboxes and his coaching record is at List of North Dakota Fighting Hawks football seasons. We don't need more details than that for a person whose only claim to fame is coaching 5 games at an independent school that took another 10 years to get into the NCAA, was in the College Division and D-II until 2008, and only now is in D-I (and FCS at that). JoelleJay (talk) 14:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This article we have here is probably at least 500 times more helpful than an entry in that list; from this, you can learn all sorts of things; from that, you learn that he existed and coached for a year. I say, we should have these kinds of details and articles. The encyclopedia is made better this way. You were the one complaining at the mass removal of Olympians proposal that stubs are worthless and nobody cares about them, yet now you're saying that high quality articles are worthless too? What is something that an encyclopedia should have, in your opinion? BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:39, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comment. Predictably, all of the above keep !votes come from CFB project members following BF's notification there, with only the last providing an argument that doesn't make the faulty assertion that GNG is met with two brief routine hiring announcements published in hyper-local newspapers 5 days apart... JoelleJay (talk) 14:21, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

the faulty assertion that GNG is met – That is your opinion. Currently everyone else (besides Therapyisgood) has disagreed with you. If anyone is making "faulty arguments," I'd say that's you, repeatedly stressing "oh the coverage is local[1] so can't count and is ROUTINE[2]" — (1) discounting coverage for being local on people is completely non-policy based and (2) ROUTINE does not apply to people; it is for events. As for the members being football editors, I see absolutely no issue with that, considering that they would be the ones most knowledgeable on this subject. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:26, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
~~These are many of the same~~ Some of these keeps are the same CFB editors you rounded up to make those specious IAR arguments that got you and the project warned at ANI and whose GNG arguments were chastised by AfD closing admins ("Calling this "significant coverage" strains credulity to its breaking point"). 1) Local coverage is absolutely relevant, NSPORT even calls it into question with the warning it must be independent--the Grand Forks announcement in particular is suspect here given the clearly first-person account of the subject's appearance and the fact the hiring had been finalized at noon that day. How do we know this isn't a press release from the hiring committee, especially considering the hyperbolic praise it gives him? We also have multiple recent closes emphasizing the deficiencies of local news, e.g. the argument that an exclusive reliance on local news coverage implies a lack of notability, is persuasive[50], Despite the existence of substantial local coverage on the subject, there was a rough consensus that a standalone article is not warranted[51]. 2) As has been explained to you so. many. times by multiple people, "routine coverage" is defined by NOTNEWS, which applies to all articles (Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events... routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage). This has been affirmed by the numerous deletions/discussions based on arguments that sourcing is routine.[[52][53][54][55][56][57][58]

[59]"sources which are purely transactional in nature (coach hired) which we tend to discount at AfD". 3) The two sources above fail SUSTAINED, having been published 5 days apart. JoelleJay (talk) 15:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There you go again with the WALLSOFTEXT... My opinion is that this coach is notable, and you will not get me to change it. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:48, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And also These are many of the same CFB editors you rounded up to make those specious IAR arguments that got you and the project warned at ANI and whose GNG arguments were chastised by AfD closing admins ("Calling this "significant coverage" strains credulity to its breaking point") – (1) there was no consensus at that discussion for any kind of warning whatsoever, and (2) that was one close, and in it, the admin didn't even pay attention to the longer sources which were the main arguments for notability. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:50, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can't speak for any other editor, but no one "rounded me up" because I found the discussion through Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/American football, a page I frequently check. There was no consensus to warn anyone at ANI and you should strike the comment as incorrect. The coverage provided in the sources is cleary WP:NOTROUTINE and the subject passes WP:GNG.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:23, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I was also unaware of any notification on WikiProject CFB because I am not a member of that project. I am not one of the same CFB editors [Beaniefan] rounded up either. I learned of this AFD because I monitor the American football sort category. I also respectfully request JoelleJay strike this baseless accusation. Frank Anchor 19:13, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep - Passes GNG. While none of us were there to personally verify it, the paper saying he was one of the best coaches in the US and a star player also helps strengthen his case. ND were also state champions the year he coached and with them being an independent, that may have been the largest title they could have won, strengthening the notability and reasons to keep the article. Wikiproject CFB also specifically cites that even being a coach for one season does not disqualify anyone from being notable.KatoKungLee (talk) 15:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Article fails WP:GNG; looking through the sources available, they are trivial coverage (Vehmeier was hired as coach, coach lined up his team for practice, team was beaten, etc.). The Freeport Journal source provides glowing coverage (he is well known in this "city"), but we have to keep in mind that Freeport was/is a small town, and the tone of the article suggests a bit of puffery (if Vehmeier was really one of the best football coaches at that time, why did he take a position at a small university like UND?). Most of the other sources are the kinds of things anyone can find in a genealogy search; it certainly doesn't establish WP:SIGCOV. Jogurney (talk) 20:53, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete After going through the sources I feel it fails WP:GNG. User:Jogurney's above argument pretty much sums up my position on this one. I wouldn't be against redirecting it, for instance to North Dakota Fighting Hawks football. Alvaldi (talk) 10:18, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think it is a bit ridiculous to say that the sources do not cover the topic "directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content" (SIGCOV/GNG). From the shorter one (Freeport-Journal Standard), you learn that he is from Dakota, Illinois (1), attended Beloit College (2) then Illinois (3); was appointed head coach at UND (4) and had previously been at Illinois for one year (5), on the freshman team (6); prior to that he had spent two years at Beloit (7) and was a star athlete (8); he was a star freshman at Illinois as well (9), he was a well-known local figure (10), and had been working (it seems) the past few months for a large Harvesting company (11); and additionally his contract was a "lucrative" one (12). That's at least twelve different details ("directly and in detail") about Vehmeier and its from the shorter one! That's the definition of SIGCOV! BeanieFan11 (talk) 13:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And in addition to GNG (which this is definitely a pass of), this is also a very clear pass of WP:NBASIC, which states, "If the depth of any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources can be combined to demonstrate notability." BeanieFan11 (talk) 13:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That same argument could be made for "Thomas L. Lawson", a county surveyor whose departure from Grand Forks for San Diego was announced in the same edition as the "larger" Herald piece with a ~20-sentence column summarizing his whole career. JoelleJay (talk) 18:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Which is irrelevant. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:34, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pointing out other topics is not a valid argument in AFD discussions. We are here to talk about if Mr. Vehmeier’s notability, and nobody else’s. JoelleJay is a very experienced editor (particularly in AFD discussions) and should know this. Frank Anchor 22:22, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Delete, per the discussion above. WP:NOT overrides guidelines, and the capacity to extract details from a source does not mean those details are of encyclopedic value. Just about everyone holding an important position in a small U.S. town will receive coverage in multiple local newspapers, that doesn't mean an article on them through NBASIC is warranted. JoelleJay (talk) 18:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nobody is arguing that everybody who gets coverage in a small-town newspaper passes GNG. I think we both agree that, in close cases like this, we have to weigh the coverage with the impact/overall importance of the person. Which is why I often vote delete for one- and two-game NFL players from the 1920s and such (even in cases where there is a little bit of coverage in a local paper). In this case, reasonable minds can and do differ on that impact/importance. What tips me to a "weak keep" vote is (i) the impressive expansion in the few days that the AfD has been pending, and (ii) Vehmeier's status as a historical head coach at a major college football program. The North Dakota Fighting Hawks football program is one of the oldest and most prominent in the plains states, with a history dating back to 1894. Programs of this caliber warrant a full historical treatment, including IMO articles on each of its historic head coaches (assuming there is enough coverage to prepare a reasonably rounded article). This is not like so many of the early NFL and cricket players where we have deleted because there was literally nothing remotely approaching SIGCOV and no way to write a reasonably rounded article. I respect your conclusion, but the totality of the circumstances lead me to the other side of the divide. Cbl62 (talk) 20:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete, per the above. Reviewing many, but not all, of the sources, I have not been able to find WP:SIGCOV; one source comes close but doesn't, in opinion, meet that standard. If I am wrong then I would ask keep !voters to provide the best WP:THREE sources, which will make it easier for editors to assess the level if SIGCOV and make it easier for the closer to determine the strength of the arguments for and against the existence of SIGCOV. BilledMammal (talk) 04:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My argument is this: we've got two good sources, the ones about him coaching from the Grand Forks Herald and Freeport Journal-Standard, and then many other ones that are not as in-depth but still are useful and can be combined to demonstrate notability under NBASIC. And while his notability is close, considering that he is the historical head coach of a major Division I college football program we should be able to keep; deleting would not help the encyclopedia. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:20, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agree with Beanie on this one. We have been able to build a reasonably rounded article, and this is the type of circumstance for which WP:BASIC ("If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability.") fits like a glove. I'm all in favor of deleting/redirecting substubs based only on databases, but this is not that circumstance. Cbl62 (talk) 17:50, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
How can a biography be well-rounded if it's sourced almost entirely to primary, non-independent, and/or trivial news (and that doesn't even include all the local and routine sources)? And does this mean you believe SPORTSBASIC #5 is not required? JoelleJay (talk) 23:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We disagree about your assertion that the souring is all primary, non-independent, and trivial. This article has been substantially expanded with 15,126 characters and 28 sources, covering Vehmeier's life from his birth in Illinois, to his college career in Wisconsin, to his coaching career in North Dakota, and forward through marriage, later real estate career, and death. That's pretty well rounded IMO -- I'd guess top five percent of all sports biographies on Wikipedia -- not the sort of sub-stub that we ought to be seeking to expunge. As for SPORTSBASIC #5, I think you know I am a fan of it (I proposed it after all), but this provision was intended to aid us in expunging the plethora of sub-stubs sourced to databases and lacking any significant coverage that would allow us to write a well-rounded biography. Here, we have a clear pass of the overarching Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, and SPORTBASIC #5 was never intended, nor should it be misused, to trump or overrule the more general, overarching rule. Cbl62 (talk) 00:53, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Looking at just the first section of the body, the majority of the content there is cited to primary, non-independent, and trivial sources.
Sentence 1: state vital records (primary), draft registration cards (primary);

2: a mention in the Freeport Daily Journal (predecessor to the Journal-Standard) local interest section stating, in whole, "Fred Vehmeier, Jr., who is attending school in Dixon, spent Saturday and Sunday at home" (trivial; local news (pop. ~17500)); and the Freeport Daily Standard/Journal-Standard announcement that he was hired at UND (local news; and IMO routine);

3: an injury report from the Appleton Post-Crescent (local (pop. ~17000), routine);

4: a report from the Beloit school newspaper (not independent, local) stating Vehmeier had been selected for all-state by the sports editors of the Ripon and Beloit school newspapers (not independent, local);

5: the FJS hiring announcement and a two-sentence announcement in the local interest section of Devils Lake World that he was hired at UND (trivial, local (pop. ~5200), routine);

6: a peacock quote describing him from the Beloit school newspaper (not independent, local);

7: his name in a freshman squad list from the Daily Illini school newspaper (not independent, trivial, local); and the GFH announcement he was hired at UND (local (pop. ~12,500), IMO routine);

8: a two-sentence police blotter in the Chicago Tribune (primary, trivial);

9: the FJS source, which is used to claim he was "well-known in local towns and cities" but only says "Mr. Vehmeier is well known in this city."

10: a two-sentence announcement in the Freeport Daily Bulletin that he stopped by Freeport and will be working for the International Harvester company (not independent, trivial, local, routine).

NBASIC is not met with trivial mentions or non-secondary independent RS. Just because prose can be constructed out of such details doesn't mean it's encyclopedic. JoelleJay (talk) 01:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Come on Joelle. That a misleading and cherry-picked analysis that conveniently ignores the other 18 sources. Cbl62 (talk) 02:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
These are all the sources in the first section; do I need to assess the sourcing for all the other sentences too? And do you disagree with my characterizations of primary, non-independent, and trivial here? JoelleJay (talk) 02:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
~~Yes~~"It's up to you" and "yes". As one example, you dismiss this source on your wholly subjective claim that it's "trivial". To the contrary, it arguably qualifies as WP:SIGCOV as it addresses Vehmeier in some detail (two paragraphs, six sentences), reporting that he (i) was appointed head coach at North Dakota, (ii) will take charge of the team at once, (iii) attended Beloit College where he was a star athlete, (iv) attended the University of Illinois where he starred on the freshman football team, and (v) had been working for a large harvester company. Cbl62 (talk) 02:57, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I didn't say the FJS hiring announcement was trivial. I said it is routine in my opinion. And anyway, I analyzed the rest of the article and in the second section 17/23 sentences are cited to one clearly non-neutral source, the GFH (or that plus UND archives), and of the remaining 6 sentences 3 of them are to primary stats and 1 is to a trivial quote from Wausau. That leaves us with two sentences from anywhere else: sentence 1, which is sourced to the FDJ/FJS and GFH, and sentence 8, which is sourced to a game announcement in the Fargo Forum (also local) and the GFH. ~375/570 words in this section are direct quotes from GFH. The result is a predictably highly-positive account of Vehmeier sourced pretty much entirely to what is probably one reporter's opinion at the newspaper serving his school's 12,500-person town all over a timespan of under two months of his life. JoelleJay (talk) 04:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Update: Tudor Owen, the author of at least three GFH articles (sources 16, 18, 19) was a student at UND[60] at the time. Source #20 is by "Hank", likely another student. JoelleJay (talk) 15:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We've still got 24 other sources... (and those weren't the most in-depth ones, either, so it doesn't really affect his GNG/NBASIC pass) BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The content of the sources is not what determines if the article is of quality; rather, its the content of the article (also, I disagree that its sourced almost entirely to primary, non-independent, and/or trivial news). As for SPORTSBASIC, the Grand Forks Herald piece passes it. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
An article cannot be high quality without high quality sources. BilledMammal (talk) 00:09, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We've got ones that meet that standard... BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I disagree; we lack sources containing the significant coverage required. BilledMammal (talk) 00:35, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I disagree, and will leave it at that. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

*Comment It's unclear why John Vehmeier was converted to a redirect to Fred Vehmeier, who is an entirely different person, mid-AfD. I've restored the John article so that we can discuss it. –dlthewave ☎ 23:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC) *Delete John Vehmeier, the person whom this AfD is about and who has no significant coverage. Fred Vehmeier is a different person who should be nominated separately. –dlthewave ☎ 23:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

dlthewave, I think you've misunderstood what's going on here. The subject in question here has always been the man who was the head football coach of the University of North Dakota in 1912. That man was Fred Vehmeier. However, the article was originally titled "John Vehmeier" due to an error about his name originating in the North Dakota football media guide. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ok, I went ahead and changed it back. –dlthewave ☎ 00:31, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep - on the basis of BeanieFan11's work and Cbl62's argument regarding WP:BASIC ("If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability.") I'll add that I can't be the only one who has completely lost patience with the attitude of withering contempt routinely displayed by certain entrenched Delete !voters. Ingratis (talk) 17:53, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 13:30, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

comment there is no reason to relist this discussion, a good number of editors have commented. At this point, if the consensus isn't clear then it would clearly be "no consensus" -- this discussion can be closed based on the current volume of participation.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comment - what about a rename to 1912 North Dakota Fighting Sioux football team? Apart from the (different) obituary, the article is just a re-hashing of glowing press coverage of the football season focused on their coach. The topic is the football, not the person (who, as a 24 year old who never coached again, we can safely assume was never notable as "one of the best coaches in the United States"). Walt Yoder (talk) 19:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Small clarification: The UND football team was not then known as the "Fighting Sioux". If Walt's suggestion were adopted, the correct season article would be 1912 North Dakota Flickertails football team. Cbl62 (talk) 22:49, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Griffith Vaissaire[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG. Avilich (talk) 15:02, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Football. Avilich (talk) 15:02, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and South America. Shellwood (talk) 15:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Weak keep: Although the subject hadn't much coverage, I managed to find 3 sources (1 & 2 & 3) and added them to the page. She plays for a Dutch club and two of the sources are in Dutch meaning that she managed to attract some local media attention in the Netherlands. AmshitBalcon (talk) 20:08, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Source 1 seems to be a translation of the 2nd (or the other way around), and neither that nor the 3rd say much more that she was called for the national team, so that's not a GNG pass. Avilich (talk) 20:35, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:39, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - Per AmshitBalcon. I found 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10, among many more Dutch sources. Clearly significant figure in Surinamese women's football with ongoing international career and club career abroad. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:16, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The ED source is paywalled. The others are the usual drivel you claim is GNG/SIGCOV. Vaissaire lives and plays in the Netherlands so doesn't have a "club career abroad". That shows your understanding of the sources. BTW playing football no longer makes someone notable so stop spamming AFD with that non argument. Dougal18 (talk) 13:16, 14 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 21:29, 14 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - If we look at the sources provided above, it is clear that most of them are versions of the same press release announcing a Suriname call-up for Vaissaire (and another diaspora player). This press release contains very little information about Vaissaire; she plays amateur football for SSS in the Topklasse (second level) and futsal for a club that competes in district-level tournaments. There is a Suriname match preview which drops her name, and a note that she won an award with her futsal team. This coverage is about all I could find online, and it is woefully short of satisfying the WP:GNG. Jogurney (talk) 18:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete. Sources clearly do not demonstrate GNG. Agreed with Dougal18 about spamming useless sources. JoelleJay (talk) 16:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shawn Teller (talk) 23:07, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Weak keep Needs additional citations Zangoaviation (talk) 07:15, 21 March 2023 (UTC) — Zangoaviation (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Reply[reply]
Delete - Sources do not meet GNG. Please stop spamming AfDs with passing mentions. –dlthewave ☎ 01:24, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Penelope Blackmore[edit]

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Fails WP:NGYMNAST, WP:NOLY and WP:BIO. All the sources listed are primary. LibStar (talk) 05:25, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, and Australia. Shellwood (talk) 11:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:08, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Delete: Fails WP:NGYMNAST and WP:NOLY. Not enough evidence of reliable sources to support WP:GNG - GMH Melbourne (talk) 12:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Jahzara Claxton[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG. Some sources exist but not enough to meet WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:21, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, and Football. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:21, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Cricket and Caribbean. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:24, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:26, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep per below sources. Giant Snowman 19:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep A quick google search provided these sources about this two-sport athlete. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Even has a foreign article about her here. 10. Updated article with these and other sources - previous revision to current. Courtesy ping to @GiantSnowman: as requested above. Prominent figure in St Kitts sports, receiving a great deal of coverage with various news articles and a television appearance. Very good candidate for meeting Wikipedia:YOUNGATH. (PS you AfD'ed her on her birthday lol) RedPatch (talk) 23:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep, passes GNG with significant coverage above.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:49, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Leaning Weak keep. Of the above sources, #1 is by a Social media coach and consultant, #5 is written by the Minister of Sport on a Government run St. Kitts Nevis Information Service (SKINS), #6 and #7 are the same announcement from SKINS and #9 is an interview (PRIMARY). The rest might look good on the surface but when I go through the sources the feel rather thin. They are also from a span of 11 months so maybe WP:TOOSOON applies. Alvaldi (talk) 09:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, I came to a similar conclusion when reviewing these sources. The tour reception pieces are largely primary, e.g. Samal Duggins – the Minister of Agriculture of St Kitts and Nevis, felt extremely proud while welcoming Jahzara Claxton; the reports on the minister's financial contribution are almost entirely quotes/describing what someone said/repeating stats from a non-independent source without analysis; and the pieces on her call-up to the U19 cricket team are also deficient (the one that includes the opinion statement She is an exceptional sports lady, and we salute her certainly cannot be considered independent). For YOUNGATH subjects local sources (and I don't see how newspapers from a community of <50k and ~100 mi² -- roughly equivalent in population and area to Casa Grande, Arizona -- can be considered anything other than "local") are almost always excluded from notability consideration; this leaves just the Guatemalan article, which is pretty barebones and mostly in the context of a match recap. I would definitely support draftifying until we see whether her performance on the West Indies women's U19 T20 squad garners more diverse coverage. JoelleJay (talk) 16:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

After giving it some thought, I'm switching to Draftify. It is just to soon at the moment. Alvaldi (talk) 17:38, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Given the last two comments, I'm relisting to determine whether this article should be Kept or Draftified.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:34, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

~~Comment~~ Draftify - I don't believe there is SIGCOV of her football exploits, but perhaps there is something from her time in cricket. As noted above, there is some coverage of her selection to the West Indies' under-19 cricket team, but none of it looks in-depth to me. Maybe someone that follows cricket might have a better read? Jogurney (talk) 13:57, 20 March 2023 (UTC) Updating. Jogurney (talk) 19:56, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Draftify. Per the discussion above. JoelleJay (talk) 16:55, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - @GiantSnowman:, Per RedPatch and Ortizesp. WP:HEY also applies here. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 14:40, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep per @RedPatch: MetricMaster (talk) 08:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hadhari Djaffar[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Africa. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
comment I'd think 3-time Olympian, multiple national record holder and Olympic flag bearer would passe GNG. Should expect offline sources, their local (including Arabic) newspapers. Pelmeen10 (talk) 14:38, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete. Holding a national record for a tiny island nation in the Indian Ocean is not an independent basis for notability. Nor is mere participation in the Olympics. WP:SPORTBASIC provides: "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources." Cbl62 (talk) 14:57, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Arabic or French... Strange that there's no Arabic Wiki or French Wiki article for him. I take exception to the "tiny island nation" comment, I'd rather Keep because it's a nation, but if no one actually finds more sources I'm sure he'll be nominated for deletion again. DavidLeeLambert (talk) 12:49, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment Wikipedia's well-known systemic bias against places like Comoros is evident in this and other recent nominations. If a multiple Olympian and national record-holding track and field star from an African country isn't considered notable because online, largely western sources haven't covered them, that is not a good reason to erase their biography. It should be a call to action to fix the guidelines (which is what they are) and to re-evaluate Wikipedia as a project.--User:Namiba 15:46, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... or, alternatively, it could be a call to action to search for off-line sources to support the article. Cbl62 (talk) 16:00, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Though, to do that, whatever user wanting to save this article would have to learn a new language, spend thousands to fly to Comoros, and search their library archives, all in a week. I'd say re-evaluating the notability guidelines would be a better idea. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:01, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Keep - WP:Bias - It's Comoros, which has its own language that none of us know. They aren't going to have national newspapers archived online for us and none of us live there. I'd be shocked if we even had a couple of regular contributors from Comoros. Beyond that, he's an olympian and a multi-time record holder in his country.KatoKungLee (talk) 16:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@KatoKungLee: I disagree, this person would not be notable no matter their country of origin; a US or European athlete also has to pass WP:NTRACK and WP:GNG. --hroest 23:29, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Editors are certainly welcome to propose changes to our notability guidelines in the appropriate forums, but until then there's global consensus that this article "must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources".
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 18:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

delete per WP:NTRACK, it seems they never finished in the top 8 as required by guidelines. Applying objective guidelines to all athletes independent of country of origin is not WP:BIAS, but rather the opposite. --hroest 20:20, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete: Fails GNG, BIO, NSPORTS. Sources in article are not IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. BEFORE showed nothing that meets SIGCOV from IS RS, only blogs, stats, db entries. BLPs need clearly Ind RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notabilty to avoid abuse. // Timothy :: talk 22:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Delete - Notability requires actual proof that SIGCOV sources exist, not just the assertion that they're probably out there, and right now we have no coverage whatsoever aside from a statistics page. –dlthewave ☎ 01:49, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Merge/redirect to Comoros at the 2004 Summer Olympics (because he was flagbearer in that year) with remaining information, incl the ~~other two~~ 2000 Olympics which he also took part in, in a footnote. Ingratis (talk) 07:02, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mohamed Attoumane[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Africa. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Redirect to Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Men's 50 metre freestyle - WP:ATD. Ingratis (talk) 11:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, $Salvio giuliano$ 19:46, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redirect to Comoros at the 2008 Summer Olympics#Swimming. Although I see where Ingratis is coming from on the redirect target above, the country page has a lovely little well-sourced summary that exists about his work at that Olympics. I think it'd be a perfect target for a redirect. (I also checked other sources and found no coverage and no other relevant competitions). Nomader (talk) 21:04, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comment: I'm more than happy to support the alternative redirect target suggested by User:Nomader. Ingratis (talk) 14:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Athletics at the 1996 Summer Olympics – Men's 400 metres. Vanamonde (Talk) 02:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hassan Abdou[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:46, 9 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Africa. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:46, 9 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the