Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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Edit conflict-like situation that recreated a draftified article[edit]

The other day in working on some articles in CAT:UNCAT, I came upon Mulashidi. I added a category and removed the uncatted tag, and there my interaction with the article ended, or so I thought. Then Liz came to my talk page to ask why I had recreated an article that had been draftified to Draft:Mulashidi. Huh? I looked at the article history and saw to my surprise that I had "created" this article. Extra huh??? Then I looked at the logs, and saw that SunDawn's draftification and my "creation" of the article happened in the same minute. Apparently I was finding a category at the same time another editor was moving it. I was not, to my recollection, asked if I wanted to create an article that didn't exist. This may be an oddball fluke, but since it happened to me, it could happen to others as well. The system needs some sort of way to handle such things that aren't checking the history to make sure you didn't just accidentally recreate an article that existed before you started editing. Thanks to Mandarax for looking at the situation and suggesting I bring it here. LadyofShalott 13:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Maybe HotCat's API requests are not using proper edit conflict detection such as starttimestamp, baserevid, etc. The code appears to be at commons:MediaWiki:Gadget-HotCat.js. There doesn't appear to be an active maintainer, the history is an assortment of editors. Next step would probably be to post on one of the HotCat talk pages (Wikipedia talk:HotCat or commons:MediaWiki talk:Gadget-HotCat.js). –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not just HotCat; something similar has happened to me a few weeks ago when the article was deleted at the same time as I moved it to draft. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:15, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikiproject assessment categories[edit]

There's been a recurring problem that I want to raise for discussion, because it's becoming truly tiresome.

The process is as follows:

  1. Somebody recodes a WikiProject template with standard automated one-size-fits-all code that generate a whole passel of new redlinked assessment categories that don't already exist (e.g. Category:Redirect-Class Indian history articles of Unknown-importance) which thus get picked up at Special:WantedCategories.
  2. Because WantedCategories has a hard limit to how many categories it can detect, those of us who work with it can never leave any redlinks unaddressed: because they'll just pile up and push the report ever closer to that limit if there are redlinks left unaddressed by the time a new run happens 72 hours later, we always have to ensure that every single redlink in that list is always resolved before the next run happens. But since I don't ordinarily work with Wikiproject templates, I can't just edit them to make the redlinks disappear without running the risk of breaking other stuff, and I can't just wrap the template in {{Suppress categories}} because that will suppress legitimate bluelinked categories too — so with no way to just make the redlinks go away, I'm left with no choice but to invest significant amounts of time into creating the relevant categories so that they'll be resolved from the report.
  3. Sometime after that, somebody who's actually associated with the Wikiproject in question deems those categories as unwanted, and wipes the code back out of the template so that the categories are emptied back out. But, of course, if they were genuinely not wanted, then they never should have been generated in the first place.
  4. As a result, I get carpet-bombed with an unending barrage of creator-notifications that the categories are up for speedy deletion as empty categories — I've gotten at least 35 of these just in the past month alone.

I'm bloody sick and effing tired of this, and it needs to stop. Templates aren't supposed to be generating redlinked categories in the first place, so the templates shouldn't be generating or populating redlinked categories in the first place, and I'm tired of taking the shrapnel from a cycle of unwanted categories getting generated and then ungenerated by a lack of coordination around wikiproject template edits.

Is there anything that can be done to stop this? Bearcat (talk) 18:43, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Last time you came to Module talk:WikiProject banner we took action that should have reduced this happening. I've checked Category:Redirect-Class Indian history articles of Unknown-importance and don't see anything there. Are you sure there was something in there, because I would not expect that category to be used if it did not exist? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:11, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's empty now precisely because it's gone through the exact "populated as a redlink, created accordingly, and then depopulated and deleted" cycle I was describing (which is why I chose it as an example, because it's evidence of the cycle I was talking about.) If steps were already taken to reduce this, they certainly haven't reduced it much, because new template-generated wikiproject assessment categories keep turning up at WantedCategories — I had to create another passel of them literally just yesterday. Bearcat (talk) 22:41, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Category:Redirect-Class Indian history articles of Unknown-importance was created 4 October 2023 and nominated for deletion as empty 3 November 2023 where it had probably been empty for a while. It's hard to track categorization more than 30 days ago (a MediaWiki time limit) but I trust it had content when it was created. Thanks for all your category work. I hope you don't feel blamed when you say "taking the shrapnel". It's just standard notifications and you can remove them per WP:REMOVED (may be an exception). 35 in a month may be annoying but you make thousands of monthly edits so I guess they take relatively little of your total time here. We don't like red categories on articles but are less concerned with having them temporarily on talk pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
WP:REMOVED says the user may not remove speedy deletion tags. I think that only means when a userspace page itself is tagged for deletion, and does not apply to notifications that other pages are tagged. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter: I've boldly added a clarifying footnote to WP:REMOVED. AFAIK that's the way it's always been interpreted. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:55, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sidebar is hiding when a Wikipedia page was last edited and links below it[edit]

The Wikipedia Sidebar is now hiding when a Wikipedia page was last edited and the writing and links below it when you scroll down to the bottom of a page with many sidebar links. For example, the "Privacy policy", "About Wikipedia" and "Disclaimers" are also now hidden from view. Someone has recently edited the page layout on Wikipedia for the worse as this was not the case 5 days ago. (talk) 05:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can reproduce this with Vector-2022 in Firefox, Edge and Chrome, logged in or out, with or without safemode. Pick a page with a long TOC, e.g. this page. Make sure the TOC is shown in the sidebar and not hidden. The TOC extends to the bottom of the window and covers the left part of the footer. "23, at 06:36." is the only visible part of "This page was last edited on 3 December 2023, at 06:36." The next lines become visible at "Attribution-ShareAlike", "a non-profit organization" and "Contact Wikipedia". Either the sidebar should stop before the footer or the whole footer should move to the right of the sidebar like the content of the wiki page. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:28, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is a known issue, and fixed in the next release. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:26, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Long tables of contents truncated[edit]

For articles/discussion pages with very long tables of contents, such as this one, in vector2022 on Firefox on a Mac, I am getting the table of contents truncated after a certain length. For instance, on this page, as I type this, the table of contents that I see (when I scroll down to the bottom of either the ToC or the actual page) shows the top few pixels of #Rotten tomatoes prose template (or rather "Rotten tomatoes prose" as the "template" wraps to the next line that I cannot see), and the next heading, #The center class, is completely omitted. I suspect some length calculation gone awry, as it is always near the end of what should be the full table of contents regardless of the number of entries. Is anyone else seeing this? Any ideas what to do to get it fixed? —David Eppstein (talk) 22:21, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is the same issue as #Sidebar is hiding when a Wikipedia page was last edited and links below it. Izno (talk) 23:44, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I doubt it. It has nothing to do with how much of the window the TOC rectangle covers or what might be hidden under that rectangle. It is about the objects within the TOC rectangle and how much of them can be seen by scrolling within the rectangle. To put it another way: once it needs to scroll, the TOC rectangle is always the same size (the height of the window). The *contents* of the TOC rectangle (the stuff you can scroll) may be a much larger size. This bug involves some miscalculation of the size of the contents of the TOC rectangle, causing the TOC entries beyond the miscalculated size to be unviewable. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:23, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Right, but the reason you can't see the last item is because it's overflowing the bounds it's supposed to and so under the typically-present bar at the bottom of the page that goes with the expander square on the right hand side. I am pretty sure it's the same issue. Izno (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe. On closer view, the problem is that the TOC rectangle is extending past some bottom margin on the screen. You can tell that it's the TOC rectangle being cut off rather than the contents of the TOC rectangle being cut off because the rounded bottom of the scroll bar is also cut off. Only the left sidebar has this margin; the main window and right sidebar contents extend past it. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TOC cut off in 2022 skin[edit]

In Special:Permalink/1188211731, the section #Revoke TPA for temporarily blocked user does not appear in the table of contents in the left sidebar. It is section number 58 in this revision. –LaundryPizza03 (d) 00:45, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Both issues appear to have been fixed. Nthep (talk) 22:05, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Article contents navigation menu has disappeared[edit]

There used to be a article table of contents navigation menu on the left hand sidebar of the latest skin. It seems to have disappeared. I was please with the choice of moving the TOC to the sidebar to the article body; but now, without the TOC in the sidebar, we have no TOC at all.

This is a major regression in usability; please restore it. — The Anome (talk) 13:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do you have it hidden on an icon next to the heading? PrimeHunter (talk) 13:13, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I finally found the icon next to the article title. I think this must have been switched on quite recently. I see I'm not the only person who's been bitten by this, see #Invisible_table_of_contents. Nor is the only sidebar bug that's been reported recently.

This is absoulutely terrible UI with no discoverability: who thought this was a good idea, and how can we get report this to the relevant people who can get this fixed? — The Anome (talk) 14:22, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For me I have to explicitly hit the "hide" button on the TOC to move the TOC to the heading. Is your screen particularly narrow - it seems that if your screen is super narrow than the TOC automatically moves there which is bad UX. Galobtter (talk) 16:37, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
One man's bad UX is another man's "almost ready for use on mobile". I dream of the day we only have one default skin. Izno (talk) 18:02, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A single skin, yes, but not everything should be the same for all devices. Tiny devices are not the same as desktop/laptop screens, no matter how high the DPI. Breaking the desktop to make mobile better is not cool, nor vice versa. That's what CSS media selectors are for, and I note Vector 2022 has a fair few of them in its CSS already. They need to be used better, and more carefully. — The Anome (talk) 21:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The irony is that they already use media queries - that is fundamentally how JavaScript decides to be wrapped up in a little button at narrow widths. Izno (talk) 21:41, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Proposal for change to copy of "has been changed" emails[edit]

Currently, the message sent to anyone who subscribes to edits on a page reads as below, emphasis mine:

There will be no other notifications in case of further activity unless

you visit this page while logged in. You could also reset the

notification flags for all your watched pages on your watchlist.

I propose it be changed to : You can also reset the

notification flags for all your watched pages on your watchlist.


@Trizek (WMF) did I do this right?

Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 14:11, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is MediaWiki:Enotif body if we want to change it locally, but I don't recommend creating a customized version for such a small change to a long message. The MediaWiki default might get more significant changes later, e.g. to describe a future feature or behaviour. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Context being that Dreameditsbrooklyn wants help filing a ticket about this at phab - Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Proposal_for_change_to_copy_of_"has_been_changed"_emails Galobtter (talk) 16:41, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. Can anyone help? I am happy to rewrite the request or whatever Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 14:27, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rotten tomatoes prose template[edit]

There is something wrong with the Rotten tomatoes prose template. For an example see Frybread Face and Me. MisawaSakura (talk) 18:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That was fixed by this edit at Frybread Face and Me#Reception which changed "eight" to "8" in the {{Rotten Tomatoes prose}} call. A recent edit at that template changed it to spell numbers per MOS rules. Johnuniq (talk) 23:54, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The center class[edit]

Where is this CSS rule

.center {
  width: 100%;
  text-align: center;

defined? It's not in MediaWiki:Common.css. The problem: at Wikipedia:WikiProject Doctor Who/Article alerts under MonoBook skin and Firefox 120.0.1, the box at the top (with the TARDIS/police box image at each end) overflows the right-hand edge by a tiny bit, causing a horizontal scrollbar to appear. The page source has <div class="center" ...> and I have found that suppressing the width: 100% declaration stops the overflow from occurring. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:00, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The class is defined in core MediaWiki and was originally intended primarily for centering images (well, to remove what was then use of <center>...</center> -- which was in the image centering code). It spread both onwiki and code-side. Wiki editors now use it for other reasons when they perhaps should not. (See also phab:T282063#7064571.)
As to the specific motivation, I think the appropriate fix is simply to remove the class. Divs are already 100% by default allowing some leeway for internal content, so this necessitates adding the text-alignment. The other fix would be adding box-sizing: border-box if for some reason you think the class merits keeping. I favor removal in this case. Izno (talk) 21:25, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The center class has been specifically recommended for centering image galleries for quite a while at Help:Gallery tag#Center (here's the page in 2015), although a better method would be welcome, because it doesn't work in all cases, including with the popular perrow attribute. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:54, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I got this error when trying to edit an article. I see this has happened before in 2020. Looks like someone at Wikipedia:Help desk#Database error when trying to edit an article has filed a ticket at Phabricator, tracked at phab:T352628. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@InfiniteNexus I encountered the same bug about 10 minutes ago. Bug now, it seems that the this DB bug is resolved. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 08:13, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I keep getting this error trying to edit Wellington (disambiguation). I'm able to edit other articles. olderwiser 12:05, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just got it, and reproduced, trying to do a small edit on Handball (disambiguation), something's fishy here.
[880bbfb7-540e-49ff-bd80-5d1f0880e872] 2023-12-04 13:11:04: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"
--Joy (talk) 13:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My new attempts there also get:
To avoid creating high replication lag, this transaction was aborted because the write duration (3.465854883194) exceeded the 3 second limit. If you are changing many items at once, try doing multiple smaller operations instead.
[5b6f2722-25fb-4736-a8a1-061b5bc2d481] 2023-12-04 14:31:18: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBTransactionSizeError"
--Joy (talk) 14:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
JFTR that edit went through in the meantime. And Phabricator indicates the developers are figuring it out. --Joy (talk) 17:05, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I also had errors on two edits in the last couple of hours. I didn't record the first but the second was [29eec93d-299b-4bdf-89d1-88caca3466b5] 2023-12-04 14:13:41: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBTransactionSizeError" on this edit. Both worked after I used the browser's Back button and clicked Publish again. Certes (talk) 14:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Still getting an error on this. I was getting something about a transaction being too large and taking too long (>3 sec) for a couple attempts. This attempt I got
A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.
[4d773f04-424e-4f64-af0f-f259aa808ecd] 2023-12-04 14:44:28: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"
Attempts to edit my user sandbox page were successful.
Kimen8 (talk) 14:45, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've been getting this error this morning too: To avoid creating high replication lag, this transaction was aborted because the write duration (15.307519674301) exceeded the 3 second limit. If you are changing many items at once, try doing multiple smaller operations instead. [1cd8ddfe-f560-4300-b162-1d4d0448423c] 2023-12-04 16:19:03: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBTransactionSizeError" These aren't large changes I'm attempting. I have gotten a few edits through, but it's hit or miss. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:23, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It seems to be an issue with DB queries taking too long, see for more information NW1223<Howl at meMy hunts> 16:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Got it when trying to edit Legislative Assembly of Costa Rica, but when I tried a second time, the edit went through fine. Cremastra (talk) 17:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I got this type of error just now trying to edit Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. At least now I know what the problem is. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:46, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Database error[edit]

I'm trying to revert this unsourced/WP:CRYSTAL edit to 2007 Formula One World Championship, but I keep getting error messages of the form:

A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.
[38a2ed1b-239f-4448-841c-e65ec46331ef] 2023-12-04 08:28:23: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"

I've tried a couple of different edit summaries, and I'm able to edit other articles. Could someone else please try reverting the edit? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 08:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I tried to revert it and also got a DBQueryError. It looks like there is already a ticket filed on Phabricator; see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError. Malerisch (talk) 08:46, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Am having the same problem at First Mithridatic War and another editor has reported similar problems at WP:Teahouse - Arjayay (talk) 11:52, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Have now edited First Mithridatic War - problem may be cleared/clearing? - Arjayay (talk) 12:46, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Me as well at Vista, California ... [ab2894fb-78ff-4187-a212-713464e91635] 2023-12-04 12:22:58: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError". Magnolia677 (talk) 12:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Same here, at Deer Park, New York: [a4dc9654-fbed-48be-8eb3-a597446272e9] 2023-12-04 12:32:07: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError" WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:33, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And the same here (in the UK), from about 2 hours ago, editing Caligula, using MacBook. Sometimes it lets me edit but not save. Other times, it works fine but not for long. There's no pattern to it that I can discern. My Watchlist responds to changes in all other articles. Haploidavey (talk) 12:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC) Just tried a test edit, and was treated to the following:Reply[reply]
I am getting this with many different articles. Mellk (talk) 13:21, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Database error

To avoid creating high replication lag, this transaction was aborted because the write duration (5.7858679294586) exceeded the 3 second limit. If you are changing many items at once, try doing multiple smaller operations instead.

[b08b554e-cf70-4cd8-8291-03dd2733d85a] 2023-12-04 13:01:46: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBTransactionSizeError"

Haploidavey (talk) 13:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is the kind I'm getting, and lots of them:

Database error

A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.

[74e1f80b-d290-4d16-836e-3c887005d683] 2023-12-04 14:01:55: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"

 — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  14:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Getting the same issue with the article Martin Artyukh. [85a67d40-833b-409f-a662-ba0486de9b09] 2023-12-04 15:51:16: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError" --BlameRuiner (talk) 15:52, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yup, I'm getting the same error across multiple articles - sometimes takes multiple attempts to get a change to save. Parsecboy (talk) 16:23, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Recovering from it?[edit]

When this error hits me, if I go "back" in the browser to get back to the text I was working on, all my changes are gone. This is actually weird behavior in Chrome. E.g., if I instead get an edit-conflict page, I can "Back" in the browser freely. But when this DB error happens, it's like it somehow messes up the page cache. Does anyone know of a way to recover the text that was being worked on? I have an article that did a whole lot of cleanup work in (probably a good half hour of it) and don't want to lose all that work if I can help it. I'm still sitting on the DB error page on that one.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  14:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Update: I took a gamble, and it turns out that clicking the Reload button worked (caveats: in Chrome, and without triggering another DB error; I have no idea what another browser would do, or what would happen if the DB error had recurred, and it might, since in trying to make a typo fix at another page I had to try five times, though each time I did it as a manual edit, not a reload).  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  14:28, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
FWIW in my Firefox, the back button got me back into the previous state, with the content and summary fields intact, so I can keep retrying trivially. --Joy (talk) 14:33, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm in Microsoft Edge, and the back button gets me to the state pre-submission, with edits and summary in place. Though I am now taking a copy of the text before clicking Publish. Tacyarg (talk) 14:55, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm using Chrome on a chromebook and if I hit the Back button, I get the original article state from when I hit edit (i.e., I lost my changes and edit summary). I'm just going to wait until it seems to be resolved before making any more edits. Kimen8 (talk) 14:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


phab:T352628 claims the issue is fixed. I went back to retry my edit at Deer Park, New York and was successful. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It is indeed fixed. NW1223<Howl at meMy hunts> 18:11, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yep, fixed now. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:54, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Getting in a mess with templates trying to make a nice looking help page[edit]

Hi all

I'm working on a help page and the best way to present the information is having text on the left hand side with a title and subtitle and an image on the right which covers about 50% of the width of the page, the table should consistently cover the width of the page. Basically the structure like this



Body of text


Image description

I know this is quite elaborate but its extensive documentation which needs illustration and needs to be attractive for an external audience of professionals.

I've worked out I probably need to use the flex columns template, and also the scalable image template. These two work independently of each other and look good but when I try and glue them together all the text just disspears even though its in the template in the source editor...

Could someone who knows about templates help me understand what I'm doing wrong? I'm not sure if I'm making a small formatting error or if I'm trying to use two things together that don't like each other...


Body text

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 08:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You appear to be running into the problem where an = cannot appear inside an unnamed template parameter, so your first parameter is being interpreted as being named <h3 style with its value beginning "height:1%; font:25px/1.2 .... Try using explicit parameter names |1= and |2= in the call to {{flex columns}}. Anomie 12:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Anomie thanks very much for your explanation, I'm not sure I understand completely, I've tried adding adding numbers in front of the pipes which has brought back the body text but not the heading text in the h3 code... I've removed the h3, but honestly the documentation won't work without it because I need to allow people to use an index jump to different sections. I think this is a bit beyond my ability, if its easier please feel free to just change it or point me to a page where I can ask or work it out. Its pretty important I have these headings in the text. Thanks again, John Cummings (talk) 17:41, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@John Cummings: When I tried it just now at User:Anomie/Sandbox5, the heading is there, it's just not really visible in the output due to the height:1% inline CSS combined with overflow: hidden from the skin. Anomie 19:13, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Anomie thanks so much, I changed it to 100% and I made the text appear! :) (hope you don't mind me editing your sandbox) but now there is a gap of the whole of the height of the image between the heading and the body text, I have tried removing any kind of padding between them but it doesn't work at all... :( Two steps forward, 1.99999999 steps back, John Cummings (talk) 19:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You can remove the height attribute entirely. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by setting the height of the heading element? isaacl (talk) 19:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Anomie and Isaacl thanks so much for your help, it works :) John Cummings (talk) 09:00, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Markup that derives the file page for a TimedText page[edit]

While cleaning up Wikipedia:Database reports/Timed Text without a corresponding File, I keep tripping over the fact that in order to check that a TimedText page is deletable, I need to edit the URL to get from e.g TimedText:Dua Lipa Blow Your Mind (Mwah) to File:Dua Lipa Blow Your Mind (Mwah) sample.ogg. Is there a template, parser function or whatever that can display such a link automatically? The titleparts one keeps the "" bit in, making it useless. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I wonder if MediaWiki:timedmedia-timedtext-title-edit-subtitles can be edited so the "File:..." part in the top heading for an srt page is a wikilink which turns red if the file doesn't exist. If not, perhaps the responsible code in the TMH extension should be modified to link it. Nardog (talk) 17:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, maybe we can add a link, but for that we first need to know how to strip the "" (and equivalent) bits out. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
$2 is already the file name with that part stripped. My suggestion is simply to turn it into a wikilink, not add extra text. Nardog (talk) 07:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is some javascript for that at c:Commons:Village pump/Technical#Gadget to jump from timedtext back to audio/video file. Another option is to open the player and click the i with an circle, that will also direct you to the file page. Snævar (talk) 19:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That works for TT pages attached to working files, not for the scenario where the file was deleted or moved. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Or you just ctrl click the video and the browser opens the file page in a new tab (just like any image). Or right click and choose "open in new window/tab". And if there is no video found, it should not display a video in the page and you would get "There is no video associated with the current subtitle page." next to the subtitle content. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Does it also display "There is no video associated with the current subtitle page." when the video exists as a redirect, or is on Commons? Because in these cases measures other than deletion would be needed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For TT pages that refer to Commons repos, It hides their contents and says: "You can view the description page for this file on Wikimedia Commons (production)" (example). For redirects it says "There is no video associated with the current subtitle page" (example). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

MediaWiki:timedmedia-timedtext-title-edit-subtitles is a page heading which should not contain anything else (rather large letters for that, BTW).

  • MediaWiki:editnotice-710 might provide guidance.
  • You could grab the TimedText page title and extract the expected File: by Template:str rep pattern.
  • If desired, an {{#ifexist:}} for the related File: could issue a related warning for everybody, otherwise provide a link to the expected File: (perhaps always as requested by initiating this section).
  • TimedText:Seven (sample) is not .en. but should be covered as well. Perhaps a note on wrong language.

Greetings --PerfektesChaos (talk) 13:06, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah, that last point is the problem - I need a code that can strip the text after the second-to-last dot. Str rep does not do that, it needs to be told "pt" or whatever. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you #invoke Module:String#replace with |plain=false, that may do the job. Certes (talk) 16:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For example, "{{#invoke:String|replace|TimedText:Dua Lipa Blow Your Mind (Mwah)|^TimedText:(.*)%.%w+%.%w+$|File:%1|1|plain=false}}" produces "File:Dua Lipa Blow Your Mind (Mwah) sample.ogg". Certes (talk) 16:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, that works better. To clarify, I am thinking to put {{#ifexist:{{#invoke:String|replace|{{FULLPAGENAME}}|^TimedText:(.*)%.%w+%.%w+$|File:%1|1|plain=false}}|This timed text is attached to a redirect.|There is no video associated with the current subtitle page.}} on MediaWiki:Timedmedia-subtitle-no-video so that we can tell the difference. Or would a software patch to create a new message for TimedText attached to redirects make more sense? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:46, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, in the long run the TimedText:*.srt pages should be equipped with something like MediaWiki:timedmedia-timedtext-intro or whatever (empty by default).

  • I did suggest MediaWiki:editnotice-710 as first aid for now, since no other system message is transcluded today.
  • A phabricator proposal might work in some weeks or years.

Enjoy --PerfektesChaos (talk) 20:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If the phabricator proposal is simple enough that it doesn't take me hours to verify that we won't break anything, wrt to performance or 3rd party users, i can easily fix them. I'm essentially the only person maintaining TMH next to brion so. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's weird - when I make a test redirect on File:Test.mp3 and then create, the latter simply attaches the TimedText to the redirect target. I don't think it did the latter yesterday. Once I break the redirect however in this edit it displays "There is no video associated with the current subtitle page." Now I dunno anymore if splitting the MW messages is warranted or trivial (also, would that be one or two Phab tasks?) Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2023-49[edit]

MediaWiki message delivery 23:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'd like to DOUBLE point out to people the Grid Engine shutdown process that is coming up. This has been planned for over a year, but 450 tools have not switched their code yet, so those are bots and tools that might start to go missing in December if people do not take action. Please check the list for the tools that you use and see if you can contact the maintainer who might have missed all the earlier announcements of this. If you have some time available, maybe offer to help out your fellow tool maintainers, or if a tool is completely abandoned, you might want to adopt it. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Odd variation[edit]

Why does {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} yield different counts when I look at main page, WP:VA3 and WP:VA5.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The count (as well as most wiki content) is cached for performance reasons. You can refresh it by purging. Articles are created pretty quickly over here on enwiki, so the counts will likely always be a little bit off depending on when the page cache was last purged. Special:Statistics or using mw:API:Siteinfo should be more exact. MusikAnimal talk 20:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've proposed a technical change to the WP:Navigation popups gadget at MediaWiki talk:Gadget-popups.js#Live_preview_refactor. The salient features of the change include:

  • Removed the custom wikitext parsing engine at wiki2html() and replaced it a call to the parsing API
  • Refactored the generateLink() to not use raw HTML manipulation

Thoughts, comments and beta-tests are welcomed. Sohom (talk) 01:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Background colour in table[edit]

(i) Does anyone know how you introduce colour to a table background, as here? (ii) Do people think it's effective? (I do—perhaps a slightly paler yellow, though.) Tony (talk) 03:12, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Tony1: the table has this: -style="background:LemonChiffon; color:black" is that what you're asking? WP:COLOR and MOS:COLORS have guidance on the use of colors. RudolfRed (talk) 03:59, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you very much, Rudolf.Tony (talk) 04:04, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Infobox deletion discussion notice[edit]

I’ve noticed that, on the mobile website - for articles that transclude {{Infobox gender and sexual identity}} - the notice that states ‹ The template [X] is being considered for deletion › is displayed at the top of the page (and clashes with the opening sentence), rather than on top of the infobox itself (as I assume it should be doing). As an example, see this screenshot of the Transgender article.

I’m assuming that this is something that may (hopefully!) be able to be fixed by tweaking {{Template for discussion/dated}}, however, I’d have no idea where to start figuring it out myself! Is anyone aware if there’s any way to force the deletion discussion notice to stick to the top of the infobox on mobile web?

Best, user:A smart kittenmeow 10:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The infobox has class="infobox" and is therefore moved down in mobile by mw:Reading/Web/Projects/Lead Paragraph Move. The deletion tag would also move in mobile if it had the infobox class but this adds unwanted formatting. Is there another way to make mobile move it? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:42, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter I went ahead and added the nomobile class for now, feel free to swap it out if someone comes up with a better solution. If there isn't a better solution, we might want to add nomobile to the sidebar option at Template:Template for discussion/dated. --Ahecht (TALK
) 21:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Ahecht One problem with adding nomobile to Template:Template for discussion/dated would be that it would mean people on mobile viewing pages that transclude templates at TfD wouldn’t be notified of the ongoing deletion discussion - and thus some of those who may be affected by a template’s deletion wouldn’t know to take part. Best, user:A smart kittenmeow 10:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@A smart kitten Agreed, it's a stopgap at best, but it's better than implying that the entire transcluding page is going to be deleted. --Ahecht (TALK
) 18:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pale Moon not showing wikipedia page[edit]

Pale Moon v32.5.1 (64-bit)

Mac OS X 10.8

Wikipedia not showing text / images; sometimes it shows sidebar only, then text vanishes when scrolling. (talk) 13:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pale Moon is not a supported browser and the 11 year old Mac OS 10.8 is not easy to test against either, so it is really difficult to assist with debugging a problem like this. Have you tried the Pale Moon support forums ? These are probably more likely to have experts who can figure out why specific pages won't work in your combination. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:22, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Add an "are you sure?" pop-up when you log out[edit]

Several times, I have accidentally logged out while trying to view my contributions page. I think that when you press Log Out, there should be a pop-up where you confirm that you actually want to log out and did not just press the button accidentally. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:10, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@QuicoleJR you could try or adapt one of these userscripts: User:Fred Gandt/confirmLogout.js, User:Guywan/Scripts/ConfirmLogout. — xaosflux Talk 14:14, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't actually know how to use those. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:21, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hey QuicoleJR, if you edit this file and add the following:
mw.loader.load('//'); // Backlink: [[User:Fred_Gandt/confirmLogout.js]]
You should then be prompted to confirm logging out TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 15:36, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I pasted the code in but it didn't work. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:42, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@QuicoleJR: Fred Gandt's script didn't work for me either, but Guywan's did. Paste mw.loader.getScript(""); // Backlink: [[User:Guywan/Scripts/ConfirmLogout.js]] into your common.js, and it should work. Cremastra (talk) 22:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That did not work for me either. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You can try accessing your My Contributions page using a hotkey. In Chrome you can use Alt-Y or Alt-Shift-Y, I think. hotkeys vary by browser and operating system, but the one for My Contributions will contain the letter Y. –Novem Linguae (talk) 14:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Novem Linguae: Thank you for the suggestion, but I edit on a mobile device, so that will not work for me. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Are you using a browser (MinervaNeue skin), Wikipedia iOS app, or Wikipedia Android app? –Novem Linguae (talk) 14:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Browser, but using Vector 2022 skin. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hidden ToC dis-appeares on it's own during scrolling[edit]

If, on my user page ( Steue ) ,

  • I have the Table of Content ( ToC ) hidden, and
  • do click into this little field to the left of my user name,
  • the ToC does open downwards.
  • Then I move my mouse pointer into this ToC and
  • then I start scrolling down ( with a side sweep on my touch pad ) within this ToC, which means:
    the box with the ToC ( including the whole page i.e. what is out-side of the ToC ) is moving up-wards. - So far, so good.
  • But when a few upper parts of my 4th main section have appeared,
  • the whole ToC disappears - and this is not what I expect and want.

The result is:
The only way I can reach the lower sections of my ToC is by moving the ToC to the left---besides scrolling down the actual content.

What I want:
Once the Table of Content is dropped down, it should be scrollable down to the last line, and not dis-appear mid-way of scrolling.

Ping welcome, Steue (talk) 21:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Steue tried to duplicate, here is what I saw - is this what you see? If you scroll down enough so that the top of the collapsed TOC scrolls off the page, it moves (collapsed) to the header, to the left the of page title which also moves there. — xaosflux Talk 21:20, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@ xaosflux
Exactly: If the top of the open ToC goes over the top, the ToC collapses.
My system: (I confess) Windows 8.1 and Firefox (as late as possible) 115.5.0esr (64-bit); mozilla-win-eol-esr115 - 1.0 .
Steue (talk) 21:29, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Steue: I've opened bug phab:T352930 on this. Please feel free to add additional information there, or subscribe to it for updates. This is not a condition that is happening only here on the English Wikipedia, but one that would need to be resolved in the software. — xaosflux Talk 23:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@xaosflux: Thanks for the info and especially the task to Phab, because I don't have an e-mail address, so I can't register to Phab.
Steue (talk) 00:12, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hidden templates creating whitespace[edit]

On the page Duloxetine, three sequential "Use..." templates seem to create a big whitespace gap/line breaks after the Distinguish hatnote:

Removal of any one of them seems to remove this, perhaps there is an extra line break in one of them? There is also a hidden section name before the lead paragraph starts if that might complicate things. Could also be related to paragraph breaks seemingly having gotten bigger sometime last month? 93 (talk) 04:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is nothing to be done about this, one too many templates in a row, even empty will do this. The best you can do is pick one and move it up a line.
I question the value of at least one of those templates, and probably a second of them... Izno (talk) 04:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If one or all of these templates is edited to output a <nowiki /> tag, then the generated lines, after template expansion, will no longer be completely blank, and the parser will no longer see consecutive blank lines. This removes the white space. Tested by previewing User:John of Reading/X3 while editing Template:Use vanc name-list-style. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redlinked assessment categories, again[edit]

There's been a recurring issue at Special:WantedCategories with the "vital=" flag in a template autogenerating assessment categories that not only don't exist, but don't even seem to correspond to any established assessment queues at all.

For instance, "vital articles in Biology" is a thing that genuinely exists, while "vital articles in Biological and health sciences" is not, and yet things like Category:B-Class vital articles in Biological and health sciences, Category:Wikipedia level-5 vital articles in Biological and health sciences, Category:Start-Class vital articles in Biological and health sciences and Category:Wikipedia vital articles in Biological and health sciences have shown up as redlinks despite "biology" equivalents already existing for all three of those things — but I can find no trace of a reason why vital= is funnelling a random smattering of articles into "biological and health sciences" instead of "biology", even while funnelling most articles into "biology". I've redirected them all to their "biology" equivalents already, but the contents aren't moving.

And by the same token, "vital articles in Society" is a thing, while "Vital articles in society and social sciences" is not, but that didn't stop the generation of Category:B-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences, Category:List-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences, Category:Start-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences and Category:Unassessed vital articles in Society and social sciences.

But try as I might, I can't find hide nor hair of a reason why the vital= flag is filtering some articles into different categories than it filters other equivalent articles. Could somebody with more experience working with WikiProject templates look into this? Bearcat (talk) 17:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Heads up for all tool users[edit]

As noted above in #Toolforge Grid Engine shutdown, some old infrastructure which supports a lot of tools is getting shut down soon. Mostly this is of interest to people who maintain those tools, but it affects users too. Please take a look at the list of tools still running on Grid Engine. If you see any tools you depend on, this might be a good time to start bugging whoever maintains that tool to make sure it's going to get migrated to the new infrastructure called Kubernetes.

If you're interested in the technical details, you can read more on wikitech. For those of you who aren't into the technical details, all you really need to know is that if the people who maintain the tool you use aren't working on migrating it, you should be working on finding a different tool to use before the one you're using now goes away. The most recent report says there's 445 tools yet to be migrated. With 6 migrations in the previous week and about 10 weeks to go before the toolpocolypse, the math doesn't look good. RoySmith (talk) 17:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How are regular editors supposed to read that report and know whether a tool they rely on will break? It might be helpful for the Grid Engine administrators to schedule a planned multi-day or one-week outage between now and the drop-dead date, so that when tools break during that planned outage, we (1) know what still needs to be migrated and (2) still have access to the tools for a few weeks before they go away. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:10, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It looks like a serious step backwards in terms of tool availability. A wikiproject I work on has already been seriously hit by unmaintained tools stopping working due to internal database changes, and we'll be losing more soon when the useful columns are removed from the pagelinks table. Certes (talk) 19:19, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Unfortunately the wiki sites grow a lot and as such, things have to change every now and then, to keep everything working and maintainable. The tools are something with a lot of access to the internals of the software stack and are thus pretty vulnerable to breakage of these specific mentioned changes, especially if they are effectively orphaned tools. But that's not really what we have here, this is more a case of how tools are run, which for most tools shouldn't be too difficult to fix (the biggest problem is likely with systems that were already shaky or that use a lot of external dependencies). If everyone pitches in, it's probably not going to be as bad as it looks right now. For instance, i've done a casual check of about 15 tools on that list, and about half aren't even working to begin with, so... —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:05, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's the 15 tools that we really rely on that I worry about, and I have no idea how to pick them out of the giant list. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:19, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You really rely on 15 tools (!). I started trying to compile a list of tools I recognized that would be affected, and gave up at around the letter "G" after realizing there would be too many to properly list. And the apocalypse is in one week (when "Any maintainer who has not responded on phabricator will have tools shutdown and crontabs commented out"), not 10 weeks. And it will be bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pppery (talkcontribs) 20:53, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Triangles in Special:Watchlist too big and pointing wrong way[edit]

WP:ITSTHURSDAY I imagine. If you set your watchlist settings just right, each page's revisions will be collapsed until you click on a triangle. At that point the triangle will go from facing down to facing right, and the page's revisions will go from hidden to shown.

Anyway, this triangle recently doubled in size, and now always points down (won't point to the right when you click on it). This is on Vector and Vector 2022. Was not able to reproduce for Monobook.

The problem goes away in safemode, so the bug fix may need to be made in a local gadget related rather than MediaWiki core.

I suspect Vector changed the name or nesting of one of their elements, breaking our local gadget.

Files that might need repair (search for mw-enhancedchanges-arrow):

Novem Linguae (talk) 00:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No train today, but I think this series of edits is likely the cause. Will wait for someone else's opinion before reverting. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please don't. phab:T352456 fixed the watchlist display for me. There is an image in that task that shows how the arrows in my watchlist looked before the fix. Now uncollapsed watched items are marked by right-pointing arrows (much the same as collapsed categories on category pages). When uncollapsed, the watchlist arrows point down, again just like uncollapsed categories on category pages.
For me: chrome current, win10; at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist: Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent, Use non-JavaScript interface; at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets: Display green collapsible arrows and green bullets for changed pages in your watchlist, page history and recent changes (unavailable with the improved Watchlist user interface); all are checked.
Trappist the monk (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, I noticed this last Thursday, but I sometimes I tire of reporting bugs that never get fixed and have to go lie on my fainting couch for a while. Both the arrow direction and the uneven vertical alignment are fixed today. Thanks for reporting it, Trappist. Happy Thursday! – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:06, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]