Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of prime ministers of Australia/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 21 December 2022 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of prime ministers of Australia[edit]

List of prime ministers of Australia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 09:25, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have expanded and improved on the lead section, added citations for much of it, and moved around sentences. Australia is one of the few prominent countries whose list of leaders is not featured, so I am taking it here. Please ping me if you have any queries or requests. Thanks, JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 09:25, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

  • Lead looks weird with the image at the left and the TOC forced to the upper right. Any reason for this?
The TOC was in the right when it started working on it, so I didn't change that. I have fixed that.
OK, now the TOC is being forced into the text of the lead, causing some sandwiching issues - why not just let it sit where it would go naturally? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:24, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have fixed that. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 09:11, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "however the Prime Minister is still appointed by the Governor-General [....] which empowers the governor-general" - inconsistent capitalisation
Fixed.
  • So the PM chooses the G-G, who appoints the PM who chose him? Have I understood that correctly?
@ChrisTheDude: Drive-by reply. I think they follow a similar system as the UK so the PM is appointed by the Queen (or in this case her representative the Governor General) if they command the support of parliament. The Governor-General is appointed by the Queen on the recommendation of ministers. They don't have a fixed term but generally serve for about 5 years, the current one was nominated by the previous PM Scott Morrison. Cowlibob (talk) 21:51, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that makes sense, but at present the wording reads like the Governor-General appoints the PM, who then selects the Governor-General who appointed them in the first place. Does that make sense? Is there a way to re-word to avoid this suggestion of a paradox.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:28, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unsure as what to do. To make it clear to you, the Queen technically selects the Governor-General, however the Prime Minister actually selects them and sends that to the Queen. I don't know how to make it clearer in the article, perhaps someone can give a suggestion? JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 09:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: Maybe the following suggestion with supporting refs of course. "The role of Prime Minister is not mentioned in the Constitution of Australia, however the Prime Minister is still appointed by the Governor-General who under Section 64 of the constitution has the executive power to appoint ministers of state. The Governor-General is appointed by the Queen of Australia based on the advice of the Prime Minister. They do not have a fixed term but generally serve for five years." Cowlibob (talk) 17:32, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great way to put it. Inserted into article with an extra citation for the last part. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:18, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "however, of those who have served as the nation's prime minister, three died in office" - I think all the words between the commas here are redundant
Fixed, that was a result of moving sentences around to fit better.
  • "six resigned following leadership spills (John Gorton, Bob Hawke, Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott, and Malcolm Turnbull)" - Hawke and Rudd are randomly not linked here (although I have now noticed that both are linked the second time they are mentioned
Not sure what happened there, fixed.
  • "(Joseph Cook in 1914, Gough Whitlam in 1975, whose dismissal caused a constitutional crisis, and Malcolm Fraser in 1983)" - Whitlam randomly not linked
Fixed.
  • All the people who are mentioned multiple times in the lead should probably just be referred to by their surname on the second mention per MOS:SURNAME
Fixed.
  • "The prime ministership of Frank Forde, who was Prime Minister for 8 days in 1945" => "The prime ministership of Frank Forde, who was Prime Minister for eight days in 1945"
  • The table says he served for seven days, not eight
Fixed.
  • Source for note a?
Fixed.
@ChrisTheDude: Thanks for your feedback; all fixed! JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 06:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: I think I've fixed all of your suggestions, if you have anything else, please let me know. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 03:31, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The photo of the Lodge is low quality and a bad crop, can we find another? Maybe one of multiple prime ministers together GeebaKhap (talk) 07:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @GeebaKhap: Got a better quality image from the same source and updated the image. I don't know why it was cropped in that way, but that is fixed now. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 22:10, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

  • The forced with "width:100%" in the table isn't necessary and adds white space, including around the portraits.
That was how it was when I started working, reduced to 60%.
  • "with thirty-one people serving in the position since the office was created in 1901" is weird to have as a subordinate clause; just have it as its own sentence.
Done.
  • Replace however with but in the second sentence (currently a comma splice)
Done.
  • "the length of time a Parliament serves for" may be better as "the length of time a Parliament is elected for"
Done.
  • The second paragraph is a bit weird in that it's worded to give all the exceptions to when PMs didn't serve for three years. This misses Deacon's first term of 216 days, Watson's 113 day term, Reid, Deakon's second, Hughes, Bruce, Scullin, and others whose terms are also not multiples of three years. I think it'd be better to present the reasons for leaving on their own.
I added a group for the first few, the others either happened due to being the winner or loser in a spill or had other weird exits happen that don't fit in with anything else. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:38, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The non-consecutive terms are irrelevant to the current officeholder; why are these statements combined with a semicolon?
Done.
  • It says Menzies served two terms, but didn't he serve eight, even if not consecutive?
Reworded to say 'over two non-consecutive periods'.
  • Columns need to be made sortable
Done.
  • Please avoid WP:SMALLTEXT. There's no need to shrink the dates or ministries.
@Reywas92: There are quite a few examples of smalltext on the page. Should just the dates and ministries be enlarged or the electorates as well? JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 03:29, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Reywas92: I've removed all of the smalltext, except in a few places where it should be kept. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 22:32, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reywas92Talk 22:14, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sent the former to AFD, and proposed a merger for the latter. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 03:22, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
AFD has closed as keep. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 06:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done some of them, will do a bit more later. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:26, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All done, as far as I can tell. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 22:32, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB)[edit]

  • Tables need captions, which allow screen reader software to jump straight to named tables without having to read out all of the text before it each time. Visual captions can be added by putting |+ caption_text as the first line of the table code; if that caption would duplicate a nearby section header, you can make it screen-reader-only by putting |+ {{sronly|caption_text}} instead.
Done. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 06:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tables need column scopes for all column header cells, which in combination with row scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. You're mostly good here, with the !scope=col in each header cell, but if the cell spans multiple columns with a colspan, then use !scope=colgroup instead.
Done. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 06:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tables need row scopes on the "primary" column for each row, which in combination with column scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Row scopes can be added by adding !scope=row to each primary cell, e.g. | align="center" |Sir [[Edmund Barton]] becomes !scope=row align="center" |Sir [[Edmund Barton]], and you'll need to make that cell be on its own line in the wikicode (because of the !). If the cell spans multiple rows with a rowspan, then use !scope=rowgroup instead. Normally the first cell of each row is the "header", but the way you split Billy Hughes into three rows makes that dicey.
@PresN: However I am doing is not working, diff [2]. Can you possibly have a look and tell me what I'm doing incorrectly. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 06:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Like this. --PresN 12:58, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for doing that! JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 22:23, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't usually deal with colors, but some of these background color/text color are not accessible- the white on fluorescent green is particularly unreadable, but the white on light blue for the Fusion Liberal Party is also no good. [3] says that just flipping the text to black, if you must have that color green and pale blue, would be fine.
Done. I've left the colours as they are besides the text, as those colours are defined in a template and are used for the parties in other locations. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 06:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, consider doing what List of presidents of the United States did for this issue, and make the colors be a bar inside of the "party" column instead of a background to the first "number" cell; this would also let you make the first cell of each row be the row header.
  • Please see MOS:DTAB for example table code if this isn't clear. I don't return to these reviews until the nomination is ready to close, so ping me if you have any questions. --PresN 01:10, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from AK[edit]

  • Link governor-general.
  • "full length of their unless they lose the majority" → Full length of their what?
  • Lots of duplinks in the lead (House of Representatives, Deakin, Fisher)
  • "the Guardian" in the refs should have "The" capitalized.
  • The 44th Parliament now has an article and should be linked.
  • Should the publishers be Museum of Australian Democracy in place of apm-origin.moadoph.gov.au and Parliamentary Education Office instead of peo.gov.au.?
  • That's all I got. AryKun (talk) 16:27, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @AryKun: All done! JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 06:32, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, support on the basis of prose from me. AryKun (talk) 08:49, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This list has been sitting here too long without sufficient reviews; I'm going to review it myself and the close the nomination. I found two points of concern: a recent edit undid some of the above citation changes; I've reverted. The accessibility changes were also undone... by the same editor, actually. What a hassle. I've reverted that as well. Other than that, source review passed, promoting. --PresN 18:22, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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