Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/MLS Cup 1996/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 19 November 2019 [1].

MLS Cup 1996[edit]

Nominator(s): SounderBruce 02:31, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's almost playoffs season for Major League Soccer, so I thought it would be appropriate to try and bring the first-ever MLS Cup to featured status. The pitch was soggy from storms trailing a hurricane and had strong winds, but it didn't stop D.C. United from taking the first of seven trophies that they won during their run of dominance at the turn of the millennium. This article was expanded a few months ago and passed GAN in August, and relies heavily on newspaper coverage. SounderBruce 02:31, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski[edit]

  • Could we get a little bit more overview at the start of the lede? Currently it says MLS Cup 1996 was the inaugural edition of the MLS Cup, the championship match of Major League Soccer (MLS), which took place on October 20, 1996. It was hosted at Foxboro Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts, and contested by D.C. United and the Los Angeles Galaxy to decide the champion of the 1996 season. – this doesn't mention it was an association football match. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Added a bit to the lead sentence.
  • In general, the lede is a little thin. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm unsure what else the lead needs without being filler.
  • Just for clarification, should it be "semi-final", or "semifinal"? I thought it was the former. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • In American English, it's usually not hyphenated. The league itself refers to the round as the "Conference Semifinal" (actually the quarterfinal in the bracket).
  • win-loss – There is an article on Winning percentage which could be linked here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed.
  • 34,643 of the 42,368 - do we need to be so specific with the numbers for the lede? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Rounded up the lead figure, added a precise figure in the body; I won't touch the actual announced attendance figure because it's standard to leave it formatted as such.
General comments
  • Foxboro Stadium in the Boston suburb of Foxborough, Massachusetts, was announced as the venue of the inaugural MLS Cup during a league press conference on August 29, 1996, beating out the other finalist, RFK Memorial Stadium in Washington, D.C., which was instead prioritized for the 1997 edition. - split this sentence Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:23, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed.
  • The league had planned to downsize Foxboro Stadium - could just be "The stadium", it's clear which one we are referring to. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:23, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed.
  • We refer to the MLS Cup, but later explain what the MLS is. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:23, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Road to the final section has a description of the league's structure, which is more than other football cup final FAs provide. I think the description and links are sufficient for a reader that is looking for this kind of niche topic. SounderBruce 03:56, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Overall

It's a good article, will add more content here when I get some time.

Good article - Happy to support. Only issue I found was the captions for the first two images both saying "inaugural season", which is mentioned a lot in the article. I don't feel it's needed for this images. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:35, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Kosack[edit]

Venue

  • "The league had planned to the stadium to 33,000 seats for the championship", something missing from this sentence.
    • Fixed.

Road to the final

  • "consisted of ten teams organized into two conferences", may be worth mentioning that they were based on geographical location.
    • Added links to the conference entries.

D.C. United

  • "who signed former Virginia Cavaliers coach Bruce Arena as its manager", the mix of plural/singular with who and its reads a bit oddly to me.
    • Fixed, and will look out for other mixes. American English is weird about the plural/singular rule with regard to sports teams.
  • "D.C. clinched a playoff berth", you've already stated this two sentences earlier in the third paragraph. Could just start the new paragraph with "In the playoffs..."
    • Fixed.
  • "whose appearance required a referee decision on the ordering of kick-takers", I feel like this leaves more questions than answers and I can't access the sources to clarify it either.
    • Added a sentence explaining the situation.
  • Could link ejection to Ejection (sports) as it's not a common term outside the U.S., certainly not in association football.
    • Done.

Los Angeles Galaxy

  • "formerly of the U.S. national team, was hired as the first head coach of the team", double use of team is a little repetitive perhaps.
    • Fixed.
  • "including defender Robin Fraser, midfielder Jorge Salcedo, and defender Curt Onalfo", perhaps grouping the defenders together to avoid reusing defender? So along the lines of, "including defenders Robin Fraser and Curt Onalfo and midfielder Jorge Salcedo"?
    • Fixed.
  • Link Rose Bowl?
    • Done.
  • Could probably drop Hurtado's first name from the third paragraph given we've had it twice in this section already.
    • Done.

Summary

  • "Game 1 of the World Series", might be worth adding "Major League Baseball's" or "baseball's" to this as not everyone will know what the World Series is.
    • Added.

Details

  • The match report appears to have expired.
    • Fixed the link.
  • Might be worth adding inline citations for match officials otherwise there's no obvious sign where they come from.
    • Added.

Post-match

  • Worth pointing out which trophy is the MLS Cup in the image caption. Especially given we don't have an image of the trophy elsewhere.
    • Can't tell which of the two 1990s trophies is for the 1996 cup, but I did try to describe it in the caption.

A few points I noted on an initial run through. A nice article overall. Kosack (talk) 12:20, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I have addressed all the points you brought up. SounderBruce 20:26, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
One further point I noticed, the term extra-time is used in the infobox and the match details section but overtime is the only term used in the prose. Is there a reason for the difference? Kosack (talk) 12:21, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The standard seems to be extra time, but overtime is more common (especially with the wackier MLS rules of yore). Switching them over now. SounderBruce 06:04, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to support this. A high quality read and I believe it's of FA standard, nice work. As an aside, I have a football related FAC ongoing, Ninian Park, that could do with a few more reviews if you or any other editor is able to take a look. Kosack (talk) 06:24, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • "but conceded two goals in the second half to force overtime play." Seems like the last word doesn't add much and could safely be chopped.
    • Chopped.
  • Venue: "The other finalist, RFK Memorial Stadium in Washington, D.C., which was instead prioritized for the 1997 edition." For the sentence to work grammatically, "which" needs to be removed.
    • Fixed.
  • D.C. United: "until the winning goal from Peter Vermes. Vermes...". Try not to have the name repeat from the end of one sentence to the start of another like this.
    • Fixed.
  • Summary: "Game 1 of Major League Baseball's World Series, which was being played on the same night in Boston, was canceled." Um, the Red Sox didn't play in the 1996 World Series. This sentence needs to be removed entirely.
    • I mis-read the source; the same rainstorm had caused a cancellation, and I think it's worth including as it was affecting both league championships.
  • It's better if possible to not have a sentence start with a numeral like 42,368. This is also present in the lead, so that needs a fix as well.
    • Fixed both.
  • Post-match: "but were defeated 3–5 in the final...". Don't think the loser's score should be given first, since that style isn't used elsewhere in the article. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Giants2008: Thanks for the review. I have addressed the issues you pointed out above. SounderBruce 06:04, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Support – All of my comments have been adequately addressed, and I think the article meets the FA criteria. Nice work. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:09, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review[edit]

I think it's inevitable with sports articles, especially those dealing with a specific fixture, that there will be heavy reliance on newspaper articles, because that's where the stuff is largely found, and where the books, if they appear, get most of their detail from. So I don't see that as an issue here. The refs are almost immaculately presented – I say "almost", because I found a couple of nits to pick:

  • In ref 25, "The Washington Times" should be linked
  • In ref 79, "Orange County Register" is linked earlier.

Links to sources are all working per the checker tool, so that's about it, really. Brianboulton (talk) 19:13, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Brianboulton: Both issues have been fixed. Indeed there isn't a great selection of MLS books at the time of writing, but I did pick up one that went beyond what the newspapers of the time covered. SounderBruce 19:21, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes[edit]

Image review? --Laser brain (talk) 00:45, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Excluding the kits:
ALT text seems so-so to me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:04, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by Kaiser matias[edit]

  • "The MLS Cup had an attendance of 34,643 spectators, falling short of the 42,000 people who paid for tickets, and included a large contingent of traveling D.C. supporters." The word order here feels off to me. I'm inclined to note the 42,000 first (ex. "42,000 tickets were sold, with 34,643 attending) but it then leads to questions of why roughly 8,000 tickets went unused. Is there any reason why so many tickets were sold but not used?
    • The order was suggested by another reviewer above. The sold tickets going unused is likely a direct result of the weather forecast.
      • Understood. I'm guessing there is no way to note this without going into WP:OR, so all good.
  • "...which signed former Virginia Cavaliers coach Bruce Arena as its manager in January 1996." Should note that the Virginia Cavaliers are from the university, as the current wording implies it is a club.
    • Fixed.
  • "Pope celebrated the championship-winning golden goal..." and "...scored the winning golden goal in the 94th minute". Isn't it redundant to have "winning" and "golden goal"? I'll admit my soccer terminology is not too strong, so if that's acceptable please say so.
    • It's not a familiar concept to some, so I think it is fine to be redundant here.
      • Fair enough. Works for me.

Not a lot really, and will be glad to support once the above are addressed. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:52, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@SounderBruce: Progress on these? --Laser brain (talk) 13:35, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I didn't manage to see this earlier. I'll be able to ban he the changes within a few days when I return home. SounderBruce 19:57, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Kaiser matias: Thanks for the review. I've fixed one thing and answered your two other queries. SounderBruce 03:54, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nice, I'm happy to support now. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:50, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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