User talk:SMcCandlish

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As of 2023-06-02 , SMcCandlish is Busy.
I might check Wikipedia, but I won't be actively participating or editing until ... indefinitely? (I'm on occasionally but may disappear for days or longer).

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Old stuff to resolve eventually[edit]

Cueless billiards[edit]

Unresolved
 – Can't get at the stuff at Ancestry; try using addl. cards.
Extended content

Categories are not my thing but do you think there are enough articles now or will be ever to make this necessary? Other than Finger billiards and possibly Carrom, what else is there?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:12, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Crud fits for sure. And if the variant in it is sourceable, I'm sure some military editor will fork it into a separate article eventually. I think at least some variants of bar billiards are played with hands and some bagatelle split-offs probably were, too (Shamos goes into loads of them, but I get them all mixed up, mostly because they have foreign names). And there's bocce billiards, article I've not written yet. Very fun game. Kept my sister and I busy for 3 hours once. Her husband (Air Force doctor) actually plays crud on a regular basis; maybe there's a connection. She beat me several times, so it must be from crud-playing. Hand pool might be its own article eventually. Anyway, I guess it depends upon your "categorization politics". Mine are pretty liberal - I like to put stuff into a logical category as long as there are multiple items for it (there'll be two as soon as you're done with f.b., since we have crud), and especially if there are multiple parent categories (that will be the case here), and especially especially if the split parallels the category structure of another related category branch (I can't think of a parallel here, so this criterion of mine is not a check mark in this case), and so on. A bunch of factors really. I kind of wallow in that stuff. Not sure why I dig the category space so much. Less psychodrama, I guess. >;-) In my entire time here, I can only think of maybe one categorization decision I've made that got nuked at CfD. And I'm a pretty aggressive categorizer, too; I totally overhauled Category:Pinball just for the heck of it and will probably do the same to Category:Darts soon.
PS: I'm not wedded to the "cueless billiards" name idea; it just seemed more concise than "cueless developments from cue sports" or whatever.— SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 11:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have no "categorization politics". It's not an area that I think about a lot or has ever interested me so it's good there are people like you. If there is to be a category on this, "cueless billiards" seems fine to me. By the way, just posted Yank Adams as an adjunct to the finger billiards article I started.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:57, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cool; I'd never even heard of him. This one looks like a good DYK; just the fact that there was Finger Billiards World Championship contention is funky enough, probably. You still citing that old version of Shamos? You really oughta get the 1999 version; it can be had from Amazon for cheap and has a bunch of updates. I actually put my old version in the recycle bin as not worth saving. Heh. PS: You seen Stein & Rubino 3rd ed.? I got one for the xmas before the one that just passed, from what was then a really good girlfriend. >;-) It's a-verra, verra nahce. Over 100 new pages, I think (mostly illustrations). — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 13:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If I happen to come across it in a used book store I might pick it up. There's nothing wrong with citing the older edition (as I've said to you before). I had not heard of Adams before yesterday either. Yank is apparently not his real name, though I'm not sure what it is yet. Not sure there will be enough on him to make a DYK (though don't count it out). Of course, since I didn't userspace it, I have 4½ days to see. Unfortunately, I don't have access to ancestry.com and have never found any free database nearly as useful for finding newspaper articles (and census, birth certificates, and reams of primary source material). I tried to sign up for a free trial again which worked once before, but they got smart and are logging those who signed up previously. I just looked; the new Stein and Rubino is about $280. I'll work from the 2nd edition:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:16, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmm... I haven't tried Ancestry in a while. They're probably logging IP addresses. That would definitely affect me, since mine doesn't change except once every few years. I guess that's what libraries and stuff are for. S&R: Should be available cheaper. Mine came with the Blue Book of Pool Cues too for under $200 total. Here it is for $160, plus I think the shipping was $25. Stein gives his e-mail address as that page. If you ask him he might give you the 2-book deal too, or direct you to where ever that is. Shamos: Not saying its an unreliable source (although the newer version actually corrected some entries), it's just cool because it has more stuff in it. :-) DYK: Hey, you could speedily delete your own article, sandbox it and come back. Heh. Seriously, I'll see if I can get into Ancestry again and look for stuff on him. I want to look for William Hoskins stuff anyway so I can finish that half of the Spinks/Hoskins story, which has sat in draft form for over a year. I get sidetracked... — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 14:29, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's not IPs they're logging, it's your credit card. You have to give them one in order to get the trial so that they can automatically charge you if you miss the cancellation deadline. Regarding the Blue Book, of all these books, that's the one that get's stale, that is, if you use it for actual quotes, which I do all the time, both for answer to questions and for selling, buying, etc. Yeah I start procrastinating too. I did all that work on Mingaud and now I can't get myself to go back. I also did reams of research on Hurricane Tony Ellin (thugh I found so little; I really felt bad when he died; I met him a few times, seemed like a really great guy), Masako Katsura and others but still haven't moved on them.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, the credit card. I'll have to see if the PayPal plugin has been updated to work with the new Firefox. If so, that's our solution - it generates a new valid card number every time you use it (they always feed from your single PayPal account). — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 18:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
PayPal Plugin ist kaput. Some banks now issue credit card accounts that make use of virtual card numbers, but mine's not one of them. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 19:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for trying. It was worth a shot. I signed up for a newspaperarchive.com three month trial. As far as newspaper results go it seems quite good so far, and the search interface is many orders of magnitude better than ancestry's, but it has none of the genealogical records that ancestry provides. With ancestry I could probably find census info on Yank as well as death information (as well as for Masako Katsura, which I've been working on it for a few days; she could actually be alive, though she'd be 96).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:52, 9 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sad...[edit]

How well forgotten some very well known people are. The more I read about Yank Adams, the more I realize he was world famous. Yet, he's almost completely unknown today and barely mentioned even in modern billiard texts.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:47, 21 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Reading stuff from that era, it's also amazing how important billiards (in the three-ball sense) was back then, with sometimes multiple-page stories in newspapers about each turn in a long match, and so on. It's like snooker is today in the UK. PS: I saw that you found evidence of a billiards stage comedy there. I'd never heard of it! — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 15:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Jackpot. Portrait, diagrams, sample shot descriptions and more (that will also lend itself to the finger billiards article).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nice find! — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 06:07, 27 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some more notes on Crystalate[edit]

Unresolved
 – New sources/material worked into article, but unanswered questions remain.
Extended content

Some more notes: they bought Royal Worcester in 1983 and sold it the next year, keeping some of the electronics part.[3]; info about making records:[4]; the chair in 1989 was Lord Jenkin of Roding:[5]; "In 1880, crystalate balls made of nitrocellulose, camphor, and alcohol began to appear. In 1926, they were made obligatory by the Billiards Association and Control Council, the London-based governing body." Amazing Facts: The Indispensable Collection of True Life Facts and Feats. Richard B. Manchester - 1991wGtDHsgbtltnpBg&ct=result&id=v0m-h4YgKVYC&dq=%2BCrystalate; a website about crystalate and other materials used for billiard balls:No5 Balls.html. Fences&Windows 23:37, 12 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks! I'll have to have a look at this stuff in more detail. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 15:54, 16 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've worked most of it in. Fences&Windows 16:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cool! From what I can tell, entirely different parties held the trademark in different markets. I can't find a link between Crystalate Mfg. Co. Ltd. (mostly records, though billiard balls early on) and the main billiard ball mfr. in the UK, who later came up with "Super Crystalate". I'm not sure the term was even used in the U.S. at all, despite the formulation having been originally patented there. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 21:04, 17 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:SAL[edit]

Unresolved
 – Not done yet, last I looked.
Extended content

No one has actually objected to the idea that it's really pointless for WP:SAL to contain any style information at all, other than in summary form and citing MOS:LIST, which is where all of WP:SAL's style advice should go, and SAL page should move back to WP:Stand-alone lists with a content guideline tag. Everyone who's commented for 7 months or so has been in favor of it. I'd say we have consensus to start doing it. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ   Contrib. 13:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'll take a look at the page shortly. Thanks for the nudge. SilkTork ✔Tea time 23:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You post at Wikipedia talk:FAQ/Copyright[edit]

Unresolved
 – Need to fix William A. Spinks, etc., with proper balkline stats, now that we know how to interpret them.
Extended content

That page looks like a hinterland (you go back two users in the history and you're in August). Are you familiar with WP:MCQ? By the way, did you see my response on the balkline averages?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:54, 6 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah, I did a bunch of archiving yesterday. This page was HUGE. It'll get there again. I'd forgotten MCQ existed. Can you please add it to the DAB hatnote at top of and "See also" at bottom of WP:COPYRIGHT? Its conspicuous absence is precisely why I ened up at Wikipedia talk:FAQ/Copyright! Haven't seen your balkline response yet; will go look. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 21:34, 6 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hee Haw[edit]

Unresolved
 – Still need to propose some standards on animal breed article naming and disambiguation. In the intervening years, we've settled on natural not parenthetic disambiguation, and that standardized breeds get capitalized, but that's about it.
Extended content

Yeah, we did get along on Donkeys. And probably will get along on some other stuff again later. Best way to handle WP is to take it issue by issue and then let bygones be bygones. I'm finding some interesting debates over things like the line between a subspecies, a landrace and a breed. Just almost saw someone else's GA derailed over a "breed versus species" debate that was completely bogus, we just removed the word "adapt" and life would have been fine. I'd actually be interested in seeing actual scholarly articles that discuss these differences, particularly the landrace/breed issue in general, but in livestock in particular, and particularly as applied to truly feral/landrace populations (if, in livestock, there is such a thing, people inevitably will do a bit of culling, sorting and other interference these days). I'm willing to stick to my guns on the WPEQ naming issue, but AGF in all respects. Truce? Montanabw(talk) 22:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Truce, certainly. I'm not here to pick fights, just improve the consistency for readers and editors. I don't think there will be any scholarly articles on differences between landrace and breed, because there's nothing really to write about. Landrace has clear definitions in zoology and botany, and breed not only doesn't qualify, it is only established as true in any given case by reliable sources. Basically, no one anywhere is claiming "This is the Foobabaz horse, and it is a new landrace!" That wouldn't make sense. What is happening is people naming and declaring new alleged breeds on an entirely self-interested, profit-motive basis, with no evidence anyone other than the proponent and a few other experimental breeders consider it a breed. WP is full of should-be-AfD'd articles of this sort, like the cat one I successfully prod'ed last week. Asking for a reliable source that something is a landrace rather than a breed is backwards; landrace status is the default, not a special condition. It's a bit like asking for a scholarly piece on whether pig Latin is a real language or not; no one's going to write a journal paper about that because "language" (and related terms like "dialect", "language family", "creole" in the linguistic sense, etc.) have clear definitions in linguistics, while pig Latin, an entirely artificial, arbitrary, intentionally-managed form of communication (like an entirely artificial, arbitrary, intentionally managed form of domesticated animal) does not qualify. :-) The "what is a breed" question, which is also not about horses any more than cats or cavies or ferrets, is going to be a separate issue to resolve from the naming issue. Looking over what we collaboratively did with donkeys – and the naming form that took, i.e. Poitou donkey not Poitou (donkey), I think I'm going to end up on your side of that one. It needs to be discussed more broadly in an RFC, because most projects use the parenthetical form, because this is what WT:AT is most readily interpretable as requiring. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 00:12, 7 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I hate the drama of an RfC, particularly when we can just look at how much can be naturally disambiguated, but if you think it's an actual issue, I guess ping me when it goes up. As for landcraces, it may be true ("clear definitions") but you would be doing God's (or someone's) own good work if you were to improve landrace which has few references, fewer good ones, and is generally not a lot of help to those of us trying to sort out WTF a "landrace" is... (smiles). As for breed, that is were we disagree: At what point do we really have a "breed" as opposed to a "landrace?" Fixed traits, human-selected? At what degree, at which point? How many generations? I don't even know if there IS such a thing as a universal definition of what a "breed" is: seriously: [6] or breed or [7]. I think you and I agree that the Palomino horse can never be a "breed" because it is impossible for the color to breed true (per an earlier discussion) so we have one limit. But while I happen agree to a significant extent with your underlying premise that when Randy from Boise breeds two animals and says he has created a new breed and this is a problem, (I think it's a BIG problem in the worst cases) but if we want to get really fussy, I suppose that the aficionados of the Arabian horse who claim the breed is pure from the dawn of time are actually arguing it is a landrace, wouldn't you say? And what DO we do with the multi-generational stuff that's in limbo land? Montanabw(talk) 00:41, 7 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not really certain what the answers are to any of those questions, another reason (besides your "STOP!" demands :-) that I backed away rapidly from moving any more horse articles around. But it's something that is going to have to be looked into. I agree that the Landrace article here is poor. For one thing, it needs to split Natural breed out into its own article (a natural breed is a selectively-bred formal breed the purpose of which is to refine and "lock-in" the most definitive qualities of a local landrace). This in turn isn't actually the same thing as a traditional breed, though the concepts are related. Basically, three breeding concepts are squished into one article. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 00:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Side comment: I tend to support one good overview article over three poor content forks, just thinking aloud... Montanabw(talk) 23:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sure; the point is that the concepts have to be separately, clearly treated, because they are not synonymous at all. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 02:07, 8 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Given that the article isn't well-sourced yet, I think that you might want to add something about that to landrace now, just to give whomever does article improvement on it later (maybe you, I think this is up your alley!) has the "ping" to do so. Montanabw(talk) 21:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Aye, it's on my to-do list. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 22:25, 8 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Although I have been an evolutionary biologist for decades, I only noticed the term "landrace" within the past year or two (in reference to corn), because I work with wildland plants. But I immediately knew what it was, from context. I'm much less certain about breeds, beyond that I am emphatic that they are human constructs. Montanabw and I have discussed my horse off-wiki, and from what I can tell, breeders are selecting for specific attributes (many people claim to have seen a horse "just like him"), but afaik there is no breed "Idaho stock horse". Artificially-selected lineages can exist without anyone calling them "breeds"; I'm not sure they would even be "natural breeds", and such things are common even within established breeds (Montanabw could probably explain to us the difference between Polish and Egyptian Arabians).
The good thing about breeds wrt Wikipedia is that we can use WP:RS and WP:NOTABLE to decide what to cover. Landraces are a different issue: if no one has ever called a specific, distinctive, isolated mustang herd a landrace, is it OR for Wikipedia to do so?--Curtis Clark (talk) 16:21, 7 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have been reluctant to use landrace much out of a concern that the concept is a bit OR, as I hadn't heard of it before wikipedia either (but I'm more a historian than an evolutionary biologist, so what do I know?): Curtis, any idea where this did come from? It's a useful concept, but I am kind of wondering where the lines are between selective breeding and a "natural" breed -- of anything. And speaking of isolated Mustang herds, we have things like Kiger Mustang, which is kind of interesting. I think that at least some of SMc's passion comes from the nuttiness seen in a lot of the dog and cat breeders these days, am I right? I mean, Chiweenies? Montanabw(talk) 23:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The first use of the word that I saw referred to different landraces of corn growing in different elevations and exposures in indigenous Maya areas of modern Mexico. I haven't tracked down the references for the use of the word, but the concept seems extremely useful. My sense is that landraces form as much through natural selective processes of cultivation or captivity as through human selection, so that if the "garbage wolf" hypothesis for dog domestication is true, garbage wolves would have been a landrace (or more likely several, in different areas). One could even push the definition and say that MRSA is a landrace. But I don't have enough knowledge of the reliable sources to know how all this would fit into Wikipedia.--Curtis Clark (talk) 01:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Landraces form, primarily and quickly, through mostly natural selection, long after domestication. E.g. the St Johns water dog and Maine Coon cat are both North American landraces that postdate European arrival on the continent. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 20:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see some potential for some great research on this and a real improvement to the articles in question. Montanabw(talk) 21:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yep. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 20:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redundant sentence?[edit]

Unresolved
 – Work to integrate WP:NCFLORA and WP:NCFAUNA stuff into MOS:ORGANISMS not completed yet? Seems to be mostly done, other than fixing up the breeds section, after that capitalization RfC a while back.
Extended content

The sentence at MOS:LIFE "General names for groups or types of organisms are not capitalized except where they contain a proper name (oak, Bryde's whales, rove beetle, Van cat)" is a bit odd, since the capitalization would (now) be exactly the same if they were the names of individual species. Can it simply be removed?

There is an issue, covered at Wikipedia:PLANTS#The use of botanical names as common names for plants, which may or may not be worth putting in the main MOS, namely cases where the same word is used as the scientific genus name and as the English name, when it should be de-capitalized. I think this is rare for animals, but more common for plants and fungi (although I have seen "tyrannosauruses" and similar uses of dinosaur names). Peter coxhead (talk) 09:17, 3 May 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  1. I would leave it a alone for now; let people get used to the changes. I think it's reasonable to include the "general names" thing, because it's a catch-all that includes several different kinds of examples, that various largely different groups of people are apt to capitalize. Various know-nothings want to capitalize things like "the Cats", the "Great Apes", etc., because they think "it's a Bigger Group and I like to Capitalize Big Important Stuff". There are millions more people who just like to capitalize nouns and stuff. "Orange's, $1 a Pound". Next we have people who insist on capitalizing general "types" and landraces of domestic animals ("Mountain Dogs", "Van Cat") because they're used to formal breed names being capitalized (whether to do that with breeds here is an open question, but it should not be done with types/classes of domestics, nor with landraces. Maybe the examples can be sculpted better: "the roses", "herpesviruses", "great apes", "Bryde's whale", "mountain dogs", "Van cat", "passerine birds". I'm not sure that "rove beetle" and "oak" are good examples of anything. Anyway, it's more that the species no-capitalization is a special case of the more general rule, not that the general rule is a redundant or vague version of the former. If they're merged, it should keep the general examples, and maybe specifically spell out and illustrate that it also means species and subspecies, landraces and domestic "types", as well as larger and more general groupings.
  2. I had noticed that point and was going to add it, along with some other points from both NCFLORA and NCFAUNA, soon to MOS:ORGANISMS, which I feel is nearing "go live" completion. Does that issue come up often enough to make it a MOS mainpage point? I wouldn't really object to it, and it could be had by adding an "(even if it coincides with a capitalized Genus name)" parenthetical to the "general names" bit. The pattern is just common enough in animals to have been problematic if it were liable to be problematic, as it were. I.e., I don't see a history of squabbling about it at Lynx or its talk page, and remember looking into this earlier with some other mammal, about two weeks ago, and not seeing evidence of confusion or editwarring. The WP:BIRDS people were actually studiously avoiding that problem; I remember seeing a talk page discussion at the project that agreed that such usage shouldn't be capitalized ever. PS: With Lynx, I had to go back to 2006, in the thick of the "Mad Capitalization Epidemic" to find capitalization there[8], and it wasn't even consistent, just in the lead.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  11:11, 3 May 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  1. Well, certainly "rove beetle" and "oak" are poor examples here, so I would support changing to some of the others you suggested above.
  2. I think the main problem we found with plants was it being unclear as to whether inexperienced editors meant the scientific name or the English name. So you would see a sentence with e.g. "Canna" in the middle and not know whether this should be corrected to "Canna" or to "canna". The plural is clear; "cannas" is always lower-case non-italicized. The singular is potentially ambiguous. Whether it's worth putting this point in the main MOS I just don't know since I don't much edit animal articles and never breed articles, which is why I asked you. Peter coxhead (talk) 21:55, 3 May 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  1. Will take a look at that later, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
  2. Beats me. Doesn't seem too frequent an issue, but lot of MOS stuff isn't. Definitely should be in MOS:ORGANISMS, regardless.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  00:46, 4 May 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Worked on both of those a bit at MOS. We'll see if it sticks.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  01:18, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note to self on WP:WikiProject English language[edit]

Unresolved
 – I think I did MOST of this already ...
Extended content

Finish patching up WP:WikiProject English language with the stuff from User:SMcCandlish/WikiProject English Language, and otherwise get the ball rolling.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  20:22, 17 August 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Excellent mini-tutorial[edit]

Unresolved
Extended content

Somehow, I forget quite how, I came across this - that is an excellent summary of the distinctions. I often get confused over those, and your examples were very clear. Is something like that in the general MoS/citation documentation? Oh, and while I am here, what is the best way to format a citation to a page of a document where the pages are not numbered? All the guidance I have found says not to invent your own numbering by counting the pages (which makes sense), but I am wondering if I can use the 'numbering' used by the digitised form of the book. I'll point you to an example of what I mean: the 'book' in question is catalogued here (note that is volume 2) and the digitised version is accessed through a viewer, with an example of a 'page' being here, which the viewer calls page 116, but there are no numbers on the actual book pages (to confuse things further, if you switch between single-page and double-page view, funny things happen to the URLs, and if you create and click on a single-page URL the viewer seems to relocate you one page back for some reason). Carcharoth (talk) 19:10, 12 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Carcharoth: Thanks. I need to copy that into an essay page. As far as I know, the concepts are not clearly covered in any of those places, nor clearly enough even at Help:CS1 (which is dense and overlong as it is). The e-book matters bear some researching. I'm very curious whether particular formats (Nook, etc.) paginate consistently between viewers. For Web-accessible ones, I would think that the page numbering that appears in the Web app is good enough if it's consistent (e.g., between a PC and a smart phone) when the reader clicks the URL in the citation. I suppose one could also use |at= to provide details if the "page" has to be explained in some way. I try to rely on better-than-page-number locations when possible, e.g. specific entries in dictionaries and other works with multiple entries per page (numbered sections in manuals, etc.), but for some e-books this isn't possible – some are just continuous texts. One could probably use something like |at=in the paragraph beginning "The supersegemental chalcolithic metastasis is ..." about 40% into the document, in a pinch. I guess we do need to figure this stuff out since such sources are increasingly common.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  20:29, 13 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes (about figuring out how to reference e-books), though I suspect existing (non-WP) citation styles have addressed this already (no need to re-invent the wheel). This is a slightly different case, though. It is a digitisation of an existing (physical) book that has no page numbers. If I had the book in front of me (actually, it was only published as a single copy, so it is not a 'publication' in that traditional sense of many copies being produced), the problem with page numbers would still exist. I wonder if the 'digital viewer' should be thought of as a 'via' thingy? In the same way that (technically) Google Books and archive.org digital copies of old books are just re-transmitting, and re-distributing the material (is wikisource also a 'via' sort of thing?). Carcharoth (talk) 23:13, 13 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Carcharoth: Ah, I see. I guess I would treat it as a |via=, and same with WikiSource, which in this respect is essentially like Google Books or Project Gutenberg. I think your conundrum has come up various times with arXiv papers, that have not been paginated visibly except in later publication (behind a journal paywall and not examined). Back to the broader matter: Some want to treat WikiSource and even Gutenberg as republishers, but I think that's giving them undue editorial credit and splitting too fine a hair. Was thinking on the general unpaginated and mis-paginated e-sources matter while on the train, and came to the conclusion that for a short, unpaginated work with no subsections, one might give something like |at=in paragraph 23, and for a much longer one use the |at=in the paragraph beginning "..." trick. A straight up |pages=82–83 would work for an e-book with hard-coded meta-data pagination that is consistent between apps/platforms and no visual pagination. On the other hand, use the visual pagination in an e-book that has it, even if it doesn't match the e-book format's digital pagination, since the pagination in the visual content would match that of a paper copy; one might include a note that the pagination is that visible in the content if it conflicts with what the e-book reader says (this comes up a lot with PDFs, for one thing - I have many that include cover scans, and the PDF viewers treat that as p. 1, then other front matter as p. 2, etc., with the content's p. 1 being something like PDF p. 7).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  08:07, 14 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:MEDMOS[edit]

Unresolved
 – Go fix the WP:FOO shortcuts to MOS:FOO ones, to match practice at other MoS pages. This only applies to the MoS section there; like WP:SAL, part of that page is also a content guideline that should not have MOS: shortcuts.
Extended content

You had previously asked that protection be lowered on WP:MEDMOS which was not done at that time. I have just unprotected the page and so if you have routine update edits to make you should now be able to do so. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 06:42, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks. I don't remember what it was, but maybe it'll come back to me.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  12:17, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Now I remember.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:53, 11 February 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ooh...potential WikiGnoming activity...[edit]

Unresolved
 – Do some of this when I'm bored?
Extended content

@SMcCandlish:

I stumbled upon Category:Editnotices whose targets are redirects and there are ~100 pages whose pages have been moved, but the editnotices are still targeted to the redirect page. Seems like a great, and sort of fun, WikiGnoming activity for a template editor such as yourself. I'd do it, but I'm not a template editor. Not sure if that's really your thing, though. ;-)

Cheers,
--Doug Mehus T·C 22:30, 6 February 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Argh. I would've hoped some bot fixed that kind of stuff. I'll consider it, but it's a lot of work for low benefit (the page names may be wrong, but the redirs still get there), and it's been my experience that a lot of editnotices (especially in mainspace) are PoV-pushing crap that needs to be deleted anyway.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  07:20, 11 February 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm going to pass for the nonce, Dmehus. Working on some other project (more fun than WP is sometimes). I'll let it sit here with {{Unresolved}} on it, in case I get inspired to work on it some, but it might be a long time.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  07:46, 18 February 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note to self[edit]

Unresolved
 – Cquote stuff ...
Extended content

Don't forget to deal with: Template talk:Cquote#Template-protected edit request on 19 April 2020.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  14:48, 20 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Now this[edit]

Unresolved
 – Breed disambiguation again ...
Extended content

Not sure the ping went through, so noting here. Just spotted where a now-blocked user moved a bunch of animal breed articles back to parenthetical disambiguation from natural disambiguation. As they did it in October and I'm only catching it now, I only moved back two just in case there was some kind of consensus change. The equine ones are definitely against project consensus, the rest are not my wheelhouse but I'm glad to comment. Talk:Campine_chicken#Here_we_go_again. Montanabw(talk) 20:14, 25 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Montanabw: Argh. Well, this is easy to fix with a request to mass-revert undiscussed moves, at the subsection for that at WP:RMTR. Some admin will just fix it all in one swoop. While I have the PageMover bit, and could do it myself as a technical possibility, I would run afoul of WP:INVOLVED in doing so.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:30, 4 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Montanabw: Did this get fixed yet? If not, I can look into it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:13, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]




Current threads[edit]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

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Board of Trustees election[edit]

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Thank you for supporting the NPP initiative to improve WMF support of the Page Curation tools. Another way you can help is by voting in the Board of Trustees election. The next Board composition might be giving attention to software development. The election closes on 6 September at 23:59 UTC. View candidate statement videos and Vote Here. MB 04:04, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Christian Kälin[edit]

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Hi SMcCandlish. Would you mind settling a content issue at Talk:Christian Kälin#Unexplained removals of sourced content, WP:COATRACK additions? I see you're listed at Category:Wikipedians willing to provide third opinions, and you appear to be sensitive to BLP questions in general, so I thought you might be an appropriate and impartial editor to step in. For context, related disputes with the same editor have occurred at Talk:Henley & Partners#Major changes made without consensus a few months ago and, much more recently, at Talk:Christian Kälin#St Kitts edit reversed. (If you have reason to believe you would be biased in this discussion, please feel free to abstain - I want to be extra careful to avoid canvassing here, due to my COI.) Thanks! Sarah Nicklin (talk) 08:16, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sarah Nicklin: I've added some semi-detailed comments over there.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for weighing in. As it's been a week since you made your comments and no objections have been voiced, would you mind implementing your own proposed resolution? Sarah Nicklin (talk) 19:09, 12 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Christian Kälin follow-up[edit]

 Done

Hi SMcCandlish. In case you missed my follow-up comment up at User talk:SMcCandlish#Christian Kälin, I'll post here in a new section as well.

I appreciate that you took the time to comment at Talk:Christian Kälin following my initial inquiry here. As it's been over two weeks since you made your comments there, and no objections have been voiced, would you mind implementing your own proposed resolution? Thanks a lot! Sarah Nicklin (talk) 08:34, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sarah Nicklin: I'll have to think on this. I'm not sure of the propriety of providing a WP:3O and then just implementing it. Will need to look into that.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:05, 21 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. I'm not sure what other options exist, as my own ability to implement is limited by my COI, and no other editor is likely to get involved organically. It would be a shame for your well-articulated third opinion to have been given for nothing. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 12:21, 26 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi again - I hope you don't mind if I nudge you on this issue once more. I would be willing to implement your suggestions myself directly if you were to give me the green light, but it seems more appropriate for an uninvolved editor like you to do so. Does that make sense to you? Sarah Nicklin (talk) 14:14, 7 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, but I'm now an involved editor. I'll probably do it anyway, but on a non-busy day.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:48, 10 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you, much appreciated! Would it make sense to ask at the Teahouse or elsewhere if there is a less involved editor out there who would assist? I'm just not sure what other recourse there is in this kind of situation. Sarah Nicklin (talk) 07:14, 14 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sarah Nicklin: Given the lack of objection both at the article talk page and at Teahouse, I'm now comfortable implementing changes there, if you propose them in specifics I can just edit in. I'm too pressed for time to go digging in article history to re-assemble the material myself.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:15, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Finally got around to it all the other day.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:57, 10 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

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 – and converted it to an RM not an RfC, since it was a move request.
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Discussion at Talk:2023 Nigerian general election § Requested move 13 September 2022[edit]

 Done

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:2023 Nigerian general election § Requested move 13 September 2022. Watercheetah99 (talk) 19:10, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ACE[edit]

I've been thinking for a long time that non-admins should be encouraged to run for Arb. Why is that micro community of Arbcom regulars assuming that the broader community is not intelligent enough to vote on a well fleshed out RFC? Why do they want to nip the idea in the bud? Certainly some things need to be drastically changed at Arbcom, if not even deprecating it altogether and replacing it with something else. A major RFC can be launched any time. It won't be in time for this year's election but it does not need to wait until next year's ACE RFC. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:00, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What is the RFC question you have in mind?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  07:49, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
One about creating a couple of extra seats on Arbcom to filled with by non-admins who reach the pass mark. You commented there already. I think that crafted well, an RfC on such a major change would generate a lot of participation. Not sure which way it would go though. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:31, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi both. I've been watching the discussions on ACE with interest, as you may or may not know, I've long been a proponent of non-admins on Arbcom. Sounds great to me, any community member who passes the ACE should be eligible for the committee - it was the reason I ran as a non-admin in 2017, with the hope that it would remove the non-admin stigma. The idea of some sort of affirmative action to add non-admins to the committee, however, makes me extremely uncomfortable. It will encourage two separate communities, admin and non-admin and drive a wedge between them. It could easily discourage non-admins from applying to be admins.
Philosophically, I believe we are one community - non-admins, admins, arbs, we're all Wikipedians and anyone who volunteers and has sufficient trust amongst the community of Wikipedians should be part of the arbitration committee. I do not agree with the idea of someone who is empirically more trusted missing out on a seat on the committee to someone who is empirically less trusted. That is what the election is for.
Honestly, if I were to support some sort of affirmative action regarding the committee, it would be to push for representation that we don't have. That might be pushing for gender diversity, or geographical diversity, but pushing for diversity on Wikipedian admin status? I simply do not agree, and I do not believe the wider community will either. WormTT(talk) 09:59, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Under other circumstances I would probably agree with all of that. But we have the problem that ArbCom is also the (only) arbiter of desysop cases. This makes it a conflict of interest / separation of powers problem for ArbCom to be entirely composed of admins, who have a long and overwhelming history of backing up other admins almost at all costs. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? ArbCom itself – 1. existing as an admins-only body responsible for policing admins, and 2. making up discretionary sanctions [now contentious topics] out of their collective ass thereby giving admins unforeseen power – is the proximal cause of "adminship is no big deal" no longer being true (for over a decade now).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:52, 26 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment[edit]

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O'Rahilly's historical model[edit]

 Done

Hi, SMcCandlish. I've nominated O'Rahilly's historical model for deletion at Wikipedia:articles for deletion/O'Rahilly's historical model. As per your TP comments from earlier this year, you may be interested in weighing in. Eddie891 Talk Work 16:05, 21 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – No such RfC by the time I got there.
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October 2022 New Pages Patrol backlog drive[edit]

New Page Patrol | October 2022 backlog drive
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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment[edit]

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Discussion at Talk:Cyber Anakin § A mountain out of molehill?[edit]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Cyber Anakin § A mountain out of molehill?. 45.136.197.235 (talk) 00:32, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't know enough about the subject to get meaningfully involved, so I'll defer to the people already participating.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, but we are essentially just spinning wheels there at this point. It'll be great if you can take some time to review the issues there before giving feedback and advice, which we'll be grateful with. 45.136.197.235 (talk) 01:16, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's become too steep a mountain to climb. I suggest starting a WP:RFC about the underlying question(s).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:50, 7 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Books & Bytes – Issue 52[edit]

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Books & Bytes
Issue 52, July – August 2022

  • New instant-access collections:
    • SpringerLink and Springer Nature
    • Project MUSE
    • Taylor & Francis
    • ASHA
    • Loeb
  • Feedback requested on this newsletter

Read the full newsletter

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File move question[edit]

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Hi SMcCandlish. I was looking at Category:Wikipedia file movers and your username was one of the few I recognized. I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at User talk:Whpq#File:People’s Anti-Fascist Front.jpg and assess whether File:People’s Anti-Fascist Front.jpg should be moved because of the fullwidth apostrophe used in its file name. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:35, 7 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service[edit]

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Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Not a proper RfC
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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment[edit]

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New Page Patrol newsletter October 2022[edit]

Hello SMcCandlish,

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Much has happened since the last newsletter over two months ago. The open letter finished with 444 signatures. The letter was sent to several dozen people at the WMF, and we have heard that it is being discussed but there has been no official reply. A related article appears in the current issue of The Signpost. If you haven't seen it, you should, including the readers' comment section.

Awards: Barnstars were given for the past several years (thanks to MPGuy2824), and we are now all caught up. The 2021 cup went to John B123 for leading with 26,525 article reviews during 2021. To encourage moderate activity, a new "Iron" level barnstar is awarded annually for reviewing 360 articles ("one-a-day"), and 100 reviews earns the "Standard" NPP barnstar. About 90 reviewers received barnstars for each of the years 2018 to 2021 (including the new awards that were given retroactively). All awards issued for every year are listed on the Awards page. Check out the new Hall of Fame also.

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Saving the best for last: From a July low of 8,500, the backlog climbed back to 11,000 in August and then reversed in September dropping to below 6,000 and continued falling with the October backlog drive to under 1,000, a level not seen in over four years. Keep in mind that there are 2,000 new articles every week, so the number of reviews is far higher than the backlog reduction. To keep the backlog under a thousand, we have to keep reviewing at about half the recent rate!
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Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment[edit]

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Snark.[edit]

Strike it. SPECIFICO talk 04:06, 20 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's too obscure for me to do anything with.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October thanks[edit]

October songs
Poplar, Rüdesheim.jpg

Thank you for improving articles in October! - Look for mine: two favourite concerts were on DYK, and too many on RD (three yesterday). -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:04, 20 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

MOS on capitalization in headings starting with numbers.[edit]

This was discussed a year ago at here and here but with no real conclusion or clarification to the MOS. I always lower case these, and got pushback today at Glycine. You were pretty clear on what you think is correct, but there really needs to be something explicitly stated in the MOS. I don't want to revert again in Glycine (or go fix the other articles that editor used as UC examples) without something better to point to. Suggestions? Do we need to revive the year-ago discussion? MB 02:38, 22 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@MB: Yes, we do need to revive the discussion, until it ends with a clear consensus. This is a total no-brainer, but it needs to be done.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:00, 22 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, you didn't volunteer to do it so I guess it is up to me. I was about to post something, but saved it here instead. Could you proofread it first. I don't want to make confusing corrections or strikeouts after comments have started. MB 02:46, 23 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@MB: Looks fine to me (and you did a better job than I would have). I was going to say that option 3 isn't really mutually exclusive with 1 and 2, but you addressed that immediately after the options.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:08, 23 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, I reread it myself and added one more note at the end to try and keep the discussion focused on the main point. It is live now at here. Changing subjects, I'm still not getting anywhere at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Linking. MB 17:24, 23 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment[edit]

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PGP[edit]

FYI, it looks like your key has expired. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Aiee! Thanks, I'll have to generate a new one when I have time to mess around with it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Ajay-Atul[edit]

Alas, no consensus. Even with overwhelming evidence provided it didn't work in our favour. Perhaps I should've submitted this and it might have worked? Indopug, your input is welcome since you performed the Shankar–Ehsaan–Loy move. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:22, 15 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not worth worrying about. Can bring it up again later (like after 6 months or so).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Not a proper RfC but a routine WP:RSN discussion, the subject of which is outside my knowledge sphere.
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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – I just really DGaF about this one. Never have been interested in the politics of the DYK, ITN, etc. stuff on the front page.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:30, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Books & Bytes – Issue 53[edit]

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The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 53, September – October 2022

  • New collections:
    • Edward Elgar
    • E-Yearbook
    • Corriere della Serra
    • Wikilala
  • Collections moved to Library Bundle:
    • Ancestry
  • New feature: Outage notification
  • Spotlight: Collections indexed in EDS

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Another one I just DGaF about.
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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment[edit]

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November thanks[edit]

November songs
Pfaffenhütchen, Ehrenbach.jpg

Thank you for improving articles in November while I was on vacation. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:01, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

World Straight Pool Championship[edit]

 Done
 – Answered at the project talk page.

I posted a topic at the project talk page days ago. Please give me your thoughts on it. 104.172.112.209 (talk) 01:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello again. Thanks for your support the last time. But as of now, there seems to be strong opposition at the discussion from some user who isn't a member of the cue sports project. Perhaps you would like to share more thoughts on it? 104.172.112.209 (talk) 09:36, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello once more. Thanks again for your last comment on the project talk page. I know that you and I agree that the unsanctioned events are worth inclusion in the article. But that one user opposition strongly thinks that a world championship is only defined by sanctioning, and has been reverting any attempt to include the unsanctioned tournaments. How do we solve this dispute? 104.172.112.209 (talk) 22:52, 17 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sounds like a good thing for an RFC, since discussion has been tried and an impasse has been reached.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:19, 18 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment[edit]

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Happy late Thanksgiving![edit]

Thanksgiving Greetings (NBY 10142).jpg Happy late Thanksgiving!
Happy late Thanksgiving my old friend! I hope you had a great one, and are getting good stocking stuffer deals for this black Friday, but even more on cyber Monday! Huggums537 (talk) 16:06, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message[edit]

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Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment[edit]

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Precious anniversary[edit]

Precious
Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg
Five years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:00, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

sir[edit]

I fevently agree with your comment on The New York Times Best Seller list.

The hyphen is especially important here due to the implication that it is "best" in the sense of being critically acclaimed, which is obviously not the rubric. I know it sounds like a dumb hill to die on, but you're fucking right. Use your wiki weight on this one, man. Hell, they aren't even internally self-consistent. My suggestion is to go compound or hyphen. Either is good. Electricmaster (talk) 22:51, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Probably a lost cause. It's not an RM I would start up again, but I guess one that I would comment in.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:26, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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TikTok[edit]

Hi SMcCandlish. In case you don't remember me, we've discussed content matters at Talk:TikTok in the past. Would you mind taking a look at Talk:TikTok#Community Guidelines and Transparency Center? For context, there has been feedback from two editors, including constructive comments from Sdkb, but neither editor has continued the discussion beyond their initial comments. It would be great if you could help bring the discussion to a sensible conclusion and then edit the article accordingly. Thanks a lot! Bkenny44 (talk) 20:57, 5 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't think this will be a quick fix. Both sides have good points, more discussion should probably happen, and there's a lot of a proposed editing, including merger of material out of this article into at least two other articles.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:37, 6 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for getting involved. I agree that more discussion should happen, but I'm concerned that for lack of the broad discussion that we want ideally, we will sacrifice even the changes that we all already (mostly) agree on. I will add that the only reason I even raised the idea of merging material out of the article is that an editor protested that the article is too long. I didn't mean to inflate the discussion to the point that editors are deterred from taking action on my original proposal, which I tried to keep modest in scope.
In any case, can you please implement a version of my original proposed content that you think will reasonably satisfy all parties? I don't mind if the material is "considerably compressed," as you suggested. Best, Bkenny44 (talk) 18:18, 27 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template transclusions[edit]

Hello SMcCandlish. I have a question. MOS:NOSECTIONLINKS states, "For technical reasons, section headings should: Not contain template transclusions." I was working on the page Wikipedia:Local Embassy and noticed that section headings there contain templates, but I am not sure if they are template transclusions or if otherwise such use doesn't cause problems. I was also wondering what does said guidance mean with "template transclusions". If you have the time or interest to check on this it would be great. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 20:55, 6 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Yes, the reason for not using transclusions in section headings is because it interferes with section linking. This is probably much more important on article pages than Wikipedia project pages. But for these foreign language names, I would substitute those template calls or just copy the rendered page and paste the raw text. VanIsaac, GHTV contWpWS 21:31, 6 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I agree with Vanisaac.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:48, 7 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WT:MOSCAPS error[edit]

FYI, your edit was incorrect (or at least premature) for Bee's Knees and Hanky-Panky cocktail. Those RM discussions are still open. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:28, 7 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Derp. Must have needed a lot more coffee. Thanks for fixing it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Asking your opinion...[edit]

Hello. We crossed paths awhile ago. Wondering if you might look at the conversation on the talk page for Highland Park, Los Angeles here [9]. The info box previously showed official city signage installed by the Department of Transportation [10]. The signs also appear in Wilshire Vista, Los Angeles, Mid-City Heights, Los Angeles, Magnolia Square, Los Angeles among others. For me, this is a unique feature that other cities don't have and using them in this fashion visually unites all the Los Angeles neighborhoods. These neighborhood signs have also appeared in news articles to explain a neighborhoods official designation [11] That said... usage of these signs is only my opinion. Wondering what you think? Am I completely out of bounds with this one? Thanks for any consideration you might give. Yours, Phatblackmama (talk) 01:23, 8 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I tend to concur with the majority in how that discussion is going. Alleged meaningfulness of the signs to local residents has nothing to do with encyclopedic usefulness to a general audience, and showing a picture of a sign that just repeats the name of the article isn't useful as the infobox picture.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – I don't have the subject-specific knowledge to contribute meaningfully to that discussion
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December greetings[edit]

December songs
Frost in December, Ehrenbach.jpg
happy new year

Latest pics, with an opera discovery and some snow. Today my talk has a DYK that was planned for 22 November, among the recent deaths the author of Duck, Death and the Tulip, and now a choir pic of "our" concert last Sunday, likely to become next year's lead image. Enjoy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:08, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Today, pictured, the soprano of our choral concert of the year. More in the context: User talk:Gerda Arendt#DYK for Talia Or, in case of interest. - Enjoy the season! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:53, 26 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Did you know that Josephine Butler is on the Main page? Thank you for what you said in the discussion there, still true six years later. - If you like keep watching for 2023, with best wishes! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

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Nomination for merger of Template:Bcdb[edit]

 Done

Template:Bcdb has been nominated for merging with Template:BCDB title. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 20:33, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Merry Christmas![edit]

A very happy Christmas and New Year to you! Mr Fezziwig's Ball - A Christmas Carol (1843), frontispiece - BL.jpg


Have a great Christmas, and may 2023 bring you joy, happiness – and no trolls, vandals or visits from Krampus!

Cheers

SchroCat (talk) 11:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy Holidays![edit]

Christmas 3.jpg

I wish you and your loved ones a Merry Christmas and a prosperous new Year. Best regards RV (talk) 10:02, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Seasons Greetings[edit]

500px-Xmas tree animated.gif Whatever you celebrate at this time of year, whether it's Christmas or some other festival, I hope you and those close to you have a happy, restful time! Have fun, Donner60 (talk) 00:16, 23 December 2022 (UTC)}} Reply[reply] Candy stick icon.png
Donner60 (talk) 04:29, 26 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Collapsible table guidance at MOS[edit]

Hi- First, I have to confess that this is the first time in years of crossing paths that I realized there was an "l" in your name! Anyway, I was led to MOS:DONTHIDE by an edit summary the other day, and was surprised to see the (bolded) guidance Collapsible templates should not conceal article content by default upon page loading. I poked around a bit looking for an underlying discussion, but didn't find one. I noticed that you worked on that section. Do you know if there was any discussion on at some point that culminated in deciding that no table should be collapsed by default? This all comes out of my dislike for certain stats tables that I find unnecessary and unsightly, especially in a short article. For example, some editors seem to be compelled to add large, garish climate data tables to the articles for every hamlet on the planet. In many cases these tables dwarf the rest of the article's content. Examples: climate table, population table. Here are a couple related discussions, in case you're terribly bored and looking for some light reading:

Thanks in advance for any info/insight. Eric talk 17:37, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You'd have the search the MoS talk archives. I don't keep a running log of old discussions. The short version is that collapsed tables can't be uncollapsed in various configurations.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:38, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok, thanks for replying. I did search those archives the other day, but I didn't turn up anything. I might just err on the side of deleting the table templates in some cases. Eric talk 20:51, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
FWIW, I don't think climate tables belong in articles on individual towns. That's more of a regional matter. Maybe major cities that effectively are regions, like Los Angeles, London, NYC, etc.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:30, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
PS: Prior MoS discussions are more likely in archives of WT:MOSACCESS, since it's an accessibility matter.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:32, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, boy, I get a lot of hits when I search that archive for "collapsible". I can see now that the issue has been discussed a good bit over time, especially concerning the evolution of how different readers handle the code. I agree with you re climate tables in town articles; I offered a similar observation in at least one discussion. But I think that people who have spent (wasted?) a lot of time populating and updating those static tables have trouble making an objective re-assessment of their utility. Eric talk 21:52, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment[edit]

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Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Outside my sphere of knowledge/interest.
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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment[edit]

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Happy Kalends of January[edit]

Roma, denario di caio fonteina, 114 ac ca., con giano bifronte.jpg Happy New Year!
Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and distraction-free and may Janus light your way. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy New Year, SMcCandlish![edit]

Fuochi d'artificio.gif
Happy new year 01.svg
Happy New Year!

SMcCandlish,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
— Moops ⋠T⋡ 00:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops ⋠T⋡ 00:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Pages Patrol newsletter January 2023[edit]

Hello SMcCandlish,

New Page Review queue December 2022
Backlog

The October drive reduced the backlog from 9,700 to an amazing 0! Congratulations to WaddlesJP13 who led with 2084 points. See this page for further details. The queue is steadily rising again and is approaching 2,000. It would be great if <2,000 were the “new normal”. Please continue to help out even if it's only for a few or even one patrol a day.

2022 Awards
New page reviewer of the year cup.svg

Onel5969 won the 2022 cup for 28,302 article reviews last year - that's an average of nearly 80/day. There was one Gold Award (5000+ reviews), 11 Silver (2000+), 28 Iron (360+) and 39 more for the 100+ barnstar. Rosguill led again for the 4th year by clearing 49,294 redirects. For the full details see the Awards page and the Hall of Fame. Congratulations everyone!

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New draftify script: In response to feedback from AFC, the The Move to Draft script now provides a choice of set messages that also link the creator to a new, friendly explanation page. The script also warns reviewers if the creator is probably still developing the article. The former script is no longer maintained. Please edit your edit your common.js or vector.js file from User:Evad37/MoveToDraft.js to User:MPGuy2824/MoveToDraft.js

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Reviewer names[edit]

It's been a while since you made this post on my user talk page and I just had the urge to say thanks again for that. I've been following your advice on this subject (and in many cases going back to my old review additions and fixing them), and it definitely feels more right to me now. Thank you for making my Wikipedia editing a little happier. Martin IIIa (talk) 01:07, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Glad it helped. :-)  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:12, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Not a proper RfC.
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Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Not a proper RfC.
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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Don't care, and it's not proper subject matter for an RfC (no WP:RFCBEFORE has been done).
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Nomination for deletion of Template:Beacon sandbox[edit]

 Done

Template:Beacon sandbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:33, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RfD on Scandal sheet[edit]

 Done

Hi, only now discovering that you are the creator of this redirect page, else I would certainly have pinged you with my question the other day!

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Scandal sheet and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 9 § Scandal sheet until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Eric talk 01:38, 9 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

2023[edit]

January songs
Winter jasmine, Walluf.jpg
happy new year

Today's featured article is Osbert Parsley, not by me but Amitchell125 where I commented, including the beginning of my songs. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:41, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for your comments for Jenny Lind. I linked to the guidelines of project opera, updated 2019! - Do you think you could question those of project composer (2010) which are still used in hidden text to request that you find consensus before an edit (Debussy, for example)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:15, 26 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Melitta Muszely died, RIP - the other story is 10 years old OTD ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:33, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Input requested about open proxies[edit]

 Done

Hi McCandlish. There is a discussion in the thread Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Allow registered editors to use vpn (open proxies). Your input is welcome. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 17:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

 Done
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Your WP:RSN post about Maltese newspapers[edit]

Hi SMcCandlish. It looks like consensus was reached at your WP:RSN post, which has since been archived here. Could you please wrap up the discussion at Talk:Henley & Partners#Restore section that was deleted improperly and edit the article accordingly? Thanks, Sarah Nicklin (talk) 13:25, 16 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've noticed this, but I have a lot on my off-site plate right now.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:54, 22 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

 Done
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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

 Done
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Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment[edit]

 Done
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Books & Bytes – Issue 54[edit]

Bookshelf.jpg

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 54, November – December 2022

  • New collections:
    • British Newspaper Archive
    • Findmypast
    • University of Michigan Press
    • ACLS
    • Duke University Press
  • 1Lib1Ref 2023
  • Spotlight: EDS Refine Results

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --14:15, 23 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment[edit]

 Done
Your feedback is requested at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics on a "Wikipedia proposals" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – Don't know enough about the question to meaningfully comment there.
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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

 Done
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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

Disregard
 – I've already commented in this one.
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