User talk:Pawnkingthree/Archive 4

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more years in sumo

Hi. Long time no write. I just now noticed you have put up a bunch of new years in sumo articles, putting us well into the mid 90s. They look great. I wasn't aware how productive you had been over the summer! It must be a lot of work putting these together. Kudos. The "years" now stretch to before my time in Japan. Once again, the 1996 year article is another reminder of all the cool stuff I missed in sumo while I was still preoccupied with learning how to use chopsticks etc. Though I could see it in front of me, it did not register until you wrote it up that Takanohana had won quite a few championships (but not the elusive two in a row) before he finally made yokozuna. You mentioned some time ago that you were looking forward to putting up some article from the late 80s to early 90s which mark the years you first got into sumo. Heck we are almost to that point now with all your work, so maybe you can have even more fun with some of the year articles in the future. I look forward to reading them. But, as always, no pressure of course. Kotooshu certainly looks dominant in his bouts, manhandling all his opponents very efficiently so far. I hope at the very least he can keep things interesting. Of course, I have just jinxed him by writing this so... FourTildes (talk) 19:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Love the user name!

I saw your comment at Talk:Jeremy Troff, and just wanted to say that I love your user name! --A More Perfect Onion (talk) 20:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Why thank you! The French Defence has always been my favourite chess opening, and that's where it came from. I just used the old fashioned way of saying it - sounds better than ESix!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Jeremy Troff

An article that you have been involved in editing, Jeremy Troff, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Troff. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. SyG (talk) 18:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello, that was my fault. I saw the added "1994-1996" and didn't make the connection between those years and the Anthology CDs. I also didn't recognize the name Tony Sheridan. I'm sorry and I will try not to be as hasty in the future. LovesMacs (talk) 19:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


Yeah, I have gone a little crazy. I meant to go outside as the wrestlers came in and take more pictures, but the new friends I made watching the early divisions were too entertaining/distracting. I got a lot of other pics though, as you can see. Hope I didn't go overboard. Ironically I took no pictures of any juryo or makuchi bouts to give these sections pictures. FourTildes (talk) 22:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Just saw your Sakahoko update, sorry didn't realize he had an article (though I see I actually did some style edits a while back!) Glad you like the additions. Um, I have seen the guy on the left in the Makushita picture around (his face is pretty memorable) but I don't know his name. If I find out I will let you know. FourTildes (talk) 03:06, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


I wonder if you would be interested in accepting an RFA nomination for adminship. You have a strong record in article building, and work well with others, and I think those are prime qualities in a candidate. Accepting a nomination will mean community scrutiny of your past edits, and the nomination may include a number of questions of varying relevance. On the other hand, gaining adminship gives you access to a number of tools which can be put into good use in the right hands. Best wishes, Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:55, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

There are never any guarantees about the outcome of an RFA nomination. The relative sparsity of policy related edits might cause some oppose votes. Oppose votes for reasons like that are rarely of the "angry" variety, they are more of the "not yet" type, and I believe that opposition will be in a clear minority (passing an RFA requires 70-80% support). For most RFA regulars, contribution of encyclopedic material, knowledge and understanding of policy, and the ability to work constructively and civilly with others weigh more heavily than WikiPolitical edits, and your record there is very strong. Even on the WikiPolitical side, your experience record is by no means empty; your talkpage and AFD edits make several good and relevant references to Wikipedia policy. Obviously, my hope is that you will accept a nomination, but the choice is yours. :-) Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

basho updates

thanks for cleaning up after me on the basho updates. I updated wrestlers rather willy-nilly (many as the tournament was still finishing) and I ended up missing a few things which I had planned to get back to later. Thankfully you picked up on them. I did look for a reference for the Hakuho addition about the consecutive tournaments that they kept mentioning on the broadcast over the last few days. I have yet to find one, but I will try to find something. Though I love your records article, I decided to leave you to update it. However, before I knew it, 2 anonymous users had jumped in with updates. Which means people are looking at this article regulary, which is nice to know, eh? FourTildes (talk) 21:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


more dinking

Yeah, the cookie monster got me too. Busy guy/gal, no? Anyway, I ihave been dinking again - you know me. First of all in my User:FourTildes/sandbox 2 I put the active wrestlers article back into separate divisions. The reason for this being is b/c I thought maybe for Juryo and below wrestlers' Current Rank we could put in a "see here" and the here would be linked to the division heading in the active wrestlers article. Again, this means we wouldn't have to update this info twice on both articles, the active wrestlers article might get more exposure, and b/c I think it's kind of keen. It would also mean that the sorting code that I devised for the active wrestler article could be made simpler as well, but that is a small plus. And of course, wrestlers moving in/out of divisions would have to be moved manually, but that is only 2 or so a basho, so I thought what the heck. Of course, the big question is whether linking to another article like that is going too far, so I ask your opinion. Again, I suppose I should put this up on the WP:sumo page as well, to get the "broad" consensus. I will do that as well.. Don't worry about the work I put into it, rearranging the wrestlers back into sections took about 15 minutes, no big deal.

Are you going to take the adminstratorship chance? Very few people would be more suited for all the reasons the User above stated. Of course, it is probably a lot of extra responsibility as well.. FourTildes (talk) 22:07, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

My school I work at just cancelled classes for the week due to influenza. This has opened up a swath of unexpected time, and I have already jumped (prematurely) on my idea, once I saw you didn't see it as a problem. I am sure it will take most a while to notice anyway, as I am sure the higher up wrestlers get more attention. Good luck if the administratorship thing goes thru, I certainly hope it doesn't take enough of your time that I see less of you here. Where would I be?  ;) FourTildes (talk) 02:13, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


thanks for adding categories to the public domain images I have been finding. I thought I was adding them, but I was forgetting to hit enter. Will try to do better. (;

I just noticed that collection that you have put together. I will try to link anything I upload there in the future. And thru your edits I have also noticed I have gotten lazy about kinboshi recently...funny, as there are so few of them. Will be more careful about that in the future. FourTildes (talk) 02:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


thanks for the input. I shouldn't have started this up as I am busy today. I know, sometimes even the things I do make me shake my head. Anyway, I will take a look and look at your suggestion and see what I can do. FourTildes (talk) 23:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


I updated the goldstar references in a number of places. Beyond killing time, I actually found a few mistakes here and there, so it wasn't all for naught. One thing: when someone came thru with a bot a few months back and changed references and eliminated "unnecessary" line breaks, he/she caused the same problem I/we had before with a wrestler's shikona not showing completely above his tourney table in the Csernica template. I never noticed this problem with my Mac, but I just noticed it today when I was looking at wrestler articles with an older version of Windows (early XP). Do you use Windows? Do you have any problem seeing the full shikona above the template? Let me know when you have time. Cheers. FourTildes (talk) 05:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

By the way, I added a few more images to older wrestler articles (public domain), but couldn't figure out how to add them to the Professional Sumo grouping you had them in. Sorry about that. FourTildes (talk) 05:08, 7 October 2009 (UTC)


Just saw your Oct 6 comment about Sansho. Not sure why I missed it. Anyway, we can probably do that to, though I think JSA uses "Special Prizes". FourTildes (talk) 23:24, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Game of Thrones

I can't believe you read the first two and stopped there! One of my oldest friends, from kindergarten, insisted I read the first book and much to his joy I was hooked. I am on the 3rd book and the 4th is purchased. I love a lot of things about these books, but one major one is that it avoids a trap all fantasy seems to fall into, that wherever the book seems to be heading is destiny, a foregone conclusion. These books are nothing like that, they read like a history almost (of course it is loosely based on the War of the Roses) where unexpected, but entirely plausible things happen with regularity. It is funny, the writer, Martin, is from the States (New Jersey!) but he uses many British spellings and usages, I suppose to give things a more "period" feel: gaol for jail etc, even though he doesn't use other British spellings like favourite for favorite. Strange. FourTildes (talk) 02:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh my! I have read the entire Sandman series. I first discovered Neil Gaiman in a limited series he wrote just before that, called Black_Orchid. I actually bought the first issue of Sandman in "comic" form when it first came out in the late 80's (89 maybe?) but it didn't catch my interest enough at the time to continue buying the series (had budget concerns too, I was only 17); but later on I started reading the anthologies and have since read them all. I think that first issue I have in storage in my old comic book collection is worth something like 30 bucks now, which is a lot considering the bottom fell out of the comic book collector market several years back. Anyway, can't get enough of Gaiman. I have read a number of his books. Ironically, I couldn't get friends who wouldn't stoop to reading "comic books" to read Sandman, and now a number of them love his books he has written since. Yes, I had heard Martin's latest installment was to be published this month, and he hasn't even finished it yet; I hadn't heard writer's block had anything to do with it. Maybe I need to slow down my reading pace so I can time it better with when he finally gets it out. FourTildes (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

record holders

Hey PK3, just had an idea. It seems to me that a longest at sekiwake and/or longest at komusubi category would be good new record(s) to add. Ozeki is a harder rank to attain, but certainly not a harder rank to maintain, right? Considering that, I think they are almost more meaningful records than the longest Ozeki category. It's an idea anyway, I don't know if there is an easy way to find this info or note. If you think it is a good idea (or not, you may have good reasons against it I hadn't thought of), we could give it a crack. I was going to suggest you make it; but I wouldn't mind taking a crack at making one of those tables now that I have started writing about it. Did you see the guy making Yamamotoyama edits? At first I thought we had a new possible editor, but then I realized he was just disambiguating from one of the oldest companies in the world called Yamamotoyama. Interesting list, if you saw it. FourTildes (talk) 09:49, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I used your queries to do a junior sanyaku table - it seemed better than separate k and s tables. A few points: The times at these ranks is not consecutive; though I believe your above Ozeki table is since it has an "ended by" column. Should we distinguish between these two tables as showing consecutive or non-consecutive ranks, or change my table to a consecutive table? I don't think it would be much of a table to show consecutive s-k bouts as these ranks are hard to maintain. Also, two wrestlers on my list are from the 1700-1800s, and their individual records show ??? for some of their banzuke ranks, BUT they still have their respective record number of bashos at that rank even just counting bashos that there is a record of. Do they still qualify, or are their records "inadequate"? Wasn't sure on this one. Comments, improvements, error catching welcome.FourTildes (talk) 08:18, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

thanks I will impliment all your suggestions and error finds. FourTildes (talk) 23:12, 15 November 2009 (UTC) Additional: I left Kaio's blank with the idea that there is a possibility he could go back to junior sanyaku, but I guess it all right to list his last junior sanyaku to date. FourTildes (talk) 23:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh right, I did do Kotomitsuki's "last" junior sanyaku. I knew there had to be some inconsistency in there somewhere. Anyway, it is easy enough to update if either of them do fall to lower sanyaku. There are now three "most tournament at a sanyaku rank" tables, we might consider making them a subheading under a heading with a title along the lines of what I wrote above and any notes about these ranks listings could be explained. But maybe they are self-explanatory. Just a thought anyway. FourTildes (talk) 01:09, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Looks to me like the info from those tables is more digestible the way you have done it. No complaints. FourTildes (talk) 04:04, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Someone's jumped in and given you a new table, if you haven't seen it. I already made a few edits to it. Not the shabbiest of table ideas I guess. FourTildes (talk) 20:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Mokonami et al

I figured I would take a go (I have started one or two wrestler articles, though I can't remember who they were now). It was a tossup between Mokonami or Tosayutaka (both are struggling in lower Makuuchi). I figured Mokonami probably would garner more interest as a foreigner (he also has a Mongolian article; and all Mongolian wrestlers now have tourney tables I noticed!). On the other hand, I have been wondering if some wrestlers' tourney tables are really necessary. A few like Daimanazuru have only one Makuuchi tourney(fluke?) and are followed by a long series of greys. These tables seem depressing and little else and provide little information. I was wondering if we might not relegate their table info to their discussion pages for reference if we need them later. I am only referring to a few makushita guys with one or two makuuchi appearances, with exceptions of course for wrestlers like Towanoyama who are notable for other reasons. If you have any reservations, make them known and I'll forget about it (I am on vacation and have no big plans so am looking for jobs to keep busy (: ) I assume you are in the UK and enjoying Christmas cheer with friends and family. Have a great time!

I broke down and did Tosayutaka as well. I would have done him maybe even before Mokonami if I knew he had won 3 lower division championships in a row. I had noticed his name among champions, but not 3 times in a row. That's a feat.
I will relegate a few wrestlers' tables. Hope your happy Christmas time continues unabated! FourTildes (talk) 18:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

How about this approach instead to avoid long list of greys for guys like Daimanazuru? Doesn't look too bad maybe? FourTildes (talk) 05:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought you would agree. I think things just evolved that way with the tourney tables and we boxed ourselves in. Speaking of which, this gave me the idea for what I have done with the last 3 makuuchi blokes' tables, i.e. Hakuba Takeshi. What do you think of that, skipping years? It could even be applied to other guys floating in lower divisions that already have articles, I think it looks better and only a little info (makushita or juryo etc.) is lost really. Something to think about anyway. Yes, I am still on vacation and the wife and child are at her parents. I don't know why I went so crazy (especially today). Hope you are enjoying life back in the States! FourTildes (talk) 15:59, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I had mixed feelings about it, but decided to try it out and see, and lo and behold all 3 wrestlers I did in rapid succession had very similar makuuchi patterns. I do agree that holding off for now on such a big change is a good idea.

more overkill

Hey, whenever you get time, maybe check this out: User:FourTildes/sandbox I'll give you a minute to figure out how I have changed the article. It all started because I started toying with the idea erasing pesky little red links in the "active" list. At first I tried to make the exta info I have added into a separate article entitled "sumo wrestlers with limited makuuchi experience" but got a 2 deletion tag messages on my discussion page within, literally, 30 seconds. And I suppose they are right. So I toyed with the idea of putting the little bios of the three un-articled makuuchi wrestlers at the bottom of the "active" list and linking them to their references in the makuuchi list. I know, I know it's overkill, and I only did it because of the time on my hands, and even if it was a good idea I couldn't guarantee I always would have the time to do it every two months when new wrestlers come up (not that it takes much time). I realize that the info I have compiled could always be used in future articles. Anyway, thoughts? FourTildes (talk) 18:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, agreed. Full articles is the way to go. Mostly I think it's because I don't want to make tourney tables that might just end up being a lot of gray boxes, but I suppose they don't HAVE to have tourney tables. I don't know when I'll get around to making them into articles. Feel free to use the info I have compiled (and have yet to ref!) if you feel inclined to make an article out of one of them at some point and I haven't done it yet. (talk)

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Pawnkingthree! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 1,400 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

  1. Alan Douglas (record producer) - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · NYT · AP · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 21:16, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

thanks again

For fixing a number of careless oversights in my recent edits. Glad again someone is out there watching. FourTildes (talk) 23:22, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Yep, after I came in like a hawk and snuffed out someone's kinboshi reference in Baruto's article, I realized I probably should've been kinder to a contributor and changed his/her addition into something more usable. I thought about doing this, but instead I went to bed.. Glad you added back in a reference to Bart's 1st yokozuna win. FourTildes (talk) 21:50, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


Interesting that six language's wikis have an article for this Yanagawa ja:柳川信行 guy, but English doesn't. The picture all but the Japanese wiki is using looks photoshopped to me, and the dohyo-iri file name is strange too. There is one more picture of him on wikicommons where someone changed his JSA pic to black and white and uploaded it claiming it as their own work, herm.... FourTildes (talk) 08:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

If I may jump in - for reasons that elude me, Yanagawa seems to be somewhat of an inside joke among (some) Japanese fans. I've run into more than one place that had facetious comments about how he was going to rise to yokozuna any day now. (If I had to hazard a guess, it might be because of his kesho-mawashi - seen in the Kyokai site profile - showing a Tosa dog in yokozuna regalia.) I can only imagine that spillover effects are responsible for him having articles in so many other wikis, probably without the contributors being particularly aware that he's not a very notable figure. Zeyes (talk) 13:48, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, the Hananosato article...looks like a clear example of the power of Wikipedia. :) Looking at the initial version, that article probably should have been speedy-deleted at the time, but somehow it survived and eventually flourished, without much of a good reason. About Ozutsu - This is the (I think) official website for him and the restaurant. I don't edit enough on Wiki to be sure whether that would be a proper enough link to add as reference or straight offsite-link, so I left it off for now. Feel free to add it if you think it's okay. (A few more views of the place can be found here BTW.) Zeyes (talk) 12:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC)


That short section reads: 2003年11月場所、前の場所怪我のため全休した五城楼はその場所の4日目の取組で黒海を叩きこんだ時に指がマゲに入って反則負け、さらにその2日後の6日目の取組で潮丸をまたまた叩きこんだ時に指がマゲに入って反則負けとなった。「1場所に2度の反則負け」は史上初の珍事であった。

In the November 2003 tournament where he had missed the entire previous tournament due to injury, Gojoro got his fingers in Kokkai's topknot on the 4th day while executing a slapdown and lost by disqualification. Then on the 6th day of the same tournament he again got disqualified, this time by getting his fingers in Ushiomaru's topknot while slapping him down. This was the first time a wrestler had been disqualified twice in one tournament in the history of sumo.

Change the wording etc. anyway you like when you put it up.


That's a term I've learned from British friends. Anyway, your wp:sumo edit just informed me that I was lucky enough to finally get a pic of Tamarikido in his last bout! I didn't believe so I checked myself. Had no idea that was coming. I think I deleted a few not so good pics I wished I had now kept.


thanks for updates. I should have told you I had only done makuuchi. Have you done Makushita yet? FourTildes (talk) 03:04, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


I found out first from an edit by an anonymous user to the Yokozuna list; figured this editor was jumping the gun, so I turned on the TVelly and there it was happening.. Yeah, the guy kind of asked for this, but I thought he'd be his typical self, shrug it off and resist retiring. Hakuho was inconsolable when he was interviewed about it, he looked pretty shocked himself. Sumo will be less interesting for this, and what will people talk about on the forum now...? FourTildes (talk) 20:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

ITN for Asashōryū Akinori

Current events globe On 5 February 2010, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article Asashōryū Akinori, which you recently nominated and substantially updated. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the candidates page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 03:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)


thanks for the banzuke updates. I have been in one of the busier periods of my life recently - changing jobs among other things - and haven't had much time. I did see the Asashoryu yusho/retire debate and chimed in with my solution - I hope it wasn't too much of a compromise? It seemed to me, in the long run, people will be thinking about how many yusho he got, as opposed to the time he is officially considered retired, and being able to put a retired box without a 0-0-15 seemed sufficient (you can also make the box read 0-0-0, but I thought no record at all was possibly better. I noticed that Chinese wiki has now picked up the tourney template; don't know if many articles besides Asashoryu's are using it yet though. FourTildes (talk) 20:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

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