User talk: Paine Ellsworth
Best of everything to you and yours! and...
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia and its redirects, and
have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable year in 2023!
 | Gentle reminder... this is my talk page, where you and I may get to know each other better. Thank you for coming here, and thanks beyond words for your interest in and your contributions to this encyclopedia project! Offline and other online interests sometimes keep me very busy, and that's when I'm slow to respond to echo noties, my talk page and emails. Do me a favor, please forgive me, and again, thank you for being here! Paine Ellsworth |  |
The Closer:
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 I am not an administrator. Wouldn't mind being one, although don't really want to be. Wouldn't mind being an admin because I deeply respect many admins and have been helped by them many, many times over the years. I also respect (tho' do not always agree with) the community vettings at RfA that often show the ultimate trust of an editor. Don't really want to be an admin because I guess I'm just too old to go through that sometimes grueling community scrutiny. So I shall remain a non-admin caught between two worlds... the world of the admins, which means I'm expected not to close controversial discussions (which I sometimes do, sometimes don't), and the world of less experienced editors who don't want me to close the "easy" discussions (which I also sometimes do, sometimes don't), and save those for them. If it's in the backlog, then it's fair game! Anyway, if you have come to ask about one of my RfC, RM, MRV or other discussion closures, you are very welcome here! I am usually inclined to reopen a discussion if the outcome was "no consensus" and when I am asked to do so (not so much if I found a consensus – doesn't mean I cannot be persuaded with a good, sound argument)! Please be very clear about your intentions and do not beat around the bush. Thank you for your deeply respected concerns! |
'they help us keep our minds sharp!'
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The Signpost: 03 April 2023[edit]
* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:46, 3 April 2023 (UTC) RFC close[edit]Hi Paine Ellsworth, thank you for your close. Even though the wording has been slightly modified from
Administrators' newsletter – April 2023[edit]News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2023).
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:11, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
I, Paine Ellsworth, invite you to participate in The Core Contest.
Each participant improves one vital or core article during a ≈45 day period, with monetary rewards at stake!
This is an excellent opportunity to make a "bang-for-your-buck" improvement to Wikipedia through a burst of focused effort that will be felt most by the casual user. See a fuller explanation here.
Hurry up and reserve an article now!
08:05, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
To invite other editors, place the following on their talk page:
==Invitation to participate in The Core Contest=={{subst:User:Festucalex/sandbox/tcc-invite}}Ref. User talk:Aza24#Invitation template for WP:TCC I, Paine Ellsworth, invite you to participate in The Core Contest.
Each participant improves one vital or core article during a ≈45 day period, with monetary rewards at stake!
This is an excellent opportunity to make a "bang-for-your-buck" improvement to Wikipedia through a burst of focused effort that will be felt most by the casual user. See a fuller explanation here.
Hurry up and reserve an article now!
08:12, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
To invite other editors, place the following on their talk page:
==Invitation to participate in The Core Contest=={{subst:User:Festucalex/sandbox/tcc-invite}}Ref. User talk:Aza24#Invitation template for WP:TCC Move request re-opening[edit]Hello, I am wondering if the move request on this page could be re-opened, and possibly approved. A personal family member teaches electrical engineering, and I never heard him use the term Sheffer stroke. Indexcard88 (talk) 08:11, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
Dear Paine Ellsworth: may I impose on your kind clarifications again, to tell me how to "unstick" the above move request? With the new update to WP:NCWS (added last sentence of lede, per consensus resolution here), the reason given for the prior (contested) move from "alphabet" to "script" appears to vanish. I noted this at the bottom of the move request thread. Does it still need to linger until May 8? – .Raven .talk 13:39, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Plea[edit]Hello P.E., please, if you have some spare time, would you check something for me - it's a protected template inclusion request here? I would really appreciate it, but thank you anyway and in advance. ౪ Santa ౪99° 21:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
New Page Patrol – May 2023 Backlog Drive[edit]
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:12, 20 April 2023 (UTC) Request[edit]Hello, can you do me a favor and close this dispute. The dispute seems to be resolved, but now it seems like it has deviated from its course with the people inquiring each other’s motives. Okiyo9228 (talk) 02:43, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 26 April 2023[edit]
* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC) Administrators' newsletter – May 2023[edit]News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2023).
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:23, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
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The Signpost: 8 May 2023[edit]
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Precision[edit]
Just to let you know, editor Captain Jack Sparrow, I do understand your PRECISION argument. I think one reason editors did not come to agreement on the two article titles is because, at present, Hindutva terrorism fails RECOGNIZABLE and is supported by PRECISION, while Hindu terrorism fails PRECISION while being supported by RECOGNIZABLE. If I've read the discussions correctly, there are some editors who want the Hindu terrorism title so they can broaden the scope of the article, which at present is pretty much all about Hindutva terrorism. They seem to want to add more subtopics to the article under the title of Hindu terrorism. This might be why none of the closers so far have wanted to change the article title from its current "Hindu terrorism". They seem to want to leave room for expansion of the article's scope. But you appear to want the scope to remain what it is now, so I wonder why you don't want to let those other editors begin to expand the scope of the article under the "Hindu terrorism" title? Just curious, really, and I would understand if you want to completely ignore and dismiss this inquiry. I really did mean it when I said I wish you the best going forward. We're all volunteer editors here, and I do respect your enthusiasm where WP improvement is concerned. Thank you very much for that! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 13:01, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- Im not entirely opposed to expanding the scope, though I think the two should be separated. I havent given much weight to those arguments as those who want to expand the scope havent actually brought up incidents that would be classified as "Hindu Terrorism" . It has been about a month since the title was changed, yet the only meaningful content about Hindu Terror is the opening paragraph (and even that is in context of Hindutva Terrorism only). What I dont want is editors just hand waving and asking for time to drag out the process enough that people stop participating and they keep the contents and the title that they want.
- And about the PRECISION argument, thanks for letting me know. What I was conveying when I talked about RECOGNISABLE argument, was that while Hindutva Terrorism may not be the most recognisable term, I didnt think it was obscure enough to invoke the policy cited. While we should look for a more recognisable titles, we shouldnt lose sight of other policies. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 13:35, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- As an addendum, the idea that some editors are "expanding" the scope by naming it Hindu Terrorism is also flawed; It assumes that Hindutva is simply a subset of Hinduism, an argument inherently flawed as discussed on the talk page. Naming the article Hindu Terrorism isnt expanding the scope, it is misleading the reader as to the contents of the article. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 09:34, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- Point taken, and while the fairly popular idea that Hindutva terrorism is a subtopic of Hindu terrorism is discussed, I find myself at a loss to know the precise viability of the specifics surrounding that idea. If you're correct, then a whole new light might be shed by a fresh RM, Hindu terrorism → Hindutva terrorism, to see if editors can build an actual consensus for one of those titles. I think that's where this is headed, and I look forward to the result! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 09:47, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- I would prefer a resolution in the MRV itself, it is getting pretty exhausting tbh. I would take part in the
fourthfifth discussion if necessary, but it would be a lot of extra effort I would rather avoid. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 10:00, 13 May 2023 (UTC)- I'm sure you are not alone in those thoughts, Captain Jack Sparrow, not alone at all. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 10:07, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- I would prefer a resolution in the MRV itself, it is getting pretty exhausting tbh. I would take part in the
- Point taken, and while the fairly popular idea that Hindutva terrorism is a subtopic of Hindu terrorism is discussed, I find myself at a loss to know the precise viability of the specifics surrounding that idea. If you're correct, then a whole new light might be shed by a fresh RM, Hindu terrorism → Hindutva terrorism, to see if editors can build an actual consensus for one of those titles. I think that's where this is headed, and I look forward to the result! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 09:47, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- As an addendum, the idea that some editors are "expanding" the scope by naming it Hindu Terrorism is also flawed; It assumes that Hindutva is simply a subset of Hinduism, an argument inherently flawed as discussed on the talk page. Naming the article Hindu Terrorism isnt expanding the scope, it is misleading the reader as to the contents of the article. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 09:34, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
Choice of words[edit]
In the MRV, your choice of words has not been that of a good faith editor. It is likely not a violation of WP:NPA, but it is not indicative of a healthy attitude for a discussion. Focus on policy, not trying to berate editors. I hope you take this seriously. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 06:30, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- You should talk. However we seem to be able to tolerate each other's shortcomings, and my guess it's because we both know that volunteer editing of an encyclopedia can be very rewarding in many ways, but it's not always the easiest thing to do. I would suggest editors stop trying to stick to their guns so hard and start trying to build consensus for a better title for that article – that's all the editors involved, including you and me. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 08:30, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- You dont seem to have understood what a good faith discussion is, with your comment right after this being "you appear to be blind as a bat". Can you not discuss something without trying to berate others? The fact that someone has tolerated your comments does not excuse them. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 04:33, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
- I don't berate others. Others berate themselves, and I just point out their self-derision with the hope that, in the future, they will stop embarrassing themselves. As human beings many of us are sadly self-derisive without being aware of it. Your words give away the fact that you are blind to the truths of this situation. While I'm certain this is true, I'm also certain that just saying you are blind would not imprint on your mind nearly as deeply as being called "blind as a bat". The fact that you find that statement berating speaks volumes. You are much smarter than you consider yourself to be, Sparrow. So please consider how much easier bats get around than we do. They use sonar much better than we do, so they don't need "sight". Enjoy the wisdom! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 04:44, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
- You dont seem to have understood what a good faith discussion is, with your comment right after this being "you appear to be blind as a bat". Can you not discuss something without trying to berate others? The fact that someone has tolerated your comments does not excuse them. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 04:33, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 22 May 2023[edit]
- In the media: History, propaganda and censorship
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Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox album/color/sandbox/doc[edit]
Template:Infobox album/color/sandbox/doc has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Q𝟤𝟪 21:08, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
Sigh[edit]
Honestly, it's stuff like this that makes me want to take all 6k templates and bung them into a single module... let people fight over the flags if they want, but put it into a smaller area. Primefac (talk) 13:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, and believe it or not, I've been through every template a few times sprucing them up. I've always been very impressed by the way the {{Country showdata}} meta was implemented, if not by its "non-country" applications. Russia is special with its many subdivisions: Republics, Oblasts, Cities and so much more. Then of course, there's the US and UK. Sigh indeed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 13:53, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:Rcat template documentation pages has been nominated for renaming[edit]
Category:Rcat template documentation pages has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Gonnym (talk) 08:43, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Challenge on my G6 request of Gypsy Girl[edit]
Hi Paine Ellsworth,
I see you challenged my speedy deletion request that moves Gypsy Girl (disambiguation) to Gypsy Girl and categorized Gypsy Girl to Category:Redirects from ambiguous terms instead. I notice that 4meter4 has recently adapted the disambiguation page to remove Gypsy Girl (Television series) from the primary topic. Now that there's an on-going discussion on Talk:Gypsy Girl (Television series) to determine if it's the primary topic, I will make further move after the consensus was formed.
Do you have any reason except that? According to Wikipedia:Disambiguation, the disambiguation page should be moved to its base name if there's no primary topic. Otherwise, it could be adapted to a primary redirect to the primary topic. In either case, the base name shouldn't be linked to itself with the (disambiguation) qualifier. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 08:39, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, I saw the move request with opposition and thought that the SD was jumping the gun just a bit. Agree that the redirect should not target the GG (dab) page for very long because the redirect can temporarily be considered malplaced. To be able to disposition the redirect correctly, we'll have to wait until the move request is closed to find out what needs to be done with it. Thank you very much for coming to my talk page, editor NmWTfs85lXusaybq, and Best of Everything to You and Yours! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 15:58, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
Rank of Endopterygota[edit]
Moved to Discussion
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There's a problem with the rank of Endopterygota, which you changed at Template:Taxonomy/Endopterygota. The article says it's a superorder, but it has two children, Hymenopterida and Panorpida, which are also said to be superorders. So I reverted the change to Template:Taxonomy/Endopterygota. However, the sources at Endopterygota seem to be more recent, so I wonder if Hymenopterida and Panorpida are no longer accepted? Peter coxhead (talk) 10:14, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
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This discussion has been moved, and a notification was given to WikiProject Insects. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 08:55, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
Request to add Outlook India's Emerging University 2022 ranking[edit]
Hello, please add Outlook India's Emerging State Private University 2022 ranking to Template:Infobox India university ranking. Here is the source[1]. I really hope that you will accept my request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Someone Apex (talk • contribs) 18:40, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- To editor Someone Apex: thank you for coming to my talk page! Hope to find time later this morning to look into this. Have reopened your previous request. Thanks again! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 03:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- To editor Paine Ellsworth: Thanks a lot!!
The Signpost: 5 June 2023[edit]
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