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It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices, as policy requires that people who persistently do not must be blocked from editing. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. DanCherek (talk) 19:52, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution[edit]
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Battle of Varna into List of wars involving Hungary. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution (2nd request)[edit]
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Solomon, King of Hungary into List of wars involving Hungary. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. DanCherek (talk) 16:22, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for that, I forget to mention this in the edit log. I do next time. By the way I wrote that text in the Szekely page what I copied to the other page relating the Szekelys and the history of Transylvania. OrionNimrod (talk) 15:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your understanding. DanCherek (talk) 15:54, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. You have reverted a comment I made on a talk page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sz%C3%A9kelys&diff=1071098662&oldid=1071050157 under the pretense that it was vandalism. My comment was a valid point in the topic that was being discussed, as it was my intention to provide proper context for the debate regarding wether the subject is an ethnic group or a subgroup. It was made in good faith and therefore cannot be described as "vandalism". Furthermore, the comment did not contain any contentious, false or bad faith arguments that could make someone reasonably assume that the comment was vandalism - aside from my labeling of the Fidesz party as "ultranationalist" - a claim which is supported by reliable sources, and even if it wasn't, it doesn't justify a deletion of an entire post. I will undo your revert, and I will ask that you read WP:ATWV for future reference. Thank you. 46.97.170.40 (talk) 10:55, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to have reverted my edit on the Hungary page about the government state. Where else am I meant to put the government state then in the infobox?
NecromancerOfEnchanting (talk) 07:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Lorin Fortuna" is the name of a well-known and controversial Romanian, involved in the 1989 Revolution. The Wikipedia account is clearly a joke. Also "secoimea" is a mocking word that replaces "secuimea" with a word from the word family of testicles ("coaie" in Romanian). Regards,--Kun Kipcsak (talk) 06:30, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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An article you recently created, Battle of Tárnok Valley, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Storchy (talk) 19:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! This was just a start stage, expanding in progress. But I did not know how move to draft. OrionNimrod (talk) 19:57, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I created a new one which is better named, because this 2 legendary battle is related and it was almost together in the old medieval chronicle, of course I will expand and make it correct:
Hello, just place a {{db-author}} template on the article, since you made the only substantial edits. Storchy (talk) 18:32, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Let me be frank, I think that Prince Csaba never existed. I think the stories about Csaba (by Simon of Kéza, and Mark of Kalt) as well as the story involving Prince Zuard & the Sobamogera (by Anonymus, on pp 46-47 of [1] containing Rady's translation, see also Rady's note on pp. 68-69) are all based this short passage:
One part went eastwards and settled in the region of Persia, and they to this day are called by the ancient denomination of the [Magyars] "Sabartoi asphaloi"
— Constantine Porphyrogenitus's De Administrando Imperio, "Chapter 38"
However, I do not know (any) source(s) that refute(s), or at least is/are skeptical of Csaba's existence. Can you kindly provide any? If there weren't any, still fine. I'll keep speculation in the talk pages instead of publishing it in articles. Thanks beforehand!Erminwin (talk) 01:20, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Sabirs were also referred to as Huns. Byzantine documents normally refer to Sabirs as Sabiroi, although the Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos (908-959) writes in his De Administrando Imperio that he was told by a Hungarian delegation visiting his court that the Tourkoi (the Byzantine name for the Hungarians) used to be called "sabartoi asphaloi". Possibly some Hungarian group derived from the Sabirs.
I think the Hungarian names many times were adapted wrongly in foreign sources or the Hungarian form was different for the same person. Csaba can be legendary or real figure. If real, historians identify his person with son of Attila like Ernak, just Csaba was the Hungarian name for him. Ernak based the Onogurs. By 568 the Avars, under Khagan Bayan I established an empire in the Carpathian Basin that lasted for 250 years. Related peoples from the east arrived in the Avar Kaganate several times: around 595 the Kutrigurs, and then around 670 the Onogurs.[1]
Probably this can be the Avars/Onogurs, (Hungarian chronicles never mention the Avars, and also the Hungarians named several times as Huns or Scythians, even in the Avar timeline)
“This Csaba is the legal son of Attila from the daughter of the Greek emperor Honorius, whose sons were called Edemen and Ed. When the Hungarians returned to Pannonia for the second time, Edemen was coming with the huge kinship of his father and mother, his mother was from the nation of Khwarazm/Chorasmia (White Huns/Hephthalites). And Ed stayed in Scythia with his father. The Aba clan originated from this Csaba. When Csaba went back to Scythia and he boasted the nobility of his mother in front of the community, the nobility of the Huns despised him, claiming that he is not a true offspring of the country of Scythia, but only such a foreign kind. Why he did not get a wife from Scythia, but he got a wife from the nation of Chorasmia.”
"In the year of 677 after the incarnation of the Lord, 104 years after the death of King Attila of Hungary, in the time of Emperor Constantine III and Pope Zachary - as it is written in the Roman chronicle - the Hungarians came out the second time from Scythia."
Some historians (which can be fringe) think the timeline problems related to the Phantom time hypothesis, and because it was many calendar and confusion and new unified calendar was after 1000 only in Europe.
The Hungarians probably belonged to the Onogur tribal alliance and it is very possible that they became its ethnic majority.[2][3]
Several contemporary sources mentioned the Hun–Avar–Hungarian continuity and identity, such as "The Avars called Hungarians".[4][5][6][7][8][9] The downfall of the Avar Khaganate at the beginning of the 9th century did not mean the extinction of the Avar population, contemporary written sources report surviving Avar groups.[10] The main work of historian and archeologist Gyula László is the theory of the "double conquest" of the Carpathian Basin by Hungarians in the 5th and 9th centuries. The essence of the theory is that Avar culture is similar, or sometimes identical to Hungarian culture in that period. According to the archaeological findings, the Avars not only survived the end of the Avar state but lived in great masses at the time of the Hungarian conquest. Gyula László suggests that late Avars, arriving to the khaganate in 670 in great numbers, lived through the time between the destruction and plunder of the Avar state by the Franks at the beginning of the 9th century and the arrival of the Hungarians at the end of the 9th century. He points out that the settlements of the Hungarians complemented, rather than replaced, those of the Avars.[11]
The Hungarians arrived in the Carpathian Basin, in a geographically unified but politically divided land, after acquiring thorough local knowledge of the area from the 860s onwards.[12][13][14] After the end of the Avar Kaganate (c. 822), the Eastern Franks asserted their influence in Transdanubia, the Bulgarians to a small extent in the Southern Transylvania and the interior regions housed the surviving Avar population in their stateless state.[13][15] According to the archaeological evidence, the Avar population survived the time of the Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin.[16][13] In this power vacuum, The Hungarian conqueror elite took the system of the former Avar Kaganate, there is no trace of massacres and mass graves, it is believed to have been a peaceful transition for local residents in the Carpathian Basin.[16]
In 862, Prince Rastislav of Moravia rebelled against the Franks, and after hiring Magyar troops, won his independence; this was the first time that Hungarians expeditionary troops entered the Carpathian Basin.[17] In 862, Archbishop Hincmar of Reims records the campaign of unknown enemies called "Ungri", giving the first mention of the Hungarians in Western Europe. In 881, the Hungarian forces fought together with the Kabars in the Vienna Basin. According to historian György Szabados and archeologist Miklós Béla Szőke, a group of Hungarians were already living in the Carpathian Basin at that time, so they could quickly intervene in the events of the Carolingian Empire.[18][19][20][21] The number of recorded battles increased from the end of the 9th century.[19] In the late Avar period, a part of Hungarians was already present in the Carpathian Basin in the 9th century, this has been supported by genetic and archaeological research, because there are graves in which Avar descendants are buried in Hungarian clothes.[22] An important segment of this Avar era Hungarians is that the Hungarian county system of King Saint Stephen I may be largely based on the power centers formed during the Avar period.[22] The Hungarians took possession of the Carpathian Basin in a pre-planned manner, with a long move-in between 862–895.[18][19]OrionNimrod (talk) 16:30, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
^Király, Péter (1997). "A magyarok elnevezése a korai európai forrásokban [The Names of the Magyars in Early European Sources]". Honfoglalás és nyelvészet [The Occupation of Our County and Linguistics] (in Hungarian). Budapest: Balassi Kiadó. p. 266. ISBN963-506-108-0.[page needed]
^Bakay, Kornél. Őstörténetünk régészeti forrásai I-III [Archaeological sources of our prehistory Volume I-III] (in Hungarian). ISBN: 963-7528-32-6, 963-7528-40-7, 963-218-087-9 Year of publication: 1997, 1998, 2005.
^László, Gyula (1978). A "kettős honfoglalás" (The "Double Conquest") (in Hungarian). Budapest, Hungary: Magvető Könyvkiadó.
^Cite error: The named reference :12 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ abcCite error: The named reference :83 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^Cite error: The named reference :1b2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^Szabados, György (May 2022). "Álmostól Szent Istvánig" [From Álmos to Saint Stephen]. Rubicon (Hungarian Historical Information Dissemination) (in Hungarian).
^Kosáry Domokos, Bevezetés a magyar történelem forrásaiba és irodalmába 1, p. 29
^ abCite error: The named reference :84 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ abcCite error: The named reference :22 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^Cite error: The named reference :1b3 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^Cite error: The named reference :13 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ abMakoldi, Miklós (December 2021). "A magyarság származása" [The Origin of Hungarians] (PDF). Oktatási Hivatal (Office of Education) (in Hungarian).
The biggest problem of Turanian fantasy is the population genetics, especially the modern Autosomal genetic admixtures. Almost all population of the former communist countries (Slavs or Romanians) cotain higher ratio of Mongoloid/Asatic genetic admixture ratio than modern Hungarians. How can you explain it?--Hefty-priced (talk) 13:38, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can not believe that you have never heard of population genetics. Maybe you confuse the term Mongoloid (around 40% of Global population) with Mongol nation.--Hefty-priced (talk) 18:52, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not know what do you want to say with this genetic data. Please clarify it. OrionNimrod (talk) 18:59, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You have confused the terms of mongoloid with mongol ethnic group. I think you are a turanist, a follower of pseudo historic movement.--Hefty-priced (talk) 09:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not really and I do not know what are you talking about, and what do you want with that mongolid thing because you did not explain your purpose why do you write me regarding this. OrionNimrod (talk) 09:29, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You mentioned László Gyula and his debunked dual conquest theory, which was revoked by him. You believe that Huns and avars are related to Magyars, which is false. That's why it is obvious that you are Turanist fantasta. Hefty-priced (talk) 11:22, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see the turanism means some kind of turkic brotherhood, I do not remember I would write ever about these things. I beleive in the result of the DNA. That is your personal problem if you do not like the science and the result. I also like the very old medieval sources, I also do not think that 1000 years ago the German, Hungarian, Byzantine, Italian, etc authors were turanist who wrote Hungarians related to Huns. Genetic studies revealed that the Huns and Hungarians had a certain relation, especially the ruling class, and the identity of the nation always came from the ruling class. Genetic studies also revealed that the Huns and Hungarians were a very mixed diverse groups, (both mostly Scythian, Sarmatian mix and less Asian), so I really do not think why do you cherry pick only the mongoloid element, which was rather the feature of the Avar elite but not the Avar commoners according to the studies. Regarding today Hungarians, after 600 years (20 generations) everybody has more than 1 million ancestors, what do you expect? But of course people in the same place are mixing each other so the genetic is mostly similar. As Hungarian, in my personal genetic result I have many Asian Hun, Tien Shan Hun, Saka, Tarim mummy, Pazirik Scythian, Asian Scythians, Sarmatians and of course a lot of European Scythian, Hun from Carpathian Basin, and many Avar and Hungarian conqueror sample matches from the proper period which show us the steppe migrations. But of course I have vast amount of local Carpathian Basin sample matches from all ancient periods, because the locals always mixed with the newcomers. I also have German and Slavic sample matches. These things are true for the other Hungarians as I saw many individual results.
You confused [Pan-Turkism]] with Turanism. They are not the same. Turanism also includes fantasy theories of kinship with extinct peoples, e.g. Huns, Scythians, Avars, Sumerians, Etruscans, and also with peoples living today, e.g. Japanese Hungarian Mongols, Native American Indians, Koreans, Finns and Turkic speaking peoples. Interestingly, the pseudo-scientific Turanian origin theory of Hungarians, e.g. kinship with Huns, is 100% consistent with the discrediting narrative propagated by Hungarian-hating Romanian or Slovak nationalists about Hungarians. Hefty-priced (talk)
@Hefty-priced, I am not interested in turanism, however old people did not evaporate but they were the ancestors of the future generations, and all nations mixed in various levels during centuries. Genetics are a real science, morover many of my family members anonym way made a personal test and the DNA company grouped together with them as a family. Also I do not understand what is the business with Hungarian, Romanian, Slovak nationalism that 1000 years old authors wrote Hungarians are related to Huns and Scythians (DNA proved) for example Anglo Saxon map from 1040 wrote in the territory of Hungary "Hun race" Early world maps#Anglo-Saxon Cotton World Map (c. 1040). Please consult with the old high ranked authors from many different countries (sometimes emperor, popes) who wrote this connection, and with modern genetic scholars. OrionNimrod (talk) 15:45, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, you follow the methodes and characteritics of pseudohistory. You also follow the fantaasy of Gesta Hungarorum, which is supported only by Romanian historians.
A „sajátos nemzeti érdekeiket” szem előtt tartó román történészek abszolút hiteles műként szeretik bemutatni a Gesztát a nemzetközi közvélemény előtt. 1987-ben Ceausescu román diktátor kérésére még a New York Times-ban is fizetett hirdetésszerű propagandaanyagot jelentettek meg a Gesta "hitelességének" védelme érdekében.[6]
A magyar történészek viszont kezdetektől bírálták a műnek a honfoglalás korára vonatkozó hitelességét. A gesztában szerepeltetett helyi vezérek vagy államok ugyanis teljesen különböznek attól, ami a régebbi német, bizánci, lengyel és kijevi krónikákban olvasható. Információ hiányában Anonymus fiktív hősöket, vezéreket talál ki, akiket folyókról vagy domborzattal kapcsolatos helynevek után nevezett el. Fiktív hősei a honfoglalás során pedig elképzelt csatákat vívtak elképzelt népek és a honfoglalás korában a Kárpát-medencében nem létező hatalmak ellen.[7] A Honfoglalás korára vonatkozóan az Anonymus által "ősi" Kárpát-medencei etnikumokként szerepeltetett kazárok, kunok, görögök, blakok (románok), csehek és rómaiak a 9. században nem éltek ezen a területen.[8]
Read the article of pseudohistory.
Pseudohistory is purported history which:
Treats myths, legends, sagas and similar literature as literal truthIs neither critical nor skeptical in its reading of ancient historians, taking their claims at face value and ignoring empirical or logical evidence contrary to the claims of the ancients
Is neither critical nor skeptical in its reading of ancient historians, taking their claims at face value and ignoring empirical or logical evidence contrary to the claims of the ancients
Is on a mission, not a quest, seeking to support some contemporary political or religious agenda rather than find out the truth about the past
Often denies that there is such a thing as historical truth, clinging to the extreme skeptical notion that only what is absolutely certain can be called 'true' and nothing is absolutely certain, so nothing is true
Often maintains that history is nothing but mythmaking and that different histories are not to be compared on such traditional academic standards as accuracy, empirical probability, logical consistency, relevancy, completeness, fairness or honesty, but on moral or political grounds
Is selective in its use of ancient documents, citing favorably those that fit with its agenda, and ignoring or interpreting away those documents which do not fit
Considers the possibility of something being true as sufficient to believe it is true if it fits with one's agenda
Often maintains that there is a conspiracy to suppress its claims because of racism, atheism or ethnocentrism, or because of opposition to its political or religious agenda[9]
Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke prefers the term "cryptohistory". He identifies two necessary elements as "a complete ignorance of the primary sources" and the repetition of "inaccuracies and wild claims".[10][11]
Other common characteristics of pseudohistory are:
The arbitrary linking of disparate events so as to form – in the theorist's opinion – a pattern. This is typically then developed into a conspiracy theory postulating a hidden agent responsible for creating and maintaining the pattern. For example, the pseudohistorical The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail links the Knights Templar, the medieval Grail Romances, the Merovingian Frankish dynasty and the artist Nicolas Poussin in an attempt to identify lineal descendants of Jesus.
Hypothesising the consequences of unlikely events that "could" have happened, thereby assuming tacitly that they did.
Sensationalism, or shock value
Cherry picking, or "law office history", evidence that helps the historical argument being made and suppressing evidence that hurts it.[12] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hefty-priced (talk • contribs) 15:52, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please consult with the genetic scholars and not with me, that the genetic result are wrong according to you... OrionNimrod (talk) 16:13, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, your Magyarságkutató Intézet is not considered real scientific organization, since their researchers had no hiigh academic rank or rank at the universities, it was established as political propaganda tool of the recent governemnt, it is part of the NER.
You try to avoid the answer: Why do you use the charateristics of pseudo history? Why do you try to follow unreliable fairly-tale books, like Gesta Hungarorum, which can be called as the Holy script of Romanians. Why do you support such laughable theories like turanism, which is 100% in line with anti-Hungarian Romanian and Slovak propagandas?
Thank you for your answer. (Please do not avoid any questions, and do no cherry pick only a single topic of this discussion.--Hefty-priced (talk) 18:03, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My family did genetic test with: 23andme is USA, MyTrueAncestry is Swiss company, my closest ancient population is Scythian, and I can see many Hun sample matches. Please consult with them too that you do not beleive in their result, that is your problem not mine. 1000 years old German, Hungarian authors, Byzantine emperors, ... etc were clearly not turanist. OrionNimrod (talk) 18:08, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are no Scythian option in genetic tests. Neither genetic testing companies use such pseudo-scientific terms when they sent the results of the tests vie e-mail. There are several pseudo-scientific game calculators (or clown calculators) where you can upload the DNA test files, and give you anceient fantasy ancestors. They are used often by nationalist teenagers instead of serious adult people.
--Hefty-priced (talk) 18:15, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are thousand of archeogenetic analyzed samples, and scholars are uploading them to the archeogenetic database. And the DNA of modern population are compared with them. That is still not my problem that you deny the existence of it.
I suggest to read the genetics section of this article: https://wiki.alquds.edu/?query=Scytho-Siberian_world#Genetics
If you were real scythian, than you would had non-European (non-White) partially Asian/Mongoloid genetics, which is very unusual in Hungary. Asian admixture is more common among Eastern Slavic and Romanian population.--Hefty-priced (talk) 19:58, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see Scythians have European genetic OrionNimrod (talk) 20:07, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody see tham true europeans among archeogeneticist. East erasian admxture is determinant in them (it means mongoloid aka Asian genetics) Learn: Ancient genomic time transect from the Central Asian Steppe unravels the history of the Scythians Link: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abe4414 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hefty-priced (talk • contribs) 14:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you say the ancient population above Black Sea (Scyhia) in Europe was Mongoloid? (There are also blond Scythian mummies in western China.) Morover Scythians were in the Carpathian Basin also: Agathyrsi.
Scythians as an ethnic group were born in the borderlands of Eastern Europe and Central Asia, thus their Mongoloid / Causcaisan admixture is not surprising but expected. Scythians were not so advanced to create any aristically signifficant values, most of their gold and sylver artifacts were created by Greek and Persian masters.--Hefty-priced (talk) 17:04, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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I am writing because you are clearly interested in the medieval history of Hungary. In the recent period, many developments have been made in order to genetically identify the members of the Árpád dynasty (and also the Hunyadi family), which is a joint project of the Szeged Archeology Center and MKI (The royal tombs of Székesfehérvár, the Reliquary of St. Ladislaus, the identification of graves by radiocarbon analysis, either in Egres or Abasár, etc.). I think that a separate article could be written about this, where the current development could always be expanded. I am happy to undertake this, but I think my background knowledge is not enough. However, it would be good to collect the sources (MKI has published monographs on the subject in English). What do you think about this? I also wrote about the matter to another editor User:Gyalu22, who is also active in the topic of medieval history. Norden1990 (talk) 15:28, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Norden1990 and Gyalu22! I am happy to participate in this with you. I think I have a good knowledge about the topic because I usually follow those researches, and also I have many sources regarding this. Also they have a youtube channel, many videos where they explain the result to make it more understandable, and also they are making many kind of history conference with many kind of scholars, with foreign scholars also. I and my family also have personal genetic result and I saw many genetic result from other Hungarian people, and these results are in harmony with the genetic results of the MKI.
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Hi. You provided a link but I cannot access the website. The portrait definitely does not look contemporary. Could you please provide some details about the source publication and also about the file (author, date, etc)? Surtsicna (talk) 18:27, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is very rare to find contemporary medieval portraits. For example, many other similar articles use non-contemporary portraits (because contemporary portraits not available) List of Hungarian monarchs, please check the ruler articles. It is very strange that links does not work for me at the moment, but it worked and I downloaded the book some hours earlier, please try later. This is the book of the Este family: Genealogia dei principi d'Este
A portrait is not required. Per MOS:LEADIMAGE, it is better not to have a portrait than to have a poor portrait. That 15th-century miniature looks very much out of place, in my opinion, because the subject is a 13th-century woman. It is especially jarring that she is dressed in Renaissance fashion. I think a wider image would be appropriate at House of Este, but not necessarily in individual articles on people who lived much earlier. Surtsicna (talk) 19:18, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Follow your logic we could remove all portrait from all historical persons before 15th century. OrionNimrod (talk) 19:21, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Surtsicna, Do you think these non contemporary portraits are better? Should we remove them? I do not think so. You know many paintings and satues were erected much later to represent historical persons.
WP:OTHERCONTENT is a very good essay: that crap exists in other articles is no reason to have crap in this article. The examples you listed include a legendary person (of whom, naturally, there can be no contemporary portrait); a nearly contemporary depiction (also a likeness) made for the subject's tomb by a famous sculptor; and a nearly contemporary portrait made from the memory of eyewitnesses and universally associated with the subject. They are not comparable to an obscure illustration made two centuries after the subject lived. Does this illustration appear in any biographies or reference works on Beatrice? Surtsicna (talk) 19:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So you do not like when her own Este family made a family book later about the family members? We can ask third opinions about this, but following your logic we could remove thousand of infobox images, I think users were not happy. If we do not have contemporary portrait, still I do not understand why would be problem to use later depictions. Almost all medieval wiki pages full with them. I think you know there are hundred of future depictions of famous peoples, battles. Forbid to use them? Or you have problem only in the usage in the infobox? But we can use in the article as mention "depiction in X book from 1500? OrionNimrod (talk) 20:54, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do not like it when we use as lead images those illustrations that are not used in reliable sources discussing the subject, especially academic (scholarly) ones. Those images belong in the body of an article, preferably a "Legacy" section or something similar. The lead image should inform, not merely decorate and certainly not confuse. Surtsicna (talk) 05:44, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand what you mean. But following to this thinking, we could remove all images from all persons in the medieval times. For example we could remove the images almost from all kings, because the majority of them are not contemporary. OrionNimrod (talk) 09:15, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is not quite true. Most have contemporary images. But they do not have to be contemporary if they are commonly associated with the subject. This image is probably not found in any source discussing Beatrice's life. But if you feel so strongly about it, let's at least have a caption warning the reader that the image does not represent what she looked like or even what any 13th-century woman could have looked like. Surtsicna (talk) 18:04, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do not understand why would be a problem if the own Este family made a illustrated family book later about the family members. Which is clearly associated to the subject. We can mention where is the image, 15th century depiction from that book, etc. OrionNimrod (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is very good to see that you are making a more informative table of the list of Hungarian rulers. However, it would be nice if the article was accompanied by sources. For instance,
Báling, Péter (2021). Az Árpád-ház hatalmi kapcsolatrendszerei. Rokonok, barátok és dinasztikus konfliktust Kelet-Közép-Európában a 11. században és a 12. század elején [The Power Relations of the Árpád Dynasty. Relatives, Friends and Dynastic Conflict in East-Central Europe in the 11th Century and Early 12th Century] (in Hungarian). Arpadiana VII., Research Centre for the Humanities. ISBN978-963-416-246-9.
Kristó, Gyula; Makk, Ferenc (1996). Az Árpád-ház uralkodói [Rulers of the House of Árpád] (in Hungarian). I.P.C. Könyvek. ISBN963-7930-97-3.
Wertner, Mór (1892). Az Árpádok családi története [Family History of the Árpáds] (in Hungarian). Szabó Ferencz N.-eleméri plébános & Pleitz Fer. Pál Könyvnyomdája.
I have doubts about some dates, however. For example, it is impossible that Andrew III would have been king on 10 July 1290, since he was still in captivity in Austria on the day of the assassination of Ladislaus IV. He was smuggled out of the country by the monks of Archbishop Lodomer. On the other hand, Coloman had to fight for the crown with his brother Álmos following the death of Ladislaus I, and was crowned king only in early 1096. Just one more comment: in the case of Charles I and Louis I, would it not be more appropriate to use the contemporary depictions (the miniatures of the Illuminated Chronicle)? But these are just small comments, the list itself is very impressive and informative. I'm glad to see that medieval Hungarian history is of interest to someone other than me here on Wikipedia. Norden1990 (talk) 23:21, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Norden1990 (talk), thanks for your kind feedback! I did it according to my best knowledge, I checked both Hungarian and English wiki regarding the kings. You can update that content which you think it is not perfect, or maybe with this: (?). I think in modern times it is more attractive and easier to learn if we could combine the good informations with good design. I already updated the full Chronicon Pictum, however I plan to buy the book and use much better photos later, I also started to update the Chronica Hungarorum so later we can easier use the best quality images. I also made many work on wiki common, descriptions, category, uploads regarding the subject. For example what do you think about the coat of arms before Stephen? Chronicles said it was the Turul. OrionNimrod (talk) 09:53, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for April 11[edit]
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited István Kniezsa, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hungarian.
Hello, I already talked with @Borsoka and she let the text I wrote in. Historians' consensus is that his father was Vlach/Romanian and there are only legends about his mother two centuries later. Talk with @Borsoka. I will put back what I wrote. Ninhursag3 (talk) 06:50, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
John Hunyadi'S father was Wallachian/Vlach. Wallachian and Wallachia come from Vlach (exonym from German that means Romance/Latin language speaker). Vlachs called themselves Romanians. Ninhursag3 (talk) 07:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
John Hunyadi's mother is unknown according to contemporary sources. Only that she was born before 1400 in order to give birth to John Hunyadi. Gáspár Heltai notoriously reworked Antonio Bonfini's Ten Volumes of Hungarian Matters (written between 1488 and 1497) which Heltai published in 1575 as "Chronicle of the Hungarians’ Past Deeds" and added his own text to it. Including adding Erzsébet Morzsinai as Voyk's wife and John Hunyadi's mother. Ninhursag3 (talk) 07:27, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please use the talk page of the article. I do not see that Borsoka would agree with anything. OrionNimrod (talk) 09:30, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you want proof, the best proof is the fact that @Borsoka left my last edit alone before you changed it. You can ask her. I already talked with her about the topic. Not about John Hunyadi's mother though. I made a topic on the John Hunyadi page, please read it. Thank you in advance, have a nice day. Ninhursag3 (talk) 10:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your edit to Vlach law has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. — Diannaa (talk) 21:31, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Diannaa, sorry for that, I will be more careful. I already rephrase every sentences what I use from source to respect copyright, probably I was not enough carefully in this case, however I changed the text, it seems it was not enough modification. OrionNimrod (talk) 08:00, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Van egy új tanulmány az 1332-37. évi pápai tizedjegyzékről, amely esetleg érdekes lehet számomra, itt. Norden1990 (talk) 20:34, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Köszönöm, jók a térképek benne! OrionNimrod (talk) 09:44, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
POV-pushing regarding the origins of the Romanians[edit]
I've already warned you once. I am warning you again to appropriately portray academic discourse regarding the origin of the Romanians. In Decree of Turda, you've only included Hungarian sources referring to the Romanians as settlers in Transylvania. If you show you're not able to edit Wikipedia from a neutral point of view showing both viewpoints in a heavily controversial area you will be sanctioned. The solution here is to either use sources showing both viewpoints or at the very least attribute the sources you use ("according to X, whatever"). If you cannot do this I am going to report you to the administrators. SuperΨDro 10:25, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Super! As Hungarian editor I have almost only Hungarian sources and you can see I am focusing only Hungarian topics: User:OrionNimrod There are many common Hungarian and Romanian historical events, so sometimes the articles regarding each other. All Hungarian sources universally claim the Romanians as settlers in Transylvania, which is part of the Hungarian history, I cannot do anything, because this is the Hungarian historiography and knowledge. Decree of Turda and List of Papal Tithes from 1332–1337 in the Kingdom of Hungary made by medieval Hungarian administration so Hungarians sources know about them. Also I know a lot of non Hungarian historians from many countries who claim the same, the reason is simple, because Hungarian historiography (and German, Austrian, Polish...) does not know about any Romanian presence in the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary before 1200, example: British historian about Hungary, Martyn Rady book: "The sources consistently refer to Wallachia as being a largely uninhabited woodland before the thirteenth century, and, until this time, they contain no explicit references to Vlachs either here or anywhere in Hungary and Transylvania." I do not know Romanian language, I do not know the Romanian sources, and I see most of the articles the Romanian POV already presented while the Hungarian is not. I asked at the Papa Tithes source to ask Romanian contributors to extend it. However probably you are right, and those content belongs better to the history of Transylvania where already both POV are presented. I understand that you say both POV should mention, that is why I do not understand because after you reverts the Decree of Turda article represents only the Romanian POV. Earlier this edit [2] incited me to represent the Hungarian POV, and earlier that article represented only the Romanian POV. Which one, you can see it was questioned also by Borsoka because the decree of Torda does not mention any religious things, and I showed the Hungarian POV to explain the reason for the harsh actions toward Romanians. I agree with you, I can use "according to X", in this article I did this: Vlach law, please check it, what do you think? (however many Romanian claim should also write "according to Romanian historiography", and I think in many case not only Hungarians claim the same, so it is hard to phrase). OrionNimrod (talk) 19:26, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is not true that all non-Romanian scholars support the commonly held view by Hungarians. As an example of a scholar supporting the Daco-Roman continuity theory there is Keith Hitchins. This is a notion that you should not count with. In Hungary, virtually all scholars support the immigrationist theory, in Romania the same with the Daco-Roman one, but international scholars are mixed. I've honestly seen more supporting the Daco-Roman continuity one but I assume this might be due to my own bias which might be what has happened to you.
I don't know Hungarian either however today in the Internet era it is easy to translate sources. If I had do I could pick some Romanian sources and translate some Hungarian ones and synthesize and balance the information present to them in a neutrally-written article. This is what you should do, it is complicated but required. This is one of the reasons I avoid the Transylvania feuds in Wikipedia, almost all historiography is blatantly nationalist, there's a lot of trash. I please ask you to treat this topic with more care in the future as I don't like seeing articles in Wikipedia addressing the Hungarian view only as a Romanian. You've told me the same happens to you regarding the Romanian view, and you're on your right, that needs fixing too, but that shouldn't mean that some articles should therefore only show the Hungarian view like some show the Romanian one only. Ideally this should motivate contributing to the feat that all articles become neutral and balanced, adding Hungarian views to those articles and writing neutral ones. Otherwise you'd be further contributing to the problem rather than fixing anything.
And yes, Romanian sources should also be attributed when necessary. I didn't imply that all Hungarian sources must be attributed all the time by the way, only the possibly controversial statements should. An example: which was not resolved and was further complicated by legal and social aspects of the settlement of Romanians in the Hungarian counties. This is simply showing the Romanians as settlers and presenting it as a factual statement when it is not known if that was the case. This is a controversial statement and it needs to be attributed. Info treating more inoffensive matters, which will be most of the info in an article unless about a topic like Origin of the Romanians, doesn't have to be attributed. I assume what happened in the case that I cited that a primary historical source mentioned the Romanians in a context of problems in Transylvania and the author you cited, Benedek Jancsó, combined this information with his already set in stone view that Romanians are migrants and wrote that it is precisely the settler Romanians, because of their settling, that were causing the problems. Maybe the historical source did mention the Romanians as directly causing the problems but I would not be surprised if Jancsó exaggerated it. Maybe you're now seeing the problem in this academic area. Many authors interpret the sources to favor their views.
By the way, I don't know why would you think an info presenting Romanians as violent people attacking fields and stealing and killing each other was a good idea. It seriously makes me concerned about what do you consider is appropriate for an article. You even presented this as factual, unattributed. I am 100% sure no such article does the same about Hungarians. There is a point in which we have to question the author's professionality. It probably also matters that the source is from 1931 right after the Treaty of Trianon in isolated Hungary. Historical context is important to consider, like you would I would not blindly trust the integrity of a Romanian source talking about Northern Transylvania in 1942. See also the Wikipedia policy WP:AGEMATTERS.
And yes, I am aware of the edits you mention at Decree of Turda. I reverted them too because I realized you added those edits because of that. Next time though, the best solution could be starting a discussion with the user that added the information you disagree with.
Lastly a note. By attributing I mean "According to János Bárth", or "János Bárth argues that". "According to X historiography" is too general and would get repeated too often in an article. SuperΨDro 20:45, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Super! I see you are nice and smart. I understand what you mean, I can accept, because I agree Wiki should be a great and high quality intellectual material, which should present all academic views. Could you cooperate with me in those cases where the topic is sensible and the Hungarian and Romanian POV are different? Because I know the Hungarian sources, you know the Romanian sources it would be good to publish both POVs regarding the same topic. OrionNimrod (talk) 10:10, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately Transylvania is not among my interests, I am more interested in diaspora areas like Bukovina, Timok Valley or Transnistria. I would say Transylvania if not second to Bessarabia is the primary region in the mind of Romanian patriots so you will be able to find other Romanian editors in this topic area, hopefully with good intentions.
By the way, you made a good job here [3]. I'm glad to see you've understood these concepts quickly. The only other thing I'd note is the format of references. There's two ways of citing: <ref> etiquettes and sfn templates. Do you understand what I did here [4]? Because consistency should be kept if an article is written using sfn templates. Hopefully you will be able to understand how do those templates work, though if necessary I can explain you.
I don't have any other issue with your edits. Many thanks for your understanding and cooperation. I apologize if my tone might've been harsh at first. SuperΨDro 14:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ha esetleg Bulcsú cikkét jelentősen ki tudnád bővíteni a közeljövőben, az nagyszerű lenne. Én nem igazán vagyok otthon a magyar őstörténetben + a nagyfejedelemség korában, ezért nem is nyúltam még hozzá. De mégis csak a 10. században legtöbbet emlegetett magyar törzsszövetségi vezetőről van szó. Forrást, ha gondolod, segíthetek összegyűjteni a számodra. Norden1990 (talk) 15:56, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Köszi, mindenképp meglesem. Bár az igazat megvallva, azért Kásler nálam valahol az ezoterikus őstörténet határán mozog. --Norden1990 (talk) 21:49, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Norden1990, Ha megnezted kivancsian meghallgatnam hogy szerinted mi nem stimmelt abban amit mondott, ha lesz ilyen abban az eloadasban. Nekem jo osszefoglalonak tunt, Bulcsu is benne van azert jutott eszembe. OrionNimrod (talk) 02:28, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Ottoman army did not retreat, Mehmed handed the siege to his pasha and marched on the Hungarian army. Keremmaarda (talk) 14:22, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion[edit]
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.
Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!
Battle of Tárnok Valley and Battle of Zeiselmauer[edit]
Szia! A tárnokvölgyi csatáról illetve az ahhoz kapcsolódó hun-magyar hagyományról jelent meg egy új tanulmány Veszprémy László tollából a legújabb Hadtörténelmi Közleményekben (2023. 1. sz. március). Később majd ingyenesen is letölthető lesz a szám. Norden1990 (talk) 20:52, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Látom sok csatát kidolgoztál, esetleg megtennéd azok esetében amiket te írtál (tehát gyorsan és jobban tudod) hogy röviden beírnád a lényeget hasonló módon ahogy pl Kálmán király háborúinál beírtam ide: List of wars involving Hungary? OrionNimrod (talk) 09:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Egyelőre nem elérhető (szerintem csak jövő év elején lesz az), de átküldhetem e-mailben, mert a könyvtárban kifényképeztem. --Norden1990 (talk) 21:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Szia @Norden1990! Az nagyszerű lenne! Be van állítva hogy innen tudsz írni emailt. Akkor ha visszajelzek ott tudod is küldeni a fájlt. Köszönöm! OrionNimrod (talk) 08:55, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Szia@Norden1990! Elküldtem levélben innen az email címemet, esetleg küldtél fotót mert még nem látom? OrionNimrod (talk) 11:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Bocsánat, csak most volt időm, elvileg elküldtem a fotókat. --Norden1990 (talk) 21:04, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy deletion nomination of Rerum Hungaricarum Decades[edit]
Hello OrionNimrod,
I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Rerum Hungaricarum Decades for deletion, because it's a redirect from an article title to a namespace that's not for articles.
If you don't want Rerum Hungaricarum Decades to be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.
You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!
Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.
Your edit to Sopronbánfalva has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. Azure94 (talk) 15:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Diannaa, @DanCherek, I contacting with you because you are part of the copyright team. An user started a harrassment campaign (WP:HARASS) against me, he follows me on many articles with personal insults, blacklist persons, he deleted now content (the full chapter, every single sentences as personal revenge) what I wrote myself with my own words as allegedly "copyright violation". https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sopronbánfalva&diff=prev&oldid=1168067789
Well this is the English Wikipedia, and the source text was not English what I used, I also used several sources adding/removing contents by my own taste and using my own language to write the article following the sourced contents. Because Wikipedia needs reliable sources, it means we can adapt the same content just change the language to avoid copyright issue. Please check the full text which was written by me and which was removed by the user, please check it whether it is violate any copyright or not. OrionNimrod (talk) 16:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
it means we can adapt the same content just change the language to avoid copyright issue
Sorry, but no. You can't "avoid" copyright by just switching the language used. A cursory glance at the article shows that you lifted entire paragraphs outright. Azure94 (talk) 16:25, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A word for word translation or even a paraphrase is not okay, as it violates our copyright policy. The content needs to be re-written completely, in your own words. — Diannaa (talk) 18:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under license allowed by Wikipedia, then you should do one of the following:
If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted "under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (CC BY-SA), version 4.0", or that the work is released into the public domain, or if you have strong reason to believe it is, leave a note at Talk:Sopronbánfalva with a link to where we can find that note or your explanation of why you believe the content is free for reuse.
Otherwise, you may rewrite this article from scratch. If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at this temporary page. Leave a note at Talk:Sopronbánfalva saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved.
Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Azure94 (talk) 16:06, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have sent you a note about a page you started[edit]
To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Scope creep}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)
Hi, In the field battle, the Turks are chasing the Hungarians back to the castle. It is common for Mehmed to be injured because Mehmed was trying to gather his army on the battlefield. Seeing that Mehmed was fighting, the Ottoman soldiers quickly united and attacked the Crusader army and pushed the Hungarians back into the castle. After this war, the Hungarians lost their former power, they could not raise such a large army even in the Battle of Mohacs (although there was crusader support). That's why I wrote the Pyrrhic victory. And İsmail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı says that he prevented a crusade from taking place thanks to the resistance of the Turks in the field battle. I would be grateful if you read and evaluate my comment. Keremmaarda (talk) 11:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I see you have some alternative history about this, you can study this, that siege is very popular, none of them claim your fringe claimes, you need to study them:
"Pyrrhic victory" the siege of Belgrade in 1456"??? Article itself say that victory stopped for 70! years the Ottoman adavance. Noon bell came from that victory. "Turk won the battlefield"? How? Hungarians defeated the Ottomans at battlefiled, the sultan wounded the Ottomans retreated fast. That siege is the most famous Hungarian victory against Ottomans.
It start to be boring the defacing of all Hungarian-Ottoman battle articles with many similar probably sockpuppet accounts. OrionNimrod (talk) 12:06, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Kings And Generals page is not a safe source. It contains a lot of wrong information about Mehmed. https://youtube.com/eOxQhnqMfp4
From the link I gave you, if there are subtitles, you can watch the video in detail and understand what I'm talking about. I can give you a lot of sources that the Turks won the field battle. You once told me "we use academic resources given by historians". So why don't you use it now, Mr. OrionNimrod? Keremmaarda (talk) 12:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The link I gave is briefly "Harp Tarihi-Belgrad kuşatmas" You can reach it by writing. Keremmaarda (talk) 12:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That links were examples that the battle is well researched, you can find many academic sources about the battle. OrionNimrod (talk) 12:26, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Historians has different POV that is why "4000-34000" include more sources, we need use what is in the academic historical documents not by our opinion. I added additonal Hungarian sources from the biggest and detailed Hungarian military history book." You gave me this argument for the Kosovo war. Tansel, Uzunçarşılı and many Turkish historians say that the Turks won the pitched battle. Now why not stick to your own argument? Keremmaarda (talk) 12:44, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is valid. I doubt you have sources which say that siege of Belgrade 1456 was not a Hungarian victory or pyric victory :D You know the flat earth theory has followers but it is fringe because mainstream academic has different opinion. I added just estimations and I did not rewrite complete the battle as you want. OrionNimrod (talk) 12:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I did not deny that the war was a Hungarian victory. I'm just saying that your Hungarians are war-torn. That's why I wrote the Pyrrhic victory. The battle in front of the castle, which took place in the victory campaign I mentioned, and the Turks here prevent the crusader army. İsmail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı says that he prevented the crusade from taking place. Ismail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı is a historian, isn't he? Keremmaarda (talk) 13:42, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do not know what the Turks prevented, they retreat hasten when they were defeated front of the caslte, the sultan was wounded and faint.
In many battles both parties have great losses and it does not mean all of them was pyrrhic victory, in the case of Belgrade the Hungarians did not loss full their army. I do not your historian you do nor provide any link to any academic book. I doubt you have any historical source which say that Belgrade battle would be pyrrhic victory. Wiki is not a personal blog. OrionNimrod (talk) 14:10, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mr. OrionNimrod, only Hungarian cavalry 12 thousand how can there be 4 thousand trained soldiers? Is the situation dire enough for the Hungarian king to land only 4,000 soldiers? Were the Hungarians such a bad kingdom? And the pope is declaring mobilization, and soldiers come in droves from almost every state.The number of untrained soldiers (beggars, peasants) consists of 10 thousand people. King John Hunyadi is sending them ahead anyway. Keremmaarda (talk) 09:13, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway I will check the data in the biggest Hungarian military history book. OrionNimrod (talk) 09:44, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, the Turkish translation of Andre Clot said in his book that there were 12 thousand horsemen and 1,000 spahi. And I never wrote that there was an Ottoman victory. I said that the Turks won the pitched battle, which is true. https://683701.site123.me/yaz%C4%B1lar/fatih-sultan-mehmed-in-bat%C4%B1-seferleri Examine the page. When the Grand Viziers offered to retreat to the Sultan, Sultan Mehmed took his sword and knocked down the three people who came upon him and started to counterattack. This move rallied the dispersed army and prevented a possible defeat. Sultan Fatih was injured in his forehead and calf during this battle. While this would have been a terrible defeat for an ordinary ruler, it was just a bad experience for the Great Turk. Because a few months would be enough for him to gather the army he lost again and make up for his deficiencies. The human resources and economic power of the Ottoman Empire were the most obvious indicators of this. While the new preparations were made, Fatih Sultan Mehmed organized a magnificent circumcision wedding for his sons Beyazıd and Mustafa to fix his deteriorated image. Big Turk, He says that Mehmed prevented the defeat and that he recovered in a short time.If the Turks stopped advancing for 70 years, how was Bosnia invaded and captured? And only Mihaloğlu Ali Bey has more than 100 influxes to Hungary.While Mehmed was rapidly gathering large armies before 1 year passed, the Hungarians could not raise armies as large as before.Keremmaarda (talk) 10:42, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"When the Grand Viziers offered to retreat to the Sultan, Sultan Mehmed took his sword and knocked down the three people who came upon him and started to counterattack. This move rallied the dispersed army and prevented a possible defeat. Sultan Fatih was injured in his forehead and calf during this battle. While this would have been a terrible defeat for an ordinary ruler, it was just a bad experience for the Great Turk. Because a few months would be enough for him to gather the army he lost again and make up for his deficiencies. The human resources and economic power of the Ottoman Empire were the most obvious indicators of this. While the new preparations were made"
It says " this would have been a terrible defeat for an ordinary ruler, it was just a bad experience for the Great Turk. Because a few months would be enough for him to gather the army he lost again and make up for his deficiencies." which means the sultan was defeated but the empire was strong, so he could gather again a new army for the future, which means the defeat was not a fatal for him.
The Ottomans advance in Europe was stopped for 70 years = they did not enter in Hungary. Bosnia was south from Hungary. OrionNimrod (talk) 11:51, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He says that the sultan prevented the defeat and gathered the army again. If the rout was averted, how could the Turks have lost the pitched battle? Yes, the source I gave is a reliable and academic page. I admit that the general campaign was a Hungarian victory. What I am talking about is the field battle in front of the castle. And Bosnia is a kind of vassal under Hungarian rule. In fact, Turkish sources write that Serbia and Bosnia are tired of the Catholic Hungarian domination. Keremmaarda (talk) 12:29, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I want to add something too. Taking İsmail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı as a reference about the Mohaç war, he said 150 thousand people to the Hungarian army. İsmail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı says 300 thousand people for the Ottoman army. Since İsmail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı is an old historian, he cannot benefit from modern sources on army numbers. That's why I think it is wrong to base the sources on the army numbers. You can read the Mohaç section of the PDF I sent you. It says 300 thousand to the Ottoman army and 150 thousand to the Hungarian army. Keremmaarda (talk) 22:18, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, I have no connection with him. Only one thing we have in common is that we both research Ottoman History Göktuğ538538 (talk) 00:13, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, I've said it many times. I just said that İsmail Hakkı refers to the number of armies he gave about the Hungarians. If the sources of İsmail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı in the number of the army are taken as a reference, it is necessary to write 300 thousand people to the Ottoman Empire. But this is a huge number for that period because Halil İnalcık says that there were a maximum of 117 thousand active soldiers during the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent. Ismail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı should not be taken as a reference regarding the number of armies within the two sides. Good day Mr OrionNimrod Keremmaarda (talk) 02:53, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The same thing is mentioned in Yılmaz Öztuna's book called Suleiman the Magnificent, pages 39-40
You can look at Joseph von Hammer's Ottoman History, Volume 5, page 76. Oda says that the Hungarian forces were that big, yes, modern estimates do not accept this, but some sources mention these figures. Göktuğ538538 (talk) 00:11, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Let's be objective, if the Hungarians were recruiting more soldiers than the Ottomans during the reign of Sultan Suleiman, the most powerful state of that period was the Hungarians, not the Ottomans. Just in case, the army of Suleiman the Magnificent should be larger. Keremmaarda (talk) 02:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
These users (or this sockpuppet user) always edit only the info boxes, rewrite many Ottoman battle articles to Ottoman victory, or if Ottoman lost he rewrite like "Ottomans just went home from a "picnic" due to the bad weather", he decrease always the number of Ottoman army and casualties while he always increase the number of enemy and their casualties. Even he rewrote the the famous Siege of Belgrade was just a pyrrhic Hungarian victory (which stopped the Ottomans for 70 years) and he rewrote the Turks won the battle. He always remove modern academic sources and replace it with 200-500 years sources with bad referencing stlye that hard to check if true of twisted.
Hello OrionNimrod! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Chronica Hungarorum, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted material from other websites or printed works. This article appears to contain work copied from [13][14][15][16], and therefore to constitute a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted. While we appreciate your contributions, copying content from other websites is unlawful and against Wikipedia's copyright policy. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators are likely to lose their editing privileges.
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Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Azure94 (talk) 09:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Bratislava. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Points to note:
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Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.Azure94 (talk) 16:14, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do not enter into email correspondence with other editors but you can leave a message to my Talk page any time. Borsoka (talk) 03:29, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not report disruptive editing, or the use of questionable maps, to me. You may report disruptive editing at WP:ANI, which sometimes deals effectively with disruption, but sometimes the discussion either becomes bogged down or becomes a great monster. You may also report disruptive editing in a contentious topic area at Arbitration Enforcement, and, as you saw, I have notified NeimWiki that Eastern Europe is a contentious topic. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:35, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the feedback! OrionNimrod (talk) 16:05, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The principality of Moldavia is in the alliance alongside Venice. And all wars that took place between 1463 and 1479 are included in that category. Keremmaarda (talk) 08:17, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please use the talk page of the article. OrionNimrod (talk) 10:25, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Personally not, he sent an army which commended Bathory, I think we can talk on the talk page of the battle. Need check the details. OrionNimrod (talk) 07:48, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So, do you have any Hungarian sources about Mihaloğlu Ali Bey's raid on Hungary in 1463? Keremmaarda (talk) 08:26, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Mr. Orion Nimrod, do you have any sources that give the number of the Ottoman army in the siege of Belgrade according to different Hungarian sources? Are there any Hungarian sources that say there are 30 thousand people? Keremmaarda (talk) 13:29, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! Which siege, there were many siege of Belgrade. OrionNimrod (talk) 14:46, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Mr. OrionNimrod. Have you ever seen any sources mentioning such a war in period Hungarian documents or historians? Keremmaarda (talk) 19:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for October 28[edit]
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Though our points of view differ, please refrain from reverting my edits 3 times. I request that you restore my content and start a conversation on the talk page.
Hi @Elvisisalive95, thanks for the link, it would be good to place in the article talk page also. [17]
Kingdom of Hungary had more or less 1000 years long the same borders. But in 1920, 2/3 of its territory with 1/3 ethnic Hungarians were taken away by the Treaty of Trianon. Hard to understand why, but this is a common practice in the new states which got territory from Hungary (Romania, Slovakia) to claim everybody else (mostly famous Hungarians) how lived in the region what they got as own ethnic person even if that person lived 1000 years ago when those states and nations did not exist at all.
That is why Johnny Weismüller became "Romanian" or the famous German rocket engineer also: [18] There are extreme examples when King Stephen of Hungary (997-1038) claimed as "Romanian king" or even as "Slovak king", or the old Hungarian script claimed as both Romanian or Slovak, etc...
Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion[edit]
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.
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Feel free not to participate in the discussion if you do not wish to, I have included you as you were the only other participant in the talk page discussion, it'd have been more rude not to include you in my view. Thanks for your participation so far by the way, I will mention the professional formation of İbrahim Akyol if given the chance. If you find anything notable about Muhittin Eliaçık, please let me know, either here or there. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 17:31, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Mr. OrionNimrod. I will probably get a permanent ban. I wanted to thank you before I go. When I first started Wikipedia, you were my first interlocutor, you treated me like a human being and responded to my discussions and topics. You were the first to teach me right and wrong here. Maybe you hate me, maybe you will complain about me, but I see you as my friend and you are the only editor you care about here. That's why I wanted to say goodbye to you. Even though we argued and fought, we had good memories with you here (at least for me). See you brother, take care. Keremmaarda (talk) 09:52, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Keremmaarda, thanks for your kind words! I think just follow the rules, be kind. Because it is an international team it is normal that there are many different views by historians for certain events. If they realiable modern academic sources, we can present more views, (if not fringe, like the flat earth theory). Do not make edit war, just use talk page and make a consensus. Regarding the sources, example: I think this Turkish movie about the siege of Contantinople cannot be a reliabe historian source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4TOUrxzd28 like this Hungarian movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04CZI0A0Vgw about the siege of Eger cannot be reliable academic historian source, because that is just cinema. OrionNimrod (talk) 15:50, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your Scythian turan comrades tried to make a putch against the Hungarian state[edit]
Can you see what can be the result of pseudohistoric lullabies?--Hefty-priced (talk) 20:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
please stop personal harassment, I am not interested in your things OrionNimrod (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not harrasent, but a fact. Another article about Scythian terrorist coup. These lesser educated people (proletarians craftsmen) also beleive in your Scythian fantasies.
Hello. I have noticed that you often edit without using an edit summary. Please do your best to always fill in the summary field. This helps your fellow editors use their time more productively, rather than spending it unnecessarily scrutinizing and verifying your work. Even a short summary is better than no summary, and summaries are particularly important for large, complex, or potentially controversial edits. To help yourself remember, you may wish to check the "prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" box in your preferences. Thanks! Avishai11 (talk) 16:15, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
thanks for the feedback, sometimes I am making new articles and complete rewrite or extend chapters, and if I do a lot of edit, it would be hard to make notes for every single changes, but I will do my best! OrionNimrod (talk) 16:18, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I checked some of my edit, I think because I did a lot of new articles, I usually did not make log in these edits while they were under working progress or minor edits. Some examples:
Do you think the emtpy log is ok in these case when developing progress? OrionNimrod (talk) 20:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @OrionNimrod, sorry for the late response. I think that if the edit is relatively minor, you can just use one work like, "spelling", "clean-up", etc. I think that if there are multiple edits within a couple hours, then maybe for the last edit of the day for that page, provide a longer description. I honestly don't know. Thank you! Sorry if that sounded confusing. Best, @Avishai11Avishai11 (talk) 21:46, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dude, we've been having a lot of discussions on the articles under Ottoman war history. We keep accusing each other of number vandalism. If you want to have a mutual exchange of information on this topic, we can exchange private messages. My problem is not to minimize the number of Ottoman armies, but to prevent number vandalism by Western sources. Actually, I think you would understand me if you correlate a little bit between the wars. As I said, we can solve this issue by discussing privately, not on Wikipedia. Nabukednezar03 (talk) 21:34, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, please show me academic sources, links, page numbers regarding the army sizes. OrionNimrod (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A 12.század eleji "Keresztény magyarok cselekedetei" kimaradt. Juliánus barát is azt használta a Gesta helyett, mert megbízhatóbb és régebbi volt.--Hefty-priced (talk) 21:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, thanks for the feedback! You can extend if you find more things. OrionNimrod (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you improve that new article? Thank you!--Hefty-priced (talk) 21:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, sorry that is out of my knowledge. OrionNimrod (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for February 11[edit]
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Thank you for your contributions. It seems that you have added Creative Commons licensed text to one or more Wikipedia articles, such as Hungarians. You are welcome to import appropriate Creative Commons licensed content to articles, but in order to meet the Wikipedia guideline on plagiarism, such content must be fully attributed. This requires not only acknowledging the source, but acknowledging that the source is copied. There are several methods to do this described at Wikipedia:Plagiarism#Compatibly licensed sources, including the usage of an attribution template. Please make sure that any Creative Commons content you have already imported is fully attributed. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 23:58, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Diannaa! Thanks for the feedback. I am carefully adapt the copyright contents, rewording myself. But in this case I found an open access genetic study [22] and I added the "free" tag: [23] Do you think it is ok? I see you added this "Creative Commons text attribution notice|cc=by4|from this source=yes" that was the missing data, right? If yes I will add this in the future for the similar sources. OrionNimrod (talk) 14:28, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Bratislava. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Aristeus01 (talk) 14:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
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Hello. I have noticed that you often edit without using an edit summary. Please do your best to always fill in the summary field. This helps your fellow editors use their time more productively, rather than spending it unnecessarily scrutinizing and verifying your work. Even a short summary is better than no summary, and summaries are particularly important for large, complex, or potentially controversial edits. To help yourself remember, you may wish to check the "prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" box in your preferences. Thanks! Avishai11 (talk) 16:15, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
