User talk:North8000

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Talk page header[edit]

New Pages Feed

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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes

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CAT:NN

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Notability https://wiki.alquds.edu/?query=Special:NewPages

Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Practical tips

Remedy for the bot's mistake[edit]

I think bot have again put the deletion template, hope you will solve this problemMajun e Baqi (talk) 15:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think it will all work out...the AFD will be closed as "keep" and then the template removed. North8000 (talk) 19:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Denial of genocide of Serbs in the NDH[edit]

I have made some changes in the article Denial of genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia. Is the page better now? Do all parts now cover the topic directly? Can the Off-topic and Coatrack templates be removed now?--WEBDuB (talk) 16:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think that between your changes and the one off-topic section/paragraph that I removed that the issue that triggered the two current tags has been resolved. I don't know the overall situation well enough to know how objectively-written the article is. My gut feel is that it is objectively written (except for a few poorly worded sentences) because the article is structured as a series of sourced facts/statements. This may be inevitable if there is some type of contest going on at the article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:58, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Draft: Mushir Husain Qidwai[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Draft: Mushir Husain Qidwai. Kindly, have a look so I may publish it to main space Majun e Baqi (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy to. The main question for the existence of the article is wp:notability; everything else is a matter of article development. In the case of this article the likely route to that is wp:GNG which is sourcing based. The article has brief on-line sources and substantial off-line sources. I don't have access to the off line sources. The on-line sources do not constitute wp:GNG type coverage but do indicate prominence of a type to mean that suitable coverage is sources probably exists. And and it probably exists in the referenced off-line sources. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 04:49, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Madni Miyan[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Madni Miyan. I have added sources to an article with sources, kindly have a look for its notability, mentioning I am not the creator of this article, lots of loveMajun e Baqi (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC) Majun e Baqi (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	Thanks for your helps regarding New page Patroler works, you deserve this atleast, lots of love Majun e Baqi (talk) 17:29, 17 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

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Sending me notifications about "pages I started"[edit]

I understand that it is automatically sent to me if I made the redirect, but I believe this is the third or so time I'm asking you to not leave me "Page Curation" notices as none of the times you've left me these have I been the user who created the content on the article. If you find you've sent me one in the future, please remove it after. Can you please remove the Page Curation notice from my talk page that you left there minutes ago, and put it on the talk page of User talk:KpopMonica, who created the content? Also, regarding your comment on the page, Loona does have an article. The user just capitalised their name in the lead. Pings do not work for me as I've turned them off, and I don't see the point in having a conversation about this anyway. I'm just asking yo uto remember this for the future. Thank you. Ss112 01:52, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@MSs12: I deleted that post from your talk page. I looked and in the process you received 3 posts form me; one compliment, and two noting that I passed the article with suggestions. The new page curation volunteer folks have to review approximately 700 articles per day (about 255,000 per year). At my current pace I'll be doing approximately 2,000 articles per year and even that is less than 1% of the total. Which of these sounds more reasonable to you:?

Me try to remember and fulfill special requests from each of those. Such as analyzing each one to find cases where the page creator was not the main creator of the content and the find a way to override the page curation process and send the note (typically a compliment) to who I judge to be the largest content creator instead of the page creator.
You just delete any unwanted posts regarding pages that you created instead of implying that I am remiss because I did not do #1?

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Here's a barnstar![edit]

		The Original Barnstar
		I'm grateful for your review of Ryan-Mark Parsons and your kind feedback too. Makes everything worth the effort. JPA24 (talk) 14:03, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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July[edit]

Please help watch tomorrow's TFA about the beginning of scouting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:16, 31 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks for the post. Will do. North8000 (talk) 19:58, 31 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Species articles[edit]

Hi, I saw your comments at Starzoner's talk page - Good start. We tilt wp:notability a bit for plants/animals, but usually not down to the species level unless well known, but I'm marking it as reviewed. Happy editing. Please be aware that this is not the case. If a species has been formally described, we automatically consider it notable and worthy of a standalone article. The cutoff level is at subspecies - we only do subspecies articles if there is an unusual amount to say about the taxon, so that it cannot be comfortably accommodated in the species article. For a species articles, there have to be special circumstances for it not to be considered notable: nomen dubium (or nomen nudum, if the dice fall that way), synonyms obviously, or absence of either original description or reliable log of same in commonly used databases. Whether the species is well known or not does not figure into it - otherwise we would not have ten thousand bettle stubs :) - The closest to a clear codification of this is WP:SPECIESOUTCOMES, which is yeah, not very impressive. But as a NPP reviewer you have to keep it in mind please. Cheers! --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:10, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @Elmidae: Thanks for the post. I just try to do the job as well as I can. Since the outcomes article is not policy or a guideline, I don't accept its pronouncements, but do accept it as a indicator of common outcomes, which I tend to follow. On the other side of the scale, I've seen the most core people at wp:notability talk say that this is not the case for individual species as there are millions of individual species and that (plus nothing that says otherwise in any policy or guidelines) was the basis for my comment. As I'm sure that you noted, I passed all of your individual species articles. Between the listing at common outcomes, plus seeing that an editor has taken the time to create a real article on an individual species, plus a species articles being on very encyclopedic topics (which I tend to weight), IMO that merits a "Pass" in those cases despite the opposite guidance from core folks at wp:notability talk. Thanks for your post and for creating the articles, and reinforcing that we both think the same regarding the end result which I intend to continue to follow. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 00:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Hmm. Every so often some newbie nominates a valid species for AfD because it is "not notable"; these are always kept, generally speedily. There is really no wiggle room in the current practice, and no expectation that a valid species would not survive AfD. Telling people otherwise is misleading. I do believe you are doing article creators a disservice by suggesting that their species article is borderline notable but you'll let it pass. That's just not the case. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:36, 3 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @Elmidae: Thanks for the post. You've reinforced my thoughts further and I'll just pass those without any such note. Thanks. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 00:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

And thanks in return for your good collegiality! :) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:52, 3 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@North8000:[edit]

Hi North! Thanks for the nice words! One rarely gets anything nice on Wikipedia these days...I even had someone put a page I created on speedy deletion because he or she said it was "promotional" nevermind my almost 20 years writing here about different topics! (that are notable and I enjoy) so your compliment was refreshing!

Once again thanks and God bless you! ~~~~ Antonio el chetos Martin (dime) 12:27, August 4, 2020 (UTC)

@AntonioMartin: Thanks. Yes, too often Wikipedia is a nasty place, by the normal practices of even non-nasty people. I think that putting one's self in the shoes of the other person and letting that be a guide goes a long way. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:14, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Support on a page you reviewed[edit]

Hello North8000. You were so kind to leave feedback after reviewing Ryan-Mark Parsons. As you may know, I'm relatively new to Wikipedia and I'm really not sure how to deal with this new and ongoing problem. A banned user once 'recreated' the page after an IP user blanked and redirected the page. The banned user only reverted vandalism and hasn't made any further edits on the page. A confirmed user redirected the page, but later agreed with restoring the page after I reverted the redirection, as they explained they didn't look at the page's history. I'm now fearing that because this banned user has edited the page ONCE (to just revert IP vandalism), it has cast a horrible shadow over the article and I don't think that's fair. There has been no discussion in the talk page either before removing content. The page is already semi-protected, but if that's increased I won't be able to edit the page that I have created. Any guidance or support would be appreciated. JPA24 (talk) 05:01, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @JPA24:. I hope that I am being of service to you by being direct. First, a quick note on my review. The think we most focus on is compliance with wp:notability. Generally if it meets that wp:notability, then it probably stays and everything else can be fixed later. When I reviewed the article, my impression was that this barely meets wp:notability, but does. Plus it had a "Keep" decision at AFD. Which also means that there is not a lot of in-depth coverage in sources to build an article from. My impression was that someone managed to make a pretty good article despite all of that and thus the compliment. With the core 30 people at new page patrol needing to handle about 700 articles per day, I didn't go much deeper in than that. If there is any "shadow" over the article it's that at first glance at it, and your role in it, and focus of the short wiki-career of JPA24 and a few other signs, it has the appearance of you being overly committed to the person who is the subject of this article, and the ramifications related to that. It is very unlikely that protection of the article would be increased to the point of you not being able to edit it.

The person (Drmies) who has edited and discussed there a bit there is an extremely expert, careful senior editor. With the caveat that most of the people you interact with have not had the time to thoroughly learn you or the article, whatever Drmies says or does would also be a good thing to listen to or learn from.

I'm happy to help people get a start. So the next question is: what would like to do next in Wikipedia or the article? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello North8000. Thank you so much for elaborating on the review you left on the article. I've mentioned this to other users as well, I'm currently learning each day whilst using Wikipedia. My short-term goal for my relatively new Wiki-career is to get a C-Class for an article - this happened to be on the subject of Ryan-Mark Parsons. There was a consensus to 'keep' the article following AfD discussion and as other users pointed out, it meets grounds for notability. Once I feel more confident and achieved this article milestone, I'd like to focus on a new subject (most likely British TV which is my interest). I only do this to pass the time and it has been helpful during lockdown.

Moving forward, if you have any advice on how to improve the quality of the article from Start-Class to C-Class, I'm completely open to feedback and would be very grateful, merely to enhance my own understanding of this platform. JPA24 (talk) 17:48, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Actually, I think that you have done a pretty skillfully written article considering what you have to work with with this topic and the sources. Articles are written from sources, and borderline wp:notability means borderline on in depth coverage by independent sources. If you are able to find any more independent sources with in-depth coverage, and build material from them that would be a good thing. For anyone reviewing the article one thing to understand is that it will be under the magnifying glass as a possibly promotional article. After a medium depth read there were two things that jumped out at me in that area:

"The Before his media career, Parsons was a Brand Ambassador for Gucci within Harrods and Aspinal of London; plus several internships at the Palace of Westminster, Matrix Chambers, 5 King's Bench Walk, AIG and NHS" sounds like some vague promotional material from his self-generated bio which a source might have parroted. Real enclyclopedic coverage would be a dispassionate more detailed coverage of what exactly he did in those roles.
The wording about going to the hospital due to dropping caviar on his foot sounds more like wording from his PR team about a publicity stunt rather than a third party encyclopedic description of what actually happened. I wasn't able to look at the source (it won't display in the US) but either way my comment is about the text in the article.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Forgot to ping @JPA24: North8000 (talk) 11:05, 11 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you North8000. I'm going to work on this feedback and hopefully other editors will notice these points and make improvements too. Thanks again for all of your support. JPA24 (talk) 11:14, 11 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Motion at Amendment request: North8000[edit]

A motion was posted on 21 August regarding the amendment request. It can be viewed at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#North8000 restrictions: Motion. You may have already seen this and apologies for the belated notice on my part. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 12:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Dreamy Jazz: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 13:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment[edit]

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Amendment request: North8000 motion enacted and amendment request archived[edit]

The motion North8000 restrictions: Motion has been enacted and the amendment request has been archived to Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests#Amendment request: North8000. The enacted motion is as follows:

North8000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was restricted by motion in December 2016 (Motion regarding North80000). Recognizing North8000's productive contributions and renewed voluntary commitments, the restrictions are suspended for one year, during which time the restrictions may be re-imposed (individually or entirely) upon request to WP:ARCA if warranted. Any restrictions not reimposed will automatically expire at the end of the one year period.

For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 21:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding North8000

@Dreamy Jazz: Thanks for the heads up! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment[edit]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 15:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

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Done North8000 (talk) 13:07, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment[edit]

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Help with writing an article split[edit]

Hi there, you recently made an edit at the Ely, Minnesota article and I am wondering if you would be interested in helping me out with that page. I have not lived in Minnesota for years but I continue to have a very strong connection to the state. I had worked on the Ely article and added a considerable amount of copy some years ago and recently read a news article that mentioned the current copper-nickle mining controversy that is presently going on in Minnesota. I also do a great deal of editing on the environment, for example I am the leading editor of Environmental policy of the Donald Trump administration (and I also added it to that article), so that sparked my interest. Anyway, after reading the article I thought that I'd just add a few words to update the history section. As I read more and more about the plans to introduce copper-nickle mining I found that the conglomerate that plans to open the Ely mine also have questionable ties to Trump and his presidency. So that added to my interest as well because I have concerns about corporate ownership of our country. I'd like to get more into that aspect but the section I've added is already too long and anything more is out of the question. I would like to split that section off while leaving a substantial but much smaller overview at the article. Also, the split would be very good for both the Trump and the BWCA articles and perhaps several other MN Iron Range articles as well. I've never written an article but I am wondering if you might do that, if you have the interest of course. Hope I am not being too wordy here but this subject is very important to me. Thanks for your time. Gandydancer (talk) 18:42, 4 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @Gandydancer: I love working with folks on articles, and am overall probably the most active editor on "northwoods" articles so the answer is almost certainly "yes". But I don't understand what new article you have in mind. Could you clarify? Thanks.

BTW Patagonia made a cool short film about combined BWCA and the mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR_69AnAg1Y&t=47s

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:19, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Lovely, lovely, lovely film. I am speaking of the new addition I made to the Ely article which discusses the proposed copper mine which is only a few miles from Ely and just adjacent to the BWCA. Gandydancer (talk) 19:46, 4 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

So you mean an article on the proposed mine (and the related processes, actions and controversy)? Sounds like an article that should exist if it doesn't already. Fist step would be to find a couple of sources/articles that cover it in depth. This will confirm wp:notability and also provide a sources for some material to start with. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:59, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

The NYT has this: [1] The Mpls Star Trib has this (an editorial but it is the Trib's position): [2] There may be more that I have already used in the article--I will check. Gandydancer (talk) 20:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OK, just clarifying, you are thinking about doing it on the Twin Metals mine specifically? FYI, for editors who are newer at it, the safest route is to get the article somewhat fully built as a draft somewhere, then submit it at wp:AFC and get it blessed and them move it into article space. Being more experienced and less patient, I'm thinking that we'll work on it briefly in a draft space to the point of deciding on a title and having enough sourcing in there to confirm wp:notability and then move it into article space to build it there. I'll start a draft space (including a talk page) right away so that, after it's moved our discussions will be with the article history rather than in my talk page history. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:35, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

OK,

Here's the draft space for the article: User:North8000/TwinMetalsDraft
Here's the talk page for it, let's move our conversation over there User_talk:North8000/TwinMetalsDraft

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:43, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I believe that it would be best to just stick with the Ely mine rather than to include the Iron Range proposals. I would appreciate as much help as possible as my health has been very poor, plus I have a new computer that is almost driving me crazy. I'm surprised that I was able to do as much as I did at the Ely article. Here is one more site from PBS: [3] I'll move over to the new site now. Gandydancer (talk) 21:03, 4 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Uh oh, maybe[edit]

I think I may have edit conflicted with you at WP:RSN = HuffPo...will you take a look? If I did, my sincerest apologies. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 17:49, 8 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks @Atsme:That was weird....it took my edit and it's in the edit history but it disappeared. I reentered. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:05, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The new edit conflict fixer-upper usually keeps both edits and gives you the option of putting one before the other, or vice versa. I thought I was adding mine after yours but instead, it deleted yours.

Thank you for the fix. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 18:07, 8 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

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done North8000 (talk) 12:46, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

ONUS[edit]

Hello, thank you for your comments at the RfC proposal section at (however we abbreviate the talk page for WP:V). I don't want to talk to everyone simultaneously or dominate the discussion more, so maybe I could hear your thoughts here before distilling some comments onto the page? I have a lot of questions to work out but I'm not sure how much you want to get into this. Thanks in advance for whatever you'd like to discuss. (I should note that I'm not sure if I understand the middle part of your comment.)

By your interpretation of ONUS, "", does that simply mean that an editor must provide a reason other than V to include challenged text, just as an editor must provide a reason other than "I don't like it" to remove the text? I think that does make sense as the original intention of the policy, especially if the first sentence of the policy is meant to be the defining text. (I just found this essay which speaks to part of the ONUS discussion: Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus".) I'm under the impression that the onus policy has been used in a way that is also related to WP:CONSENSUS, which makes sense to me because of the last two sentences. Maybe the policy should be split between WP:V and WP:CONSENSUS?

The second two sentences are where the confusion seems to lie. It sounds like the two sentences are in reverse order, if it's meant to say that if the editor who wishes to add text fails to achieve consensus then the consensus is to omit the text. Then we get into the question of ONUS and removal....and what the CONSENSUS piece of ONUS actually looks like in practice.

So, another question is, regardless of how ONUS is interpreted, what policy do we want? Do we want to say that once a change to consensus is clearly contentious the status quo ante version should be in place pending discussion, which would function as a sort of a trigger for WP:Consensus Required? Although based on the discussion at Talk WP:V I would expect that proposal to be strongly opposed, and it may not be possible to answer these questions without also addressing their concerns by determining whether a status quo version without clear consensus should remain in place pending discussion over contentious changes. Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:43, 22 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the post. BTW I'll be off the grid Sept 26th - Oct 4th. My post was somewhat abstract and wandering and so I think easily misread. For me your post covers a lot of big topics.....I'll just says some things and see where we go from there. Long story short, on the immediate question at hand my opinion is to leave it as is. If I could mess with the big picture it would be:

Add to wp:ver: "Meeting wp:verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion". This is actually a summary of what wp:does and doesn't say, but too many people think the opposite. One thing that this would say would be that one could not used that the material is sourced as an argument for inclusion.
Create a new guideline or widely quoted essay that describes how inclusion / exclusion decision are made. Where policy does not clearly dictate the anser, it's based on a decision which is based on many factors combined.
Add somewhere: "when making inclusion/exclusion decisions, give the status quo a little extra sway, and when doing so, also consider strength or weakness of it's position as the status quo"

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 10:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

So we're discussing what WP:ONUS means, but what does WP:CONSENSUS mean? I think using the words status quo is confusing here because QUO is a separate concept, so I'll say "previous consensus". The previous consensus only gets more sway in my opinion because presumably the editors who wrote the consensus text or who read the text and agreed with it, are not participating in the local discussion over changing the text. That's why CONSENSUS states that when there is no consensus for a change the previous consensus will remain. The "sway" is already written into policy.

Does it also seem to you that the last two sentences of ONUS have been often interpreted by editors as an extension of CONSENSUS? [[User:|Kolya Butternut]] (talk) 14:41, 23 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kolya Butternut: In my view this touches on lot of different fundamental areas which would take a book length post to answer :-) and where I've already given my 30,000' view. But briefly, wp:consensus is the closest thing to a real roadmap for discussions. Even it does not talk about giving the status quo a tiny bit of weight in discussions, but one level up it does so in the roadmap for when consensus is or isn't reached and the "presumed consensus" concept. In my view wp:onus should be deleted. It's only there as a band-aid because we've failed to put the badly-needed sentence "WP:verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion" into wp:ver. The topic doesn't belong in wp:ver and what is there doesn't cover the topic. IMO the only reason wp:onus it is heavily used instead of wp:consensus which covers it better is because it's in a more prominent policy, and because it is short and because it has a convenient handle "Onus" unofficially attached. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 10:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, just remove the "WP:ONUS" shortcut, leave "WP:VNOTSUFF", perhaps add "WP:VNOTGUARANTEE" or "WP:VNOTENOUGH". The concept of ONUS seems to be essential, so I think we should move the handle "WP:ONUS" to WP:CONSENSUS. Kolya Butternut (talk) 11:36, 24 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just wanted to make sure you saw my last comment at WT:V. The page is getting confusing. Kolya Butternut (talk) 03:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @Kolya Butternut: I'm assuming that you meant the Oct 25th post. I did read it twice, but that's as far as I got. To really understand it would need a lot of reading/analysis at the referenced policies/guidelines which I frankly didn't do. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm confused; I thought you felt my proposal was a baby-step you agreed with? Kolya Butternut (talk) 13:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kolya Butternut:Yes I would have supported that. But your proposal included a huge second proposal: "new section at WP:CONSENSUS § Achieving consensus#Onus to clearly define Onus as applying to new additions, removals, and modifications?" Which makes it mal-formed (two proposals in one). Also the second proposal is a huge and vaguely defined one.North8000 (talk) 13:57, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I felt that it belonged under the Achieving consensus section rather than just adding the wikilink to No consensus, if that's what you agreed to as the baby step. I also guess I missed that we didn't agree that there was a lack of clarity about the onus policy. You mentioned that you felt it would take several steps to create a new section under Consensus, what sorts of steps would those be? Kolya Butternut (talk) 14:08, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kolya Butternut: We agree there was a lack of clarity about the onus policy, although (as a sidebar) not that it is significant problem. That does not translate into your particular approach of your RFC. Regarding the several steps, they would be:

Replace the current wp:onus at wp:ver with "verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion." Move the rest of that section to wp:consensus. Change the target of wp:onus to that moved text
That move will make the conflict/ ambiguity more obvious. Resolve that by modifying wp:consensus per the result of a discussion there.

The above steps could be combined or further subdivided. I respect and thank you for your efforts. Respectfully, I don't think that your current approach (which is the standard Wikipedia one, so this is not a critique) is going to get you anywhere (which is also standard for Wikipedia) and is just wearing people out. My suggestion is to develop a specific idea which 2-3 people will get behind as proponents and then float and support that idea. North8000 (talk) 20:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, ideally a few people could come up with a specific proposal, but I didn't see that happening. The RfC is ironic -- on the one hand people are saying there's no problem so there's no need for a change, and yet there's clearly a disagreement about the interpretation of the policy which suggests that there is a need for a change. Kolya Butternut (talk) 21:04, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kolya Butternut: I think that the "no problem" people are essentially saying that the fuzzy Wikipedia system mostly makes it work. BTW my idea was a suggestion for you if you chose to pursue this further. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 23:27, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Your advice on an AfC submission[edit]

Hi. Please take a look at Draft:Terje G. Simonsen. It is a properly stated WP:COI contribution about a Norwegian non-fiction author. The article is a translation of a Norwegian Wikipedia article with a bit more sources. The author is a historian and writes about the history of paranormal. Considering your great experience of editing Wikipedia and also the fact that you contributed to Jeffrey Mishlove, I guess that you have a balanced view on the subject and can give me a good and professional advice. Please tell how this article could/should be edited or changed in order to improve the chances of passing an AfC review. Thanks! Peter. --Bbarmadillo (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Bbarmadillo: Happy to. It looks like it was already accepted both for afc and npp. It looks like an excellent job on the article based on the available sources. If you wanted to take it to the "next level" regarding article quality and being doublysafe on wp:notability I search for 1-2 more sources that wrote about him and incorporate that material into the article. Nice work! North8000 (talk) 02:19, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! --Bbarmadillo (talk) 06:59, 25 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 04:54, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas[edit]

File:Christmas tree in field.jpg	Merry Christmas North8000
	Hi North8000, I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a very happy and prosperous New Year, Thanks for all your contributions to Wikipedia this past year, like this tree, you are a light shining in the darkness. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:07, 22 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Onel5969: Thanks for the Christmas wishes, I wish you a great 2021! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Closing edit requests[edit]

Please be sure to close edit requests that you grant. Gentle reminder to use the |answered=yes parameter in the request template. That removes the request from the Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests category. Thank you very much for your help with edit requests! P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 20:11, 28 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Paine Ellsworth: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 20:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:14, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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done. North8000 (talk) 14:31, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:39, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Happy Valentines! Some sweet strawberries for you![edit]

You get the Dependability Award! Thank you for being the kind of editor that other editors like me have come to rely on, knowing they can depend on you for help and guidance! Huggums537 (talk) 22:50, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Huggums537: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 02:12, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

notability guideline issue about Sadat Hossain Article[edit]

I wrote a article named Sadat Hossain. Then there is two discussion (1st Discussion and 2nd Discussion).The result of both discussion is keep. But for the 3rd time it is flagged as not notable. But as per WP:CREATIVE and WP:AUTHOR rules it meets the criteria. The references are from prominent Bangladeshi & Indian bengali and english newspapers. I want to permanently dissolve this issue. Jubair Sayeed Linas (talk) 20:25, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jubair Sayeed Linas: Happy to take a peek. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:10, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jubair Sayeed Linas: Long story short, you have a pretty strong case for this article, doubly so from a person who took it to AFD before. But before I try to help I'd like to know whether it is a strong vs. doubly strong case. If it has like 2 GNG-suitable sources it would be doubly strong. I think that it would take me hours (which I frankly don't have) to read and understand the sources. I took a look and immediately ran into things that I would need to figure out such as sources centric on names other than Sadat Hossain. Could you help out by picking and pointing out to me the top 2 or three sources regarding GNG. So that would be published sources that cover him in depth. Sincerely,, North8000 (talk) 22:51, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

@North8000: As you can see the reference link leading and prominent english newspaper like The Daily Star (Bangladesh), The Daily Observer (Bangladesh), Dhaka Tribune and bengali newspaper Prothom Alo, Bangladesh Pratidin, Manab Zamin, online portal Banglanews24.com, Bangla Tribune, NTV (Bangladeshi TV channel) and Indian Ei Samay Sangbadpatra, Kolkata TV has stories about him. You can search through the bengali by সাদাত হোসাইন which is the bengali form of Sadat Hossain. I recommend you to look up ref 1, ref 2, ref 3, ref 4 ref 5 You can also find him on [Worldcat]. Jubair Sayeed Linas (talk) 23:38, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @Jubair Sayeed Linas:. That's about 2 hours of work and would need to wait until I have that much time to spare. My previous request which was: "Could you help out by picking and pointing out to me the top 2 or three sources regarding GNG. So that would be published sources that cover him in depth." was to reduce the amount of time required and I'd work on the situation right away. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

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February 2020[edit]

Hello, I'm Dlthewave. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, PragerU, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. (Regarding this edit, which restored the unsourced text "historical narrative.) –dlthewave ☎ 22:32, 26 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

dlthewave, why would you post something like that? It's a very condescending thing to say to an editor who has been around Wikipedia for almost a decade more than you have and who restoring the status quo text given we are at a noconsensus state in the talk page discussion. Springee (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Dlthewave: You have it backwards. I removed unsourced new material. Your post here even mis-represents the reason given for the reversion of my revert, they asserted that it was because there was no consensus to remove the unsourced un-consensused new material! North8000 (talk) 23:19, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I understand that you believe the new material to be unsourced and lacking consensus. I explained why I disagree with that on the talk page. However, you are responsible for your own edit which added the words "historical narrative". Where is the source that supports that? WP:ONUS is on editors who add or restore unsourced content. –dlthewave ☎ 23:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Narrative" merely means that such a statement or assertion by somebody exists, which it clearly does, and such is already sourced. and that is the stable version. You are defending the substitution of a much farther reaching version of that statement which was inserted on February 26th. And there is no "I believe" regarding no consensus, such obviously did not occur. If you still wish to persist with the "I believe" insinuation, please point to where that consensus occurred. North8000 (talk) 01:40, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

@Dlthewave: I took issue in several ways with the approach that you you took above and responded accordingly. That said, I'm ready to just move on and wish you the best and thank you for your Wikipedia work. At the article my desire is to try to be helpful and then not worry about what the final result is. Combine that with I think progress being made there and I'm not overly concerned about what happens next.North8000 (talk) 04:59, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

McKinsey & Company[edit]

Hi @North8000: those entries are entirely unsuitable for the lede. They are completely WP:NPOV. I had a chat with the editor on it already. scope_creep^Talk 15:57, 5 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @North8000: You could perhaps do with getting this stuff archived. It is quite hard to write this entry. scope_creep^Talk 15:59, 5 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @Scope creep: My edit summary pretty much gave my take on it....the one revert deleted about 20 edits which looks like they contained some good info and sourcing and I felt the 20 edits should get a closer look rather than mass reverted. Maybe add to that some concern that concern about possible coi might have made folks go a bit overboard there. (yes, concern about concern :-)) That closer/ targeted look is still my recommendation but I just wanted to try to help a bit and beyond that am not really concerned about the outcome. Thanks for your efforts and work. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service[edit]

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done North8000 (talk) 11:59, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Help w Soles4Souls page[edit]

Hi North8000. I wanted to see if you had a minute to look at Talk:Soles4Souls under “Requested changes“ or, if not, if you knew of any editors interested in pages about non-profits I could reach out to. Jamiemellis (talk) 16:01, 26 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sure, I'd be happy to.North8000 (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 13:58, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:30, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

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done. North8000 (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment[edit]

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Done North8000 (talk) 18:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Scouting WikiProject[edit]

		Merit Badge Sash Award
		Thank you for your dedication to Scouting! --evrik ^(talk) 20:24, 26 April 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks! North8000 (talk) 20:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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done North8000 (talk) 17:20, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Greetings![edit]

Please share your views on Talk:Elizabeth II#Head of the Commonwealth, as you did at the talk page of George VI. Thank you! Peter Ormond (talk) 00:09, 15 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Peter Ormond:Thanks for the invite. Done. North8000 (talk) 17:25, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment[edit]

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Done North8000 (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Request for peer review help[edit]

Hi North8000. I hope you are doing well and staying safe during these times! Apologize to bother and posting a random request. I have just started to work on a stub (Fontainea Venosa)and had added some sections. Knowing your expertise, I would love if you can help me to review and left a comment on what I can do to improve my edits. I hope that this is okay, but no pressure if you are busy. That is completely fine and understandable :) Hope to hear from you soon. The article is Fontainea Venosa

Thank you so much :) Sparklingkull (talk) 09:37, 17 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sparklingkull: Sure, I'd be happy to. North8000 (talk) 12:17, 17 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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done North8000 (talk) 14:26, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 23:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 15:32, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 15:31, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:37, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 11:23, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment[edit]

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done North8000 (talk) 12:02, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

From Gerda Arendt[edit]

... for what you said on User talk:SlimVirgin - missing pictured on my talk, with music full of hope and reformation --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:23, 29 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 21:23, 29 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

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GAN Backlog Drive - July 2021[edit]

Good article nominations \| July 2021 Backlog Drive
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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment[edit]

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

St. Joseph's Indian School[edit]

I tried to edit this article to establish a factual version and timeline cited and based on sources, and to clean up the sources, because sometimes the same article was referred to 3 times as if different ones. Yes, I should have asked permission first but got started early this morning. Elizium said I used incorrect formatting, and reverted edits where I had added Fr. to Hogebach. (I thought that and Rev. were pretty common for Catholic and Protestant clergy, respectively.) Some factual material wasn't included at all, such as the name of the college at Chamberlain or the number of students when St. Joseph's school started. If we could have a version that is more factual and cleaned up, it might make the Talk page more productive.Parkwells (talk) 16:46, 13 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Parkwells: Sorry I didn't see this sooner because you put it my user page instead of my talk page. I've subsequently said there that you are a rock-star neutral expert editor and thanked you for your work there.North8000 (talk) 17:06, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, North8000 - must have been too annoyed at the time, so have moved it to its correct place. Thanks for all your work on the article, too.Parkwells (talk) 17:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@North8000 and Parkwells:, I think you both have done good things with the article. It continues to be expanded with relevant material. I honestly appreciate you both. --ARose Wolf 19:13, 1 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks!North8000 (talk) 20:34, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment[edit]

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WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: July 2021[edit]

WikiProject Scouting | July 2021

Things to watch for:

New: Newest articles
Alert: Article alerts
Continuing: To do

Other ways to participate:

--evrik ^(talk) 17:32, 2 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Page move without adequate notice for discussion[edit]

See my ping at Talk:History of American Indian schools#Scope of this article and potential American Indian school articles, where I have strongly suggested that you self-revert and apply the discussion template for suggested page moves. A note on talk, with a header that does not mention a potential page move, and then moving it yourself when no one has responded to you after four days (two of them over a weekend) is not appropriate. Follow Wikipedia policy for page moves. I have linked the policy and template at talk. Don't make others have to clean this up. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 21:23, 4 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You are implying policies that don't exist. What you linked is instructions for people who want to have somebody move pages for them, and not only that even that is in the multiple page moves section.Finally, even if it WAS applicable, it describes what I already did. As I said there, lets let editors weigh in and go with whatever is decided. North8000 (talk) 00:09, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Others have concurred that it was entirely proper. But again, let's just decide how it should end up and do that. North8000 (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done.North8000 (talk) 02:42, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:33, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:42, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:56, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thanks for helping with the RFC I did try to clarify it more.Thelostone41 (talk) 13:34, 24 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Thelostone41: My pleasure. North8000 (talk) 17:19, 24 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

mail from SB[edit]

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Done North8000 (talk) 13:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:36, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:45, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:54, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 15:12, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

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File source problem with File:Justine Kerfoot 1940.jpg[edit]

Thank you for uploading File:Justine Kerfoot 1940.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the image description page.

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The source of the image is the current owner, Bruce Kerfoot who has granted the required license. He obtained ownership by inheriting it from the original owner, his mother, Justine Kerfoot.North8000 (talk) 12:25, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:ROPE[edit]

I have drafted an alternative version of this essay at User:Cullen328/sandbox/One last chance and invite your input. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:01, 28 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cool. Thanks for the invitation. North8000 (talk) 23:46, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 19:33, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 11:53, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk)

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addition of a neuromorphic computing section to the article Artificial intelligence[edit]

@North8000

about the article Artificial intelligence :

I'd like to ask for consensus to add a section on specialized AI hardware.

the rationale for this is that talking about a type of software without the corresponding hardware makes the subject incomplete.

there are already Wikipedia articles on this subject which I will list below.

Neuromorphic engineering

Event camera

JAIC

Physical neural network

Memristor RJJ4y7 (talk) 14:23, 11 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@RJJ4y7: Thanks for the heads up. I've been gone but will be happy to go to discuss at the article page. North8000 (talk) 11:46, 13 October

2021 (UTC)

already started a section RJJ4y7 (talk) 15:19, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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You have been nominated[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at meta:Movement Charter/Affiliates by Region/North America. You have been nominated by User:RightCowLeftCoast, with meta:San Diego Wikimedians User Group, to be a region selector for North America (Canada, and the United States) for the Movement Charter selector committee. If you accept your nomination, please indicate it on the page. If you do not accept your nomination, please remove yourself from the list of potential selectors. Thanks in advance for your time regarding this nomination, and thanks for everything you have done so far on a Wikimedia project. RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 22:20, 12 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@RightCowLeftCoast: Thanks for the nomination. I don't fully understand this yet (including how to properly accept) but am happy to make my best effort.North8000 (talk) 11:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

@North8000: Thanks for accepting the nomination. Within the next day the Wikimedia Foundation affiliates in Canada, and the United States, will vote on those nominees who have accepted their nominations or who self nominated. The majority vote getter will then be selected as the North American Region selector on the affiliates selection committee, who will then decide among themselves who shall be the Wikimedia Foundation affiliates Drafting Committee members.--RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 15:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@North8000: Thanks for volunteering your time! Here's a bit more context on the task you were nominated for -- this is a specific task to happen over the next 2 weeks to work with the other selectors who are chosen by the other regions of the world (as described here: meta:Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_Process#Selection_process to choose the 6-13 candidates you think are the best for the role of drafting the meta:Movement Charter. Here's the list of candidates you would choose from -- there are 70 and they are international, from all parts of the movement, so it will be a fair bit of review; here's some of the matrices developed so far. Each region gets to nominate a selector, so this is North America's process. The process of selecting candidates needs to wrap up by the beginning of November (the posted date is October 24 with announcement to happen by Oct 31), to coincide with the community vote on the candidates that will also be happening. So the task will be: read through the 70 candidates, and work with your 8 counterparts to decide who you think should take on the drafting/editing/conceptualization process that will result in the movement charter draft. This is complicated, let me know if you have questions! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 17:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It would be good to learn your views, North8000. Can't tell if you've been following the Movement Charter discussion. For logistical reasons I have to vote soon at least tentatively. I will try to tune in to tonight's North America meeting and hear the discussion. -- econterms (talk) 19:33, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just a quick note that the affiliates have voted in another candidate but thanks again for being willing to volunteer! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 15:33, 14 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Folk Music[edit]

Hello there, and thanks for the thanks (what a pun.) Anyways, since you are the main editor of the page as far as I can see, I listed a concern on the talk page. Would you be willing to comment, since nobody else is active? Cheers,-- • Apollo468• 22:47, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cool. Happy to comment. North8000 (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment[edit]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:09, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:29, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Help with Oaktree Capital Management[edit]

Hello North8000. I posted an edit request at Talk:Oaktree Capital Management a few days ago, and was rejected without discussion. Of course I am slightly biased due to a COI, but there appears to have been some oversight and I'd love to get a second opinion. A quick look at the other editor's contributions makes it clear that I will likely need a mediator, and you seem to be someone who may be willing to help. If you have a moment to check it out, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! LeiaVOaktree (talk) 19:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@LeiaVOaktree:Happy to take a look. North8000 (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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done North8000 (talk) 12:53, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:32, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk)

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done North8000 (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:42, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:40, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:46, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment[edit]

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done North8000 (talk) 14:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment[edit]

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Happy belated Thanksgiving![edit]

	Happy belated Thanksgiving!
	Better late than never... Happy holidays! Huggums537 (talk) 09:36, 26 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Huggums537: Thanks! Have a great holidays! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment[edit]

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WP:RSP[edit]

You seem to be a bit confused about reliable sources, since you described content supported by The New York Times and The Washington Post as "fake news". I would suggest looking over WP:RSP to gain a better understanding of how these sources are treated on Wikipedia, since this might differ from your personal beliefs about them. –dlthewave ☎ 21:49, 27 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Dlthewave: What a complete insulting mis-statement or misunderstanding of what I said. If it's just latter and , please let me know and I'll be happy to discuss. North8000 (talk) 22:33, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

My apologies for any offense or misunderstanding. What exactly did you mean by "giving legs to fake news that 'assault weapon' is some specific type of weapon"? I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that we shouldn't use the term/concept in a way that reliable sources do. I'd really like to understand where you're coming from so that we can try to reach consensus. –dlthewave ☎ 23:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There are also RS's which quote originators which said that the term is invented to confuse (with military firearms) for political purposes, not to identify any type of firearm. My main goal is to avoid promulgating something that is objectively a falsehood, including statements that implicitly (falsely) state that it has a consistent meaning as a type of firearm. There are ways to increase coverage of the debates in this general area without propagating terminology falsehoods. They are vulnerable to attack by wikilawyering and so it would take a true joint effort by all concerned. In vague shorthand, it would be something like "persons and organizations are opposed to xxxxxxxxx style firearms (e.g. an AR-15) being available to the general public for the following reasons: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and use the term "assault weapons" to refer to those types of firearms.North8000 (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining. Could you point me to one of the sources that quotes the originators? I'd love to learn. –dlthewave ☎ 23:58, 27 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here's some (quoted) content:

Sugarmann, who happens to be a native of Newtown, argued that the American public's inability to differentiate between automatic and semiautomatic weapons made it easier to get anti-gun legislation passed.

"The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons," Sugarmann wrote.

Gun rights advocates agree that the term "assault weapons" has furthered the idea that semiautomatic weapons are the same as fully automatic assault rifles, which they contend are much more dangerous.

The gun rights lobby also argues that 1) the word "assault" connotes offense and illegality, while the vast majority of such guns are used in a lawful manner and for defense and 2) so-called assault weapons differ from other guns solely because of cosmetic changes like a pistol grip or a threaded barrel for a silencer -- not in the way they actually fire bullets."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/01/17/is-it-fair-to-call-them-assault-weapons/

North8000 (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposed new draft for the Jon Baker page[edit]

About 2 months ago I