User talk:Mujinga

It's a Mystery

Hope all is well. Been a while since we chatted, so I shall make up for it. I decided for Black History Month/Folklore editathon to write Cameron. Partially because also she links to Morris and Bean. It's a tough one. She wrote an autobiography and never mentioned her birth surname or her mother's name. Can you imagine? But...I also ran across a reference that I have no idea what is. Maybe it's a film, which I am guessing from the threads above? I ran it's name through the British Newspaper Archive (thank you WP Library for adding that), and newspapers.com, but I find nada. Any idea if it was a program that ran on television and/or how one could access it? I also have the issue that her obit doesn't mention her death date. I found it on ancestry.com, but it seems weird that in 2020 no obit ran. Possibly because her legal name and the name everyone knew her by were different? Any possibility you can find one? She died 15 March 2020. No worries if you have no clue, or don't have time. SusunW (talk) 21:17, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I'm already back. Maybe the TV thing is this, but it says it ran in 1986 and the national archive link says 1983. But then this says she was featured on This Is Your Life (British TV series) in 1983, so maybe it was that? However, even if they aren't the same, the This is Your Life thingy is critical. The clipping says they brought over her mom. Surely they wouldn't have introduced her mom on the show without saying her name? So...how do I find that? SusunW (talk) 21:45, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi SusunW, nice to get a message from you! As usual you have both found an amazing woman and uncovered an interesting research wormhole. So you are saying she doesn't mention her mum's name in her autobiography!? How odd. I'm probably following some of the same paths, but bear with me...

• Mother's name - hmm don't find it online. Strange also that Keep the Faith is the only obit online.
• This is Your Life (there's a small mention of her at www.bigredbook.info/a_charitable_life.html, edit- bigredbook appears to be blacklisted so I'll paste it here just sok you can check it for research purposes) is definitely separate to the national archive program, since the former is made by ITV (TV network) and the latter by the government. It might be the thing in the link you found, hard to say. Maybe chat to or email the national archives to see if they can provide a bit more info? Good luck with it, the article seems to be coming along nicely overall :) Funny to see Gresham Road and Canterbury Crescent mentioned again! Mujinga (talk) 08:28, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I know, weird right? I must find that video. Not only was her mom on it, the red book link says "she was greeted via a live link by her son - a musician with the pop group, Hot Chocolate". From my searches, that is Chris, but he isn't even listed in our article on the band? SusunW (talk) 13:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I sent an e-mail to the dude who has the big red book cite. Asked him if he can provide a link or just tell me who her mom was. As for chatting with the National Archive, that's a racket. I backed into every link on that thread. No reference to the producer. In the chat I asked who produced it and the response was you can request a copy of the full record for £8.40 per page or hire an independent researcher. I said seriously? You are an archive and I am not asking for a transcript, just a complete citation showing the producer. Response, we have too many records to properly cite each one. o.0 You can't make this stuff up. SusunW (talk) 15:45, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Golly SusunW I would have hoped for a less robotic response from the National Archives! Oh well - not sure what else to suggest. As for finding the video, that might be hard since it's just everyday TV from some time ago. On Hot Chocolate, perhaps he was a session musician? I am enjoying the bizarre links you are finding, it's all connected! Btw I actually just published Villa Road, which I took photos of the same day as Gresham Road - it was a different scene in the same time, more oxbridge white marxists than black community activists, but there must have been connections, not least because of Olive Morris and there were apparently british black panthers living there too... Mujinga (talk) 17:18, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Hmm there's 'Gloria Cameron - Intro Sequence to COI Documentary "A Woman's Place" 1984' on https://vimeo.com/135938804 Mujinga (talk) 17:20, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh wow! Thank you! Apparently Chris wrote, sang, and played keyboards for Hot Chocolate from 1982 to 1985 before becoming a producer for George Michael. I added a "former members" name to the article on the group. And yes, context is everything for women's bios. They link together in really weird ways. Reading about the whole trial now in her book. Figure I need context before I can even begin to look for secondary sources. SusunW (talk) 17:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Good ninja edit but i enjoyed sand as well! Your research has inspired me to devote some time to the lattice of names of mediaeval noblewomen, which always gets complicated Mujinga (talk) 18:29, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

LOL. Good luck with her. I hope your research journey is easier than this one. ;) I am hopeful that continued digging will peel the onion that is Cameron's life. SusunW (talk) 18:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

SusunW "Lettice (or Letitia) Cary (c. 1612–1647), née Morison (or Moryson) and later Viscountess Falkland"  Done Mujinga (talk) 16:05, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

So I finished her version of the trial, but here's the next weird thing, I find nothing, nada, zip, zilch about it in any British or Jamaican papers, google scholar, or books. Not even in the Black Cultural Archives. (I even tried switching google to google.co.uk). It is as if after receiving all those accolades through 1987, after the trial happened until she published her book, there was nothing. I can't publish the article with only her side and I wonder if part of the problem is that her legal name was different? But, that said, the press would've called her Gloria, even if (especially if?) it was negative press, so I am baffled on where to look now. SusunW (talk) 17:17, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

SusunW hmm yeah maybe she was using another name, but it's weird you haven't found it yet .. I also do think it's odd that she had by all accounts a notable life, appeared on This is your life etc etc and then only had an obituary in one place!? I tried to find online archives for The Voice (British newspaper) but didn't get anywhere. Obviously there's systematic bias going on because of her race and gender, but it does seem unusual that everything dries up in more recent times. I can only wish you luck in your endeavours! As a last thought, perhaps asking for help over at WIR might throw up some more leads? Mujinga (talk) 21:32, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

I know her legal name was Florence Tina Cameron, but I don't find anything under that. I couldn't even find her MBE except in Jamaican papers. The obit called her Florence Gloria. I'm gonna try one other editor and then I'll throw it to WiR. If I could even figure out the name of the case, that might help, but I don't know how British proceedings are typically titled and every search I can think of comes up nil. I do appreciate you and your help. SusunW (talk) 22:12, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

SusunW unless the legal case set a precedent (unlikely) it'll be hard to find. If it did, it will be on https://www.bailii.org/. My knowledge here is shaky, I think cases would usually be "Last name v Last name" so "Cameron v somebody", unless it's an action by the state on her behalf (I don't even know what the case was here), then it would be "R v somebody", R being Regina as in Queen. On the MBE that is weird, since I couldn't find it either. Were you using the Gazette? I couldn't find anything for 1980 under Florence or Cameron here or here, maybe it's one year over. In any case, well done Barbara Cameron on her recent MBE though. Mujinga (talk) 09:54, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I think it was an action by the Lambeth Council against her, but maybe it was the council against her volunteer organization. Therein lies the issue. I don't even know how to begin to search for it. She was covered a lot until she wasn't. Her organizations were not usually called by name in any press and there was no coverage that I could find in The Times, The Guardian, etc. The Evening Standard was the only major paper that ever mentioned her in the UK. Thank goodness for The Gleaner, which covers Jamaica and the Caribbean – it a real boon to have access to it (thank you WP library). And yes, I tried the official Gazette and found absolutely nothing. But there's photos of her receiving the MBE and numerous articles noted it, so I know she got it. I've asked Lajmmoore, UK Wikimedian of the year, and a researcher with access to networks that might be helpful. We'll see what happens. (The article on Barbara Cameron and coverage on Gloria Cameron shows exactly the opposite of what that camp on here that maintains an MBE isn't a big deal. For England possibly not, but it still means a lot in those places that were colonized and rarely, if ever, recognized.) SusunW (talk) 14:00, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Tah-dah! I searched "Southwark Crown Court," "Valerie Pearlman" 1 February-28 February 1989. Had to weed through a lot, but found what I need![1], [2] ... and they did list her as Florence. SusunW (talk) 17:52, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Aha SusunW great sleuthing that draft is really coming along! Also good job on Theodora Kroeber, I saw it on the mainpage the other day :) Mujinga (talk) 11:35, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. The Kroeber article was a fun collaboration with Vanamonde. He did the parts I struggle with and I did the parts he struggles with, so it was a lovely joint effort. SusunW (talk) 13:37, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

A hello goat, from the west.

Hi Mujinga, I thought I would give you this goat. He's called Jeff. Jeff the goat. It's for help on the Kathe Voelkner article. Excellent work.

scope_creepTalk 12:24, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Scope creep: haha excellent - I only got as far as Alice Treff. Nice one yourself for starting an article on such an interesting woman :) Mujinga (talk) 17:07, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red March 2023

Women in Red Mar 2023, Vol 9, Iss 3, Nos 251, 252, 258, 259, 260, 261 Online events: New: Geofocus Mediterranean | Art + Activism | Alphabet run Q & R Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman | Folklore See also: #Visible Wiki Women Wikimedia challenge to add more images of women to Commons Tip of the month: Mobile phone readers may only see the article "lead" – take some time to make it shine! Include something to keep people reading. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

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Accents in sorting

Hi there, Mujinga, and thanks for taking an interest in Åse Frøyshov. I realize you are a highly experienced editor but perhaps you don't have much experience with Scandinavian articles. Unless there have been recent changes in ordering, when using Defaultsort it is usual to replace accented letters by the basic English alphabet equivalent, especially when the accented letter is at the beginning of one of the names of a person. This is because English speakers usually expect names to be listed according to the English alphabet rather than under Unicode. Please excuse me for replacing your edit. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 10:52, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Ipigott thanks for doing that, adding the Å got caught up in the edit I wanted to make which was sorting out the double DEFAULTSORT confusion. Keep those articles about Scandinavian women coming! Mujinga (talk) 11:06, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Shooting of Stephen Waldorf

Hi Mujinga, hope all is well with you. As you've commented on a few FACs on my police shooting articles, I thought you might be interested in this one. I've put it up for peer review here in the hope of getting a few people to read it through and spot any issues before I take it to FAC. If you have time to read it and offer any thoughts, I'd be keen to hear them. No pressure if you're busy or not interested, though. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:07, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I'll be along at some point this week, cheers! Mujinga (talk) 13:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done Mujinga (talk) 11:02, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red April 2023

Women in Red Apr 2023, Vol 9, Iss 4, Nos 251, 252, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266 Online events: New: Gender studies | Health | Dance | Alphabet run S & T | Books by women Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman | See also: Women in Red is supporting Every Book Its Reader through our Books by women event. Tip of the month: When writing about a book, check WP:NBOOK for notability, then see MOS:NOVEL, WP:NONFICTION or WP:POETRYSTANDARDS for guidance. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

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First contact

hi bro — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELI TOX BRO WILLIAM (talk • contribs) 11:23, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

hello! Mujinga (talk) 13:07, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red May 2023

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GA

Thanks. Also how does it work for others who significantly contributed? I think B also did a lot of work on the article to improve the quality and I think they should get credit too, but I don't know the rules. CT55555(talk) 17:40, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Nice one! It's hard for them to get "official" credit I think. You could cutnpaste the message the bot left on your talkpage and put it on B's? I think that's a nice way of appreciating their work. Mujinga (talk) 17:50, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi, as I explained during the GA process and on CT55555's talk page after I was pinged, I do not feel I significantly contributed to this article and I would prefer to not be credited for this GA. This was not an article I reviewed and revised thoroughly. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 21:33, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Beccanyr. I have reverted your edit to the lead of Zainab Salbi and started a discussion at the talk page Mujinga (talk) 10:35, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Killing of Mitch Henriquez

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Sources for Phoolan Devi

Hello, I saw your comment that you were waiting for a review on Phoolan Devi. This is an interesting article, and I thought about opening a review, but I don't have access to all the sources. Particularly the book India's bandit queen which the article relies on heavily. Do you know if there's full text online somewhere? If not, I'm sure someone else will get around to it eventually. Thanks! Larataguera (talk) 21:47, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Larataguera:, yes it's in the GA nominations queue with lots of other articles. I have most of the sources in pdf, or could possibly send over relevant extracts. Can I check which you are referring to, is it the Mala Sen book? Cheers, Mujinga (talk) 21:55, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

yes, that seems to be the main one I am missing. Larataguera (talk) 22:10, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I've sent you an email about it! Mujinga (talk) 22:15, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

And replied Mujinga (talk) 11:11, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Phoolan Devi

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DYK for Helene Lecher

On 6 May 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Helene Lecher, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Helene Lecher's presentation at the Women at the Hague conference, which Mary Heaton Vorse described as the "most moving speech of all the Congress", urged for peace? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Helene Lecher. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Helene Lecher), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

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Your GA nomination of Killing of Fausto and Iaio

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Question from Sharwangora (10:41, 10 May 2023)

howtosellitemonflipkart --Sharwangora (talk) 10:41, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

!? Mujinga (talk) 11:22, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Photos!!!!!

So, GRuban (and me) have been corresponding with Gloria Cameron's son, trying to get freely licensed photos of her. Turns out he is a photographer, took lots of photos in the 70s and 80s and said "I may be able to help you with some photographs for the period covering some of the projects you mention that relate to my mother, such as the buildings in Canterbury Cres and Gresham road (Abeng Centre) and general images of Brixton and community projects / events at that time". Balance person, he also said he would make contact with Gerlin Bean's daughter and see about photos of her. Fingers crossed. This could be a really helpful contact for us. SusunW (talk) 18:20, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Wow SusunW that's great news! Please ask about Olive Morris pretty please :) Mujinga (talk) 18:28, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

I actually went to the talk pages on Morris and Bean and copied all the locations, names, etc that we had tried to find photos of without success. He's not in the country right now, but said he'll go through his black and whites from the period and see what he can help us with, when he returns in the summer. I think it's the most promising lead we've found to get photos of the windrush generation :) SusunW (talk) 18:43, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

This is really exciting news! Thanks for letting me know. How great that would be! Balance person (talk) 07:08, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

I know! I plan on continuing to communicate with him and will ask him, Balance person, if Bean is still living. I think not, since he said he would ask her daughter about photos, but that may be a proximity issue. We'll see. SusunW (talk) 15:52, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

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GA listing for Phoolan Devi

I've passed the GA for Phoolan Devi. The instructions say to list the article at Wikipedia:Good articles. I'm not exactly sure where to put it, but I think this is complete otherwise. Let me know if there's anything else. Thanks! Larataguera (talk) 19:38, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Hiya thanks for the review! I would suggest that the article could be listed under Wikipedia:Good_articles/Social_sciences_and_society#Politics_and_government, then political figures Mujinga (talk) 20:22, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Done. Larataguera (talk) 20:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Nice one - I'll put Phoolan Devi to peer review next and I'll let you know if I get a definitive answer on naming conventions :) Mujinga (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Phoolan Devi

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Your GA nomination of Qilombo

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WikiProject Women in Green June 2023 Good Article Editathon notification

Hello Mujinga:

WikiProject Women in Green is holding a month-long Good Article Editathon event in June 2023!

Running from June 1 to 30, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) editathon event – another Wildcard Edition! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to any and all women and women's works during the event period. Want to improve an article about a Bollywood actress? Go for it. A pioneering female climate scientist? Absolutely. An award-winning book or film by a woman? Yes! GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to receive a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.

We hope to see you there!

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Women in Red - June 2023

Women in Red June 2023, Vol 9, Iss 6, Nos 251, 252, 271, 272, 273 Online events: New: Alphabet run X, Y & Z | LGBTQ+ women | Wiki Loves Pride | Women in Music Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman See also: Women in Green: June 2023 GA Editathon event page Wikipedia:Wiki Loves Pride/2023 global campaign The Wikipedia Library: #1Lib1Ref - May 15th to June 5th Tip of the month: Looking for new red links? Keep an eye out for interesting and notable friends, family, or associates of your last article subject, and re-examine group photos for other women who may still need an article. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

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