User talk:Izno/Archive 9

Francis szpiner DYK

Hi Izno, we have noticed there is slight but serious fault in the DYK of Francis Szpiner. The mayor should have been wikilinked to the district. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 01:04, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: I have made the edit I think was requested. Izno (talk) 01:12, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, let's keep it that way. Uff. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 01:15, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

January 2022

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Category:GA-Class Glacier articles, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use your sandbox for that. Thank you. Yodas henchman (talk) 04:13, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Yodas henchman Though I know this was a template and a likely premature one at that, review MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#description. Izno (talk) 04:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

How we will see unregistered users

Hi!

You get this message because you are an admin on a Wikimedia wiki.

When someone edits a Wikimedia wiki without being logged in today, we show their IP address. As you may already know, we will not be able to do this in the future. This is a decision by the Wikimedia Foundation Legal department, because norms and regulations for privacy online have changed.

Instead of the IP we will show a masked identity. You as an admin will still be able to access the IP. There will also be a new user right for those who need to see the full IPs of unregistered users to fight vandalism, harassment and spam without being admins. Patrollers will also see part of the IP even without this user right. We are also working on better tools to help.

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We have two suggested ways this identity could work. We would appreciate your feedback on which way you think would work best for you and your wiki, now and in the future. You can let us know on the talk page. You can write in your language. The suggestions were posted in October and we will decide after 17 January.

Thank you. /Johan (WMF)

18:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

In case you were curious (WP:AE requests by year)

I corrected the 2019 numbers and counted it up going back to 2011, just for the sake of my own curiosity: [1] [2] [3]. Volunteer Marek 07:06, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm not surprised by the correlation at all. Izno (talk) 07:10, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Your redirection of Template:New message

This was an unwise redirection. I have reverted it. The template {{New discussion}} has different syntax, and the two are not compatible. Please do not make this edit again without forming consensus for it, at the very leats on the talk page where I have started a discussion. Your redirection broke certainly my own talk page. Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 08:26, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Timtrent For which I thanked you, since yes, that would break the using pages. I have subsequently submitted the template to WP:TFD. Izno (talk) 08:27, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I have placed conditional support on the merge discussion. My support or opposition depends on solving the syntax issues without breaking talk pages Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 08:34, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Shahid Kazemi Dam

Hi, Please edit Shahid Kazemi Dam. Its information is incorrect. You can follow the correct information from the following links:

• Kazemi Bukan Dam
• Shahīd Kāz̧emī-ye Būkān
• Kazemi Bukan Dam [Persian Wiki]
• Shahid Kazemi Dam (West Azarbaijan province)

Thanks. Masoud bukani (talk)

@Masoud bukani: You can try asking for help on the talk page, or possibly on the talk page of a related WikiProject like WT:WikiProject Lakes. --Izno (talk) 18:37, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	For hiding some revisions that we shall not mention. They were just absolutely awful and it pains me to know there are people on the internet like that. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 01:07, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Merge close for Template:DRN archive bottom

Did you have a plan for how to do this merge? See TFD. The DRN template has a closing div, then a table close, and then another closing div. The archive bottom template just has a closing div. I have reverted the redirect of the former to the latter, because it breaks syntax where it is used. I'm thinking that a change needs to be made to {{DRN archive top}} at the same time that the revert is done, removing the table opener and one of the div openers. Also pinging Primefac, whose redirect edit I reverted. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:18, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, my apologies, I didn't see the second </div>; downsides of editing late at night. I'd have to dig in to why there is a table start in {{DRN archive top}} before I removed it outright. Primefac (talk) 10:50, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Jonesey95 and Primefac: I was just being lazy and hoped that Jonesey wouldn't find me when I redirected it the first time (see how that worked out?!).

I think we can get rid of the outer div with the margin: 0; that looks like an ancient browser bug. We cannot get rid of the table (or some other container element; it really should be a div also) while also retaining collapsing. So maybe this TFD should be reconsidered/DRVd. (I am not personally a fan of adding a parameter to {{end}} just to allow collapsing or w/e.)

Alternatively, DRN could remove the collapsibility, which is generally unnecessary in other fora (DRV being the only other exception I know of that routinely collapses their archives--maybe these two can sync their templates). Izno (talk) 02:15, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

It's probably simplest to swallow our pride and DRV the TFD. It's not as technically straightforward as the TFD participants thought it would be, so the merge may not be reasonable. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:POTD row/styles.css

Template:POTD row/styles.css has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Q28 (talk) 10:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

BLP

Hi! You might want to look at this: [4] Doctorhawkes (talk) 07:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Deletion review for Template:Martina Navratilova

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Template:Martina Navratilova. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Sod25 (talk) 06:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Please close caption tag

Thanks for this tidy-up edit. Can you please close the caption tag that is opened near the top of the table? It's leaving new unclosed tag errors in a few pages. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:18, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: I was chasing a lint error that was present on a page due to the other function in the module and obviously got distracted poking at the one I shouldn't have been investigating. I will see what's happening. Izno (talk) 05:12, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

So, mw.html manages its own closings. There is something else on the page I think that is causing the issue and the caption tag is the one getting the blame; I see a closed caption in both my browser console and view source. Izno (talk) 05:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

I hate mw.html. Izno (talk) 05:37, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Dealing with troublesome new user

I hope it's okay to approach you out of the blue - I selected you at random from the list of "Recently Active Admins" in the hope of getting an independent view.

The background to my request is: User Hooaos is new (87 total edits), and has created 10 articles. Six of those have already been deleted, mostly for Copyright violation. I tagged two of them for deletion. Their Talk page (User talk:Hooaos) is full of advice and warnings from editors about this problem, but there is no response. It is not even clear whether Hooaos has even seen them.

So that is where I would appreciate your advice - how can we impress on them the importance of respecting copyright? And if necessary, what steps can be taken to stop them?--Gronk Oz (talk) 06:09, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Gronk Oz, it's fine to approach someone randomly, but you might have bad luck in the lottery.

This kind of case, if warnings are not sufficient to stop the disruption, usually either ends up on an uninvolved admin's desk like today, or ends up at WP:ANI (because single admins can be unresponsive in their own ways, especially for random requests which may not be exactly in that admin's wheelhouse), usually citing WP:Communication is required. There's also WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU, but that doesn't look applicable for this editor from what I can see; very few/none of the edits are tagged as "mobile edit". I almost pinged Moonriddengirl and Moneytrees as being more specialized for copyright violations, but decided against it after a cursory review indicated that many recent edits had not been reverted and accordingly were not obviously copyright violations.

You can take that as a suggestion to go to ANI or to continue monitoring the editor's edits yourself, either way. I would not want to issue a block for what I saw, but I admit I also took a cursory glance rather than in-depth review. Izno (talk) 21:36, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

@Izno: Great - thanks for your advice. That independent, expert perspective is just what I needed. I will monitor how things go, and keep the option of ANI in mind if there is a persistent problem.--Gronk Oz (talk) 01:08, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Category:Federal Republic of Central America–United States relations

Hey, Izno, need some help to fix the categorization. The former name, Bilateral relations of Federal Republic of Central America, was moved to the current name still shows up. Need some help removing the old name and have the current name included without it being manually added as I did. Thanks. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 17:15, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

WikiCleanerMan I assume it's from {{Foo–Bar relations category}}. You're going to need to get consensus for your naming I would guess, since it doesn't follow the pattern already established. Izno (talk) 18:15, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

I see. I've decided to ask JJMC89 whose bot account moved the category. But since you mentioned it, where does consensus come from for the naming, out of curiosity? The talk page for Foo-bar relations? --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:29, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

No idea. Izno (talk) 19:32, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Transcluded table as list/example table

Template:Transcluded table as list/example table has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Nigej (talk) 21:05, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

NavFrame code removal

Hello. I noticed that the collapsing broke on User:MZMcBride/Archive index, so I tracked down your edit removing it. Thank you for updating the documentation at Wikipedia:NavFrame, but I kind of wish we'd updated the code on wiki pages prior to removing the functionality. It looks like hundreds of user pages are impacted based on search results. Was this removal discussed anywhere? Are there any ongoing efforts to fix this up?

Also, it took me a minute to realize that when the documentation says "mw-collapsible (mw-collapsed)" it means that "mw-collapsed" is optional, not that it uses the literal string "(mw-collapsed)" with parentheses. Tricky. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:43, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: User:IznoBot#Task 3 was authorized to fix old uses of the display:none variant (for which you may review the BRFA where I discussed what I could do to make stuff Better, including the broader 'fix everything'), and the NavFrame removal effort generally was tracked at MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#NavFrame.

Yes, the documentation is tricky, but I wanted it to be sufficiently succinct. Improvements welcome of course.

As a note, this has been removed for just about 6 months and you are only the second user to ask about it. Which I more or less see as a successful migration.

You are of course free to automate a better fix than I provided, but I will not be able to help with that. Izno (talk) 01:20, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Please fix the coordinsert feature

FYI

 – Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Module talk:Coordinates#coordinsert feature broken. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:00, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

TemplateStyles in wrapper template

How do I add correctly Template:Infobox television episode/styles.css to the wrapper Template:Infobox Futurama episode (for the |headerstyle= value)? Gonnym (talk) 14:13, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Gonnym, in Template:Infobox television episode, |child templatestyles = {{{templatestyles|}}}, in Template:Infobox Futurama episode the typical |templatestyles = Template:Infobox Futurama episode/styles.css. IznoPublic (talk) 16:20, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! While I was doing that I inspected the page and it seemed that even without doing this the wrapper templates are already inheriting "ib-tv-episode". Is this intended or a bug (because for this current use-case it worked out good)? Gonnym (talk) 16:37, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@Gonnym: Required to make the parent TemplateStyles work of course. I guess that wants for ensuring you can add the child's class as well in case you are worried about having two different infoboxes on a page e.g. in the parent set |bodyclass=ib-tv-episode {{{bodyclass|}}} and then setting |bodyclass=ib-futurama-episode in the child. That's currently explained in the {{sidebar}} documentation correctly. Izno (talk) 18:53, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Mobile-friendly columns

Hello. I hope this is not too much to ask (if it's, never mind me!). I have been reusing some of the neat designs in the Wikipedia:Signpost to create a Movement Strategy updates page, but I don't seem to be able to figure out how to make the page into 3 columns (on desktop) versus the friendly single column (on mobile). Would you be kindly able to just orient me to the page where the correct code is? FYI, what I'm using for columns right now is the unideal <div style="width:33%> (here) --Abbad (WMF) (talk) 18:15, 8 February 2022 (UTC).

Abbad (WMF), there's kind of a mix of things going on.

Part one: If you take a look at the HTML source, you see <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r997986370">.mw-parser-output .signpost-main-page-body{box-sizing:border-box;column-width:15em;column-gap:5em;max-width:70em;margin:15px auto;padding:0 2vw}</style>, which indicates the presence of WP:TemplateStyles.

Part two: Given the class name, if you take a look at the wikisource you quickly see Template:Signpost-main-page-body-begin which holds the templatestyles invocation and the start of the applicable div. You could also have gotten to that template being the holder by using Special:ExpandTemplates on WP:Signpost. The templatestyles invocation is like templates in that it can drop the Template: prefix and still call a template page e.g. this one is calling Template:Signpost-main-page-body-begin/styles.css. Lastly, given the simplicity of this CSS (just a direct element application), it's not strictly necessary to use templatestyles.

Part three is the actual CSS of relevance from that block, which is column-width:15em;. This is what creates the columns. You can learn about these at any old CSS helper website; my preference is Mozilla Development Network (MDN). (You can Google for other details.) The gist is that the column-width rule specifies the minimum size of a column. If N columns of minimum size cannot fit on the page, N-1 columns will be tried, and etc.

Part four is the styles being added to the helper templates. Back in the HTML source of WP:Signpost, you'll see <div class="plainlinks" style="-webkit-column-break-inside: avoid;page-break-inside: avoid;break-inside: avoid;clear:both; padding:7px 0;">, the most-relevant CSS being -webkit-column-break-inside: avoid;page-break-inside: avoid;break-inside: avoid;. The first bit there is Webkit specific and isn't necessary in this day and age (cleaning the Signpost CSS up is on the to do list). So, page-break-inside: avoid;break-inside: avoid; basically tells the browser that it does not want these divs to flow their content into the next available space to keep pages balanced (which in a multi-column world would be the next column), it wants everything inside to remain in the same column it was assigned. (Browsers have some algorithm to say 'this is too unbalanced to avoid flowing content into another column, so I'm going to flow it over', but that's an implementation detail.)

Part five: since you want headers for your columns, what you're going to have to do is declare three divs, each with the break-avoid CSS, and then place your individual elements, including the headers, in each of those.

That's how that page is implemented. If I were to use a layout technology here given your desire for distinct columns and headers, it would probably be CSS flex (guide at CSS Tricks). It is easier to do this version of layout with TemplateStyles because a media query based on the width of the viewport makes it easier to handle the low-resolution case, which of course is not possible in inline CSS. Flexbox can still do it without the media query; you would have to flex-wrap to wrap and then assign some 'absolute' widths to your columns, which may not look perfect at different resolutions.

There is also CSS grid, but a) I have a lot less experience with that, and b) I think it might be unnecessary for what you want to do. (And you would probably need a media query there.) Izno (talk) 18:53, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Izno Thank you so much for this wonderful explanation (and I'm really sorry to have taken such a whole lot of your time to write this thorough walkthrough). Although my technical knowledge is limited, as someone who mostly sticks to content editing, your explanations were help understand what each part of the code is exactly doing. While I did have to refer to colleague several times for help, I was able to set this up, which uses flex box layout according to your recommendation. This seems to solve the essential problem of adapting into 1 column om mobile screens. I know, however, that it may have not been perfectly implemented (with max width code that makes the columns look bad in some cases), and if you feel it's a misinterpretation of your recommendations, I'm happy to change it. I also recognize that I already took a lot of your time - I can totally make the inquiries elsewhere --Abbad (WMF) (talk) 22:19, 8 February 2022 (UTC).

@Abbad (WMF), looks reasonable. I have some minor comments:

1. Use a min-width media query (everything at this resolution and above) rather than a max-width media query (everything at this resolution and below). This usually requires slightly less CSS to implement whatever you're trying to implement (i.e., you don't need the rule about flex-direction at all). I've implemented this just to show you the CSS decrease. (Much older browsers also threw out CSS inside media queries, which meant that it was better to fallback to just the one column when doing a size query, but I think all of those are no longer supported by MediaWiki.)
2. For wider application, use more semantic names than "box". This helps avoid arbitrary name collisions and allows users to do what they will. Not a big deal here since I guess you anticipate this being used only in the one place. (I try to keep in mind that these kinds of things tend to find other homes on other wikis, so YMMV on how much time you want to spend on naming.) Usually our names end up being the name of the template or page on which you can find the TemplateStyles, or sometimes an abbreviation of such.
3. This could use a little more testing at different resolutions. Stuff gets super-squished on the way down to 600px from desktop size. Our usual arbitrary number here is 720px, which matches a cutoff or two on the technical side, but you can experiment as you wish. This also might be fixed by plugging at flex-wrap as earlier mentioned and assigning min-widths to your boxes, an example of which can be found on mw:MediaWiki. (You can use Inspect element in your browser to see what is going on there.)
4. I see you've added flex: 1 in a few places; I might suggest moving that definition into the sheet and then giving those divs names (probably "column" or similar).
5. Consider renaming it to either be a subpage of the Movement Strategy page (you will need to adjust the TemplateStyles tag to have a colon after the first quotation mark) or at least removing the -begin in the template name (with similar adjustment).
6. I think your "justify-content: space-between" really wants to be "gap: xem".

I am happy to answer questions. Izno (talk) 22:52, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Izno Thank you again :) This is great. I have tried to integrate your comments:

1. I find this inversion very helpful. I wasn't too happy with the amount of "compression" that the 3 columns underwent with the max width before turning into one. I'm going to keep the apparently "standard" width of 720px. I'm just curious about why, with any number or resolution, there's never a middle stage of 2 columns on the page (instead of either 1 or 3). Is that option skipped due to the lack of "symmetry" with 2/3 columns?
2. I've replaced this "box" with a (not so creative) "MSBox" alternative. If you think it doesn't make sense as a name, feel free to let me know.
3. I have fixed the "flex: 1", also replaced with "Column" per advice.
4. I ended up removing the -begin, only because it seemed to be the easier solution (I only added it, in the first place, according what I saw on the Signpost templates). If you think it's still a problematic namespace, I'm happy to move it to be a Strategy subpage.
5. Replacing with the "gap: xem" is exactly what I was looking for. Finally it looks a bit orderly. This help is much appreciated!

--Abbad (WMF) (talk) 13:59, 10 February 2022 (UTC).

@Abbad (WMF): It's because CSS Columns (as in the SP implementation) allow for that. Flex does not. The fundamental thing is that in Flex (or Grid, or any prior layout technology besides columns), you have to put your content in separate containers to lay it out; right now, you have 3. As I said, you could do something like is done on MediaWiki wiki if you wanted to have a second column at some point, but your third container would be laid out as a single column. See also earlier explanation about how CSS columns work (which essentially have one container that does all the layout management itself). Izno (talk) 04:22, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

• @JPxG: These fellas seem pretty smart maybe you can learn something here. jp×g🗯️ 08:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Highlighting rows on info pages

Hello. I noticed that row highlighting stopped working at URLs such as <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Izno&action=info#mw-pageinfo-watchers>. I tracked down the change to <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&diff=1041451530&oldid=1041445295>. I liked this feature and I think it's used somewhat often. I don't understand why it was removed. Can you please restore it? --MZMcBride (talk) 03:26, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

MZMcBride No, I will not be restoring it. We do not add CSS to Common.css for a feature used externally only a total of 230 times since its introduction nearly a decade ago, and the general behavior related to the table of contents is basically not how any other table of contents works. Izno (talk) 03:50, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi Izno. I don't know why you think you get to determine what level of usage determines what gets included in MediaWiki:Common.css. The feature existed for a decade and has plenty of usage, as you note. Was there discussion about its removal? Did you ask other editors or gain consensus for the removal of this longstanding feature? --MZMcBride (talk) 04:56, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: I did not. However, in the past several months, you are the first and only user to ask the question. It seems entirely to be a personal preference on your part; you were the originator of it (yes, I did my homework before removing it) when there were a bare 2 people total involved in the original consensus discussion. Today, if you had requested, I would have personally opposed and I am fairly certain most others would have opposed. We do not add personal preferences to Common.css, especially when they present inconsistent UI for the price of a slower load time for everyone who doesn't care or doesn't know about it for the already-obscure info function. Plenty of use? It is used less than just about every widely-used template, despite existing for that long. And that's even if people realize what they've done when they've linked to a section of the info page.

As I said, I will not revert myself. MediaWiki talk:Common.css is available for a consensus discussion. Izno (talk) 07:19, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for the info.

You seem to be operating under the idea that people should be closely following and examining your edits to MediaWiki:Common.css and reporting issues to you quickly, which seems pretty wild. Most users are unfamiliar with that page and even users who are familiar with that page don't typically keep such a close eye on it.

It seems worth noting that you're relying only on locally indexed results, maybe there are thousands of uses of this functionality elsewhere.

The "inconsistent UI" argument doesn't seem to hold up when examined in context: this styling is a clone of the styling we use for clicked references, that's where I got the idea from.

With minification and compression, I doubt any system would be able to measure a difference in load time, tho I would be fascinated if you or someone else could demonstrate a load time impact from ~10 bytes or whatever.

That said, you're right that we can more narrowly target this styling, I'll attempt that. In the worst case I can re-add this feature to my personal site styling, but I like being able to highlight specific values to others in a fairly large page easily. Ideally we would have this same row-highlighting feature for wikitables generally, but we unfortunately don't output stable row markers currently.

Regarding highlighting generally, it's a fairly common feature. Google and Chrome(?) have been doing it with inline text using a URL fragment: <https://i.imgur.com/SijUkEL.png>. But, of course, they didn't have to seek your permission to do so. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 00:30, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Where it holds up is relative to how we deal with tables generally and headers generally. You will not find it used outside of references.

It seems worth noting that you're relying only on locally indexed results, maybe there are thousands of uses of this functionality elsewhere. Doesn't hold water, to use your phrase. We make technical decisions based on what is accessible to us, not some arbitrary infinity of possibilities outside that.

reporting issues to you quickly No, I am operating under the assumption that it would have shown up in one of the usual places. My talk page from someone chasing 'where did it go?' (oh, hello), or WP:VPT if someone wanted it but had no idea where it went, or MediaWiki talk:Common.css, where one would expect one of the more savvy users to end up, or even the help desk where someone could have done the necessary research. Not a whisper has reached these ears for 6 months.

performance generally I am trying to get to Common.css Zero. Common.css styling that can be shown to be widely in use trivially (as with e.g. our general HTML styling) of course won't go anywhere, but the more savings the better. Maybe someday it will have just the handful of actually-common things (as in, nothing page-specific, nothing template-specific). I have many tasks to file ahead of me I suspect. :eyeroll:

highlighting generally Yes, and Google both has hundreds of engineers working for it and something of an enterprising-monopoly on browsing. You'll note it hasn't been implemented directly in any other browser. ;) Izno (talk) 00:52, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

What a blast from the past. This was part of a much larger effort to deprecate MZ's popular "watcher" tool, that eventually was put into action=info as part of bugzilla:39957, and then given a unique CSS ID so it could be highlighted with bugzilla:44252 to win back some of the discoverability the tool had: a link that just shows you the number of watchers versus a table with tons of information. And up until 2018, it was prominently linked in the article history, so it was probably well used. I'm pretty sure more people commented on the highlighting thing on VPT or elsewhere, so I don't think it's fair to say only 2 people participated in this discussion :)

I think it is both reasonable for this feature to exist (highlighting specific information on action=info when linked) and to not want it in sitewide Common.css. This seems like a good candidate for a subtask of T71550 (no idea why we didn't do that in 2013!). Legoktm (talk) 07:54, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Ah, what link to what VPT discussion, the one not featured prominently in the edit summary to Common.css and not featured in the TPER that went along with the edit? :)

Yes, I agree that this is something that could be done in core. I don't think I'd be a fan of it as it remains inconsistent with behavior elsewhere, but it also wouldn't particularly bother me if it could be done with a special-page specific style. I don't know if that's possible or not. Izno (talk) 21:17, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Indic glyph/styles.css

Template:Indic glyph/styles.css has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 12:49, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	For all the help you rendered to me. Celestina007 (talk) 16:58, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Lua

Are you versed in Lua? I'm having an issue with the carousel in the infobox at Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs - it is not providing a caption. See Module:Carousel/WPDogs which includes a caption for each image - unless I've done it incorrectly in the Module and/or the infobox. I'm not even sure if it's changing the image. Your assistance will be greatly appreciated. Atsme 💬 📧 20:52, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I don't think that there's a problem with the module, I think that it's the way that Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs is using it. RexxS (talk · contribs) would be able to fix this in about ten seconds. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:09, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Atsme, yes, it is changing the image, and the image is getting in its alt the value of the text you've added as a "caption". What I think is the issue is that your use of string split isn't actually working. Firstly, I'd remove that use of string split from the |image= parameter - it's not necessary. Secondly, I'd adjust the now only use to target the | separator. Per documentation, that looks like |sep={{!}}.

Probably the module should be smarter and have people add some parameters with captions. Izno (talk) 21:14, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

RexxS is the one who helped me set it up. I'm not a programmer, and would appreciate it very much if either you or Redrose64 could fix the issue. I removed {{!}} in the string thinking it was the problem. Atsme 💬 📧 21:27, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Atsme reverting your edit restores the caption for me without adversely affecting that the image will change. What may not be clear is how often the image changes, which for most Wikipedia pages is on page WP:PURGE. Either edit the page or add yourself a purge link somewhere to get the image to rotate. Izno (talk) 21:32, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

It must be Chrome on my Mac because I'm not even seeing the image change - same is happening on my module at User talk:Atsme. I'll check the purge page, Firefox and Safari and see what happens. Thanks! Atsme 💬 📧 21:43, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

flatlist changes

Hi there, Izno! re: your changes to use the {{flatlist}} template in the DYK prep sets: I'd recommend modifying Template:Did you know/Clear with the same changes, so that it doesn't get swept away when preps are promoted and cleared. cheers! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 02:20, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

theleekycauldron Thank you. I was hoping I got everything. Izno (talk) 02:25, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Infobox

Hi @Izno:, Recently you had removed seasons handbox information of Pakistan Super League and Indian Premier League. If we keep that then it is easier to find or access. Thank you ! Fade258 (talk) 04:38, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

@Fade258: I don't think I mind them particularly, but they should not be in infoboxes. They should be separate Template:Sidebars in the template space and added to each of the tournament pages. The reason I removed them is because they have Template:Navboxes already that would duplicate the sidebars.

No, it's not ok to use infobox for this. Izno (talk) 04:40, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

If I am correct then you are talking about this {{Indian Premier League}}. Fade258 (talk) 04:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

@Fade258: Yes, that's the one. Izno (talk) 04:44, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I agree with you but, mobile user won't get that template until they clicked on mobile desktop mode. Hope you understand. Fade258 (talk) 04:47, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Fade258 Yes, that's a consequence. We don't work around that problem by adding sidebars manually with the wrong kind of template, we do that by ensuring the sections in those articles that should hold those links do hold those links. There are multiple reasons why they do not show on mobile, and one of them is that they are bad for bandwidth, especially mobile devices. Izno (talk) 04:50, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

@Izno:, Ok then please tell me what is your final decision upon this information/handbox? Fade258 (talk) 04:54, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Fade258 I'm not sure what that question is asking. I have laid out why it should be one way, mostly knowing what your opposition was going to be. Either you or I can make the sidebar that would be the equivalent and add it to all the relevant pages, but I don't know if that's what you want. If you don't like those options, then we can consider discussing with more people at, say, WT:NAVBOX, but I don't think that will change the final result of removing the hand-done box in question.

(You don't have to ping me on my talk page, I will be notified regardless.) Izno (talk) 04:59, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

"Genio" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Genio and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 6#Genio until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Muhandes (talk) 09:34, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

hlist?

Genuinely out of curiosity, but Special:Diff/1076081289 seems like an edit that doesn't actually do anything. Why make it? Primefac (talk) 07:59, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Primefac, it doesn't do anything indeed, except clear out a false positive for finding uses of the class (see MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#Hlist). While I can trivially filter it out, use of the 'hlist' name is also a bit implementation-specific. Izno (talk) 08:02, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Help for Turkmen Wikipedia

Hello, can you please help me... We have in Turkmen Wikipedia a page for Crimea Autonomous Republic (turkmen: Krym Awtonom Respublikasy) but in the collection of Crimea Autonomous Republic, is in turkmen the page about Crimea (turkmen: Krym), can you change the page with "Krym Awtonom Respublikasy"? TayfunEt. (talk) 09:02, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

@TayfunEt.: You will need to ask an editor on Turkmen Wikipedia it sounds like. Izno (talk) 18:04, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Template:USAF attack aircraft

I noticed that you removed links to other templates from Template:USAF attack aircraft. I've reverted your edit because I believe WP:IAR applies here. The reason is that the attack, aerial target, and amphibian sequences of the 1924 United States Army Air Service aircraft designation system all carried the "A" mission letter, which can cause some confusion among readers who are not aware of the separate sequences. - ZLEA _T\^C 03:49, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

ZLEA Then these should be links to the relevant articles, not links to the templates. Izno (talk) 04:00, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

There are no separate articles on the different sequences (most are not notable enough for their own articles anyway), hence why I believe this falls under IAR. Also, maybe I missed it, but I could not find anywhere in WP:NAV or WP:NAVBOX that states that links to other templates are not allowed in navboxes. I also don't see any technical limitations to including links to other templates, since such links are treated as regular links anyway. Is there a specific reason that you believe IAR shouldn't apply here? - ZLEA _T\^C 04:10, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

ZLEA, the point of WP:NAV is that we add links to articles on English Wikipedia to navboxes, with some exception for a handful of other user-facing links (portals and the occasional category). Other navbox templates are not user-facing links. (I can probably dig up the conversation that I am pretty sure happened on one of those talk pages about linking to other templates.)

People who may confuse two separate sequences X both named Y should be pointed to a mainspace page that clarifies the topic (I guess the one for the designation system), not be provided that clarification (obscurely so) on the navbox that purports to cover only one meaning of the term needing disambiguation ("A"). Separately, not only are these other templates not user-facing links of course, but they fundamentally only cause the confusion you're trying to prevent, IMO. "Why are these linked here? They all have "A" in their designation.... oh, that's confusing." That's not the point of this navbox. If the clarification must be made anywhere, it should be in the template documentation, but even then I don't think it's needed because the name of the navbox clearly lays the scope out. Izno (talk) 04:22, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Furthermore, WikiProject Aviation has been linking templates in navboxes for a long time, just look at the yearly accident and incident templates. I don't know if we have an established consensus to ignore any guidelines against it, but feel free to voice any concerns about it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation. - ZLEA _T\^C 04:21, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

ZLEA I'm going to take WP Aviation doing things with a grain of salt on the point of navboxes given how much effort it took to delete the "lists of" series of navboxes that did not have the actual pages included in a WP:BIDIRECTIONAL fashion....

The yearly ones have a somewhat different pattern that extends outside this area that I think should be corrected also, but that's a lot of effort to work on that problem. These ones were the small pile of navboxes that I felt comfortable working on and which showed up separately in queue of other work (i.e. I was changing them anyway and the better of the two changes was to eliminate the problem I identified rather than adjust the templates of interest to use WP:HLIST). Izno (talk) 04:28, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Template:Navbox/div?

Are you planning to continue working on {{Navbox/div}}? A group of us is working on tidying unused template pages, and this is one of them. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:02, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Jonesey95, it's a long-term project. Does adding a /sandbox somewhere in the name clear it from the report? Izno (talk) 19:14, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Transcluding it in a single page, like a user sandbox page, will clear it from the report. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:17, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Jonesey95 or Template:Navbox/testcases? Izno (talk) 20:36, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes, transcluding it there would also work. Good idea. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:33, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Why was Template:National Rail colour/doc deleted?

I don't have admin access, so it is unclear to me why {{National Rail colour/doc}} was deleted when {{National Rail colour}} exists and wants to use it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:38, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Must have misunderstood that to be a different doc page. Restored. Izno (talk) 14:44, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. It looked odd, which is why I inquired nicely instead of freaking out. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:58, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thank you for keeping Wikipedia running! 3kh0 | 3kh0.github.io (talk) 22:08, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Unsubsting with parameter issues

Hi, I'm not terribly familiar with AWB, but I wanted to point out a few diffs that I have already repaired, and see if you had a fix for that. Again, I haven't ever messed with that kind of stuff, so I'm not too sure. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 03:24, 13 April 2022 (UTC) Diffs: 1, 2, 3, 4

IAmChaos Yes, I think caught that a little later. Izno (talk) 03:27, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Main page portal removal

Thanks for making the change. You’re pulling in Wikipedia:Main Page/sandbox/styles.css, is the sandbox intentional? Stephen 23:49, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Sigh. Do everything right except the important part. Izno (talk) 23:52, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Just checking that you see a consensus in the RfC to unlink portals completely rather than moving them to another part of the main page. Certes (talk) 20:38, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Certes I believe I've implemented both items 1 and 2 from the close correctly. Do you think I missed something? Izno (talk) 21:26, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I suppose the new link at the bottom of the Other areas of Wikipedia section satisfies their definition of "moving" whilst getting rid of all links to actual portals. The change has been successful. Certes (talk) 21:37, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I do not know who 'their' is in that sentence, but the RFC laid out fairly-specific questions on where content would end up, which do appear to have been answered in the discussion. I would suggest that further questions on your part be sent over to the closer of the discussion, Barkeep49. :) Izno (talk) 21:56, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. I agree that you have implemented the close as written and apologise for questioning your edits. As you imply, I have strong feelings which it might be unwise for me to express in writing, but they are certainly not directed against your perfectly reasonable actions. Certes (talk) 22:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

New administrator activity requirement

The administrator policy has been updated with new activity requirements following a successful Request for Comment.

Beginning January 1, 2023, administrators who meet one or both of the following criteria may be desysopped for inactivity if they have:

1. Made neither edits nor administrative actions for at least a 12-month period OR
2. Made fewer than 100 edits over a 60-month period

Administrators at risk for being desysopped under these criteria will continue to be notified ahead of time. Thank you for your continued work.

22:52, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

joining

how to join the department of fun Quident (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Edit made to Wikipedia:WikiProject Nebraska

@Izno:, I recently came across an edit you made to Wikipedia:WikiProject Nebraska and I'm having some difficulty understanding what the intended change was. I had to reverse the edit because it messed with the template and broke a few things. Just want to ping you in case there is something important that I missed during my reversion, was this edit caused by the new script mentioned in the talk page?

Cheers, Etriusus 15:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Should be fixed. Izno (talk) 17:09, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

WikiProject Templates

Izno, Your edit here (Template:WikiProject_Rusyns) asserts that there are guidelines or rules for the appearance of WikiProject banners. I haven't been able to find anything to support that. Can you link whatever you based your edit on? You'll note that here, use of even Template:WPBannerMeta is a recommendation not a requirement.

Edit [20:10, 2 May 2022 (UTC)]: never mind. After a bit more digging, I was able to find the applicable guidelines at Wikipedia:Talk_page_templates. KaerbaqianRen^💬 19:57, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

KaerbaqianRen Well, I'm glad you found that. For some context, 15 years ago we had to standardize all the various now-standard "messageboxes" on articles, talk, and other kinds of pages. It was really bad before, so it's important to present a consistent look to our readers, who may also end up on our talk pages.

We do of course accept some originality on user and WikiProject pages, but that's about where the limit ends. Izno (talk) 21:31, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

AFAIK only two WikiProject banners ({{WikiProject Military history}} and {{WikiProject U.S. Roads}} don't use {{WPBannerMeta}}; there used to be many more - we got the count down to six during 2011, to four during 2015, and down to the present level of two in 2020 - but there are difficulties with those last two (I personally don't think that we'll ever do Milhist). But at least they use styling that isn't much different from the majority. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:22, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

{{notice}}

I never really got what the difference between imbox, ambox was supposed to be, and I can't believe the notice template has been here this whole time and I just didn't know about it. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:43, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Beeblebrox See Template:Ambox#Mbox family. Izno (talk) 18:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Reference desk

Hello! Some hours earlier you mentioned to me that the reference desks are barely tolerated and as I did mention even on VPT that part got my attention. Have there been formal discussions about them in here? If yes, can you point me to them? I do spend quite some time researching about the history of the overall Wikimedia movement and the early days of internet in general. I've read a lot about the beginnings of the English Wikipedia since Nupedia and the Meatballs days. It helps me understand better the communities which run such initiatives, their intentions and drives and how they have evolved throughout time. As such, this topic too appears of interest to me. - Klein Muçi (talk) 19:52, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Indefinitely semiprotecting the refdesk is from 3 years ago, Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/RfC: Should the Reference Desks be closed is from 4 and a half years ago. There are others of course. Izno (talk) 20:12, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

That was an interesting history ride. Thank you! - Klein Muçi (talk) 20:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Template:Information

Moved to Template talk:Information#General style of template (and use of mbox class). Izno (talk) 03:50, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Kevins are friends not food

Think your finger slipped on blocking that vandal on L235's talk, but the cleanup crew has taken care of things already :) CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 01:10, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

😂 - friends not food, pacman style. Iz was prolly using a smart-ass phone. Atsme 💬 📧 17:52, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. 🙄 Izno (talk) 17:53, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Meitei Script Template should not be merge

Can you give me a chance to explain and discuss before merging Template:Contains Meitei text with other template!?. It is the official script for a language Meitei language of India use by more than 2 million people and recently google even added Meitei script in Meiteilon(Manipuri) translation regards- 🐲 ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯪ ^{ꯋꯥ ꯍꯥꯏꯐꯝ (talk)} 15:12, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) There was a chance to discuss, the discussion was open for 2 weeks, now archived at this link. The community gave good reason for it to be merged, and it will not affect the output of the template. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 17:49, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

@IAmChaos If the current output of the template remains same its not a problem then but I doubt if there is redirect or deletion of this template the syntax and html view will remain same !!! , happy editing 🐲 ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯪ ^{ꯋꯥ ꯍꯥꯏꯐꯝ (talk)} 02:09, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

@Luwanglinux If you look at the documentation of Template:Contains special characters, you can see the other options for the template. Meitei will be just like for example the Armenian one, except with the currently used symbol and wording, like the other options in the documentation say. We have some wonderful editors who are very good at making templates work and appear correctly here on Wikipedia. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 02:12, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

References

Subst and delete? Template:Honorversewiki

I recommended "subst and delete" for {{Honorversewiki}} because there was/is a transclusion. You appear to have deleted it without substing it. I am not an admin, so I do not have access to the previous template contents in order to effect a graceful transition for that page, User:Piotrus/Honorverse concepts and terminology. Would you mind doing so, and watching for such transclusions in the future? Thanks as always for wielding the mop! – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:05, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Something similar happened with Template:GHBH, Template:Fighter, Template:GSKsidebar, Template:Historical usage, and possibly other templates that I had recommended as subst and delete. They popped up on the Wikipedia:Database reports/Transclusions of non-existent templates report, where someone needs to process them. I think your deletion process may be missing step 1. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:07, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: I thought I might see you here. I didn't see a need to subst any of them given that none were used meaningfully (and the one or two that were, I did subst myself). Moreover, it just inevitably spreads bad coding practice and messes of HTML and ad hoc uses of meta templates. WP:REFUND is additionally available for anyone who actually wants the source.

At the end of the day, if you really want to push for the substing of these templates on these kinds of pages, I'll just find other fora to work on. It's not worth my time to save sandboxes and one-offs on talk pages.

There is an alternative way you particularly can solve this problem if you really think these need saving. ;) Izno (talk) 23:28, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

The need to subst them (or remove their transclusions) exists in the instructions because otherwise, someone else needs to clean up after the deleter. I don't think these templates need saving or refunding, but step 1 of the instructions appears to exist for a reason, one of which is that someone eventually needs to clean up transclusions of nonexistent templates. In each of these cases, the templates existed on only one or two pages, so a quick subst (or removal) following the instructions would have saved other gnomes some work. I also do not understand your winking implication at the end, unless, horror of horrors, you are intimating that I should become an admin. I shudder at the thought. I'll go back to my gnome cave now.... – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:44, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Protecting .css pages

Hey! When you protect pages like Module:Message box/tmbox.css and Module:Message box/ombox.css, please make sure to add the protected template after protection the page. If you add the template beforehand, the page will be stuck inside Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates even when its not, and can only be fixed by a null edit (purging the page does nothing). On that note, could you also null edit the ombox to fix it? Thanks. Aidan9382 _(talk) 17:41, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Aidan9382 Please report that as a bug/task, please. Izno (talk) 17:43, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Looking at Wikipedia:Purge, this seems to be an intentional feature (See WP:NULL specifically), so I don't think its worth filing a bug/task over. A null edit seems to be the intended way to fix categorisation (About null edits: Advantages - None of the other purge methods apply to categorisation nor to "what links here" changes from template edits).

Aidan9382 I don't see anything there that indicates a null edit to remove a category after a protection should be considered a feature. Using a null edit may be the way to fix this issue, but this issue is still an issue. --Izno (talk) 17:56, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Broken Reflist?

Moved to Template talk:Reflist#liststyle and group. --Izno (talk) 22:36, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

You forgot to ping me

Thank you for replying to me at WP:HD. However, you forgot to ping me. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:35, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

ScottyWong's tools

Re: Scootywong's RFA counter tool you were asking about, I think the jackbot toolforge account belongs to User:JackPotte. Mojoworker (talk) 19:11, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I left a note on his talk page now. Izno (talk) 19:12, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

TFD suggestion

Hello, Izno,

I was looking at the edits that a sockpuppet was making and two of the edits they made were to Template:RFCNblocked. Looking this very old template, it doesn't seem to have been used very often. I knew you closed a lot of TFD discussions but looking at the TFD page, I also see that you make nominations too, so I was wondering if you could consider nominating this one if you feel that it is unused and unneeded. Thanks for consdering this request! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:50, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Someone familiar with RFCN would have been a better first stop for whether it was needed. Have to be careful with substed templates. As it doesn't appear to be used today, I've nominated it for TFD. Izno (talk) 17:16, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Side bar edits to Module:Sister project links

They look very promising! I support your edits.

I want to address a request at Template talk:Sister project links#Wikibooks Cookbook?, so I will temporarily revert the sandbox, test out my edit, and then restore your edits integrated with mine. I wanted to give you advance warning so that it doesn't appear that I oppose the edits. — hike395 (talk) 14:36, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Almost all the plain uses of Module:Side box in the main namespace need to be cleaned up before I can deploy that sandbox and the two others that depend on it, so yes, feel free to use the sandbox. Izno (talk) 17:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

June 2022

Hello, I'm Jax 0677. I noticed that you made a comment on the page RaDonda Vaught homicide case that didn't seem very civil, so it may have been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. --Jax 0677 (talk) 19:40, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

"Template:Rfs" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Template:Rfs and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 June 11#Template:Rfs until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:23, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Formatting challenges

Thank you for the assist on my formatting. Have a good day! 400 Lux (talk) 04:35, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Main page problems

Hi Izno, think there are some problems with the recent MP updates; sections are overflowing in to others - for example see TFA falling in to DYK headers and Special:PermaLink/1093003791 where TFL was spilling over in to another section as well. Can you take a quick look before I revert the latest update for tech reasons (agree that there is consensus to change it, but not to change it such that it is broken). — xaosflux ^Talk 23:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Example: File:MPspillover-Capture.PNG. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Seems like multiple section containers are not enforcing clearing on their bottom borders. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:07, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

This is easy to fix and a well-known issue (c.f.), just give me a minute to decide how best. I had some styles for this that I apparently took out at an earlier date for no obvious reason. Izno (talk) 01:09, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, it was certainly not breaking enough to force through a revert, I support the overall improvement! Looks like these are mostly a problem with "tall" images pushing down the text. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:11, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, you'd have to be rocking a 4k resolution to get this kind of issue to show up on the page on a single monitor; I had to stretch my browser window across multiple screens to get it to show up. Izno (talk) 01:13, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

On yesterday's main page I ran it to it with 1920x1080 (today's isn't). The Today's Filter List one was pushing down at even very low resolutions. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:19, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Which - just made me look - those MP updates will need to go to the other main pages to (e.g. Wikipedia:Main Page/Yesterday). — xaosflux ^Talk 01:20, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Anyone is of course free to do so. :^) Izno (talk) 01:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Ignore all rules/Workshop

In edit Special:Diff/1084519051 the "sandbox" page for IAR was turned into a redirect. It might be problematic, because a banner at the top of Wikipedia talk:Ignore all rules links to the workshop page: Don't be offended if your edit is reverted: try it out on the Workshop page, then offer it for consensus here, before editing the actual project page. Should the banner be reworded to recommend starting a discussion on the talk page —⁠andrybak (talk) 14:39, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

It's telling that in the year from working on one part of the TemplateStyles project, nobody else made a change to it, never mind that it was 2015 when the last change occurred before that. (There are some other subtitles that could use review.)

Do whatever you think is reasonable. Reinstate the sandbox with a modern copy of the IAR or remove the text of interest from WT:IAR. Izno (talk) 17:13, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Izno. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 04:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

― Tartan357 ^Talk 04:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Request help recovering a mail block

To the hardworking Wikimedia administrators： Hello! !sorry to disturb you!I am because in 2021Inadvertently log in with a unified global account Tooltip options in the boot interface registered Wikimedia software developer's account（Actually I don't have any programming experience In short, even the English ability is not good My mother tongue education is Chinese）In this situation i'm on wikipedia the majority of the time is spent exercising mere reader behavior，For fear that I will cause damage to the pages that others have worked so hard to edit There is also the human burden of the staff maintaining the website These are the actual corroborating data that can be verified by the bureaucrats Because I didn't know the purpose of the recommended registered account at the time.（Before 2021When there is no global project integration Sites provided on different Wikimedia are independent English Wikipedia and Chinese Wikipedia Between the two is to have separate user accounts Only when making any changes can there be a basis for knowing who act I also just want this site to save my preferences users will be registered Otherwise, for groups who don't know how to edit articles It makes no difference whether you have an account or not The main reason for coming here this time is after registering a developer account I was taken by a link from the introductory page to a Collaborative platform for software development The site is again managed by a Members of Wikimedia Engine's software development group invited to join Test tasks for this project but i said above I have already described my personal situation If you simply download and install apk file type This is Android The system's default application extension This type of software can be opened and used after downloading But the download and installation method of this website is not simple APK not like Google play or Apple stroy the same There is a download button Instead, use pull, requiring jargon titles of this type One can imagine I don't know what these terms mean I can only do it with the different options referring to this site Because the inviter of the project didn't teach me the actual installation process either This is no better than downloading a normal stable release app from the store.So I typed in the unfamiliar non-numeric symbols cause tasks assigned to me Trigger false alarms Results raised in multiple wrong operations are treated as Maliciously destroying the project several times in a row The email of the registered account was finally blocked Summarizing the facts The main purpose of the integration is to：1.My action is not an act of manipulation for the sake of destruction(I am doing it to complete the installation task assigned to me)The difference between the two is the actual trigger for the behavior One is the behavior that one's own thoughts do to destroy the latter is Behavior for installation(The starting point is different, the result is the same)2.After I tried to install and failed Also found this area I can no longer provide any effective assistance and after successive mistyping of symbols will also affect the work of the project So after consecutive failures I handed the task to someone who joined earlier than me another member(In my judgment at the time, members who can speak on the project have some level of programming skills At least better than an oriental who has not received English education more suitable for this task)But I was questioned again before the transfer Have you asked that member's wishes first?But before I was assigned the task The person assigning the task didn't ask me what I thought He only asked if he would be willing to help install the test,as for me I am happy to help others But I don't know how the installation is so difficult unlike usual APK One-click design to install#The main problem with this incident is that the project managers and community members The Butterfly Effect Caused by Insufficient Communication in Collaboration Platforms If every member of the community is familiar with each other And we've known each other for a long time(The main problem is Software development needs to be attended by people who speak languages ​​other than English Because Wikipedia's audience is not limited to English-speaking regions That's why I was invited to participate in the beginning Install the beta version User feedback,Actually citing a Wikipedia idea Wikipedia only provides platforms For damages caused by errors in the information on the platform does not assume any guarantee responsibility on the other hand I also have no obligation to provide any form of assistance everything just comes out of spontaneity no paid behavior there is no need for the purpose of helping others whether the resulting results achieve the goal I just accepted in good faith During my participation, there is no benefit and no compensation I also cannot have any form of benefit from the results of the project The nature of the developer and the testee are different One is for profit, it is a profession of its own The occupation of the other party is not based on software development as the main source of income All Wikimedia's Most of the above are out of curiosity,motivation to learn Those who use the platform need to sacrifice their leisure time In exchange for satisfying curiosity,explore read So in this event Is the result of my actions causing an error?I have no obligation to repair(with or without the ability to repair)The follow-up is because of the personal thoughts of the project leader arbitrary punitive behavior(banned mail,Do not Permanently ban the account on this website)do not use the site for a Human users without coding skills will not make a difference But because the project is the Wikimedia Foundation All sub-sites owned by it use the same engine software So I'm banned by infrastructure Any bans other than those generally exercised by the administrators of the respective sites This is the source that I only discovered yesterday so my internet provider provides the IPv4, IPv6If you want to edit semi-protected pages when you are not logged in, you will A page appears telling me what I'm using IP front number Currently banned This result is a problem that no one can predict This is already a missing vulnerability in the infrastructure of the website I've been looking for a lot of administrators Also contact the current CEO of the Wikimedia Foundation The message he replied to me at the time was:According to the screenshot I provided belonging is a technical issue But there has been no official information on any follow-up processing since then.Please help to pass it on to the responsible person you know How are the staff?I can't keep asking more admins about this That would be against the rules considered to be an act of harassment Hope to get your help thanks翼蝶蝶 Reply翼蝶蝶 (talk) 16:53, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Old Arb remedies

Since you have been proposing repeals of old, unneeded Arb remedies, I thought I should commend Durova to your attention. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 06:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

My interest was not in removing remedies on people but instead some content-focused restrictions. I think my general position on the point is that people should show they want to return by appealing their restrictions. Izno (talk) 16:08, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

I was referring to #Enforcement, not any of the sanctions against individual editors. Sorry, I imagine I was rather unclear. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 18:02, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Ah, yes, that special enforcement is kind of rough. Good eye. Still, probably something to go on a list somewhere. Izno (talk) 18:04, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

What especially struck me is that the prescribed enforcement seems considerably milder than how we actually handle this today; I imagine that edit warring with an administrator to restore content that violates WP:OUTING would nowadays result in an immediate indefinite block (at least pending further discussion), making the procedure described here already de facto overturned. I'd consider a motion to repeal it a merely formality. But I'll of course leave it to you how you want to handle it. It's not like I have the experience to merit an opinion otherwise. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 18:32, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Hmm, I didn't look close enough at all. So yes, I more or less agree that's de facto overturned. Izno (talk) 18:36, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:X9/styles.css

Template:X9/styles.css has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Q28 (talk) 15:10, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

2020–2021 Slovenian protests

Thanks very much for fixing that awful mess; the full history is back. I tried to do too much too fast, and will remember that . All the best, Miniapolis 13:37, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Izno. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.Martin Urbanec (talk) 15:40, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Edit notices and mw-parser-output

I've noticed that you've been adding CSS class mw-parser-output to templates for edit notices, e.g. Template:JSfile editnotice. In HTML of page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&action=edit the contents of the template are wrapped in three separate instances of divs with mw-parser-output (one of which was recently added). However, in HTML of MediaWiki:Common.js, the text of the template has only the recently added div with mw-parser-output. I don't know the reason for having text of notices to be wrapped in class mw-parser-output when viewing such pages, but wouldn't it make more sense to do the <div class="mw-parser-output"> wrapping in MediaWiki:Clearyourcache, which transcludes the edit notices? —⁠andrybak (talk) 09:14, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Tangent - why are we manually apply the "mw-xxx" classes at all, wasn't the point of them to be distinct from user applied classes? — xaosflux ^Talk 14:44, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux, WMF has declined previously to add them to messages where there might be parser output, suggesting this should be the preferred path. I don't like it either. Izno (talk) 14:52, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

@Andrybak, some comments:

1. mw-parser-output makes TemplateStyles go. No mw-parser-output, no TemplateStyles. These messages have no mw-parser-output in general.
2. I'm adding them here because Module:Message box now is TemplateStyles and soon the associated styles won't be in Common.css. See point 1.
3. wouldn't it make more sense to do the <div class="mw-parser-output"> wrapping in MediaWiki:Clearyourcache, which transcludes the edit notices I've been trying to put it at the point where the transclusion of the TemplateStyles occurs, which has generally saved me effort. {{JSfile}} saves me adding it to about 10-20 messages. {{editnotice}} about a 100. I don't have a strong preference here, but I think it'll probably be easier to teach people to put it where the box is and not in the MediaWiki space, because in one place the thing that needs the div will be visible and in the other it will be hidden behind a transclusion. The other reason why is that many transclusions in MediaWiki space are hidden behind parserfunctions that don't display in MediaWiki space, so I can't even find the messages to change. Changing the templates instead might help me dodge some consternation when the styles in Common.css go.

As a note, this all is why on MediaWiki wiki mediawikiwiki:Module:Message box adds it itself for fmbox, which happens to cover the case there fine. We're a lot more creative (one of the changes I made had an {{mbox}} sigh). Izno (talk) 15:04, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Help with CS1 modules on Thai Wikipedia

Hi Izno! I see your name as a contributor on one of the CS1 modules. We are upgrading the CS template on Thai Wikipedia. The attempt was delayed by months if not a year due to lack of understanding of the code and technical expertise. I spent days on it and finally have a reasonable hack of "if something==nil" in two places, th:มอดูล:Citation/CS1/Utilities/sandbox line 35 and th:มอดูล:Citation/CS1/sandbox line 1402. If you can kindly help us to understand/fix these two places, we should be able to convince admins on Thai Wikipedia to update the CS1 modules to the latest version of English Wikipedia. --Taweetham (talk) 04:24, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

@Taweetham, Trappist the monk can probably help more here. Just from a skim, needing to modify in_array likely indicates an issue elsewhere in the code. Modifying the other spot probably indicates a misunderstanding of some sort as to the purpose of that table. But just a skim. IznoPublic (talk) 06:42, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your suggestion. I have contacted Trappist the monk directly. --Taweetham (talk) 06:53, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Coordinates on Template:Infobox political division

I saw that you made an edit to Template:Infobox political division so I'm hoping maybe you can help me with this. On Bouvet Island we noticed that coordinates aren't being displayed when plugged into the coordinates parameter of that infobox. I checked other articles that use that template and Tobago for example has the same issue, and even compared it to other infoboxes such as Template:Infobox Country to make sure the formatting was right. It worked on those infoboxes but for some reason will not display on this one. Do you have any suggestions or advice? Thank you. - Aoidh (talk) 03:31, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@Aoidh, based on my read of the template, you need |pushpin_map=, |capital=, or |admin_center= defined for |coordinates= to be used. (I could be totally wrong.) Consider using {{infobox protected area}} instead as more appropriate for Bouvet Island.

For Tobago, the default display of coordinates is inline. If you want that to display as a title, you must define it as such in the {{coord}} use. Izno (talk) 04:58, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Arbcom question

Hi Izno - hope you are well. I've just spotted that you've added in 6.1 to the case (topic banned). How does this work for those who've already voted in the more extreme site-ban? I'm not trying to sway votes, more to find out what the process is for adding an extra proposal after several votes have already been made. I'm concerned that for those who've already voted on the ban that they might have gone for the topic ban instead. Obviously from my POV, I'd rather take a warning and topic ban over a site ban. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 11:21, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

It looks like WTT has answered your question on the talk page. Izno (talk) 15:13, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 July 20#Template:Miss Colombia 2021 delegates

Hi Izno - the discussion on the above template seems to have been closed by you, but the template hasn't been deleted yet. Richard3120 (talk) 15:31, 29 July 2022 (UTC) Edit: oh wait, I see what's happened... the template creator has been devious and switched the link to create Template:Miss Colombia 2019 delegates, an equally useless navbox, which means Template:Miss Colombia 2021 delegates is still active despite the deletion verdict. Sigh... okay, I need to send some more templates to TfD now... sorry to bother you. Richard3120 (talk) 15:38, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Richard3120, the user did in fact recreate the 2021 template, and I have WP:G4d it accordingly with a warning for the user. I have a sneaking suspicion this will be a case of WP:IDHT, but I've got a few other things to do this weekend, so I won't be able to watch over. Izno (talk) 15:58, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's IDHT or simply incompetence on the part of the editor... I know they are not a native English speaker. Anyway, I think all but one of the other annual templates they've created for Miss Colombia delegates fail WP:NENAN, so I'm going to send them to TfD accordingly and I'll put them on my watchlist and see what they do. Thanks for your help. Richard3120 (talk) 16:04, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Public high school template

I realize the discussion for this occurred long ago, but just curious as to why you decided to delete the template. I believe I justified the existence of the template. While it clearly should not be used for the body of an article, I think it would be useful to use in the infobox, as it is a string of wikilinks that appears very often in school articles, and creating a template would help standarize the format. TheGEICOgecko (talk) 05:51, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

The consensus was clearly delete as the supporters did not return to change their !vote or did not think your suggestions were sufficient. If you think something similar should be done in infobox school, that would be a topic for Template talk:Infobox school.

From my experience, "link" templates don't survive at TFD as they impose more rather than less burden. If there is a concern about a certain phrase possibly being mixed up or ambiguous, that's a question for disambiguation. Izno (talk) 00:01, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

2021 Edits as new user - making democrats pages blocked by admins

In 2021, User:Izno as a new user, you got numerous Oklahoma democrats pages blocked by Admins, today they are all WP:redlinks. Are you working for any Republican outfits, or any Republican contractors? Because your edits, seem extremely targeted.

• This user is an administrator on the English Wikipedia. (verify)
• Wikipedia Interface administrator.svg This user has interface administrator rights on the English Wikipedia. (verify)
• System-users.svg This user has an alternative account named IznoPublic.
• System-users.svg This user has an alternative account named IznoRepeat.
• System-users.svg This user has an alternative account named IznoBot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beekeeperdia (talk • contribs)

In 2021, User:Izno as a new user I was? you got numerous Oklahoma democrats pages blocked by Admins, today they are all WP:redlinks I did? Confoos --Izno (talk) 00:02, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

BRFA help template

Does the above break old use of .brfa-help-box { display: none !important; } ? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 07:02, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

No, but it does hide it everywhere now instead of the more restricted set of pages. That's just Dreamy Jazz affected. Izno (talk) 18:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Updated. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 18:33, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

OK, talk to me about why you removed the table of examples from Compound subject (again)

I've started a conversation on the the talk page because I don't understand your edit summary.  Card Zero  (talk) 06:03, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

FA process templates

Izno, Template:FA sidebar is my messy attempt at tying all the different FA process tools one needs in to one place. It has been a boon for me (and apparently others) in keeping/locating scripts, tools, different pages, etc.

Your changes to pieces of it (eg, Notices given, FAR urgents) look fine on those pages, but the overall template (FA sidebar) now has oddly centered – rather than left-justified – article names. Are you able to make a better look for the whole mess ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:17, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Should be sorted. Izno (talk) 17:19, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Excellent, thx! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:24, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Ambox on mr.wp

Hi Izno,

Greetings of the day. I am an administrator on Marathi Mr Wikipedia and i have been working on implementation of Ambox on MrWp from a very long time. Since now the css are in template Template styles yet we are unable to see the Ambox correctly. A similar local template to Ambox works well but Ambox dosen't. Can you please help in this regard.

• Ambox template
• Similar template

Thanks and regards,

Tiven2240 08:55, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

@Tiven2240, I don't think this needs to be a private discussion, so I've copied your email here and made some aesthetic adjustments. I'll take a look in a bit. Izno (talk) 16:47, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok, so this looks more complicated that you might prefer. Firstly you're going to need some sandboxes and you're going to need to be willing to work to get it working on your time, since you haven't moved to the module version of English ambox ever.

Either way, get some sandboxes started and then start testing, and when you've got a basic test case set up with what you think is broken, I can take a look. Izno (talk) 17:50, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Izno

The module version is available

विभाग:Message box

other boxes like Imbox ombox etc works absolutely fine but only Ambox dosen't display in web version. In mobile version it works well. ✝iѵɛɳ२२४०^{†ลℓк †๏ мэ} 01:45, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Tiven2240, you don't need to ping me on my page. :)

Please link to a page where you think there is an issue. Izno (talk) 01:49, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

It's very hard to find out exactly where the issue lies. I have copied all the modules and css files yet unable to get the Ambox look the way it is on English Wikipedia. Other boxes also use the same module (Module:Message box) but only Ambox is invisible in desktop view. Strange that it works well in mobile view but in desktop view the templates created by Ambox are also invisible. --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०^{†ลℓк †๏ мэ} 02:03, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Tiven2240 sure, but what page are you having this issue on? Izno (talk) 02:48, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Please have a look at साचा:लेख उल्लेखनीयता where Ambox is used --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०^{†ลℓк †๏ мэ} 03:17, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Tiven2240, mr:मिडियाविकी:Common.css#L-75 sets metadata class to display: none, which is a class also emitted on that template page in that ambox. Either 1) remove the class from the module/template definition or 2) remove the display none from the CSS definition. I more strongly suggest option 2, but that will be up to your wiki; I do not know why that display: none is there. Izno (talk) 03:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I removed the display:none yet it dosen't displays ✝iѵɛɳ२२४०^{†ลℓк †๏ мэ} 03:56, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Tiven2240 I see it now on the linked page. Now where do you want to see it but can't? Izno (talk) 03:58, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Wow it is visible now. I am very much thankful for your help, time and efforts. --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०^{†ลℓк †๏ мэ} 04:03, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Query on template use

Hi Izno. As you are a knowledgeable editor I see editing templates, template talk pages and documentation quite a bit, do you consider it a misuse of Template:Duration to use it outside of an infobox, and a misuse of Template:Start date to use it more than once in an infobox, including using it at all in an adjoining template like Template:Singles? The other day I tried to explain and link to/point out what the documentation for these templates states to another user and they instead argued with me and tried to tell me that I was in fact misreading Template:Duration and that it states it can be used in, or has a use in Template:Track listing. The user also said I should seek clarification on said template's talk page when there is no need to because its documentation explains what it's for. Without going into specifics on the situation (because that's not why I'm here), I think the user seemed to believe that wherever a date was used it should be in start date template format and wherever a duration was, it should be in duration template format, and I explained but was told to stay off their talk page. I suppose I'm asking if you can indeed confirm these templates have a specific use and should not be used outside of infoboxes. Thanks. Ss112 01:56, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I would second the suggestion that you take this to Template talk:Duration and Template talk:Start date. The page watchers there will have experience not only what those templates were designed to do, but more importantly what they actually do. Template documentation is descriptive, and if you can make something happen by using a template in a way it wasn't originally designed, there's no law that says you can't. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 23:55, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

The page watchers there will have experience not only what those templates were designed to do, but more importantly what they actually do. Yes, I agree with this.

Template documentation is descriptive Not really true in the general, and not true in the specific. These templates particularly have microformats, which are proscribed outside of certain contexts. (See also phab:T304309, where it has been remarked upon that sometimes we do things wrong with microformats. :) cc @Pigsonthewing, though I anticipate you'll want to watch out for the template talk page discussions mainly.

(I was literally just looking at this section @Vanisaac to see what I needed to respond with. Thanks for a first comment!) Izno (talk) 00:01, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

I was literally thinking about my most foundational contribution to Wikipedia and how an overeager admin accidentally broke a large number of pages because I had created and documented the template to be used in one way, but it ended up having another highly important use. But yeah, microformats and all that backend stuff can cause some serious issues, but I would hope against hope that the talk page stalkers there would be up on those as well. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 00:08, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Sorry Izno, I was under the impression you were familiar enough with these templates. If you aren't, I apologise for assuming you were, but moreso I just can't seem to get another editor to read the template documentation and agree with what I'm seeing: that the start date template says we should not use it outside of infoboxes and not more than once in an infobox, and the duration template says "can be used in" the album and song infoboxes with no word on usefulness outside of. Ss112 13:02, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ss112, VanIsaac correctly identifies that the best first place to ask about whether you understand how a template should be used is the template's talk page, even if I were familiar.

In general also, making someone have to guess at the context of a discussion is a terrible way to ask a question. :) As is asking a fairly convoluted opening question; your second comment here is much more clear on what you're expecting versus what the other editor is apparently expecting. Izno (talk) 15:49, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

You can perhaps forgive me for not thinking I would get many, if any, responses on talk pages that have not been posted to since 2020 and 2021, respectively, but I have done so now and pinged Pigsonthewing. Thank you. Ss112 16:09, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ss112, I know the feeling. Usually the best second stop after getting no/low responses at template talk pages is requesting feedback from users from WP:VPT, and then to go hunting for users. Izno (talk) 20:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:37, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

New show nearby articles feature on Kartographer maps

Hello!

nearby articles on a Kartographer map (round markers)

You receive this message because you have voted for show nearby or related articles in maps in this year’s Community Wishlist Survey.

I am happy to let you know that soon it will be possible to automatically display nearby articles in a map on Commons and other Wikimedia projects using Kartographer. This feature is one of the improvements to Kartographer the Technical Wishes Team from Wikimedia Germany has been working on. Each Kartographer generated map in full-screen mode is now given a new “Show nearby articles” button at the bottom. It can be used to show and hide up to 50 geographically close articles.

The deployment of this feature is planned for 12 October on a first group of wikis. After the first feedback phase, more wikis will follow. Read more on our project page. Your feedback and comments to our open questions on this feature are very much appreciated on this discussion page. Thank you! -- Timur Vorkul (WMDE) 15:48, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Your revert at Talk:Joseph McCarthy

Regarding Special:Diff/1114465630: sorry to have to say it, but I dream of horses was right and you were wrong on this one. You reverted the removal of a sanctions talk page banner, not an actual sanction, so WP:AC/DS#sanctions.modify is irrelevant since there was no sanction in the first place. The article may have been a DS area before the AP2 modification, but good ol' Joe McCarthy is definitely not post-1992 US politics, so the banner's presence on the talk page is somewhere between "meaningless" and "actively wrong". I'll also note that that exact banner was added by a non-admin five years ago. GeneralNotability (talk) 01:56, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

About phab:T320295

Hey Izno, sorry to bother. We're moving on with implementing a solution to the ticket you opened, but we want to know if there are user scripts that might be broken because of this. Can you help me in identifying if this is the case? Cheers, Sannita (WMF) (talk) 14:50, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

How is he supposed to be able to answer that when (AFAICS) you haven't revealed what that solution is? Nardog (talk) 15:05, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@Nardog, one can identify the impacts without knowing the exact solution given the character of the task I filed, which is a fairly direct "change the DOM in this way". Izno (talk) 16:49, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@Sannita (WMF), usually the first thing I do to check for affected things in my own work is searching, and for something global like this you need to use Global search (that needs a redirect and/or documentation). Here is a basic example of the search I would perform. It looks like the primary things that need to change are:

• commons:MediaWiki:Gadget-GalleryDetails.js
• commons:MediaWiki:Gadget-Cat-a-lot.js (and its many copies)
• commons:MediaWiki:Guidedtour-tour-wikimooc51b.js (with one or two copies)
• commons:MediaWiki:Guidedtour-tour-tuto13.js (with one or two copies)

Everything else is people changing their CSS to hide things or similar and they're not targeting the table. I checked the other classes of interest but didn't see anything. While it's possible that there are more examples of the table or child elements being targeted through some other weird choice of selectors, a good faith attempt to find things is usually sufficient.

You should regardless send a tech news notice (#user-notice Phab project) that says the structure will change, that you've identified a few gadgets that need to change, and that you've run a bot to fix the ones you know about, so please report any other issues at X location (presumably @Krinkle's global replacement script that I can never remember the name of that incidentally isn't on his "I've made this tool" page).

Incidentally, Cat-a-lot and a few others would need to change also to implement phab:T320828, so it might be a good idea to adjust those scripts at the same time that you run the bot above.

@AntiCompositeNumber, may be interested for the Commons changes directly, which would inform changes elsewhere. Izno (talk) 16:48, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

It's also good to check Code search, but as you can see, nothing particularly problematic in this case that wouldn't also be reviewed during the task implementation. Izno (talk) 16:51, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@Izno Thank you very much for this detailed answer, I truly appreciate it! I'll share it with the team to see what we can fix before deploying. And yes, of course we'll plan to give enough time to the community to know about the deployment and hopefully fix their tools before they break. Again, thank you very much, this is great feedback! Sannita (WMF) (talk) 18:40, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@Izno (I believe you might be looking for Tourbot. I didn't consider that a tool, but I've added it!) Krinkle (talk) 19:23, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@Sannita (WMF) ^ Izno (talk) 19:33, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Hey @Izno, I have some updates regarding your ticket: the team has decided to postpone its implementation, because we want to be cautious about not breaking anything and because at the moment we have some other work that has to take priority. I promise I will keep you posted on this. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 15:27, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Block request

Regarding the Dusty8686 case: can you please block Cantt191 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and the IP 73.107.174.92 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)? The IP is likely to not be a proxy based on geolocation. wizzito | say hello! 18:57, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Another sock: Yre320 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) wizzito | say hello! 22:50, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

@Wizzito, I'd prefer if you continued to use AIV for further accounts. :) Izno (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, will do, only reason I asked is b/c some admins don't realize the scale of the disruptions and only give warnings and don't block wizzito | say hello! 06:05, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

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San Jose, California

Regarding this edit. I often see these on city articles and they always look awkward. It's ok to delete them? Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:41, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677, I'm deleting them primarily because I'm gnoming another task (removing raw plainlist) and found them to be totally unnecessary, never mind awkward. If you think they should go too, be bold, just anticipate being reverted at some point.

They're some failed experiment of the sort you find in many places; you'll notice that our high quality cities articles don't have them. Izno (talk) 02:16, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

For several years I've been re-ordering US city articles so they align with WP:USCITIES. It makes the city articles look uniform, and enables editors to add new text to the right section. I've also succeeded in getting consensus on removing promotional magazine rankings from city articles.

Question...what's your opinion on the enormous "presidential election results" tables that have been added to many US city articles? Myself and another editor remove them, but not without pushback. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:17, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677, an example? Izno (talk) 19:41, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Have a look at this one. Some of them go back to the 1800s and take up half the length of the article. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:49, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677, those tables or similar appear in other non-city articles. While I might dispute using them for old elections (the colors do not line up past the 60s or 70s, and before recent times wouldn't have been colored), it does give an idea for what are often weak local politics sections. That particular article at that revision did reasonably summarize the states of things, but didn't cite the sentence doing so, whereas the stats are probably trivial for verifiability.

That said, a lot of how we deal with politics is a mess, with its modern focus on statistics and arbitrary percentages. See any of the COVID articles, which have a similar issue. Izno (talk) 20:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Nagpuri language

Hello, Izno,

I saw the activity involving this article in the Deletion log and I was just curious, what was going on here? I sense there was some big mistake that you were fixing but it seemed like you went to a lot of work repairing any damage. I was curious to what happened. Hope you are having an otherwise good weekend! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:28, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

@Liz, WP:History merge. The first move+delete was to get the articles together. The next delete was to kill all revisions so as to isolate a handful of revisions that shouldn't have realistically been part of the history (since I already had to do the merge the hard way [rather than Special:MergeHistory], thought might as well). The next few after that were because I hit some undeletion time outs trying to undelete the whole thing, so I had to split the undelete up. Izno (talk) 04:43, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I get a headache just trying to follow your explanation. I think I've done two history merges and they were pretty straightforward. And they weren't to pages with 900+ edits. I'm glad we have a few admins who know how to handle requests like this one. Thanks for the explanation. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:20, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I get a headache just trying to follow your explanation. Yes, I am left with a feeling of salt myself in such scenarios. :) Izno (talk) 05:48, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Module:Wikidata Infobox

Hi, thanks for your edits today, but the copy of this module is very outdated now - it was rewritten this summer through a GSoC project, and the latest version is on Commons. Could you have a look at the new version - or I could import it here soon? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:06, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Peel, that doesn't appear to be true, Leonard appears to have brought it here. I anticipate these are basically the same module at this point, unless Commons has made edits since September to it. Anyway, regarding the actual changes made:

1. The change for ubl is an issue also on Commons. Commons has the pertinent module as c:Module:List, so you should port my change there. (I am reducing the surface for plainlist in wikitext to support templatestyles, which was my primary reason to be at the module. I will likely have a similar hlist change at some point.)
2. The coordinates adjustments are the same, including the question about expanding the template over calling the module.
3. The module underlying getTaxonTree remains nonexistent here, so those two commentings out remains relevant here even if not there. (Though perhaps just the comment in the configuration would suffice, I am obviously not familiar with the module to know.)

Izno (talk) 23:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

@Izno: Ah, it's good the September version was synced here, thanks @LennardHofmann:. The main place for maintaining it is at commons:Module:Wikidata Infobox/sandbox though - there have been changes since September. Your changes modify the dependencies, which isn't great - the fewer the modules the better, otherwise you encounter issues like your point (3). Why is there an issue with the list? I'm also not sure about "geohack_link" - is that something available everywhere rather than needing the module? In general, it would be good to keep one main version on Commons, and discuss changes at commons:Template_talk:Wikidata_Infobox please. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:23, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Peel

1. Module:List currently has 197 links on Wikidata, c:Module:Taxontree has 2, and the module we're talking about (Wikidata Infobox) has 23 (still a full order of magnitude less). I think introducing that dependency will be fine. I am introducing it because plainlist will no longer be in Common.css Soon, it will (most likely) be in Template:Plainlist/styles.css (see MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#description). My preference, and I think it's good practice in general, is that modules and templates using a some styles have as little knowledge about the relevant classes and TemplateStyles pages as possible, and should try to avoid expanding the TemplateStyles directly if they can. In this case, I'm able to use Module:List here because the list is entirely generated inside the module.
2. is that something available everywhere rather than needing the module? Module:Coordinates and the Geohack link function was already a dependency and the change related to it was just pulling the module requirement into its own line so it needs updating in only place in some arbitrary future. The query of interest was that the Wikidata Infobox module is also expanding Template:Coordinates separately. That seems like a miss :) (I don't know why, it's a general question about whether Module:Coordinates is doing everything it's supposed to).
3. While I sympathize with a desire to keep one main version, I think that English Wikipedia is both 1) sufficiently independent not to need support from a central module/template location and 2) that we have other needs and concerns that arbitrary other wikis may not. (The quiet 3rd item is that I could TFD this template today and it would probably be successfully deleted, given its almost-0 use and its reliance on Wikidata. I contemplated removing the few uses, for that matter.) I have suggested two changes for upstream here that I am happy to port to the sandbox for a Soon-merge if you would prefer, but I am not going to spend time trying to convince another wiki on the point, so if the keepers of the module on Commons (you, I think, primarily) don't want it, English Wikipedia forks and that's how that goes.
4. Regarding the third change, see item 1. Also, dead code is dead code unless trivially configured, and I've done the bare minimum here to unconfigure it I believe (well, maybe I could uncomment the function to be the bare minimum?); that it's not listed in a configuration location would seem to be an error in the design of the configuration of the module of interest or in the choice of dependency or both.

Izno (talk) 22:55, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Module:Succession table monarch

Hello. Your recent edits at this module (which I really neither support nor directly oppose) cause some elements in the succession table (for instance, "nickname" and "native") to be pushed to the left, instead of being at the center as it was until now. You may see what I am talking about at the test list here, as well all the other lists of monarchs, that use this succession table. Can you please correct that? — Sundostund mppria ^{(talk / contribs)} 09:12, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

@Sundostund, should be fixed. That change was unintentional and I should have noticed it. Izno (talk) 19:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Comment moved where

Where did you move my comment to? Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:11, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

@Qwerty284651 Where you meant to put it. Note the namespaces. Izno (talk) 00:13, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:18, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

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Module:Diff

Hi Izno, I see that you recently edited Module:Diff, and I wonder if your edit is related to four lint errors in Wikipedia talk:No legal threats, where {{TextDiff}} is used to compare multi-paragraph texts. I naively replaced the paragraphing with <p>...</p> tags and removed the white space from the markup, which fixed the lint errors, but TextDiff processed the <p>...</p> tags as if they were nowiki'ed, which is its design. I also tried removing the bold and italic markup from the Diffing text, and that didn't make any difference. It seems that this module has problems with multi-paragraph input, and I wonder if your edit is related to this. —Anomalocaris (talk) 09:26, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Anomalocaris, no, my change should not have impacted that. Izno (talk) 15:12, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

OK, glad to hear it ... perhaps Diff help should say something about its ability to handle multi-paragraph inputs, or perhaps someone can make it more robust to multi-paragraph inputs ... —Anomalocaris (talk) 21:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

May I hack on Template:Portal/sandbox?

(and corresponding CSS)? I think I can make this work per your suggestion of using |class= for Module:List. — hike395 (talk) 00:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Whatever you celebrate at this time of year, whether it's Christmas or some other festival, I hope you and those close to you have a happy, restful time! Have fun, Donner60 (talk) 00:16, 23 December 2022 (UTC)}}

Donner60 (talk) 01:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

		Happy Holidays
		Hello, I wish you the very best during the holidays. And I hope you have a very happy 2023! Bruxton (talk) 22:15, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

A neglected kind of list

Thanks for the feedback on Module:Portal --- you've made me think about semantically-correct HTML, which is good.

I think people haven't considered the semantics of lists generated by Module:Separated entries. That code simply generates text without any markup. Would it make sense to add ul/li to the output (perhaps by having CSS similar to hlist-separated)? One immediate advantage in doing this is that plural detection in infoboxes (via Module:Detect singular) would become much more robust. I don't know enough about screen readers to know whether it would be positive or negative for accessibility

I know you're super busy trying to finish all of the plainlist work: I'm only asking for advice/guidance about whether this is a good or bad idea. — hike395 (talk) 21:57, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

@Hike395, the plainlist work is done from my project's point of view and so I have actually been hacking on hlist in the past week. (Module:Portal can be hacked at whatever speed to 'fix' it, and I forgot to do Module:Infobox3cols like Infobox is done, but I'm || this close to being done with hlist so the first one is in the backseat pile and I'll be sorting Infobox3cols as part of the hlist work.)

Module:Separated entries: Would it make sense to add ul/li to the output (perhaps by having CSS similar to hlist-separated)? You would have to be careful with changing this module, since you can't put a list (<ul>, or any other kind) inside a <p> (HTML renderers will look at you and laugh), and so you'd have to do quite some work to verify that all uses are essentially safe before introducing lists. Ignoring that part, even where it is the case that you could reasonably use something like Module:Cslist instead, that doesn't provide "final" words like "X, Y, and Z", only "X, Y, Z", which Separated entries allows for. In some cases, breaking text with <br> is reasonable if not "the best", which I believe this module is also used for in a number of infoboxes off the cuff (where plainlist could also be used, I think).

Certainly its uses could/should be audited on some reasonable (not never, not every day) frequency. Izno (talk) 22:33, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

(Also, hlist-separated is a totally unrelated class to anything of such questions.) Izno (talk) 22:52, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Re: Template:Portal -- there isn't a rush to look at it: I think the live version fulfills the requirements of an object that is semantically an HTML list but displays like a table.

Re: separated lists --- It sounds like for general wikitext, adding ul/li is not a good idea for Module:Separated entries. Or rather, the amount of work it would take isn't worth it.

Your point about infoboxes is interesting. It would be nice if lists in infobox |data*= parameters would have some extra ul/li markup. I wonder if we should look for uses of {{br separated entries}} in infoboxes and replace them with {{plainlist}}? Or uses of {{enum}} and replace them with {{flatlist}}? — hike395 (talk) 23:11, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Probably worth looking at, sure. Izno (talk) 23:13, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Re: User:RandomCanadian

Having generally found RandomCanadian to be an editor with potential to be productive (despite butting heads with him on occasion), I am genuinely shocked to see the block, particularly coming nearly half a year after his apparent disappearance from editing. Is there an investigation report somewhere? I'd like to know what I've missed. BD2412 T 04:11, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@BD2412, if you really want to know the recent history, it's not exactly hard to follow the who/why just by contribs. Izno (talk) 04:16, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Nothing sticks out to me, but I am not invested enough to dig through it. I was just surprised, which peaked my curiousity. BD2412 T 04:25, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@BD2412, you looked at my contribs, not RC's, correct? :) Izno (talk) 04:27, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Ok, now I see it, thanks. BD2412 T 04:50, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Apology

Sorry. Its been a long day for me. Doesn't excuse my actions..., but thought I'd apologize. US Man does that ":)" thing to people a lot, which annoys the heck out of us. Plus, I'm trying to do multiple things at once. Forgive me for that. ChessEric (talk · contribs) 04:48, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Izno!

Happy New Year!

Izno,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 16:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

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