User talk:Gog the Mild/Archive 4

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Promotion of Battle of Oroscopa

Congratulations, Gog the Mild! The article you nominated, Battle of Oroscopa, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:07, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Pinprick

Loved your metaphor, "Each one a pinprick, but cumulatively sucking a lot of time out of the project" (here). Just letting you know that I'm going to shamelessly steal it from now on (and have already started). If you sue me one day for royalties and win, I'll probably go broke. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 21:18, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Four Award for Battle of Oroscopa

Four Award
Congratulations! You have been awarded the Four Award for your work from beginning to end on Battle of Oroscopa. Epicgenius (talk) 02:01, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Epicgenius (talk) 02:01, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for sorting that out Epicgenius. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:08, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXXV, October 2021

Full front page of The Bugle
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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Your comments on the Battle of the Granicus

Hello, some time ago you commented on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of the Granicus/archive1. I didn't have to time to respond before the discussion there closed and took a break from Wikipedia afterwards, so I'm responding on your talk page now. I had some questions and comments. 1) Regarding widespread use of primary sources, do I understand correctly that you are specifically referring to WP:RSPRIMARY? I don't think I violated this directive in my contributions to this article. As far as I can tell I've only used ancient historians as a source when I've summarized their accounts of the battle. I've taken care to keep any interpretation and analysis of the ancient historians by modern scholarship separate and think I've made it clear with the way I've used references. If you think otherwise, can you please point to the specific place in the article text where this goes wrong? 2) Will work on the lead section for a better summary before renominating. 3) Can you be more specific about what's missing in the background section regarding "setting the scene"? 4) Will do more work on copy editing and ask for GoCER review. 5) Will expand Aftermath section to mention how the war ended. 6) I agree that a map would be nice to have, but I don't see how that is easy. Do you have any recommendations on how to start? 7) Your suggestion to discuss weapons, equipment, tactics and doctrines of the armies makes it seem to be rather extensive, but I think I get what you mean when I read Battle of the Bagradas River (255 BC)#Armies where this is discussed briefly in two paragraphs. I'll try to replicate this for the Granicus article. 7) I will read ancient battle articles which are already featured articles more closely and compare them with my article to see where it is lacking. --AlexanderVanLoon (talk) 15:08, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Hundred Years' War article titles

Hello Gog the Mild,

A fairly low-priority question, but I was curious if you had any opinion on my old comment at Talk:Hundred_Years'_War_(1345–1347)#Renaming. I'd be happy to file a multi-RM, or even a WP:RM/TR, to move the articles over, because I think the complaints about the current title suggesting multiple wars called "Hundred Years War" rather than slices of the same war is valid. However, I also think the main article maintainer(s) should be given a wide degree of deference on matters of style, and no point in suggesting a move if you'd hate the titles. Did you have any thoughts on my suggestion of using a comma, so Hundred Years' War, 13XX–13XX style? I think that makes it fairly clear that this is a specific time period of a larger conflict. My only worry with 1345–1347 during the Hundred Years' War is that since the dates are semi-arbitrary, it's a little tricky to find via autocompletion - i.e. someone typing in "Hundred Years' War" in the search box will see the "child" articles, but you'd have to guess the right starting date to see the autocompletion if the year is up front, yet the years are semi-arbitrary in this case. That said, I'd still personally prefer "13XX-13XX during the Hundred Years' War over the status quo, so I think some sort of move should be done! Any opinion yourself? SnowFire (talk) 18:54, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for asking, that is thoughtful of you. My preference is Hundred Years' War, 13XX–13XX style. It would certainly improve the current situation, and I am against the 1345–1347 during the Hundred Years' War for the reasons you lay out, plus the aesthetic unpleasantness of starting a title with a string of numbers - I can't think off hand of any RS which does that. They do use the other, eg see under "Hundred Years' War, Phases of" here. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:28, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Works for me! I moved the articles and updated the template links. SnowFire (talk) 20:48, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks SnowFire, good work. Do you have any view on supporting, or otherwise, the featured topic nomination? Gog the Mild (talk) 23:16, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
Not really? Looks like the promotion is going to uncontroversially succeed, so congratulations on your good work. Maybe you could merge the subtopics into the main topic, though? Not sure they're really needed as separate templates anymore. Unsure if there's a procedure for that. SnowFire (talk) 23:41, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
I hope so. The other nom I posted on the same day has just been promoted after seven enthusiastic supports and no quibbles, so it is looking like a tough bar to get over. Merging, there is a policy somewhere stressing the hierarchical nature of Wikipedia articles, which I read as suggesting that they shouldn't be. I could probably hunt it down if you want. And other G&FTs retain their sub-topics - see for example Wikipedia:Featured topics/Battleships of Japan and Wikipedia:Featured topics/God of War franchise. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:00, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Turtle for TFA

I listed Turtle as TFA for May 23, 2022 which is World Turtle Day. Can you make sure it doesn't get nominated before then? LittleJerry (talk) 20:50, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

I can try. I am not the only scheduler. As you have listed it in potentials it should be off the usual list. If it gets scheduled in error, give me a ping. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:54, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Congratulations, Gog the Mild! The article you nominated, Second Battle of Cape Finisterre (1747), has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) via FACBot (talk) 12:06, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2021

What is your process when promoting an article?

Hi Gog, now that I am a FAC coordinator I'd like to get started at promoting articles. I thought I would start with black-and-red broadbill since it seems to be fairly straightforward. I was just wondering what process is used to decide whether to promote an article? I assume it's just a matter of reading through the nomination and checking that all criteria have been assessed, but is there a checklist or guide anywhere to help me figure it out? Thanks in advance (t · c) buidhe 03:47, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Geez you don't want much do you? Everyone knows that all the juicy FAC rules are unwritten...! Seriously I coulda sworn Gog sent you and HF something but now of course I can't spot it anywhere. Gog, perhaps try again (unless I dreamt it all, nothing is impossible)... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Ian is possibly referring to this, which is more a checklist of what to do after you have decided to promote. I am unaware of any formalised guidance, outside the FAC page header. As to my process when deciding whether to promote, it is so nomination-specific that I hesitate to generalise from it. Have a go, bear the FAC page instructions in mind, be aware of but not bound by precedent, and email your fellow coordinators as a group with any specific queries. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:47, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
OK, thanks! (t · c) buidhe 13:16, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes, tks, that checklist of the mechanics is very good to have around. As to guidance on when to promote, I couldn't put it better than Gog did just now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

WikiCup 2021 November newsletter

The WikiCup is over for another year and the finalists can relax! Our Champion this year is Botswana The Rambling Man (submissions), who amassed over 5000 points in the final round, achieving 8 featured articles and almost 500 reviews. It was a very competitive round; seven of the finalists achieved over 1000 points in the round (enough to win the 2019 contest), and three scored over 3000 (enough to win the 2020 event). Our 2021 finalists and their scores were:

  1. Botswana The Rambling Man (submissions) with 5072 points
  2. England Lee Vilenski (submissions) with 3276 points
  3. Rwanda Amakuru (submissions) with 3197 points
  4. New York (state) Epicgenius (submissions) with 1611 points
  5. Gog the Mild (submissions) with 1571 points
  6. Zulu (International Code of Signals) BennyOnTheLoose (submissions) with 1420 points
  7. Hog Farm (submissions) with 1043 points
  8. Republic of Venice Bloom6132 (submissions) with 528 points

All those who reached the final round will win awards. The following special awards will be made based on high performance in particular areas of content creation and review. Awards will be handed out in the next few days.

Congratulations to everyone who participated in this year's WikiCup, whether they made it to the final round or not, and particular congratulations to the newcomers to the WikiCup, some of whom did very well. Wikipedia has benefitted greatly from the quality creations, expansions and improvements made, and the numerous reviews performed. Thanks to all who have taken part and helped out with the competition, not forgetting User:Jarry1250, who runs the scoring bot.

If you have views on whether the rules or scoring need adjustment for next year's contest, please comment on the WikiCup talk page. Next year's competition will begin on 1 January. You are invited to sign up to participate; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors, and we hope to see you all in the 2022 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:55, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

November songs
Congratulations! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:46, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Great work, Gog! How you managed to get this much work through, and still co-ordinate at FAC is amazing to me. The Featured Topic you made is a great piece of work! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 12:23, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Lee, especially given your stunning efforts. In 2019 you just missed out on first place with 899 points, in 2021 more than three times as many leaves you still second. I don't know how you manage it. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:29, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

WikiCup awards

Awarded to Gog the Mild for being one of the eight finalists in the 2021 WikiCup.
The featured topic prize awarded to Gog the Mild for an impressive 13-article featured topic in round 5 of the 2021 WikiCup.

Congratulations on both these awards! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:41, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

The above article will be put through trial by ordeal as TFA on 26 December 2021. Be there or be square.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:43, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Wehwalt, can we use this as the standard talk page alert for TFAs? Gog the Mild (talk) 14:55, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Truce of Calais map

Hello Gog, Looking at the map in the article (this), I'm not sure it can be verified as being accurate, as the Wikicommons page says the sources used were OSM (that's clearly OK), themaparchive.com (this appears to be a dead link), and Newm30 (not a reliable source). Is there a problem, or am I being thick? Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 13:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

I reckon this map (registration to the Internet Archive required) is the nearest to the one in your article. Happy to produce an svg version if you think it a good idea. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:03, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
If you look at the history of that Commons page you will see that I added the actual sources, but that the map maker, Goran tek-en, removed them. Newm30 consulted with me re the details and sourcing of the map and I am happy that the map accurately reflects HQ RSs. Goren tek-en is an excellent map maker and is usually careful about attribution, see this map -File:Western Mediterranean territory, 150 BC.svg - which they recently produced for a different FA of mine.
I have the Burne in the dead tree version, but prefer to use the more up to date and, I strongly suspect, thorough sources, which vary in some minor details. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:16, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Amitchell125, Gog the Mild
  • I have now updated the themaparchive link
  • Regarding Newm30, I have no knowledge, possibility or wish to check if a requester is a reliable source (what ever that is) or not, I check the sources to the best of my ability.
  • In the history I can't see what I should have removed, please link directly to that version as I don't remember this. If I did wrong I will of course change it. As you say, I'm a graphic worker and I depend on the knowledge of the requester and others. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:21, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
By the way Gog the Mild the map File:Western Mediterranean territory, 150 BC.svg (look down on the page) has become a Valued image. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 13:56, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: I think that there was confusion between you, me and Newm30 when the map was discussed. Newm30 did a fine job of communicating with you over generating the map. But they didn't let you know which sources they had used to pass information to you. Trying to be helpful, and knowing what they were from consultation with Newm30 during the process, I added them. But I messed the process up, which led to this exchange. We never did get round to adding back the actual high quality, reliable sources which I added then removed. I imagine that Amitchell125 is concerned about this lack of clear sourcing because the map now features in six featured articles - which makes it one of Wikipedia's highest profile maps, so a hearty well done to you there. I don't think it is anyone's "fault", and certainly not yours; it is just one of those things.
Would you be ok with my adding the sourcing in and your checking that I have not disturbed anything, which means that it then meets the FA criteria?
File:Western Mediterranean territory, 150 BC.svg - whew! I am not over-surprised, it was high quality work, but I am impressed. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:49, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Gog the Mild Please add the sources but as I didn't know about them at the time of the creation I'm not sure where to put them. It would kind of be included in the knowledge passed on by Newm30 to me so I changed some stuff there and where I put "xxxx" seems fine to me. See if that works for you too and ping me when done, thanks.
  • I see on that map that I do the "information" part better now so I will check that and the file itself as I evolved there too.
  • I'm thinking of nominating this map for QI and maybe VI maybe I could need some help then.
  • Newm30 This file Map of route of Lancaster's chevauchée of 1346 is about the same stuff, I can see that also needs updated (I'm actually doing that to most of my old stuff, but it takes time). Is there also lack of sources?
  • Can I ask both of you to check them when I'm done? --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 21:39, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Gog the Mild I saw your adding of sources, but shouldn't you (maybe more users) also be added as contributor with information and knowledge? --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 10:30, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
I don't think that I communicated with you over the map, only Newm30. So from your point of view as the map maker the attribution would seem correct to me. But you are the expert on Commons, so feel free to amend. From an enWikipedia PoV all it needs is the HQ RS(s) on which the map is based and there is no interest in how, or via who, the information was communicated to you.
This - File:Battle of Dunbar, battlefield map, 0530.jpg - is an example of a map produced by an enWikipedia editor at my request and based on information (mostly) provided by me. Note that my name doesn't feature at all. This may be "wrong" from a Commons PoV, but is fine from an end-user's. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:15, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Gog the Mild At commons (there are some differences towards wikipedia) you should always state if a media is derived from somewhere or where you got the information from, source. Just as you in wikipedia give references we give sources. In this case I stand as the creator but that is for the graphic work really, the knowledge and information comes from somewhere else and it should be stated. It might be from some text, image etc or from a user. It's not unusual I'm being contacted and a user wants to discuss the correctness of something in a media. I have really no idea, so for me as a graphic worker it helps a lot if all of the information and knowledge is very clear on a medias page. Then the user who wants to change something can easily see who to discuss with, or for me it's so much easier to direct the question to someone with the knowledge. So I will add you if that's fine with you. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:26, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Goran tek-en, that makes sense, and I (obviously) have no issues with your attaching my name. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:31, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Truce of Calais

I've listed this one under history, rather than warfare, based on the example of the Treaty of Guines. Any objections to this? Hog Farm Talk 02:21, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Hog Farm I don't pay much more attention to categorisation than I do to article titles, but seeing as you asked, it seems to me that a treaty which ends a military conflict is MilHist, not Hist, per my Treaty of Lutatius. I can see that this would have the effect of separating these from other types of treaty (eg trade) which may offend some "lumpers", but IMO thems the breaks. In particular it seems to me that a truce is an entirely MilHist topic and should not be put into the general history group. But I have no intention of making a fuss about any of these. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:47, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Moved to warfare Hog Farm Talk 14:31, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Hey, I've been looking around for information on non-Egyptian Ancient African music (for my long haul at the History of music article). This is probably a stretch but I thought I'd check, as I know you frequently write about Carthaginian topics, albeit warfare ones. Do you know if there are any good sources on the music of Ancient Carthage?—or perhaps Carthaginian culture in general, where I would hope musical information would be included? Grove, oxford bibliographies, JSTOR and my normal methods have led to pretty much nothing. Best – Aza24 (talk) 09:06, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi Aza24, the standard general text on the history of Carthage is
  • Miles, Richard (2011). Carthage Must be Destroyed. New York: Penguin. ISBN 978-0-14-101809-6.
It has a fair bit on culture, religion and ritual, although a skim of the index doesn't give anything on music.
  • Hoyos, Dexter (2015) [2011]. A Companion to the Punic Wars. Chichester, West Sussex: John Wiley. ISBN 978-1-1190-2550-4.
may be worth a skim, but a quick look only yields some Numidian interest in Greek music: "such details as Masinissa being a lover of Greek music are reported" (p. 397); "We also hear that Masinissa liked to invite Greek musicians and dancers to his court to provide entertainment for him and his guests." (p. 403) I did find this, which seems to be all there is. More generally, have you seen this? Gog the Mild (talk) 11:03, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Well Numidian is not the route I thought to go, but those anecdotes look useful!—a similar connection between Ancient Greek and Persian music exists. I had not heard of that source on Coroplastic sculptures though, which seems particularly valuable. I will say, it is extremely unusual of how broad of a range that source covers—geographically. The issue I've found is that there are basically no substantive modern general histories of music in a global sense, so this seems to be something of an exception for the Ancient period. So thanks! By the way, if I can spare your time for a further question, every couple of weeks I add more references and such to the List of medieval composers article. I've been including rows between composers to mark the emergence of certain musical periods, e.g. "(9th century) The Abbey of Saint Gall becomes a musical and literary center of Europe". I'm considering including more historical (non-musical) markers; currently I only really have "The Western Roman Empire falls in 476, ushering in the Middle Ages". What would you think about this?—would it be too much information and is there any small list of major medieval European events you would think to include? I'm thinking maybe the beginning and end of the Hundred Years' War, a few crusades and the East–West Schism? I guess some of it depends on how the events affected music (e.g. I know the Albigensian Crusade basically ended the troubadour and similar movements) but I feel like some events are too big to exclude, even if their actual (observable, at least) effect was minimal. Aza24 (talk) 00:50, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Aza24, I think that putting in some non-musical markers for general guidance is a good idea. Unless you have a good grip on the general history of the period be cautious though. So, off hand, yes to Fall of Rome/Jerusalem/Constantinople, Arab conquests, Columbus's voyage; no to the Hundred Years' War - definitely not notable in this context (much as I submerge myself in it)- nor, IMO, most crusades (unless they have a specific musical effect). Gog the Mild (talk) 11:34, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Also [1] and [2]. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:55, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Promotion of Truce of Calais

Congratulations, Gog the Mild! The article you nominated, Truce of Calais, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Hog Farm (talk) via FACBot (talk) 12:05, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Upload image

Hi Gog, I tried to upload the image as you recommended, but it removed all the details and links to creative commons, and therefore the attribution to Goran. I think I'm doing it wrong. What are the steps that you would use to upload it? All the best

Boynamedsue (talk) 16:00, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Boynamedsue, which article would you like the map to be in? Gog the Mild (talk) 16:13, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
This one > Dinogad's smock Boynamedsue (talk) 17:41, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Boynamedsue Sorry to step in, have you checked this post and other help elsewhere or on this page, Wikipedia:FAQ/Editing#How_can_I_add_pictures_to_pages? --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 18:11, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Goran tek-en. Boynamedsue, I have inserted the image. No doubt you will wish to change everything about it, that's fine. If you click on the image, you get a different version with Goran tek-en's name bottom left; click on "More details" to get the full attribution, plus other interesting stuff. How it is now, is how it is supposed to be. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:31, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much Gog and Goran, both of your help is very much appreciated.Boynamedsue (talk) 07:55, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Boynamedsue, Gog the Mild I'm that type of person who try to search for knowledge when I don't have it and don't understand what is explained to me. So Gog the Mild it is not out of respect but to me it seemed strange that you would have to download-upload an image to insert it for an article at wikipedia, or did I misunderstand you.
Boynamedsue I updated that sandbox page, look at UPDATE close to the end. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:04, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Goran tek-en Ahhh, now I see! Thank you very much for the information, I will be able to use this feature in the future. It has been a pleasure to meet you, thank you for all your time and hard work. --Boynamedsue (talk) 14:13, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 47

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FAC urgents list

What exactly are the criteria for adding to/maintaining the urgents listing? Pinging Buidhe and Ian Rose as well. Hog Farm Talk 16:11, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

In general I've been told that these are usually articles nearing the three-week mark which already have at least one or two supports, but need more to be promoted. (t · c) buidhe 16:54, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
I use it, and have so used it since before I was a coordinator, to list nominations which have two general supports and need a third to reach the potential minimum number for a promotion to be considered. And for Sports and MilHist nominations which have three, or more, general supports from Sports-orientated or MilHist regular editors as a way of seeking a non-specialist check; potentially for similar in other areas, but I can't recall that ever happening. I am not saying that these are exact criteria or anything, just explaining how I use it. I think that Ian Rose has a broadly similar approach. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:02, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Siege of Dundee

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Siege of Dundee you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Pickersgill-Cunliffe -- Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:21, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Would you be willing to give this one a quick skim to make sure there are no major flaws? It was passed for GA by a newer user, who left no comments on it. It's pretty short and won't be advancing above GA. Hog Farm Talk 14:47, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Looks pretty good to me. I have made a couple of minor changes, revert at will. Query:
  • "The Union force had lost either seven men killed and 38 wounded or a total of 46 men during the battle. Full Confederate losses are not known, but at least two men were killed, in addition to several wounded." You have this reversed in the infobox.
Gog the Mild (talk) 16:13, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for looking at it! Yep, that's an error - corrected. Hog Farm Talk 16:17, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

ISBN fixer

Hello Dear! Been a minute, huh? Back in the wayback you used some bot of some kind to insert dashes into isbn's on Biblical criticism. Can you tell me what it is, where to find it, how to use it? I would be very grateful for any help you can offer. I know you're terribly busy.Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:44, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi Jenhawk777, I hope that you are both busy and well. Here you go: hyphenator. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Bless you yes, I am staying busy, there is always more to do than time to do it - which I know you are familiar with. Thank you so much for this.Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:20, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Play-by-mail game GA nominee

Hi Gog the Mild. I hope you've been well. I have failed to stay away, no matter how busy I remain IRL. I've rationalized that I have to have a hobby....

I imagine at some point someone will take up my GA nomination of Play-by-mail game. But they likely won't know much about the topic. I've improved it somewhat from this version in 2019, although it's certainly no Featured Article yet. If you have some time, perhaps you'd like to review it (and I think there's no rush). I don't mind asking since I know you don't give out free passes, and I know how much you know about the topic. If your workload precludes, I know you copyedit and that's also welcome.

If not, that's fine as well. In any case, I hope you are well this holiday season. Airborne84 (talk) 23:56, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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Will wind power cites get fixed automatically do you know?

Hello Gog the Mild,

Thanks for fixing some cites. After I pruned the article drastically there were a lot of cite errors. They didn't get fixed automatically after a few hours, so I deleted all the refs in the hope I could run a bot to fix. But when I run citation bot to try and fix them I get error 502. Will some scheduled bot eventually come round and fix the errors do you know? Chidgk1 (talk) 08:29, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Ah, hi Chidgk1, good question. Unfortunately I am not a good person to ask. I know little about bots and on my articles always insert all of them "by hand". It looks as if a bot sorted things out one minute after you posted this . The referencing looks to be in decent shape to me, bar the statements that aren't cited. Are you still spotting ant issues? Gog the Mild (talk) 09:47, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
No ants! Thanks Chidgk1 (talk) 10:28, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

InternetArchiveBot

Hi Gog (love the name!) I see you have been using InternetArchiveBot to archive the refs on lots of articles. This is great work, but there is one problem: the bot has a bug, documented at phab:T291704.

The problem is that the bot does not recognise the unhyphenated form of the cite parameters |access-date=, |archive-date=, and |archive-url=. So if it encounters an unhyphenated parameter, it adds the hyphenated version. For example, if the cite uses |accessdate=, the bot will add |access-date=.

This happened in your bot edit[3] to Fuel poverty, where the bot archived the ref to https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jan/20/utilities.householdbills, and added | access-date = 2016-12-11 even though the ref already had | accessdate = 2008-05-09. That caused the cite templates to display an error message, and also to categorise the article in Category:CS1 errors: redundant parameter.

I reverted the bot edit,[4] added dashes to the relevant parameters,[5] and ran the bot again.[6]. So the refs are now archived, but the page is no longer in Category:CS1 errors: redundant parameter.

Please can you try to avoid this in future?

There are several ways of avoiding it: e.g. not using the bot until the bug is fixed, or checking the bot's edits an cleaning up after them. My own preferred solution is to use a script to add the dashes before I invoke the bot. My script is at User:BrownHairedGirl/CiteParamDashes.js, and you are welcome to use it if you want. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:45, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks User:BrownHairedGirl, will do. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Can I just say I appreciate that you are archiving links. (I do it manually, because otherwise it's too technical for me.) It is so frustrating to try to access a link from Mexico only to get a message that I either have to pay to access or that you can't get there from here. (NY Times and the Independent are the worst about that.) If someone who can see the whole article archives it, it is a huge help to those of us who cannot. Thank you! SusunW (talk) 18:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations from WikiProject Military history!

The WikiChevrons
On behalf of the Milhist coordinators, I hereby award you the WikiChevrons, for placing first in the October 2021 Military History Article Writing Contest, achieving 63 points from 5 articles. Congratulations, Zawed (talk) 09:17, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 November 2021

The Bugle: Issue CLXXVI, November 2021

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 11:25, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Siege of Dundee

The article Siege of Dundee you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Siege of Dundee for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Pickersgill-Cunliffe -- Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 15:21, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

December 2021 GOCE Newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors December 2021 Newsletter

Hello and welcome to the December GOCE newsletter, a brief update of Guild activities since September 2021.

                 Current and upcoming events

Election time: Our end-of-year election of coordinators opened for nominations on 1 December and will close on 15 December at 23:59 (UTC). Voting opens at 00:01 the following day and will continue until 31 December at 23:59, just before "Auld Lang Syne". Coordinators normally serve a six-month term and are elected on an approval basis. Self-nominations are welcome. If you've thought of helping out at the Guild, or know of another editor who would make a good coordinator, please consider standing for election or nominating them here.

December Blitz: We have scheduled a week-long copy-editing blitz for 12 to 18 December. Sign up now!

Drive and Blitz reports

September Drive: Almost 400,000 words of articles were copy edited for this event. Of the 27 people who signed up, 21 copyedited at least one article. Final results and awards are listed here.

October Blitz: From 17 to 23 October, we copy edited articles tagged in May and June 2021 and requests. 8 participating editors completed 26 copy edits on the blitz. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

November Drive: Over 350,000 words of articles were copy edited for this event. Of the 21 people who signed up, 14 copyedited at least one article. Final results and awards are listed here.

Other news

It is with great sadness that we report the death on 19 November of Twofingered Typist, who was active with the Guild almost daily for the past several years. His contributions long exceeded the thresholds for the Guild's highest awards, and he had a hand in innumerable good and featured article promotions as a willing collaborator. Twofingered Typist also served as a Guild coordinator from July 2019 to June 2021. He is sorely missed by the Wikipedia community.

Progress report: As of 30 November, GOCE copyeditors have completed 619 requests in 2021 and there were 51 requests awaiting completion on the Requests page. The backlog stood at 946 articles tagged for copy-editing (see monthly progress graph above).

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Dhtwiki, Tenryuu, and Miniapolis.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

Distributed via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:02, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations, Gog the Mild! The article you nominated, Hamilcar's victory with Naravas, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Buidhe (talk) via FACBot (talk) 12:06, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations, and thank you today for Battle of Panormus, introduced: "The next gripping instalment in "Battles of the First Punic War". The last of the only four land battles of the 23-year-long war. There are elephants!"! - We have the second day of Christmas, card 3 for you if you like. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:21, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Survey about History on Wikipedia

I am Petros Apostolopoulos, a Ph.D. candidate in Public History at North Carolina State University. My Ph.D. project examines how historical knowledge is produced on Wikipedia. You must be 18 years of age or older, reside in the United States to participate in this study. If you are interested in participating in my research study by offering your own experience of writing about history on Wikipedia, you can click on this link https://ncsu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_9z4wmR1cIp0qBH8. There are minimal risks involved in this research.

If you have any questions, please let me know. Petros Apostolopoulos, paposto@ncsu.edu Apolo1991 (talk) 17:52, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

@Apolo1991, I don't reside in the US, which I assume makes me ineligible? Gog the Mild (talk) 17:59, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild That's correct. Apolo1991 (talk) 21:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Apolo1991: It has been politely suggested on your talk page that you should begin these contacts with "If you are resident in the United States...". You would save many of us from frustration and wasted efforts if you could adopt this simple change.--Ipigott (talk) 21:40, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Io, Saturnalia!

Io, Saturnalia!
Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and distraction-free. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:54, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Siege of Dundee

On 18 December 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Siege of Dundee, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that General George Monck accepted that 500 Scots, including women and children, were killed when his army stormed Dundee in 1651? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Siege of Dundee. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Siege of Dundee), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations from the Military History Project

The Military history A-Class medal with oak leaves
On behalf of the Military History Project, I am proud to present the A-Class medal with Oak Leaves for Battle of Rethymno, Siege of Guînes (1352), and Siege of Tunis (Mercenary War). Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 00:30, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Greetings!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2022!

Hello Gog the Mild, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2022.
Happy editing,

Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 09:21, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Truce of Calais

Hi Gog Very nice page, congrats. My only true frustration is I couldnt find a proper list of the agreed conditions or signatories or allies affected by the the truce. Personally I like lists, I dont like huge bulky paragraphs. If you can direct me where I can find a proper list of agreed conditions or names of affected allies I will be very grateful. Kind regards. Caracal Rooikat

Hi Caracal Rooikat. I too like lists and bullet points, I find them more accessible than prose. Sadly Wikipedia disagrees, for its own ineffable reasons. If I had included the terms of the treaty as a list, the article would not have passed FAC. As so often with Wikipedia, thy or my personal preferences count for little.
Further, as a tertiary source editors are expected to write in a summary style; ie, including every jot and tittle of the details of the truce and the numerous amendments agreed during its various extensions is just what I am not supposed to do. This is an encyclopedia, if you are after "a proper list of agreed conditions" - "proper" of course being a subjective matter - perhaps you should be looking for the original text of the various agreements?
The main points of these agreements and any restrictions on interactions with allies are summarised in the text. Eg "the English [were] confirmed [in] their possession of all their territorial conquests in France and Scotland; the Flemish were confirmed in their de facto independence from France; and Philip was prevented from punishing those French nobles who had conspired, or even fought, against him" etc. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:41, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Hello Gog the Mild, I wanted to wish you and your loved ones a merry Christmas! Thank you for helping me navigate the FAC process for the first time this year. I hope you'll have a blessed holiday period. All the best, Modussiccandi (talk) 09:57, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356 you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 14:21, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Subsidies in Iran needs update to remain good

Subsidies in Iran has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Chidgk1 (talk) 17:06, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 December 2021

The article Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356 you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 21:41, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

The article Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356 you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356 for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 23:01, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Review

Hi, many thanks for your review of Charles Richardson (Royal Navy officer). I'm going to give ACR a punt as you suggest, but am awaiting the arrival of another Walcheren source first. On a completely different note, I believe you're the only editor I've seen recently to have worked on English Civil War articles, and I wondered if you might be kind enough to have a read through of the Storming of Shelford House? I've already got it to GA but am in no way an expert on the period, and have my doubts that I've accurately explained the wider picture surrounding the event. I'd appreciate any comments, or suggestions for better sources, that you might have. Thanks again, Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:04, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Pickersgill-Cunliffe, I would like to respond via email, but you have disabled this feature. Would it be possible to, at least temporarily, enable it? Gog the Mild (talk) 21:29, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
I wasn't aware that it was an option! I've changed it. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:34, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, December 2021

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:09, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

A quick follow up

Hey! I'm going back to the List of medieval composers and trying to implement some of your suggestions on what general time periods to include. You mentioned the Fall of Jerusalem, but I wasn't sure which one you were referring to? Best – Aza24 (talk) 20:18, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Siege of Jerusalem (1099). It seems to me to be the sort of event that even people who don't do history may have a vague awareness of. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:44, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Gog the Mild!

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

GAN Backlog Drive – January 2022

Good article nominations | January 2022 Backlog Drive
January 2022 Backlog Drive:
  • On New Year's Day, a one-month backlog drive for good article nominations will begin.
  • Barnstars will be awarded based on the number and age of articles reviewed.
  • Interested in taking part? You can sign up here.
Other ways to participate:
You're receiving this message because you have conducted 10+ good article reviews or participated in the March backlog drive.

Click here and remove your username from the mailing list to opt out of any future messages.

--Usernameunique

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles at 21:18, 31 December 2021 (UTC).

Congratulations - September 2021 MilHist Contest

The WikiChevrons
On behalf of the Milhist coordinators, I hereby award you the WikiChevrons, for placing first in the September 2021 Military History Article Writing Contest, achieving 66 points from 9 articles. Congratulations, Zawed (talk) 02:42, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Congratulations - November 2021 MilHist Contest

The Writer's Barnstar
On behalf of the Wikiproject Military History coordinators, I hereby award you the Writer's Barnstar for placing second in the November 2021 Military History Article Writing Contest with 25 points from 2 articles. Congratulations, Zawed (talk) 02:44, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Congratulations - December 2021 MilHist Contest

The Writer's Barnstar
On behalf of the Wikiproject Military History coordinators, I hereby award you the Writer's Barnstar for placing second in the December 2021 Military History Article Writing Contest with 35 points from 3 articles. Congratulations, Zawed (talk) 02:45, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

The Military History Writers' Contest Cup: 2021 Winner!

The Military History Writers' Contest Cup
Congratulations on a massive effort in the 2021 Milhist Writer's Contest Cup! On behalf of the behalf of the Wikiproject Military History coordinators, I am pleased to award you the Contest Cup having taken first place overall, with a total of 455 points from 47 articles. We hope to see a similar effort for 2022! Zawed (talk) 02:51, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Zawed, appreciated. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:21, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Military Historian of the Year, 2021

The Silver Wiki
Congratulations, Gog - you have with Hog Farm been named the Military Historian of the Year Runner-up for 2021 by popular vote. Please accept this token of appreciation for your contributions. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 14:44, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Some advice

Hey, I hope you and yours are well and enjoyed your holidays. I know it's been a minute since we talked, but I am in need of some advice, and I thought you would give the best advice in an honest straightforward manner. No flattery, just my honest opinion. I hope that's okay. I have another article Christianization of the Roman Empire that I have nominated for GA, but that I think really needs to be FA. Its content is important. But it's very very long, and while I don't mean to be annoyingly timid, I am afraid to go through what I did last time only to fail. It truly broke my heart. I know, I was way too invested. I am trying to be more distant on this one, but, well, let's just say I'm concerned about the response to it because of its length.

So I had this idea. What if I request a team of reviewers who each do different sections of the article instead of the whole thing? Taking a bite of elephant isn't as overwhelming as trying to eat the whole thing. :-) Could that work? It's an article on a single idea, so it isn't readily divisible, or I would learn from my previous mistake and divide it; instead this is actually a merge of what were previously two separate articles. They didn't make sense separated, but they do in combination. But it is really long. I have done all the prep work I didn't know to do before, and I have even had an FA mentor go through it. He advised me not to shoot myself in the foot by mentioning length ahead of time, and to wait and see what the response was, and I will follow his advice with everyone else, but you I wanted to ask up front: is it too long to even consider really? I don't want to begin the process if my chances are slim to none. I'll just stick with GA and be thankful for it. You don't have to read the whole thing, just if you would please, take a quick look and tell me if you think I am better off leaving FA alone. Or just tell me you're too busy. At any rate, Thank you. Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:41, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Response emailed. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:24, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Got it! Thank you so very much. You are both helpful and kind and I am grateful. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the 2022 WikiCup!

Happy New Year and Happy New WikiCup! The 2022 competition has just begun and all article creators, expanders, improvers and reviewers are welcome to take part. Even if you are a novice editor you should be able to advance to at least the second round, improving your editing skills as you go. If you have already signed up, your submissions page can be found here. If you have not yet signed up, you can add your name here and the judges will set up your submissions page. Any questions on the rules or on anything else should be directed to one of the judges, or posted to the WikiCup talk page. Signups will close at the end of January, and the first round will end on 26 February; the 64 highest scorers at that time will move on to round 2. The judges for the WikiCup this year are: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · email) and Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs · email). Good luck! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:36, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the 2022 WikiCup!

Happy New Year and Happy New WikiCup! The 2022 competition has just begun and all article creators, expanders, improvers and reviewers are welcome to take part. Even if you are a novice editor you should be able to advance to at least the second round, improving your editing skills as you go. If you have already signed up, your submissions page can be found here. If you have not yet signed up, you can add your name here and the judges will set up your submissions page. Any questions on the rules or on anything else should be directed to one of the judges, or posted to the WikiCup talk page. Signups will close at the end of January, and the first round will end on 26 February; the 64 highest scorers at that time will move on to round 2. The judges for the WikiCup this year are: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · email) and Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs · email). Good luck! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:02, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

ACR

Hi, per your wishes, just butting in to say that I bravely put Charles Richardson up for ACR today. Thanks, Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 20:52, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Congratulations from the Military History Project

The WikiChevrons
On behalf of the Military History Project, I am proud to present the WikiChevrons for participating in 17 reviews between October and December 2021. Peacemaker67 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

feedback request

I've been asking for feedback for 6 months. Given that you shut off such feedback, it seems ridiculous to go to yet a 6th place to get feedback. This is a frustrating, unnecessarily circuitous process. Buffs (talk) 00:42, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356

On 13 January 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356 was the most important campaign of the Hundred Years' War? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

TFA-related question

Hello again! I hope you are doing well. I have a quick TFA-related question. I was thinking doing a TFA request for "No Panties" for the July 16 slot later this year. It would be the 20th anniversary of the song's release so I thought it would be an appropriate time to feature a more obscure song. However, I was uncertain if the article would be considered appropriate for the main page given the rather explicit title. What are your thoughts about it? If it is not appropriate, that is completely okay with me as I am just grateful to get the article to the FA level. Aoba47 (talk) 01:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

burnt candlemas

Gog, i had a question regarding this article. do you know what the basis is for the statement that the truce of the 1357 treaty of berwick lasted for four decades? presumably, the statement is referencing the 1400 english invasion of scotland as the conflict that broke the four-decade truce. however, the anglo-scottish wars campaignbox lists three incidents, the 1372 battle of duns, the 1385 english invasion of scotland, and the 1388 battle of otterburn, that occur within those four decades, and without knowing further what is meant by "truce" in the statement, they all ostensibly appear to break it. dying (talk) 20:36, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi Dying, thanks for that, very helpful. It has retaught me a lesson I thought I had learned - never, ever trust anyone else's referencing. It turns out that I have been accepting this statement in good faith from another editor. Goodness knows why, as, as you point out, it is clearly not correct! It is cited to the impeccable Given-Wilson and Bériac, but seems to have hiccupped in the paraphrasing. The original is here and references the four decades back to the Battle of Neville's Cross. Which figures - the "battle" of Duns involved no fighting and the English intruders withdrew after penetrating just 10 miles - so I assume they date the end of the truce to Richard's invasion. I have tweaked the phrasing to better reflect the source and changed four to three. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:16, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
February songs
frozen
Thank you today for Burnt Candlemas, introduced: "The 1356 English invasion of Scotland is little discussed. It gets little mention in English sources because it failed. Perhaps not surprisingly when they depended on resupply by 14th-century sailing ships in the dead of winter. And little in the Scottish sources because they provoked it by breaking a truce and weren't proud of their strategy of destroying their own crops, livestock and buildings and then running away. I believe that I have extracted pretty much all there is in the sources and that it is ready for FAC. Doubtless I am as wrong on the latter as I usually am, so have at it."! - Quite a brutal affair, - my "Candlemas" article, TFA in 2018, was softer ;) - It had its DYK exactly 10 years ago - as I just saw checking the wording ;) - 2022 began with vacation, check out "songs" - I took the pic in memory --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:55, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, January 2022

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 09:45, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 January 2022

Your GA nomination of Battle of Poitiers

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Battle of Poitiers you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 06:40, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Battle of Poitiers

The article Battle of Poitiers you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Battle of Poitiers for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 21:00, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Battle of Poitiers

The article Battle of Poitiers you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Battle of Poitiers for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 05:01, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 1

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Battle of Poitiers, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Breteuil.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:57, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 48

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 48, November – December 2021

  • 1Lib1Ref 2022
  • Wikipedia Library notifications deployed

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --15:12, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

help?

I know you have missed me. I have finished Africa and am rewarding myself by doing a woman. But, of course, that means that I need help. So, in 1973, she earned £130 per month. I am not so sure that converting that to current wages is helpful. But doing a context search, I discovered that the minimum wage in 1980 was Z$1,200 and in 1990 the average earnings were Z$8,000. That seems to give better context, but is it possible to convert those to £s? The Zimbabwean dollar (ZWD) was created in 1980 and was replaced in 2006 by the 2nd Zimbabwean dollar (ZWN), so the good news is we are only dealing with converting one currency to another currency. Can you help and would you just insert the conversion in the note? SusunW (talk) 20:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I shall research and report back. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. You know I appreciate and rely on your help and skills. Hope all is well. SusunW (talk) 21:06, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
The Wikipedean article seems well sourced and states "At the time of its introduction, the Zimbabwean dollar was worth more than the US dollar in the official exchange market, with 1 ZWD = US$1.47, although this did not reflect the actual purchasing power it held." Although the source says "Zimbabwe's currency - worth $2 when Mugabe came to power at independence in 1980" - here under "New taxes, tolls for Zim - and a little tax relief". Meanwhile this, which seems more reliable, says "When this conversion occurred, a Zimbabwe Dollar was valued at 1.47 United States Dollars, but because Zimbabwe had higher inflation than the United States, the Zimbabwe Dollar steadily depreciated against the U.S. Dollar."
Also "Over time, hyperinflation in Zimbabwe reduced the Zimbabwe dollar to one of the lowest valued currency units in the world. It was redenominated three times (in 2006, 2008 and 2009), with denominations up to a $100 trillion banknote issued." So the 1990 figure should be used with extreme care. (Or not used at all.)
So you could cite wherever that minimum wage number, citing where it comes from plus the second one above to say something like 'The official minimum wage in Zimbabwe in 1980 was Z$1,200, or USD1,764, per year.' footnoting some or all of that. I would include "official" as I gravely doubt that this number bore any relationship to actual wages.
Was this what you were after? If not, do say so. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:35, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
Yes and no? (It's helpful to me, as I know what I earned in the 1970s in the US). But, I think it would be confusing to readers to reference dollars as opposed to pounds, since her salary was given in pounds (It's pretty confusing to me, anyway.) So can you tell me in pounds? We can leave out the 1990 figures all together, since it seems that the hyperinflation tanked it. Also, can you Britishise the draft? I think I am pretty much done short of trying to find a photo, damn near impossible, and expanding the lede. SusunW (talk) 22:22, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
According to this, not the most RS I have ever seen, a pound GB purchased an average of USD2.33 in 1980. So Z$1,200 = £757 in 1980, a bit rough and ready plus caveats. I'll do a copy edit over the next few days. If I don't please nag me. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:37, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi SusunW:

  • I am giving the article a very light copy edit. Revert anything you don't like.
  • Nice article. Give me a ping when it goes to GA.
  • I am having my doubts about that 1980 comparison. There was a lot of inflation between 1973 and 1980. To the extent that a British pound of 1980 was only worth 35% of its 1973 value in terms of purchasing power. By and large wages were going up commensurately.

Gog the Mild (talk) 11:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I really appreciate the help. Gotta work out the pictures first. I found some, just not sure about copyright and stuff. Waiting on GRuban to weigh in. I'll let you know. As for the wages, I'll try searching again, would be lovely to find some government report from Rhodesia, but so far no luck. I tried and tried to find something about nurses wages specifically but no go. We'll see. Perhaps on your side of the pond the search would be different as Rhodesia was a British colony, albeit a recalcitrant one? SusunW (talk) 15:11, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
Okay, well lots of research later, maybe this is more helpful? If we look at the chart on page 587 There were approximately 26,180 Africans employed in the "official" labor market in 1972 in Rhodesia (counting the approximately 1000 self-employed persons based on "local knowledge"). If as this says the Rhodesian dollar was pegged at the South African Rand, her earnings of £130 were equal to Rh$239.09? (I am totally assuming he is using Rh$ and not US as he is a Rhodesian scholar and it was published by the Cambridge University Press.) If that is correct, she was clearly in the top bracket of Black workers. Then there is this see "ANNEX 15 page 20 of 48" that talks about African vs. European incomes and food expenditures. Is any of this a better comparison? SusunW (talk) 20:28, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Maybe it's better. I found a couple of reports giving data from 1969-1974. SusunW (talk) 18:15, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Definitely Rh$ in the first article, he says so. Photos done, nominated because it's a short time before March 8th and I hope she'll be reviewed by then. Again, I thank you for your help. SusunW (talk) 14:37, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
I went to earmark this for review but have been beaten to it by 40 minutes. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:31, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
I appreciate your diligence. Did you read the last note? Is it better? SusunW (talk) 19:38, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
I did and yes. Looking forward to seeing it at FAC. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:00, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Just wondering

Hey Gog, long time no speak. Hope you and yours are doing well!
Just wondering. I recently added some information about the long-standing and rather well-known campaign of revisionism/negationism by the government of the Azerbaijan Republic.[7] Would you be willing to copy-edit this section I just added? I know it might sound like a rather off-beat request, but I would like an experienced editor who's not too heavily involved in this topic area to give it a look. Would appreciate it. If you're uncomfortable with making copy-edits in such articles, please don't hesitate to let me know, and I will try to find someone else. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:11, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi LouisAragon, it has indeed been a while. I am happy to copy edit, I copy edit anything. Would you like a light touch or the works, including MoS compliance? The latter will be cognizant of "While quotations are an indispensable part of Wikipedia, try not to overuse them. Using too many quotes is incompatible with an encyclopedic writing style ... It is generally recommended that content be written in Wikipedia editors' own words. Consider paraphrasing quotations into plain and concise text when appropriate".
When are you going to grace FAC with another nomination? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:31, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
Awesome Gog, thanks. Although we didn't communicate for some time, I did keep an eye on ya through The Bugle. As far as I could see, you were quite busy producing work of good quality (as usual). As for the quotes and my request; sure, that wouldn't be a problem I think. by all means, go ahead and feel free to rephrase them in order to get rid of the quotes. The most important thing for me is that the original message of the source is carried forth, which in this particular situation is pretty important. Readers should know that even a seemingly simple carpet museum is basically solely being used as a tool to spread historical negationism and irredentist nonsense. For more background info: [8] - LouisAragon (talk) 20:02, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
  • "When are you going to grace FAC with another nomination?"
I think I would like to raise a few more articles to GA first before I get to that. Speaking of, I think the Azar Bigdeli article, which I brought to GA recently, could be a decent candidate (?). - LouisAragon (talk) 20:02, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
  • Mmm. I have started this and have a first draft. I don't think you are going to be happy, as I have trimmed it down to what I see as relevant to this article and then "summary styled" it. I have set it up in a sand box so feel free to say "thanks, but no thanks" and not use it. If you do want to use it I'll fine tune it and check the citing. See here. Let me know your thoughts.
So nominate it!! Or tell me that you are definitely going to nominate it and I'll copy edit. Not that it needs much. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:53, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
That looks like a good concept. However if you wish to elaborate about the long-standing relevant attempts of Azerbaijani historical negationism, one would definitely need to integrate the "in relation to Iran" section into it as well (please scroll a bit down[9]). I believe the concept, at the moment, only mentions the material from the "in relation to Armenia" section?
Personally, I'd vote for just including the relevant information from the 2021 carpet source, whilst maintaining the "see also: Historical negationism#Azerbaijan" link at the top of the section. Azerbaijani negationism stretches far and wide; we'd have to introduce the history of such attempts on every single article. IMO, we should keep it as concise as possible so that people can have 1 "main" page where they can see the large history of such attempts. Lemme know what you think. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:23, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
I said I'd need to tweak it. I didn't want to put serious work in if you were going to veto the concept. My first thought on looking at what you had done was WP:UNDUE - a lot of weight on a single article in a single source. Plus no context. Putting the article in some sort of context makes its claims more difficult to refute I thought. If you agree I'll amend the draft in a serious way. I disagree BTW, that this should be "as concise as possible"; a brief context and an example or two seems reasonable. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:29, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
Got ya. Sure, go ahead! - LouisAragon (talk) 23:40, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
Any updates? :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 23:59, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Invitation to discussion: FAC 4 nomination of nonmetal

Please accept this note as an invitation to participate in the discussion of this latest FAC nomination for the nonmetal article.

The context is that you were involved in the FAC 3 discussion for the article (which was not prompted) or you are an editor who made a recent edit to the nonmetal article.

Thank you. Sandbh (talk) 07:11, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Childhood of Henry V

Morning Gog,

By a very roundabout route, I have become interested in who raised Henry V after the death of his mother. The articles that we have seem to be confused as to whether it was Maud Francis, Countess of Salisbury, or Margaret de Monthermer, 3rd Baroness Monthermer. Were they the first and second wives of John Montagu, 3rd Earl of Salisbury? The article on Henry V doesn’t mention it at all. I am way out of my historical period here! Do you happen to know, have a good source on this? Hope you’re well. KJP1 (talk) 10:34, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Morning KJP1. That is outside my period too. But I think I have a source which may help. I am away from home at the moment, but should be able to check it next week. If I don't get back to you, could you give me a nudge? Gog the Mild (talk) 10:44, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
That would be very kind. I shall nudge you in the latter part of next week. Thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 10:51, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Morning all. @KJP1: the first thing to remember is that the children of the aristocracy often had as peripatetic lives as their parents, so they didn't necessarily "grow up" in one place as we might do today. Secondly, bear in mind that since Henry was not born to be king, precise records are sparse and to some extent, speculation must be inevitable (as, indeed, our two articles you reference show). However, the two vital historians of the reign—and biographers of the man—Christopher Allmand and Anne Curry both agree on what broad facts are known. Henry had a wet nurse, Joan Waryn, to whom in recognition, etc., in 1415 he granted an annuity of £20 p.a; he also had a governess, Mary Hervy. He seems to have spent much of his youth in the care of his maternal grandmother Joan, Countess of Hereford at Bytham Castle, Lincs. But he—and his brothers—also spent time at Tutbury, Leicester and Kenilworth, for example, which were duchy of Lancaster lands. (Ref: Allmand, C. Henry V (Berkeley, 1992), 9—10.)
Not a Montacute to be seen, in fact! Hope this helps. Cheers, SN54129 12:37, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Serial Number 54129 - Very interesting, although not altogether helpful for the article! There is certainly a strong local tradition that Henry was brought up at Courtfield e.g. [10], [11]. And it's all over our related articles. Historic England mention it in their Courtfield listing, although they equivocate over who was actually doing the bringing up, [12]. And this entry on the notorious fake nevertheless suggests he was raised at Courtfield, [13]. Is it actually the case that none of the vital historians mention Courtfield at all? KJP1 (talk) 12:49, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
@KJP1: Yes, I'm afraid it looks like it. It's the sort of thing that would have a strong local tradition, isn't it? By the way, the Forest of Dean hist. soc. says he was there from 1287 to 1394: see the significance of the date? SN54129 13:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Serial Number 54129 - Yes, I noticed that. So our articles, e.g. Welsh Bicknor, which state he was raised at Courtfield after the death of his mother can’t be right, as she didn’t die until 1394. How very disappointing! I shall just have to fall back on the old saw, “local tradition asserts….” Ah well. Many thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 13:08, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
@KJP1: (what a lot of lovely pings we're generating for Gog when his hangover clears up!) To me, it's actually the one thing that makes it likely. After all, we know he was born in Monmouth, so it's quite probable—and certainly possible—that he stayed with his mother there until she died, and only after that did he get shunted out to Joan of Hereford. That would square the circle. Just change the after, to before...? SN54129 13:16, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
With sincere apologies for all the pings, and for filling up your Talkpage, I’ve made a Start for Courtfield, Welsh Bicknor. It’s a house with quite a story and I’d still be very interested if you, or Serial, or any other of your TPSs, could dig up anything in offline sources that mentions it. I’ve Googled it to death, and can’t find anything else online. Thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 16:44, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't do houses, but it is possible that Girth Summit may be interested. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:38, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
I shall make enquiries and report back... Girth Summit (blether) 22:12, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
I'm afraid my enquiries were fruitless. This is too early for L's bookshelf, and too un-Scottish for mine. I'll check back in if I come across anything - might be having a drink with some mediaevalists next week. I'll ping Richard Nevell, he has been very helpful in the past when I've been looking for sources for buildings, he might have something to add? Girth Summit (blether) 16:02, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
@KJP1: The Woolhope Naturalists' Field Club have a couple of bits and pieces from their print publications (hosted on their website): 1, 2, 3. I've only briefly skimmed them, but there look to be some interesting bits about maps, the gardens, and the chapel. You may already have come across them, but local history and archaeology group websites aren't always well indexed by search engines. Richard Nevell (talk) 22:25, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

For what it is worth, Desmond Seward writes "He shared a bedroom and a governess with his brothers. He had a nurse to whom he was devoted ..." Gog the Mild (talk) 21:45, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Many thanks all for looking. Much appreciated. And no, Richard, I’d not seen all of those, so I shall burrow through to see what I might glean. Best regards. KJP1 (talk) 06:17, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

tfa

February songs
frozen

Thank you for promoting and scheduling my joy - more on my talk --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:05, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Valentine's Day edition, with spring flowers and plenty of music --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

stand and sing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you today for Battle of Drepana, introduced: "When I nominated an article on a naval battle from the First Punic War - Battle of Cape Ecnomus - FunkMonk commented "hope it becomes a series!" And so, specially for them, this account of Carthage's only naval victory of the 23-year-long war."! - adding to yesterday's (which was a bit cryptic perhaps but I was dead tired): I clarified that I'll expand Prayer for Ukraine, and translate to German, and look for others for other languages, and an extra brave one for Russian. How about a series of peace? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:55, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Anything you would like to say or add to the discussion on the Talk page? Editor2020 (talk) 23:49, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Donough is promoted

Good Day, Gog the Mild (not calling wikipedians "Dear" any more). I woke up this morning (in the UK) to find that Donough MacCarty, 1st Earl of Clancarty has been promoted to A-Class overnight. User:Hawkeye7 took that initiative. Many thanks to him! Many thanks to you, who has mentored me so patiently. Thanks to all the other reviewers, drivers-by, and coordinators:

Eleven eminent wikipedians have therefore been involved in various capacities. Thanks to them all for having pushed this heavy load forward and kept it afloat to the eventual promotion; – and for teaching me many lessons. The review started on 27 February 2021 and was closed 19 days short of its anniversary. I think I will give Donough a long rest. I will go on with the 12 apprentice-reviewer exercises You recommended. I am at number three:

I still admire your user-page photo of leather boots in the snow on top of Stob Coire Easain, Scotland. Nobody there to hold the camera. Best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 11:02, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Shadow magazine source review

Re this, did you miss Nikki's source review? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 04:34, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I did. Thank you. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:59, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Easter egg

Thanks for the thanks! I'm inordinately proud of that little thing, probably because I was waiting some years before there was a Larry to join the others (I couldn't quite come up with anything to fill that spot myself).

I'm lead coordinator at GOCE again, with another blitz ready to kick off in a few ticks. Got myself up to 'senior editor' in the service awards and had a few small DYKs (the latest being La Poutine Week) but nothing major article-wise since last Canada Day. A bit difficult finding the time lately.

You're still busy on the FA front and with Milhist? Yeeps, 10 coordinators, how do you keep that organized? – Reidgreg (talk) 23:55, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

I stumbled across it and loved it. Good to see your humour getting ever drier.
Really? Good. I keep thinking I'd like to do a little work there, but I'm so busy with other things, not to even mention real life, that it will never happen. I get a steady flow of requests to copy edit anyway.
I remember well your poutine article. Made me hungry every time I looked at it.
I am now an FAC coordinator and a TFA scheduler. And closing in on 50 FAs and 100 GAs. As well as a MilHist coordinator: we don't even try, we just mill around and try not to let anyone realise what goes on below the surface.
Gog the Mild (talk) 00:19, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Congratulations, Gog the Mild! The article you nominated, Hundred Years' War, 1345–1347, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Hog Farm (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:05, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

user:Cavalierfawkes

I noticed that you have also reverted edits by this user. Their edits in general seem to have been regularly reverted by other editors, might be useful to keep an eye on them. They are currently edit warring with me on Battle of the Spurs. Urselius (talk) 12:38, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Urselius: Yes, many of the reverts of Cavalierfawkes' edits have been made by me. They have made some useful edits, but many show a not uncommon pattern of being unaware of many of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. A little discussion of their edits has taken place here. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:51, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. They do seem to be something of a petty nuisance. Lots of small edits, pushing a POV agenda. Urselius (talk) 14:29, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

TPS alert!

My latest FAC - here - has been open for four weeks and is struggling a little to attract attention. If one or two of my talk page stalkers would care to look over it I would be most grateful. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:25, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Now that dyk has finally gone back to one set a day, I'll add some (non-milhist) comments, JennyOz (talk) 18:14, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Saline Valley salt tram

Hi @Gog the Mild: How goes it? I was wondering, can anybody talk at a FAC review. Thanks. scope_creepTalk 14:38, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi scope creep, It goes well thanks. Yep. At FAC anyone "can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard", as they say elsewhere. So get in there! Gog the Mild (talk) 14:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
That is the first full belly laugh I've had all week. :) scope_creepTalk 14:54, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Another satisfied customer. Good. Gratuities are optional. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:56, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Four Award

Four Award
Congratulations! You have been awarded the Four Award for your work from beginning to end on Hundred Years' War, 1345–1347. Usernameunique (talk) 17:25, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Nine Four Awards in only three years—and only one left to hit the leaderboard. Very impressive! --Usernameunique (talk) 17:35, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Wierd that no-one can see it though :p SN54129 17:43, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Apologies, just realised that the talk page coding is purely for categorisation purposes. Shame though; what's the point of jewellery if you can't rattle it in the front seats  :) SN54129 18:15, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Well, yeah, but as my collection is reaching Evitan proportions even I tend to come over all becomingly modest about it. Difficult as that may be to believe. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:21, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Talking of your modesty, is it worth mentioning de Umfraville to User:Usernameunique do you think? SN54129 12:21, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
In hope of a review? Why not? Gog the Mild (talk) 12:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
How goes Poitiers, by the way? SN54129 15:09, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Gog the Mild

Why do you keep reverting my changes? You know very little about what you are editing Cavalierfawkes (talk) 20:16, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

@Cavalierfawkes: Well, that gave me a good laugh. For several reasons: Partly because I know a lot about what I am choosing to revert; partly because many of your edits result in wildly inconsistent articles, I assume from an ignorance of the basics of how Wikipedia works; even more because I have yet to find an edit by you with a source to support it; because despite several people pressing you to read and then act on it you have repeatedly ignored WP:BRD (let us not even mention WP:FAOWN); but especially because many of your more recent edits have been, or have been indistinguishable from, pure vandalism. If you believe that I am out of order with my reverts the place to report me is possibly WP:ANI. The administrator Hog Farm has taken an interest in your edits and may wish to have a look at my reversions.
Seriously, I suggest you calm down, read the policies that have been pointed out to you, and stop trying to WP:RGW. And then, when you do do edit, do not just edit the infobox, leaving the article and/or the lead contradicting it, and support every change you make with a cite to a WP:RS. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:41, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
I agree with what Gog says here. Gog knows very much about the subject matter involved, although as an Ozarks farmer's son, I do not. But what I can tell from this, Cavalierfawkes, is that quite a few of our edits introduce errors/inconsistencies/etc without providing sources. For instance this ends up having the "Kingdom of England" on both sides of the battle. That doesn't follow Wikipedia conventions even in civil war situations; only one side would truly represent the "Kingdom of England". This results in internal inconsistencies between Anglo-Saxon and Kingdom of England, and this is poorly advised given the distinction between the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire at this point. Cavalierfawkes, slow down and make sure everything is sourced, accurate, and consistent. Hog Farm Talk 21:38, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Query...

Josef Glazman - under MilHist or not? Going to nominate for GA and not sure whether to stick him in a milhist category or not... -- Ealdgyth (talk) 23:55, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ealdgyth, good to hear from you. Yeah, as a partisan leader he should be MilHist tagged - he is now. Ping if you would like me to assess the GAN. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:59, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

If you thought Manasser was short...

Check out Feologild - it's about the shortest I'd ever consider nominating for GA. THAT is making bricks without straw! Ealdgyth (talk) 15:19, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

I saw that one, noted "was probably a medieval English Archbishop of Canterbury" and decided to leave it for some other mug. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
(talk page watcher) Ealdgyth a partner for the shortest FA...also your own work  :) SN54129 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
And I thought I was pushing GA length with CSS Tuscarora ... Hog Farm Talk 20:02, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Ha! I get roped into a lot of formal minute taking IRL. My all-purpose minutes read "Foolish things were said. Poor decisions were made. All men are idiots." I have yet to minute a meeting to which they did not apply. I have no idea why I ever write more. There will be a prize for anyone who knows where I stole that from. We can probably come up with something not much longer to cover all military conflicts. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:36, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
In my "computer gaming day-ish job" (its a very small niche game - no I don't work for Blizzard) I get to run monthly meetings of the development staff. The shortest meeting we've ever had was "Ya'll did good last month, I don't got anything. You guys got anything?" (silence) "Okay, we're done! See you next month!".
As for Feologild - if he didn't have an ODNB entry, I'd probably not have nominated him for GA but... -- Ealdgyth (talk) 20:42, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Sorry if I seem grumpy...

Been dealing with a recalcitrant trough heater for the herd for the last 2.5 days. Yes, it involved me hauling 75 gallons of hot water across the Wisconsin landscape to unfreeze some of the trough-shaped-ice-block I developed. No, it wasn't fun. Yes, its fixed now, after too much hauling and stuff. (grumps some more). Ealdgyth (talk) 20:06, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed your grumpiness rising above the background level. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:08, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Oh goodness. And I thought it was onerous when I was growing up to chop ice with an axe on the ponds in the cattle pastures in the much-milder Missouri winters (between breaking ice, taking down small trees/brush, and killing snakes, if you had to break the axe out, it was guaranteed not fun). Hog Farm Talk 21:19, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Clan Cameron Clan Donald allies

The Battle of Milroy 1688. Clan MacDonald of Clanranald fought side by side against government troops. THAT'S why they are allies. Stupid prat Cavalierfawkes (talk) 22:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Gog the Mild

Also Clan Donald and Clan MacDonald are the same Clan. Learn your stuff before reverting my changes Cavalierfawkes (talk) 22:53, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for editing your comment to remove the direct insult. The one you have replaced it with is not much of an improvement. If they are the same, why have you twice changed the latter to the former in Clan Cameron? Edit warring to do so. What is the evidence for either usage? If we have only your opinion that one should be preferred above the other your change is liable to be reverted. Do you have any sort of source backing either usage? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:02, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
PS This sort of edit will ensure that your experience of Wikipedia is short and not sweet. Desist. But well done for correctly using the edit summary. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:06, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Looks like Cavalierfawkes is now marching the high road away from glory 😀 SN54129 13:10, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

What...

You don't want to review an article about a doomed Jewish resistance leader in the Holocaust? Like you think it'll be depressing or something... (I have a whole pile of the victims of the Holocaust that need to be memorialized properly but .. dang, it's depressing and I can only do so much before I just ... can't... read... any more about the subject for a while. ) Ealdgyth (talk) 00:16, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 00:23, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Oh, you dind't have to! I was just teasing... Ealdgyth (talk) 00:59, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, yeah. Have look at my recent FAC nomination. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:01, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
I'll look later. I did Robert de Umfraville also on top of the transport one you asked about. I've wasted enough time on Wiki today ... off to "real work" Ealdgyth (talk) 16:33, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Battle of Poitiers

I promise I will look at it. Probably early next week. My husband's birthday is this week and his older brother and wife flew in from the frigid north. I owe you so many and truly appreciate you. SusunW (talk) 15:31, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Your 50th FAC! Impressive. - Dank (push to talk) 16:03, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
All MilHist, in fact all military conflicts (bar the 49th, also nominated yesterday), but I like to think that I have a decent spread, from 264 BC to 1945. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:29, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
There's some wisdom in focusing on the things that work, on WP and in general. - Dank (push to talk) 19:43, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

New book on the chevauchée

See this review: [14]

Thanks Sturmvogel 66, appreciated. That is on the chevauchée of 1355, not 1356, and I used it heavily in the FA Black Prince's chevauchée of 1355. It gets some use in my two current FAs Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356 and Battle of Poitiers - feel free to look in on the latter . Madden is an excellent writer and historian IMO. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:19, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
You're using her thesis, which probably formed the basis for the subsequent book. But I'd be curious to see what the difference is between the two. In my experience the book is usually somewhat rewritten for a more general audience, but sometimes new data is incorporated.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:39, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
You are of course quite right. I have got hold of a copy of the book and look forward to investigating. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
Congratulations, Gog the Mild! The article you nominated, Black Prince's chevauchée of 1356, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Hog Farm (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:05, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Any chance I could get a B-class review?

For WP:MILCON purposes - I recognize as we are very close for 1st/2nd you may have a conflict of interest here, but I just wrote CSS Pamlico last night and would like to avoid the awkward spot of something being written in one month, but not actually assessed until the next. Only about 1,000 words. Not as cruddy of a vessel as the one the Confederates let rot apart, or the one the Confederates sunk on the eve of a naval battle because it was more useful as a obstacle than a warship, but still not a great ship. There is a zero percent chance that this ever goes further than GA. Hog Farm Talk 17:34, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

The same offer also applies to Squib-class torpedo boat, if you would prefer to read about vessels a little further down the quality scale. Hog Farm Talk 06:25, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Sure, once RL quietens down a bit. Gog the Mild (talk) 09:05, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Pamlico is B, but has already been done. I'll look at Squib. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:08, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Done. I seems strange to me that three ships completely different in specifications from the lead boat are included in its class. Ah well.
You may be overanalysing. While it is called a "contest", it is meant to be a bit of fun. If I ever care about it enough to start gaming it, it will be long past time for me to take a Wikibreak! Gog the Mild (talk) 16:28, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Thank you! Hog Farm Talk 20:11, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 February 2022

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A tag has been placed on Battle of Kowang-san requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person, a group of people, an individual animal, an organization (band, club, company, etc.), web content, or an organized event that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Wendylove (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Help?

We both know I am a bit (okay probably a lot) OCD, so for a FAN is there a rule about use of e-books? MOS says "If there are no page numbers, whether in ebooks or print materials, then you can use other means of identifying the relevant section of a lengthy work, such as the chapter number or the section title." That seems confusing to me and like how would you do that, in page put the chapter name, like sfn|Doe|2010|p=chapter on X? Methinks I would just try to find one with page numbers, but it is a real question. I am working with Mujinga to prepare their first nomination here. (No, not mentoring because I just don't think I've done enough FA to actually do that, but I am trying to help.) How would you handle it? SusunW (talk) 18:55, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

SusunW, sfn|Smith|2002| and in the source template use the |loc= parameter; this will allow either a hyperlink to a page (if available), or a searchable term for the reader to ctrl+f within the document. Or, and less to my liking, use {{sfn|Smith|2022|loc=Chapter 11 (Search phrase "April 28, 1997")}} or a variant thereof. Does that make sense? Was it what you were after? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:52, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Thank you! I've linked this discussion so that Mujinga can follow it. Truly appreciate your help. SusunW (talk) 19:57, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
That's helpful, many thanks! Mujinga (talk) 21:05, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Mujinga has nominated this, as a first-time submitter for FAR. I hope we've done okay in preparing it — they did all the heavy lifting, I merely guided them based on my limited knowledge of the process and extensive background in women's/Caribbean history. I looked at every single source during the peer review. Not sure if I did it right in my comments, seems weird to call it a "spot check", but if I did it wrong, I trust that you'll fix it for me. SusunW (talk) 15:06, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Looking at every single source most definitely counts as a "spot check", an exceedingly thorough one. Thank you for that. As an FAC coordinator I am always grateful for every review, (almost) no matter how it is formatted, and yours are always clear and to the point. I have played around a little with the section headings: the changes make your comments a little more user friendly for the coordinators and follow the FAC instructions a little more closely. But if you object to the change, feel free to revert it. And thanks for your involvement in this article. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks! I really am trying to learn the process. It's hard for me. I didn't actually check formatting and that stuff, because you know I am terrible at technical stuff. But I asked Mujinga to do title case, 13 digit isbns, and add links where possible, which was done. There are some blogs I probably wouldn't have used, but most are from libaries, archives, or university personnel, so I kinda doubt that they are unreliable — such hosts are unlikely to damage their reputations by publishing "junk". Obviously, if someone else thinks otherwise, they are free to note that. I find it incredibly hard to read "around" refs in the body, but Mujinga likes that style, so after checking all 18 of the noms pending on the day I checked and finding they used varying styles, I said do what you are comfortable with. I appreciate you! SusunW (talk) 22:48, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
I have given it a very brief skim and added a couple of things which jumped out. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:01, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIV, February 2022

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 22:22, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

FAC close, vague title here

Apologies to bother you with this, but the nominator at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/He-Man as a gay icon/archive1, which you (rightfully) closed earlier today, is being quite rude with me. I do not wish to intervene more, considering the content of the most recent message, and could use a neutral party. I may not be responsive throughout the evening, as my real-life job also decided to be stressful today, and I am either going to spend the evening finishing some content work or playing video games to decompress. — GhostRiver 22:54, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I have left a note on the nominator's talk page. My usual TPSs have no doubt taken note. I am off to bed, but let me know if the inappropriateness continues and we will see if we wish to call in the cavalry. Have a good evening. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:31, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your services, and I apologize for the inconvenience. Rest well. — GhostRiver 00:57, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

[15] (t · c) buidhe 00:20, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

I've tried to fix it but I'm not 100% sure what the bot does so you should double check tomorrow. (t · c) buidhe 00:23, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
I know how to fix all the pieces. I will re-close the FAC, make sure it's in the right archive, and re-do the articlehistory, so theoretically, neither Gog nor FACbot should have to do anything. Stand by, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:33, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks Sandy, you're a lifesaver! (t · c) buidhe 00:37, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
In the Days of the Dinosaurs, we had to do this stuff manually.
  • It was already in the correct archive.[16]
  • On the FAC page, I just re-added the FACbot close that Buidhe had reverted, and then edited to correct it: [17]
  • Removed the star: [18]
  • And then I built the article history, incorporating the previous GA (which FACbot missed): [19] (That's why I run through everything post-bot :)
That should be everything, but it is concerning that there was a GA nom last month; some sort of adminly action may be needed wrt the editor: [20] Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:47, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Oops, this, too (something new to me, so only saw it when I went to check user talk for behavioral messages). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:00, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

A PS on this to Buidhe, Gog and Hog Farm, lest you ever get pushback on something like this. What makes an article an FA is being added to WP:FA by a Coord (just as what makes an FA demoted is being removed from there by a FAR Coord--that's why we take such care to make sure the number is spot on). If Gog had added the article to FA in error, I would not have felt comfortable undoing it; waiting for him would be better because that is the "official" Coord action, while the FACbot, articlehistory, etc edits are just bookkeeping. That Gog did not add it to FA is what made it definitively fine for a lowly ex-delegate to fix the bookkeeping. It was never promoted. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:56, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

So it's true. If you sleep through your mistakes, brownies will clear them all up in the night. Thank you Sandy, thank you Buidhe; sorry about that. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:32, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Glazman...

There's some background I can fill in... do you think it's worth trying for FA with him? I'm a bit frightened that you didn't find much more to complain about.... my prose usually isn't THAT good... Ealdgyth (talk) 15:30, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

WikiCup 2022 March newsletter

And so ends the first round of the WikiCup. Last year anyone who scored more than zero points moved on to Round 2, but this was not the case this year, and a score of 13 or more was required to proceed. The top scorers in Round 1 were:

  • New York (state) Epicgenius, a finalist last year, who led the field with 1906 points, gained from 32 GAs and 19 DYKs, all on the topic of New York buildings.
  • Christmas Island AryKun, new to the contest, was second with 1588 points, having achieved 2 FAs, 11 GAs and various other submissions, mostly on the subject of birds.
  • Kingdom of Scotland Bloom6132, a WikiCup veteran, was in third place with 682 points, garnered from 51 In the news items and several DYKs.
  • Philadelphia GhostRiver was close behind with 679 points, gained from achieving 12 GAs, mostly on ice hockey players, and 35 GARs.
  • United Nations Kavyansh.Singh was in fifth place with 551 points, with an FA, a FL, and many reviews.
  • SounderBruce was next with 454 points, gained from an FA and various other submissions, mostly on United States highways.
  • United Nations Ktin, another WikiCup veteran, was in seventh place with 412 points, mostly gained from In the news items.

These contestants, like all the others who qualified for Round 2, now have to start scoring points again from scratch. Between them, contestants completed reviews of a large number of good articles as the contest ran concurrently with a GAN backlog drive. Well done all! To qualify for Round 3, contestants will need to finish Round 2 among the top thirty-two participants.

Remember that any content promoted after the end of Round 1 but before the start of Round 2 can be claimed in Round 2. Anything that should have been claimed for in Round 1 is no longer eligible for points. Invitations for collaborative writing efforts or any other discussion of potentially interesting work is always welcome on the WikiCup talk page. Remember, if two or more WikiCup competitors have done significant work on an article, all can claim points. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed.

Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 (talk) and Cwmhiraeth (talk) MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:07, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Treaty of Guînes scheduled for TFA

The Treaty of Guînes article has been scheduled as today's featured article for April 6... Thanks! Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:52, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

and the Battle of Oroscopa on April 29,

Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:05, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Thirty Years War

I'm not clear why this was failed or what constitutes a "consensus", given I have answered all the queries and the only person so far to make an assessment has supported it.

If I go back to the editors who bothered to comment and ask if they support or oppose, would that work? I know (from other conversations) at least two would, which would make three out of four. It seems odd to simply fail it without even asking this fairly simple question. Robinvp11 (talk) 14:42, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

I have reopened the nomination. No edit of any sort for over five months would meet most definitions of "no consensus to promote seems to be forming". Also, it is for the nominator to chase tardy reviewers, not me nor anyone else. Good luck with it, an important topic like this could do with some TLC. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:33, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
Also, it is for the nominator to chase tardy reviewers, not me nor anyone else. I wasn't previously aware of this so thank you.
Apologies for bothering you once again but the MILHIST bot has just failed it again even though all three editors who had queries support it. I'm assuming this is some sort of automatic thing but what is it? Robinvp11 (talk) 15:40, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) - I think I know what it is, will check ... Hog Farm Talk 15:46, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
@Robinvp11: - this is fixed - when the ACR was reopened, the |A-Class= parameter in the article history should have been resent from =fail to =current. This has been done now, so you should be good to re-transclude onto the ACR page. If you'd like, I can also remove the March 20th ACR fail from the article history as not a fail, although it doesn't hurt anything to keep it around. Hog Farm Talk 15:49, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for that :) Can it now be deemed to have passed A class review? I'm assuming that has to be done by someone that isn't me. Robinvp11 (talk) 16:13, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
It'll need at a minimum three supports and passed image and source reviews. Once it meets these, it can be closed by one of the MILHIST project coordinators who has not recused from the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 16:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
It has all of these. Robinvp11 (talk) 09:38, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
Also, I realise I don't understand what "re-transclude" means or what it involves. I'm assuming it has something to do with restating it onto the Assessment list but I don't know how to do that. Robinvp11 (talk) 09:41, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

First featured article

Hello there,

I would like to bring the article archive.today and/or Internet Archive to Featured Article status. I think it would be a good place for me to begin writing about. In your opinion, do you think it is possible that any of these articles can be brought to FA status? In particular, is there a length requirement for FA articles? I am relatively new to the FA program so any tips are appreciated. Rlink2 (talk) 18:08, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Way outside my area of knowledge. But in principle I would have thought either could, almost certainly the latter. Length: More than 10,000 words may be frowned upon and require justifying. There is no minimum requirement, so long as "it neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context". Gog the Mild (talk) 19:39, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Sourcing question

Hi there! I'm trying to bring C. J. Cregg up to GA (and eventually FA), and I'm iffy on this source's reliability. Brill's Content was only around for a few years, so it never had time to build up a reputation (or notability), but it does seem to be a legit magazine. I'm leaning toward now, but I'm interested to hear what you think? Thanks in advance, cheers! theleekycauldron (talkcontribs) (she/they) 08:39, 7 March 2022 (UTC)