User talk:Aza24/Archive 3

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March flowers

Today: Carmen for TFA (on my request), with Bizet's music "expressing the emotions and suffering of his characters" as Brian worded it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:35, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Was thrilled to see it rerun on the main page, good call! A lot of discussion has certainly arisen on the talk, interestingly enough. Aza24 (talk) 23:20, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, also for the cantata review, will get to it soon. I'm always amazed how much attention a TFA gets even the 3 days after appearing (Carmen 5k yesterday), just because the little mention below. As for Fanny - I try not to interfer with highly respected Tim, but she is no Fraulein Mendelssohn, but Mrs. Hensel. Perhaps you can watch over a potential review ;) - I'm testing the waters for a discussion that I hope will not happen: I gave Rinaldo an infobox - same author as Carmen (and as you know best Monteverdi, and many others). It was reverted. We can't ask Brian. My thinking is that the community has endorsed infoboxes in all recent discussions (latest Ian Fleming), so to not have one needs some strong dislike from the principal author, which I see for Smerus and Tim, but not at all for Brian, almost the opposite. He was ready for it in 2013, and wrote about the topic in the Signpost then. I think about a discussion on project opera, but would rather like to avoid it. Could you perhaps add to the talk with Nikkimaria? As Brian said in 2013: "low profile". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:24, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Well it is apparent that the literature on Fanny is increasingly adopting Hensel or Mendelssohn-Hensel, so a future page becomes increasingly more likely as time progresses (I'm in the Mendelssohn-Hensel camp). It seems that infoboxes are becoming rather inevitable in many ways, and the more people the discussion reaches, the more likely an infobox is included. I worry about Tim and Smerus in this regard; it may be improper for me—as a less experienced user—to speculate on their behalf, but I'm afraid the addition of infoboxes on their FAs will deter them from editing, and from Wikipedia as a whole. Though at the same time, it is difficult for me to properly sympathize with the predicament; I'm not convinced that an absence or inclusion of an infobox is important enough to readers that it warrants such discussion or strong opinions. I still "cringe" about how I acted on Poppea—though it was clear that from the beginning the conversation was less about actual content and more about the same users assuming the same positions with the same arguments. I've used and not used them (Cai Lun & Portrait of a Musician vs Gibbons, F. Andrieu etc.), and as such I don't really have an opinion on Rinaldo, so I don't know if I can help there. I think Brian was onto a great compromise with "identity" boxes, as I think the by-far most essential thing an infobox for a composer can provide is a link to their list of compositions, every other parameter is eh, which is why the limitations (and inclusion of comp list) on Beethoven's ibox seems passable. I think Rinaldo would benefit the most right now from an engaging painting as the lead image (like L'Arianna), especially since its subject matter is so widely reproduced in art. Aza24 (talk) 10:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
No time to read it all right now, but I hope I can win you for the Hensel camp, because she never carried what we call Doppelname. Also: I am the last person to suggest an infobox for a Smerus or Tim riley composer article, and would stay away when such a thing is discussed. Confessing though that I had thought we had reached a compromise acceptable for all for Chopin, which Brian applied, but FS reverted counting noses ... - Better fresh air right now ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:00, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Now that I read more, a bit more of a reply: thank you for the Beethoven compliment, because I created that - as part of the arbcase, of all places - and felt a bit of triumph when it was installed as the community consensus, by one of the arbs who had written the case - of all people. Arbitration is absurd, - that's what I learned, - and how I'd wish to be proven wrong. {{infobox opera}} was planned to be succinct from the start, and there has been no debate in years, - but now this revert, by not even a project member. You saw her arguing as the last one to defend the sidebars. She argues here "live and let live", but Brian is dead. Chopin by Brian, 2015 - Weekend now, I'll let it go until next week. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Rinaldo by Brian, 2016. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:11, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
Then I'm glad to see that the removal of the navbox was the result of plenty of discussion. Aza24 (talk) 01:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
Not sure which navbox you mean, because Brian left the navbox in place when he restored the sidebar. We talk about 2016, when there was a unifying sidebar. It was deleted. - Let me clarify that what I said about Smerus and Tim above also applies to Smeat75, so I won't touch must of Handels operas. Just the two featured articles should represent Wikipedia's best, and I know how Carmen and L'Orfeo do that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:36, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Quantz images

Different topic: images. I believe all pics should be right unless someone pictured looks to the right. Pics on the left (depending on screen size) cause problems such as displacing the text, and (worse) displacing the following header. In such cases, I move right even what should be left, but begin right for all others, - or make a gallery. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:17, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Neither is ideal for the current situation—I moved it left because on my (smaller) screen it looked rather awful with the infobox and two pictures squeezed below. Quantz is terribly underrated... Aza24 (talk) 10:21, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
I confess that the pic shows really nothing in small size, - we could just drop it, and describe it in prose. Perhaps there should be an article on it, showing it in large splendour. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:24, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
today (IWD): MMMM with a reference to Carmen again --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:37, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
Lovely! We must rerun more of Brian's articles every once and a while. Stravinsky's 50th death anniversary is 6 April; we could potentially run Brian's Rite of Spring—though I assume it's too late now? Aza24 (talk) 01:09, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
We'd have to ask Jim. I missed thinking of that date, sorry, and he said (today) that he had already enough reruns for the month, but that kind of anniversary would perhaps be enough of a motivation. Dreamsnake is scheduled for the day, and I don't see a strong date connection. My ideas for TFAs are here, BB stands for Brian, and Gianni Schicchi is my next suggestion. We just had Carmen, and Monteverdi last year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:38, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Gerda, you are wise in not treading on the CM project talk... :) Aza24 (talk) 22:17, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
DYK that I invented "2 comments per discussion", in 2013? Arbitration turned it against me, but by now I realize that it sets you free. In the current arbcase, I restricted myself to one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:38, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Very taoist of you, and admirable in general. I'm afraid I blabber to much to adopt such a practice, though in a few years I suspect I will have to, to still enjoy the site :) Aza24 (talk) 22:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
I like blabber ;) - and of course I don't mean friendly talk pages, but wherever consensus-forming is needed, it's awful when some dominate the discussion. I responded in the GAN, btw, but had no time yet to even read the lengthy comment at the bottom. What do you think of including a pic I took of a rehearsal of a performance? Today, It was BWV 14, GA already. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:16, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Very covidesque pictures, and great symmetry (Raphael would be proud)... I wish there was a church near me that performed Bach; the closest I got was a small group of musicians who prepare works by Bach each summer—I played (electric–real ones are hard to get your hands on) harpsichord and sang... now that was fun. Aza24 (talk) 23:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Pictures: Morgenstern once more. The discography article will be on DYK tomorrow. I put the BGA image as the lead image there - recordings will have been played from something printed. But for the cantata, the violins, representing the morning star, seem the proper lead image to me, - have been so for 6 years, - no valid reason to change. Did you see what RandomCanadian said about the continuo pic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:19, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree the violin pic is cleaner but am unsure that that would make me support it over the continuo. Regardless, I've (hopefully) expressed my somewhat neutrality on the issue, I can see a case for both, but the decision isn't so important that I would oppose the FAC. Aza24 (talk) 22:56, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Given the anniversary, I'll see if I can shoehorn Rite of Spring in, I have to replace on of the listed articesanyway, so I'll move Dreamsnake Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:44, 15 March 2021 (UTC) Forgot to ping Gerda Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:46, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

music today

Thank you for reviewing Bach's cantata composed for today, - perhaps listen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

... and the first performance was on a Palm Sunday, and Yoninah's obituary with the beginning of Passover --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:48, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm afraid I did not know Yoninah well, but their legacy seems incredible, and a worthy obituary as well. Aza24 (talk) 04:16, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Merchandise Giveaway Nomination – Successful

A Wikimeida t-shirt!
A Wikimeida t-shirt!

Hey Aza24,

You have been successfully nominated to receive a free t-shirt from the Wikimedia Foundation through our Merchandise Giveaway program. Congratulations and thank you for your hard work! Please email us at and we will send you full details on how to accept your free shirt. Thanks!

On behalf of the Merchandise Giveaway program,

-- janbery (talk) 17:05, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks, I've just now sent an email. Aza24 (talk) 22:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § Redesigning the featured, good, and article assessment icons. Pbrks (talk) 21:10, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Source review needed for 2012 Summer Olympics medal table

Hi again,

Is it possible that you could do a source review for the 2012 Summer Olympics medal table regarding its featured list candidacy? I want to put the finishing touches and/or have a final proofread.

--Birdienest81 (talk) 00:19, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes! I will try to get to it soon. Aza24 (talk) 06:10, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

ahhh ..

Now I understand the appreciation for artwork. :-) — Ched (talk) 07:29, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Indeed :) Aza24 (talk) 06:10, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Teletubbies and the Rite

Thank you again for that. It's so great! Cheers DBaK (talk) 09:14, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

No problem DBaK :) — the only thing better is the Fantasia animation of it, which I can only hope you've seen! Aza24 (talk) 06:10, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes, absolutely, thank you. I think that for a while I may have believed that Stokowski invented it. In fact, invented all music. Hmmm. DBaK (talk) 17:57, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
He did invent the boring seating arrangement of violins facing cellos that absolutely ruins the 4th movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony!! [1] Aza24 (talk) 18:11, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
The Article Rescue Barnstar
Excellent job on Gilbert Reaney! Kansas Bear (talk) 22:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! Cheers - Aza24 (talk) 22:37, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Happy to review this one if needed ... at the moment it doesn't look like it's needed, but ping me if things change. - Dank (push to talk) 12:35, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Dank—it does seem to be progressing nicely, so no worries! Aza24 (talk) 03:21, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on this list! Hope to see more quality sculpture lists like this on Wikipedia. Happy editing! ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:43, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks Another Believer, it was quite a bit more work than I expected, but fun to do over a long period of time. I'm not sure if I'm going to do another, though if I did, it would probably be someone of a similar reputation—perhaps Mozart, Leonardo or Shakespeare. Maybe I should spend the next 10 years doing one for Jesus or the Buddha? :) Aza24 (talk) 01:57, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Source review needed for 2012 Summer Olympics medal table

Hi again,

Is it possible that you could do a source review for the 2012 Summer Olympics medal table regarding its featured list candidacy? I want to put the finishing touches and/or have a final proofread. And I have been waiting almost two weeks since I've last requested for this same list.

--Birdienest81 (talk) 07:59, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Indeed, a glaring failure on my part, apologies. I've done so now. Aza24 (talk) 22:34, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Carillon GAN Help

Hi Aza24, I was wondering if you could help me through the WP:GAN process for the article Carillon. I've been working on it for the past few months, and I'm finally ready for help from peers. Gerda Arendt mentioned that you would be a great reviewer. Thrakkx (talk) 19:32, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Thrakkx, I would be happy to help. It looks ready for a GAN, so Ii you want to nominate it, I'll go ahead and take it up. Eventually (after the GAN) you'll probably want to take it to WP:PR, or have someone else look at it before FAC—which I'm assuming is your goal, based on your message on Gerda's talk page. Best - Aza24 (talk) 22:34, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Nominated! Thrakkx (talk) 01:57, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Statuary of Ludwig van Beethoven has been nominated for renaming

Category:Statuary of Ludwig van Beethoven has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:21, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

March 2021 GAN Backlog drive

The Invisible Barnstar
Thank you for completing 2 reviews in the March 2021 backlog drive. Your work helped us reduce the backlog by over 52%. Best, Eddie891 Talk Work 13:12, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Eddie, not exactly the amount I was aiming for eh... :) Aza24 (talk) 01:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

RE: 2012 Summer Olympics medal table FLC

Hi there,

I made the necessary correction to the 2012 Summer Olympics medal table for featured list promotion. Thank you.

--Birdienest81 (talk) 23:03, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Congrats on the FLC! Aza24 (talk) 01:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

April corner

wild garlic

Thank you for letting the Holländer fly! Yesterday's Main page was beautiful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:37, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Happy to help, I guess we'll see what happens...!
Looks good so far! - On this day in 1742, He was despised was performed for the first time, and when I wrote it in 2012, I didn't only think of Jesus. Andreas Scholl sang that for us, - you are invited to a Baroque stroll. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:26, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks!—I've just now finished the links. It's nice to see the Messiah article on the front page, it's always been an impressive one, especially considering the amount of sub-articles it spawned. Aza24 (talk) 00:18, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! - Today: an article about music significant in my life, Bach's motet Jesu, mein Freude, with a long way from the start in 2006 to the Main page today ;) /and I understand well that you didn't want to get involved with a GA review) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
I appreciate your understanding. I'm seeing this message while in the middle of listening to Bach's St Matthew—so I will have to put 227 in the queue! Maybe you'll like this (if you don't already know it): Schoenberg has a fascinating orchestration of 552 ([2]) Aza24 (talk) 01:57, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, yes! - You can put 227 in the queue for a peer review ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for Der fliegende Holländer! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:56, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

May 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | May 2021, Volume 7, Issue 5, Numbers 184, 188, 197, 198

Online events:

See also:

Other ways to participate:

Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Rosiestep (talk) 21:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Precious anniversary

One year!

On Earth Day, singing Psalm 115 ;) - more songs for the day on my talk. Yesterday, I discovered Pisendel, - no end to finds in music! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:23, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

What do you think about Joseph (opera)? - Yes, there were infobox wars, see for example Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, 2012, resulting in a valuable editor leaving - for a book, - I'll never understand. Quite amusing: I was against the infobox, then. The introduction of infoboxes for operas, however, was no war, just a slow process. The arbs didn't see that, - what can we do? ... without repeating something that looks like a fight every time. I could ping the former participants of the last discussion (but think it should better be forgotten), or run an RfC, but what a waste of time we could put into articles. - I miss GFHandel, who left over the Bach discussion, in 2013. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:36, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Congrats to the Beethoven sculptures list FL! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:57, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Sorry, I somehow missed your comment above—I've never heard of Pisendel, but he seems to have been mighty important, found a cool authograph score of his that I might upload in a second. This may disappoint you, but I'd rather not get involved with Joseph. I will say that with the seemingly standard use of infoboxes for opera articles now, it just appears that the article is missing one, rather than not having one on purpose. If you really want to, you could hold an RFC, which would almost certainly pass, considering the general wiki-wide opinion on infoboxes. Aza24 (talk) 01:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
More memories on the Main page today, Psalm 115 thinking of Yoninah, Christa Ludwig and Milva, - voices that made the Earth a better place. Sad that the psalm hook didn't appear on Earth Day as planned, but better pictured and late than going unnoticed ;) - Voce made a good comment for the opera, so I hope for a solution that doesn't cost the time of many volunteers. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
An insightful comment indeed. By the way—thank you for recommending me for the Carillon review, I'm reading it right now and have found the subject fascinating! Aza24 (talk) 03:24, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
Today: Charmes recorded ;) one hook, 3 women --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:17, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Anthony Payne

On 3 May 2021, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Anthony Payne, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. qedk (t c) 21:56, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

DYK for John Thomas Douglass

On 4 May 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article John Thomas Douglass, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that John Thomas Douglass's Virginia's Ball, which premiered in 1868, is generally regarded as the first opera written by a black composer? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/John Thomas Douglass. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, John Thomas Douglass), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:02, 4 May 2021 (UTC)


I have noticed you have reverted the infobox on the article Frédéric Chopin. Biographical articles must have infoboxes to demonstrate information and to classify them. This is a must, for me.

- Doctorine Dark Doctorine Dark (talk) 12:20, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Wikipedia does not operate on what "is a must" for you. Infoboxes can be contenious on composer biographies and there was no consensus to add one for the Chopin article, which is a WP:Featured article, meaning it has been through a throughout community vetting process. If I hadn't reverted you, someone else doubtlessly would have. See MOS:INFOBOXUSE. Aza24 (talk) 21:27, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
As said in a thread above, in this particular case, there was consensus (after FA) which was overturned (and it still hurts - me at least). Yes, someone else would have done it. How about let someone else do it next time which will doubtlessly come? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:13, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Indeed, I'll stay out of it if it happens again... :) Aza24 (talk) 15:18, 5 May 2021 (UTC)


Hey Aza. Thanks for your useful and thoughtful comments on human. I have had another go at editing the article and would welcome any more feedback you might have. Still got a few things I want to do; maybe expand war to "Violence and captivity" (or "conflict" or something better named), expand history and reduce evolution per Dunkleosteus and do some more work on the lead. Not looking for perfect here, just a decent overview article. Sorry for the slow responses to your first comments, I think I might have slightly underestimated the difficulty of working on this one. Aircorn (talk) 08:23, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your note Aircorn. No worries on any delay in responding, the article is definitely intimidating, but I think you're certainly on the right track for GA—an endeavor which is admirable in itself. An expansion of the war section sounds like a good idea; I'll try and comb through and standardize the formatting of some sources a bit, if it can be of any help. Aza24 (talk) 21:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

A tune for no reason

Dunno what you'd think of this: Mark Hollis Ceoil (talk) 07:28, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

So soothing! In a nostalgic but sentimental kind of way. The muted trumpet was a nice (and unexpected) touch. I know not what to offer you in return, except what I'm listening too right now... Aza24 (talk) 08:19, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
For years I thought it was a muted harmonica! I *love* the Grimaud piece; its obvs about the, sigh, notes he doesn't play. See also. I'm guessing you are a fair bit younger than me, so wait for nostalgic being a big deal! The years catch up on us all. Ceoil (talk) 08:39, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) – sorry to annoyingly pop up again ... I wanted to thank Ceoil for the lovely Hollis link. I didn't know his work, and enjoyed it greatly. As a Certified Trumpet Owner™ I can officially confirm that yes it is a muted, probably harmon-muted, trumpet at ~03:35 on there for about a minute. It's very very nice - I wonder if the personnel is listed somewhere as I would love to know who played. They are better than me, therefore I hate them. Tsk.
The Grimaud thing is lovely but every time there should have been a nice little trumpet solo, someone started playing some old piano! Sheesh. However it was saved from complete brassless disaster by some excellent horn playing so that's OK. ... but, seriously, wonderful performance, fantastic players all round. Best to all DBaK (talk) 07:49, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
No apology necessary, if there's anything universally excepted, it's that you can't shut trumpet players up. Kidding of course, well, only partially :) You know who doesn't give you any pauses of false hope for trumpet solos? Horowitz—nearly 2 and half minutes shorter on the same piece! Almost like he's... err... Russian... okay yep I'm done. Aza24 (talk) 15:18, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
ps, DBaK...its Henry Lowther on the Hollis song. Ceoil (talk) 18:57, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
pps Aza, its far from soothing, to me is about regret, being head in hands late at night looking into a dimming fire and going, universe is big, I am small, I regret x,y,z.....fffuuuccc. Its presented as bittersweet (romantic beauty in nihilism), which is where you might get be getting nostalgia from. Hollis has a significant body of work, and was never considered a laughing boy. Ceoil (talk) 00:23, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Indeed—your take is all too appropriate Aza24 (talk) 02:53, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Another tune, same band, which is for Gerda also as I see above that she watches here. I would be about as militant atheist as they come, and this is about personal rather than spiritual redemption, but my god does it get close to the medieval ideal of religious ecstasy.[3] Ceoil (talk) 16:43, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
Claus Sluter: This why Christian iconography
Yes, watching, just with little time (Christa Ludwig died, Leontyne Price's article still suffers from a lack of references, and - seen today - Anja Silja's had not even links to the operas ...), and yes, there's something divine about music beyond credds and denominations. - I came, Aza, to ask what you think about the sentence - on the Main page right now, and seen only now - "William Tell is a French-language opera"? (I think it's a contradiction in terms). Seen here when coming: why would you revert an infobox that the Blessed Brian installed? (There was consensus then, only afterwards, someone counted noses instead of arguments, and reverted.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
Twas reverted for the sole reason that if I hadn't someone else would have—the Chopin page has been under serious scrutiny lately (for other reasons). I'd be surprised if an RM passed at William Tell, it doesn't have the same backing reasons as Der fliegende Holländer Aza24 (talk) 21:27, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
Replied to revert below, and understand no Guillaume ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Honestly, I always forget that Guillaume is French-text—same with Oberon being English - Aza24 (talk) 15:18, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I always use the word "nostalgia" with a bit of unfamiliarity... your sentiment reminds me of Sam Harris, (if you don't know him) he's militant atheist as well, but obsessed with promoting and achieving secular spirituality. Religions have monopolies on a lot of things, but they can't take that from us :) BTW do you think you'll take part in the core contest this year? I'm considering taking a crack at Classical music or the History of music—both in fairly awful shape—but not certain.... Aza24 (talk) 00:49, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of John Thomas Douglass

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article John Thomas Douglass you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Amitchell125 -- Amitchell125 (talk) 14:00, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

The first pages of the The Pilgrim: A Grand Overture
Hello Aza24, sorry but I couldn't help but get the music out there, please feel free to add it the article. I will probably finish the job within a few days. If you'd like a 'live version', I might be able to get one! Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 20:31, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Amitchell125, awesome, thank you! Though, I notice two things: the notes going into the b minor chord in measure 7 appear to be incorrect in the recording. Also, there seems to be a little bit a weird rhythm in the beginning; right now it sounds as if the 8th notes at measure 9 are the same length as the left-hand sixteenth notes earlier—not sure why though. A live recording would be great—if possible. I was going to record it myself, but I have other piano pieces I'm in the middle of learning that I dare not stray from (the Italian Concerto and a couple Mozart sonatas). Aza24 (talk) 20:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, corrections made. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:47, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of John Thomas Douglass

The article John Thomas Douglass you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:John Thomas Douglass for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Amitchell125 -- Amitchell125 (talk) 14:40, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Henri-Guillaume Hamal

I never imagined that anyone would follow the clues I posted at ANI (I saw no reason to advertise the article to illustrate a general point). I like the image of this church official improvising (possibly risqué) songs in dialect while accompanying himself on the cello.

I came across the Hamal clan when YouTube randomly offered me Henri-Guillaume's grandson Henri's Trumpet Concerto, which is rather fun. I'd love to know its date, and what instrument he was writing for (though I'd guess the natural trumpet). I don't think the presence of a continuo part is any guide; I have the impression that Liège was a provincial backwater. I'm stalled on his biography (currently in a sandbox); the sources aren't entirely clear as to whether or not he continued to compose after Saint Lambert's Cathedral, Liège was torn down in 1794-95, and I've been puzzling over it. He must have been writing for a virtuoso; and if that was in the early 1790s, he may have written one of the earliest Classical trumpet concertos (Michael Haydn was 1763 and Josef 1796). Narky Blert (talk) 11:37, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Don't you just hate it when some interfering ****hole sticks their oar in? Sorry. The concerto is absolutely gorgeous but I am having trouble seeing how it is a trumpet concerto at all. I feel it is certainly not on a natural instrument as it's playing a lot of unlikely notes. (I have not made an exhaustive study and would love to be wrong but that's my starting guess.) If it wasn't written for a nat, then what? Haydn was only just getting going with his mate Weidinger's keyed instrument in 1796 and this is, I am sure, beyond its capabilities. I'm also having trouble tracking down the music, which I'd love to see, or any reference to it. The recordings I am keeping seeing are mostly (all??) Maurice Andre, and he was a massive user of transcriptions. Is it not possible that this lovely work is actually a violin or oboe concerto or something? That seems to me to be a better fit for what I am hearing but I would be delighted to be proven wrong and to get educated a bit. Seriously. I only think I am right but being wrong would be lovely! Cheers DBaK (talk) 16:55, 9 April 2021 (UTC) Update: and now I am worried that all the above just sounds terrible arsey and showoffish and I would have been better to just STFU ... gah.
@DBaK: Not on IMSLP; and yes, André's recording sounds like it has a pile of accidentals. It's the only recording of anything by Henri I've found. I'm inclined to agree, and will place a small wager on oboe. Pace Michael Collins, transcription from strings to brass or wind is uncommon (double stopping is tricky). I've failed to find any printed scores, so even the attribution must be open to doubt.
BTW, have you ever heard Haydn's Clarinet Concerto? No? Well, you can find it on YouTube. And a double... Narky Blert (talk) 18:10, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Narky Blert & DBak (all oars welcome), I love the attention you've given to the least important member of that family (Henri-Guillaume Hamal) :) — it is tremendously fun to scrap the internet for niche sources on minor composers; I've been meaning to do this on Cataldo Amodei, who, late last year, received the weirdest page views spike I've ever seen.
As far as Henri Hamal, that is indeed a mighty fine concerto. It may well have been for trumpet; the seemingly unreal high notes and surplus of them for the supposably limited natural trumpet, that is, are somewhat well explained. Since the natural trumpet works on the overtone series, as the notes of the trumpets rise, the distance between them decrease, so more notes are available only in the highest register(s). I suspect soloist trumpeters at the time were used to this, as a required necessity, and were indeed virtuosos in that respect. As trumpets evolved, people specialized in high notes less—and the non-soloists never did in the first place—so these kinds of quick passages were found extremely difficult (the most famous example being Bach's Second Brandenburg concerto). Eventually this resulted in the need for the piccolo trumpet (aka the "crutch trumpet!"). Now in the days of Alison Balsom and Wynton Marsalis—where anything is playable on any instrument—I believe its standard for trumpet players to be expected to play the original parts on modern trumpets (besides HIP), without using the piccolo variant. Apologies if I'm repeating information either of you are aware of!
The exact date for the concerto is probably nonexistent; one could assume it was written during his time as the director of the cathedral (1769–1793). If Henri wasn't writing music for anyone specifically after 1793, I would be surprised if he did at all. Even the annoyingly prolific Telemann retired at some point; the time of people like Mozart writing until the absolute end wasn't commonplace then. The earliest trumpet concerto-composer I can think off the top of my head is Torelli (1658–1709), much earlier than Henri; Maurizio Cazzati (1616–1678) has the first known trumpet sonata, for perspective. Aza24 (talk) 18:13, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes and roger to all of the above. Andre in this recording is absolutely playing it on a picc, yes. My worry isn't the high notes - it's the low ones! I am sort-of sure that it's got stepwise scalework passages and, as Narky says, surprising accidentals, too low down for a nat. I can't prove it without more work and I don't have the golden ears to just hit it immediately but I am pretty sure that I heard that. I suppose I ought to either shut up or do that "more work", but it won't be very immediate, sorry. It's going to sound very very arsey indeed if I say "if it were a real tpt concerto then I suspect that I would probably have heard of it" ... hmmm ok no. But yes. Also it is not mentioned at all on the International Trumpet Guild website ... is that a measure??? Sorry, I hate myself sometimes. But it's my daughter's birthday jollities so please excuse me and accept my apologies for this weebly and very rushed semicoherent reply. Cheers DBaK (talk) 18:23, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Ah I see, I may have overdone it with my response. Might have been for cornet originally, which would explain a lot. Aza24 (talk) 18:27, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
It's also fun to post a footnote saying in effect - Grove is wrong. Even if it takes considerable research to write it.
I picked on H-G as the easiest of the three to write up first. Jean-Noël was clearly the most considerable of them; but I've set him to one side as the man who tried to make it in the Big City (Paris) and failed; which means that getting a fair balance into his biography is trickier. Narky Blert (talk) 18:38, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Grove is so eh sometimes, and all too often we blow them out of the water (I Holst Grove vs ours; F. Andrieu Grove vs ours). They don't even have articles on rather important figures like Sordello or Maxim Berezovsky. They also spelled "Nietzche" wrong three times—don't ask how I know that ;) Aza24 (talk) 18:50, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Hmmm, by "earliest Classical trumpet concertos" did you perhaps mean classical period? I assumed you meant Classical music as a whole, which is why I brought up Torelli, but if not then your observation is most astute. I seem to be on a roll with misinterpretation today—I'd better go play something no one can interpret (say Sorabji or Finnissy) to make myself feel better... Aza24 (talk) 19:40, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I'm back briefly ... I just wanted to say: no, not cornet. Long boring discussion available on request but life's too short, to be honest. The dates, style and everything are just wrong ... I am still guessing it's a repurposed oboe concerto or similar. I really don't think it was originally a brass concerto though, as I say, I would be delighted to be educated otherwise. But I have to add: I am intrigued by the comment about Grove is wrong ... to what does that allude? I may have missed the memo; I am also very cross because my local libraries have given up their online Grove sub, which is a bit of a drag for me, to put it very mildly. Ho hum. Cheers DBaK (talk) 22:38, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
The only way we will know for sure is if we could find access to this, which seems to contain a complete list of compositions on the composer in question. By the way—you still have access to grove through oxford music online at the Wikipedia library, which if you sign up for the "Library Bundle" gives free, instant access—perks of being a Wikipedia editor :) The grove comment was on note a in Henri-Guillaume Hamal. Aza24 (talk) 22:54, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Also note d. Narky Blert (talk) 06:17, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
@DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered and Narky Blert: sorry to pull you both back here, but I took another look around and it seems that—from all available evidence—the work is a repurposed oboe concerto (kudos to DBK!). I've found a less-than-reliable site that says "This is a transcription of an oboe concerto" in regards to the work in question; also re here it seems that two other works on Andre's album are repurposed oboe concertos, making just one more likely. It still blows my mind that the work is nowhere on RISM (neither oboe or trumpet), part of me thinks the work was misattributed in the album credits. Oh well, take some early Webern for the road. Aza24 (talk) 07:48, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Axa24, @DBaK: Ooh great work! That feels very plausible to me. High trumpeters were never too thick on the ground, and I had wondered what one was doing in Liège. Definitely worth an {{efn}} in my (currently stalled) draft bio of Henri.
I've a fancy for the later stuff meself; underneath that mathematical rigour, it can seethe with post-Romantic Viennese emotion. Gerard Hoffnung and John Amis weren't being entirely unserious at the 1958 Hoffnung Music Festival - "Punkt Contrapunkt" (Humphrey Searle aka Bruno Heinx Jaja). Radio 3 did a Webern Day some years ago, and several of the presenters could scarcely conceal their distaste. Narky Blert (talk) 09:21, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
I've never heard of that festival! I thought all we had was P. D. Q. Bach and Victor Borge... Aza24 (talk) 18:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Please don't apologize – it's nice to follow up. Yup re the concerto. André did a LOT of digging through other people's stuff for nice things to play on his picc. Purists would have kittens, of course, but I say it's all just music and whatthehell whatthehell. I've always loved his transcription performances while just putting the authenticity thing on a back burner in my mind. And the Hoffnung festival – yes, there are some wonderful stories from there. I never went to one but I think my in-laws may have done. There's a great Belshazzar/Owen Brannigan story from one, which I will try to find for you. Cheers DBaK (talk) 15:59, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Ah yes, the Walton performance – conducted by the composer and with Brannigan as the soloist – is here. Enjoy. DBaK (talk) 16:18, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Is that when Walton used a flyswatter rather than a baton?
One of the Hoffnung commissions has gained something of an independent life - Malcolm Arnold's A Grand Grand Overture, Op. 57. (That audience didn't seem to know what to make of it.) Not a bad performance, though the organ isn't loud enough for my taste, and I prefer the piece on period instruments - the vacuum cleaners and floor polisher should be stand-up models. Narky Blert (talk) 11:45, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
At least he didn't use a tooth pick. And oh my, that is an absolute gem of a piece—right up there with the typewriter concerto. For some reason, it reminds me of this (skip to ~34 seconds), which is apparently called for? Aza24 (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Leroy Anderson - "The Typewriter".
I can't find a report, but some years ago (1980s?), after the premiere of a particularly distressing piece, one of the bassists solemnly laid his instrument on the floor, and jumped up and down on it to relieve his feelings. The audience applauded, assuming it was part of the score.
Arnold wasn't exactly the 20th century Telemann, but his symphonies (he wrote the traditional nine) are worth the occasional listen. He was far too tonal to get programmed often during his lifetime. As a professional trumpeter, he knew how to give the brass section a workout.
For another piece with an unexpected intervention or two, Peter Maxwell Davies' An Orkney Wedding with Sunrise. There's a long tradition of this sort of thing, all the way back to at least Biber's Battalia, with its drunken musketeers singing "Lillibulero"; a more stately version of Ives. Narky Blert (talk) 01:06, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Gosh I love Biber, I've been meaning to get his article to GA but I have a feeling there is going to be quite a bit of literature to go through. I need to listen to more Arnold—his name is too unfamiliar to me—any specific symphonies I should be looking at? Aza24 (talk) 00:24, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Biber is definitely undervalued. (He certainly thought so; he put considerable effort into getting that "von".) I must try to promote him onto my YouTube recommended list.
I don't know the Arnold symphonies well enough to single any out. Having reminded myself of them, I'm working my way through the cycle. However, from the early Romantics on, starting with the first and last (and possibly those whose numbers are divisible by five) is often a sound introduction. Narky Blert (talk) 11:08, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of John Thomas Douglass

The article John Thomas Douglass you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:John Thomas Douglass for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Amitchell125 -- Amitchell125 (talk) 20:41, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Featured and good topic candidates

Hello, I have seen on the history of the candidates page that you are the one who decides what happens with the nominations. I would like to ask have you considered posting messages on users' talk pages informing them the noms have passed, assuring they are aware? --K. Peake 09:29, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake:, hmm this is a good wake up call in many ways. I've been meaning to talk to the other delegate and director about how I've basically done the last 5 promotions by myself; the fact that others seem to be noticing this is as good an incentive to do so as any. I like your idea—it reminds me of what some people at do at FAC (example). Any suggestions on layout? I could see using a similar format to the aforementioned FAC example. Aza24 (talk) 19:21, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Yeah something like that, just mention them being collections of good/featured articles instead of the "one of the best articles" part. Sorry for the late reply, it's my birthday today so I've not been active. --K. Peake 19:42, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh my, happy belated birthday! Aza24 (talk) 03:57, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Source review

Hey, I had seen that you have done source reviews on other lists recently. Would you be willing to do one for Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Timeline of the 2018 Pacific hurricane season/archive1? NoahTalk 03:23, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Hurricane Noah, thanks for reaching out, I'll be sure to give it a look either later today or tomorrow. Best - Aza24 (talk) 04:08, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. NoahTalk 19:50, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Reply to your recommendation

Hello, I saw that you recommended me to nominate the article Ming treasure voyages. Sorry for the late response, since I saw the message a bit late and decided to prepare for a GA nomination before responding back. You don't need to feel obliged to do a review, I'm in no real rush. I wanted to say that I appreciate your words. :) --Cold Season (talk) 01:23, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@Cold Season: I'm thrilled to see you've decided to do so. I certainly want to take up the nomination, but may have to find time later in the week. I had been working on Cai Lun and was looking at Zheng He for my next Chinese history project here—though now I'm considering Xuanzang instead—and found the Ming treasure voyages. And I must say, I was very surprised to find the article in such good shape. Aza24 (talk) 19:03, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Paper Mario good topic query

Wikipedia:Featured topics/Paper Mario.

Hey Aza! The lead article in this good topic, Paper Mario, was promoted to featured article status today. Is there a specific process to updating this, or do I just change the icon on the topic? Panini!🥪 12:08, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Panini—updating it yourself is fine in this case (I've just done so). If at some point the articles grow to the point that the topic is now classified as a featured one (i.e. 50% or more is featured), just let me or another delegate/director know and we can take care of the technical updating. Aza24 (talk) 15:19, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

June 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | June 2021, Volume 7, Issue 6, Numbers 184, 188, 196, 199, 200, 201

Online events:

Other ways to participate:

Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Rosiestep (talk) 18:48, 28 May 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Request for feedback on an article

Hi there, hope this is the appropriate place to post this. I'm a student working on the following article, String Quartet No. 10 (Shostakovich) and see that you have edited articles in this domain. Any feedback you could offer on mine would be much appreciated. Thanks so much.

Zawinul lava (talk) 00:44, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Zawinul lava: congratulations (and thank you) for your high-quality work on this article! I see you've nominated it to go under review to be a good article—this might have been a little preemptive, but you're definitely on the right track. Here's what I'm thinking:
  • The "Structure" section can probably be combined into the beginning of the "Music" section—see here for an example of what I mean
  • Generally, you're going to want to give specific page numbers in the books you're citing; perhaps even page ranges, if more convenient—otherwise true verifiability is minimal
  • I find myself wanting a lot more in the lead—there's quite a bit of interesting information in the lower sections that could be summed up here, particularly from Music and reception sections
  • Any picture that could be included? Along this lines, it would be very beneficial to offer the reader some images of the music, perhaps some of the main themes.
  • I do wonder if anything more could be said in the both the "Allegretto furioso" and "Performances and recordings" sections
  • You might consider moving the line from the "Influence" into the end of the reception one. I suspect there's not much else to write in an "Influence" section for this piece anyways.
That's my take, do let me know if I can be of further assistance. Aza24 (talk) 07:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


See my talk today, - it's rare that a person is pictured when a dream comes true, and that the picture is shown on the Main page on a meaningful day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Fascinating and first-class work! Aza24 (talk) 19:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Nice to meet you!

I wanted to thank you for the work you do on classical music articles, in general. (Sometimes I feel that there are just too few of us wikieditors out there for this massive topic.) Indeed, I was at first surprised that we'd never crossed paths before (at least not to my memory), but then I realized that your dedication to medieval and Renaissance music—and my singular focus on Nordic 20th century composers... oh, who am I kidding, I'm a Sibelian through-and-through—would mean that we operate in distinct subareas, albeit as kindred spirits.

Anyway, I thought I might call upon you for advice. As you can see here, I am working on an upgrade to Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles, a list-article that I created a few years ago but, in typical fashion, never completed to my precise liking. As a member of Wikiprojects Lists, I thought you might be able to give me some pointers... good job here... let's change this there... as, eventually, I'd like to have this list become GA (can lists even become GA?).

Also, one further point, I do have GA ambitions on the Madetoja bio. Do you think it's close? I remember having mainly left just one section (Music) incomplete, thinking that someone else could do a better job than I. But, that article was so much research and labor (of love), so it'd be a shame never to let ole Leevi have his circled green plus symbol. Thoughts? Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:19, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: very nice to meet you as well! I vaguely recall seeing you on my watchlist at Gerda's talk a few weeks ago. I do try to focus on early music, but there is so much to do in the realm of classical music as a whole that I repeatedly fine myself getting distracted by later eras! Your contributions to the quality of Sibelius's oeuvre is admirable.
Lists can't be GAs, but FLC is not nearly as rigorous as FAC, I assure you. I see some things that would doubtlessly arise at FLC:
  • The entries most likely need individual references
  • I find it fairly unlikely that some of the years for certain cycles are unknown, maybe search them up on world cat?
  • Nowadays it is de facto practice to not say "This article lists" or "This is a list of"—as its obvious from the title. I would recommend starting with something along the lines of "The Finnish Romantic composer Jean Sibelius (1865–1957) wrote seven symphonies, which many conductors and conductors have recorded complete cycles of."
  • At some point, you'll want to add something to the lead about which recordings are particularly acclaimed and which are the earliest. Do be sure to briefly bring up No. 8 and how its lost. You might even want to say that he wrote eight symphonies, the final of which was destroyed or something.
  • Hmm the runtimes are tricky. I actually really like them and think they're helpful to compare, but I'm not sure if people at FLC will agree. They seem hard to source as well
It would be terrific if you got the discography to FL; there aren't nearly enough classical music FLs. I'd be happy to chip in a source review if you end up at FLC.
Madetoja is indeed an impressive endeavor. I would say it is very close to GA standards. The only issue seems to be some paragraphs lacking sources, e.g. the ends of "A new Finnish symphonist", "Two final masterworks", "death", "personal life", "Idiom", "Notable works" and "symphonies"—which may seem like a lot, but that's only maybe less than 10 citations needed. I also notice quite a few external links in the article text, which I'm fairly certain are not allowed. If you're open to it, I would be happy to review it, were you to purse GA further. Best - Aza24 (talk) 00:21, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your warm greetings and sage advice. I have learned a ton reviewing the code for your FL on Monteverdi's opera. (Indeed, if you take a new peek at my sandbox, you'll notice a few of your tell-tale touches, I think... how about that multi-column row! I've never been able to figure it out, until now.) I should note, however, that when you first viewed the list, it was (and remains) incomplete... hence the missing years and such. (I don't put info in the table until I can verify it by looking at official CD or LP liner notes; they're all I trust.) Also, on the runtimes... haha, I'll got to the mat for them; indeed, desiring a comparative listing is the reason I undertook the article in the first place. I note that all runtimes in the table are official, as printed on CD or LP liner notes. For some recordings, the notes only provide runtimes for a symphony's constituent movements; in these cases, I added the movement runtimes to obtain a total duration. Hopefully, such careful sourcing will appease the doubters at FLC. Thanks... and do feel free to make other suggestions as they occur to you! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 16:23, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
Quick request for help. I'm trying to copy your plainrowheader color code for in progress cycles, but I cannot get the code to work. I just want the green, but instead am also getting bold and centering. Thoughts? (User:Silence of Järvenpää/sandbox#Table of notable incomplete cycles). Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 02:49, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Ah yes Silence of Järvenpää, it's those pesky (and tiny) exclamation points that do the bold & centering
| scope="row" style="background:#E3F6CE;" | vs ! scope="row" style="background:#E3F6CE;" |.
I would recommend adding an asterisk, dagger ({{dagger}}) or something so the color blind can see the distinction (WP:ACCESS)—though I suppose it could be inferred from the incomplete years, it's up to you. Aza24 (talk) 04:08, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi! Quick question. In the citation template, is there a way to make the ordering be: publisher, id, OCLC... rather than the default publisher, OCLC, id? I ask because it just seems odd to have the OCLC come between the two pieces of information that relate to the publisher. Here's an example:
*Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 6 & 7 / Finlandia (CD booklet). Pietari Inkinen & New Zealand Symphony Orchestra. Naxos. 2011. OCLC 752482990. 8.572705.{{cite AV media notes}}: CS1 maint: others in cite AV media (notes) (link)
The 8.572705 just feels orphaned to me. Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 10:16, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Hmmm there's no way ordering built into the actual template (I think), but I there may be a solution. Normally you could just use a parameter called "postscript" and Template:OCLC, but using templates in that parameter doesn't seem to be supported. So the best thing is probably to just use Template:OCLC and place it outside, but directly after the reference:
  • Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 6 & 7 / Finlandia (CD booklet). Pietari Inkinen & New Zealand Symphony Orchestra. Naxos. 2011. 8.572705.{{cite AV media notes}}: CS1 maint: others in cite AV media (notes) (link) OCLC 752482990.
That's my take, at least. Aza24 (talk) 20:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Great choice, and am sure anything you research and add will be very interesting. Its a fascinating topic I'm sure and looking forward to seeing where in medieval history you can describe the type of music they listened to in confidence. BTY, when you get to the [i demand] dedicated sections on 1990s Scandinavian Black metal and early 2000s's Minimal techno, I have a load of books. DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered is your man for covering the late 1986 Bridgton, trumpet lead Oi! scene :) Anyway, delight that you are thinking of taking this on. Ceoil (talk) 04:57, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm already regretting it...! Well not really—but it is troubling how undeveloped (academically) the idea of an entire history of music is compared to say the history of art or human history in general. You do bring up an interesting point though; when (if) I get to the 20th century... it's going to be extremely awkward and unnatural to try and sum up so many genres so succinctly. Maybe throwing all that away for 1990s Scandinavian Black metal and early 2000s's Minimal techno is the bolt hole I needed :) Aza24 (talk) 07:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Ach, for post elvis pop music, focus on the instrumentation/equipment (first drums bass and guitar, now synths, sequencers and auto-tuner), and very good boundless 21th c fragmentation into micro styles. Re the pitfalls of trying to doing much or over intellectualize pop music, see the cautionary history here. Ceoil (talk) 00:47, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Geez. Yeah, too many things are not as profound as some would have us believe. Technology seems like a good solution, but perhaps it's wishful thinking that I'll even get that far in the article. Though with this in mind, I've assumed I'll go chronologically, but maybe skipping around would be better. Aza24 (talk) 01:06, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
chronologically is obv better than geographically, which makes for tedious reading. My limited experiance with big articles is that its better to nip in at out, here and there, at random sections while establishing a source base, rather mapping it all out in excel and rebuilding from scratch. Ceoil (talk) 01:14, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Agreed. What I'm imagining is having bigger "Prehistoric" "Ancient" "Post-classical" (can't say "Medeival", because the term usually just means Western music from that time), then maybe something like "Early modern"/"Modern"/"Contemporary" (might end up being 20th and 21st century as well/instead). But it may be weird to include music of the Tang and Song dynasties in the same section as Byzantine and Western medieval music... Aza24 (talk) 01:20, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Good approach. I suspect that most will want to read about the evolution of music, rather than specific bits and pieces along the way. Also, most who would click on such a page already know the broad thrust of the various timelines, but will be baffled by the pre late-medieval. I understand that appreciation and a desire to create music is innate in all human societies, but why, what does it do, why has it always been there? The hell did it sound like before Gregorian chanting? Most of the readership will focus on "Prehistoric" & "Ancient", as you outlay. Ceoil (talk) 01:42, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
That is a very good point! I have a feeling that if I give this article all I've got, its prehistoric and ancient sections will be far better than the actual full articles on the respective subjects. Aza24 (talk) 20:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Source review query

Hi Aza24, hope you are well. A little while ago, you were kind enough to do a source review at my FLC for List of Billboard number-one country songs of 1955. I was wondering if you might have the time to do the same for List of Billboard number-one country songs of 2019? Not to worry if not, but if you did have a few minutes spare it would be very much appreciated :-) Thanks! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:11, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey Chris, happy to take a look—will do so in a few hours at the latest. Aza24 (talk) 20:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to do the review :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:22, 4 June 2021 (UTC)


Hi. Thanks for leaving comments and notifying issues in Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international cricket centuries at the Sher-e-Bangla National Cricket Stadium/archive1. I have fixed the issues of sourcing on the article. Please check if it is right now or not. And please give a Support if you find no other issues from your point of view. Thanks.  A.A Prinon  Leave a dialogue 06:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Have I done something wrong to offend you? Haven't got reply yet from you.  A.A Prinon  Leave a dialogue 08:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
@A.A Prinon: no certainly not, you have been most courteous. I've been merely distracted by other things, am looking now. Aza24 (talk) 22:27, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


Would a topic like this be okay or would Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/2018 Pacific hurricane season/archive1 have to count as a subtopic if it passes? I have seen people opposed to including any subtopics since all the Southern Hemisphere seasons can't be included since they are split between multiple years. I personally would rather not include subtopics here.NoahTalk 19:39, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Hmm—it would be a bit odd to make that a subtopic of your proposed major one, mainly because one of the points of subtopics is to have them largely consist of articles not in the bigger topic. What might be a better goal is to have a bunch of subtopics, (e.g. 2018 Pacific hurricane season, 2018 Atlantic hurricane season, 2018 North Indian Ocean cyclone season etc.) and then have the lead articles of these subtopics as a main Tropical cyclones in 2018 one—if that makes sense? Aza24 (talk) 01:01, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
The issue is none of the southern hemisphere seasons could be subtopics since they are split between two years as the seasons generally run from November to April or May. It would be weird imo to have just the northern hemisphere season articles and then include a bunch of southern hemisphere storms and misc. storms that form in odd locations outside the general basins. I think it may be better to just have 2018 Pacific hurricane season exist as its own independent topic and then have the 2018 tropical cyclones as another. NoahTalk 01:20, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
Ah I see, in that case it seems your initial thought is the best route. I do wonder if some will object to it, but I think when the situation is explained to these hypothetical objectors, they would agree as well. Aza24 (talk) 01:26, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
How long do topic noms generally last? Is it about a month like FAC and FLC? It may be the lack of an older noms list that throws me off. NoahTalk 17:24, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Usually 2–3 weeks. Yours certainly has consensus, I'll look to promoting it tonight or tomorrow (there's no bot to make promotion quick so I have to update the templates manually). Aza24 (talk) 23:31, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Maybe someone needs to make a bot for closing topic noms then. NoahTalk 22:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Definitely, there's one being worked on at the bot request page right now actually. Looking at yours now. Aza24 (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

New message from 25 Cents FC

Hello, Aza24. You have new messages at 25 Cents FC's talk page.
Message added 08:58, 10 June 2021 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I have responded. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 08:58, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, have responded there. Aza24 (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Request for FLC source review

Hi @Aza24: If possible, please do a source review for "Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of marches composed by John Philip Sousa/archive1", which is currently a FLC. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 02:32, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Kavyansh.Singh I am happy to do a SR but as just an FYI, your FLC is rather recent so I may get to it a little later. And regardless, I'm a Sousa fan myself so will try and leave a content review in addition to the SR. Best - Aza24 (talk) 07:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
@Aza24: Thanks!! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:28, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Another Norwich School artist at FAC

Hi Aza24, in case you're interested (as an avid fan of my articles), I thought I'd mention that John Thirtle is now a FAC. Please feel free to add any comments! Amitchell125 (talk) 13:22, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Hmm to clarify, I am only a fan of well written and interesting articles—but then, that would indeed include yours :) Happy to give it a look. Aza24 (talk) 00:02, 26 June 2021 (UTC)


HI! Just to nit-pick - the text is validated by a citation to Lunacharsky which is to be found in a translation published in 1965 (see here). So whilst the orginal Lunacharsky publication was in 1933 (in Russian) the citation is from a 1965 publication collecting various essays (in English translation). However, when I expanded the reference (originally inserted in a brief form by another editor), I mistakenly gave the date of the original essay as the date of the publication. I have now corrected this. Bсего доброго, --Smerus (talk) 10:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah! Thanks for this Smerus, I tried formatting with "orig-year"—maybe that's better? BTW if you ever plan to do a clean up with Wagner (like was done on Chopin) for refs and such, I'd be happy to lend a hand. Best - Aza24 (talk) 10:13, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Отлично! --Smerus (talk) 10:16, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
By the way, if you would like to start cleaning up the refs, that would be wonderful!.--Smerus (talk) 18:03, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Sure thing—will take a crack at it sometime later today or tomorrow. Happily listening to Die meistersinger at the moment...! Aza24 (talk) 22:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Thanks so much for this!--Smerus (talk) 20:42, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Shoot for the Stars FAC

This FAC is the second try of a user whose first was archived for lack of interest. Can I interest you, - remembering the good comments in my recent FAC? Different music from what we normally do, but I believe looking at other creative work can be good for us, + heartbreaking story. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:34, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, different music indeed but still the same realm of art. I'll take a look this weekend. Aza24 (talk) 23:36, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
That's great! Thank you for beginning the PR for my song of defiance, - I will have to deal with Friederike Mayröcker who died yesterday, + create an article to be linked from the Main page tomorrow, - no rush with that one ;) - don't be surprised about no response, and perhaps deal with the other first? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:21, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
Yeah I'll go through the FAC one first—sorry for the delay, I keep getting distracted. Hopefully tomorrow. Aza24 (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
some impressions of places, flowers and music for you, - should be chansons, perhaps --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
added: missing SlimVirgin, and RMF festival opening --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:04, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

GAN Backlog Drive - July 2021

Good article nominations | July 2021 Backlog Drive
July 2021 Backlog Drive:
  • This Thursday, July 1, a one-month backlog drive for good article nominations will begin.
  • Barnstars will be awarded based on the number, length, and age, of articles reviewed.
  • Interested in taking part? You can sign up here.
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You're receiving this message because you have conducted 10+ good article reviews or participated in the March backlog drive.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:31, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I may have given the wrong impression ... the nomination for this one is two months old and has 3 supports and no outstanding issues, but needs a source review, if you can spare the time. You did the one for List of plant genera named for people (A–C), and I made your requested changes in this one as well ... except that I removed the page ranges from the references section, per Sturmvogel's request (but I can put them back in if you want). If there's any work I can do to make this easier, let me know. I'm still working on getting a genus named for you :) - Dank (push to talk) 22:24, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes definitely, I'll have at it in a few hours at the latest. Indeed I wasn't sure as to whether you were persisting with the list (I saw your deleted talk page messages) but am glad to see that you are. Aza24 (talk) 20:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Aza, since List of plant genera named for people (K–P) is identical source-wise (except for a different volume for Quattrocchi), could I get a source review for this one too? I've kept all the lists in sync. - Dank (push to talk) 12:33, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Definitely, looking now. Aza24 (talk) 19:50, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Sibelius cycles discography

Hi, Aza! It's getting closer... I'd estimate I'm about 90% finished. Just a bit more text to add to the Precursors section, a few more sources to hunt down, and the hunt for some better images. Do you think it looks FLC-ish? Hope you've been well! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 03:57, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Oooo—looking very nice. I would still mention the 8th somewhere—maybe just in a note. You might want to sort some of the "?" values (especially the runtimes, I would think) by "zzzz" so they appear at the bottom when sorted. Another note would be that there may be a little ref overkill, particularly after "concert repertoire" and "as a programmatic choral symphony"—I would either bundle them or just keep 2–3 of the best ones of the bunch. Aza24 (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi, Aza! "Oooo" can go a few ways, interpretively... but, because I need a win today, I'm going to assume it means "Great job! Looking quite FLC-ish!" :) I will add the footnote about the Eighth, as well as do the zzzz sorting (however, I'll be damned if I don't get the ? marks converted to information!!!) I understand on the ref overkill thing. I was putting so many because they're the two most controversial claims in the document and I wanted to kill reviewers with kindness (which is what I consider sourcing to be)... haha. I've never heard of a ref bundle. Do you have a link? One final thing: I don't know people over at WikiMedia. Do you? If so, I'm quite in need of a photo assistant! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:29, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
Yes, you assume correctly :) — I totally get your rationale there, I've done the same before. The easiest way is to convert the sfn for the refs you're bundling to "harvnb" (the same formatting, just switch delete sfn and write harvnb) and then surrounding all of those refs with <ref> & </ref> (so like <ref>{{harvnb|Author|Year}}{{harvnb|Author|Year}}etc.</ref> and you should be good. Aza24 (talk) 05:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Aza! I went ahead on nominated Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles over at FLC. I do hope you'll have a moment to give it a read through. I do value your feedback. Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:27, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Certainly—thanks for letting me know! Aza24 (talk) 19:50, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Anthony Payne

Listening again today to the Elgar/Payne 3 – incomparably the greatest musical blessing of my middle years – I thought perhaps I ought to look in at the Payne article to see if it needed attention. I found at once that it doesn't, thanks to you. It's just what is wanted, and I learned a lot reading it. Bravo! Tim riley talk 22:27, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Tim riley, thank you! I too adore his completion. When he died just recently, I listened to the work again, which rekindled my interest and resulted in said article expansion. You might have noticed that I adopted some of your own trademarks, such as the "influences collage" in the Youth and education section. Once I get around to writing a proper music section I shall aim for GA; it would be nice to bring a contemporary composer to such a status. Aza24 (talk) 19:02, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Potential FLC, Inquiry on content and sourcing

Howdy Aza24! Hope all is well. I'm reaching out as you'd be the perfect resource re sourcing for FLC. I'm in the middle of potentially nominating for FLC the filmography of Regine Velasquez, a singer and actor from the Philippines. I've promoted her awards/nom and songs recorded to FLC couple years back (aiming to do this one next). Had a copy-edit done as well.

Having said that, the list is titled "filmography" as the lead fully discusses her film and television history. Albeit being known as a singer, I opted to include music videos and commercials in the latter portion of the article/list instead of creating a separate "videography" entry. Reason is, unlike the US, the Philippine music scene is more or less devoid of the MTV-era the promotes music videos or monitors music video chartings (e.g. MTV TRL, MTV VMAs recognizing music video creators and artists). On that note, I have a couple of asks:

  • 1. Would it make sense to just include music videos in this article? Instead of splitting to a videography list, as there is little to discuss that concerns the subject's music videos and I believe putting it in a list would perhaps suffice.
  • 2. I've struggled with finding reliable sources for music videos since majority of the ones Velasquez released (80s and 90s) never end up in official YouTube channels or mentioned in any articles available online. In the interim I've found this site (fan page) that documents screenshots of videos the subject released. While I think music videos fall under non-contentious information (I maybe wrong), I suspect that would be a challenge with FLC standards?

I think I've sourced the Film, Television and Theater sections pretty well and based on FLC sourcing standards (e.g. TV Guide, Rotten Tomatoes), but would like to have your opinion on the 2 items I raised before I move ahead with nominating. Apologies that this is a tad too long, appreciate any input you can share. Pseud 14 (talk) 20:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Pseud 14 thanks for reaching out—the term "filmography" in the strictest sense is limited to just movies. But in practice on Wikipedia, it usually includes a variety of media, and I see no reason why you couldn't include music videos and such. See Jennifer Aniston filmography or Regine Velasquez filmography for precedents. If you wanna be on the safe side you could rename it to "Regine Velasquez on screen and stage" (a practice which is relatively common). On the sourcing, generally sourcing requirements are significantly more lax than FAC—given the situation I could see those references being okay, especially if you give a decent rationale in the nomination statement. Aza24 (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for providing your input Aza24! Agreed and I am most inclined to move forward with the latter suggestion being the safest option by renaming it to "on screen and stage". Also, thanks for providing clarification on my sourcing inquiry, it really is helpful coming from your perspective. I'll definitely include a clear rationale for my nomination statement and may also refer to this inquiry/conversation. Highly appreciate your time in looking into it! Pseud 14 (talk) 20:31, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
The Music Barnstar
You're doing God's work there, pal. isento (talk) 11:46, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Many thanks Isento... it's a long haul for sure, but my motivation is fueled by my disappointment in the article's state! Aza24 (talk) 04:11, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

It's been a long time since I looked at this issue, so I don't know what I'm talking about (as usual). With citations as short as these, do you prefer 2 columns or 3 on, say, a standard 14" laptop? If 3, what coding do I use? - Dank (push to talk) 17:28, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Dank, you're talking about columns like for the actual "Citations" section, right? If so, hmmm... with that many citations I would say 3; usually I see people doing something around {{Reflist|30em}}. Aza24 (talk) 22:41, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
To get 3 columns on my 14-inch laptop at 100% zoom, it has to be 27em or less ... does 27 work for you? - Dank (push to talk) 22:59, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Yeah definitely, I've seen people do 25 as well if that works better? Aza24 (talk) 23:01, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Yes, 25 looks nice too, thanks. - Dank (push to talk) 23:08, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Deletion of my interview link

Aza24 - Why did you delete the link to my interview with Anthony Payne? This whole subject of my links has been discussed by the Editorial Board, and the consensus was to "thank (me) for the lovely interviews," and that I was deserving of an apology from the person(s) who wanted to delete them. I can send you a link to the entire discussion from March of 2018 if you like. In any event, a conversation that originally aired on Chicago radio is certainly "notable". I ask that you revert the link so that it is included on the page. Thank you very much. Douglasburton (talk) 17:09, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

See WP:ADV. Neither I, nor any Wikipedia editors answer to an "Editorial Board". If you are saying that you received consensus from the Wikipedia community to include them, do share me said conversation and I will happily comply. Aza24 (talk) 17:15, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, should have said "Administrators' Noticeboard". Here is the link... . There is a bit of back-and-forth, but the final decisions are near the bottom. BTW, the interviews have been quoted on several occasions by The New York Times, the London Times, OPERA magazine (published in London), Opera News (from the Met in New York), the Globe and Mail (Canada), etc., so they must be at least somewhat 'notable'. Thanks. Douglasburton (talk) 17:25, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, restored now. You should know that every few weeks someone will come along and spam links to their blog (or some equivalent) on 100+ articles—so myself and others usually have a low tolerance for that kind of stuff, since most of the time is inappropriate. My mistake in this case, apologies. Aza24 (talk) 17:52, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks so much. I certainly understand the spamming, and the need to clear it out. But occasionally I get caught in the net. *sigh* I appreciate the work you (and others) do. Be well. Douglasburton (talk) 17:56, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 19

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Barbad, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Kazakh and Kyrgyz.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:56, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Proposed Women in Green Editathon

Hello Aza24 -- With the goal of helping to progress the WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) women’s rights-themed GA nomination goal for 2021, I’m proposing that WiG hold a special editathon event in the fall (maybe October/November?). I can assist with logistics, but I need to know how much interest/support there might be from WiG participants first. Please let me know what you think in the talk page conversation! All the best, Alanna the Brave (talk) 01:45, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Promotion of Cai Lun

Congratulations, Aza24! The article you nominated, Cai Lun, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Gog the Mild (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:06, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Congrats from me as well, can't say it better! Music on my talk Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you both!! This promotion is particular is pretty close to my heart, so I'm glad to see it to the end...! Aza24 (talk) 18:53, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
Did you know that Vivaldi composed cello sonatas? I didn't until I took the pic. Close to my heart. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
+ more music, a new song about a feast - a dear family member remembered today when she would have been 122 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the Vivaldi, he doesn't get nearly enough appreciation on Wikipedia, I'm afraid. Aza24 (talk) 23:54, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the project composers update. I wonder if we ask members about their feelings about infoboxes, perhaps "most members" isn't true anymore for support of the stance the project took back in 2010 ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:35, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
(For the record I only copied what was there before for that section) Hmmm, I don't know that it really matters, since the main (and more neutral) MOS:INFOBOXUSE is more authoritative on the matter—I can definitely look into some more neutral phrasing for that section though. Aza24 (talk) 22:47, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Discontent Content Issue 6

TFL notification

Hi, Aza24. I'm just posting to let you know that List of operas by Carl Maria von Weber – a list that you have been heavily involved with – has been chosen to appear on the Main Page as Today's featured list for August 20. The TFL blurb can be seen here. If you have any thoughts on the selection, please post them on my talk page or at TFL talk. Regards, Giants2008 (Talk) 22:45, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I saw your revert and figured I would just clarify with you as opposed to opening a talk page discussion. I am probably being dense, but how did my edit change the meaning? The status quo is that the painting was made by "x or x with the help of y". I changed it to "x, possibly with help from y." How are those different? Cheers ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 11:52, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

El cid, el campeador, normally I wouldn't have reverted on something so trivial, since while your logic makes complete sense, but I'm not sure it will to the readers. What I mean is, if the painting is really only by Leonardo, that would be a huge deal, so presenting like "Leonardo da Vinci with possible workshop participation" makes it sound like being by Leonardo is the default, when in reality, there is no agreement over whether it was just Leonardo or Leonardo and his students. Am I making any sense here? Infoboxes are tricky because they often prevent any ability to include nuance. Aza24 (talk) 21:25, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
You are! That makes sense, and ultimately clarity is more important than streamlining. I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Cheers! ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 13:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

FAC you may be interested in

Hi Aza24, as you recently took part in the peer review for snooker, it is now at FAC - Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Snooker/archive2. Feel free to leave some comments if you would like. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 08:09, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the note... will try to do so. Aza24 (talk) 02:20, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Request for FAC source review

Hello. I hope you are having a great week so far. Apologies for this super random message and request. I was wondering if you could possibly provide a source review for my current FAC. It is a rather short article so hopefully, it will not take too much time, but I completely understand if you are too busy or would just prefer to not do it. It has been several months since my last FAC and while that is not a long period of time, it still feels a little weird to jump back into that for some reason. Anyway, I hope you are doing well! Aoba47 (talk) 04:10, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your message Aoba—I'm doing well thanks, hope you are as well. Always happy to look at one of yours—expect a review tomorrow. Aza24 (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Thank you! I am glad you are doing well. Aoba47 (talk) 18:17, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
@Aoba47: Sorry to intrude, but I have to let you know that, while I was posting on Aza's talk yesterday, I came across this entry and clicked to see your user page. I can't tell you how helpful you have been: First, the FL on Charmed novels taught me a handful of Wikitable details I hadn't yet learned (they've now been incorporated into the proto-FLC I'm playing in the sand with), especially the {{abbr}} and row numbering ! scope="row" |1. Second, I loved the layout and style of your user pages, and have begun copying them for my own! Happy editing! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:36, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
No need to apologies. Thank you for the kind words. I am glad that you enjoyed the Charmed novels list and my user page layouts. It took me a little bit to get the hang of WikiTables so I am glad if I could make it easier for other editors. I hope you are doing well and have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 21:48, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
A first class FL indeed. Those tables can really be a pain, I had so much trouble with Carlos Kleiber discography and I still haven't brought it to FLC yet. Aza24 (talk) 05:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
Damnit! I shouldn't have looked at the FLC review on that Carlos Kleiber list you made... talk about negative, snarky comments that take the fun out of editing and scare people off! And to think you told me FLC was easier than FAC (which, of course could still well be true, depending on how negative people get in FAC)! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 15:01, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
Oh gosh, I wish you hadn't. That almost never happens at FLC, I promise. The user in question had a habit of needlessly badgering and hounding me—he's been banned by the community since. Aza24 (talk) 21:17, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for adding to this topic. I was wondering if you could provide a source review for my current FAC. I completely understand if you do not have the time or interest, but I wanted to reach out. I hope you are staying safe and doing well! Aoba47 (talk) 04:30, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm yes, I'll try to take a look later today. Aza24 (talk) 17:12, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Thank you, and it is okay if you would prefer to not do a source review. I would not want to pressure you into anything. Aoba47 (talk) 01:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Aoba47, apologies on failing to follow through! I'm not sure I recall what happened, but my guess is I became busy and forgot. Do reach out in the future if I can be of help. Aza24 (talk) 02:20, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
  • No worries. Thank you for the response and I hope you are having a great week so far. Aoba47 (talk) 02:21, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

2021 Core Contest

Hello. Congratulations on winning third place in the 2021 Core Contest. Could you contact me at to sort out your prize? Karla Marte(WMUK) (talk) 07:40, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, just sent an email. Aza24 (talk) 01:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

93rd Academy Awards Source Review

Hi there,

Could you kindly do a source review for 93rd Academy Awards for featured list promotion? I would appreciate the proofreading and feedback. Thanks.

--Birdienest81 (talk) 09:03, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Done! Aza24 (talk) 06:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Source review query

Hi @Aza24: United States presidential elections in Arkansas, an article recently expanded by me is a FLC. I just wanted to confirm that "Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections" is used as citation, but it may be a self-published source. Will that be an issue for reliability. It is also used in some FA's. It is not the only source in the list, as I have cited various other books with it. Should I use David Leip's Atlas as a Citation or not? Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 08:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

@Kavyansh.Singh: considering the website has a Wikipedia page (which seems to have good attestations) and is just sourcing statistical information—I see no issue, cheers! Aza24 (talk) 23:54, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
@Aza24: Thanks for the clarification. Please do the source review whenever you are free. No issues if too busy. Thanks! Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 06:55, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
@Aza24 – I understand that there is a backlog for source reviews, but just wanted to let you know that the source review is the only major thing left before this nomination's promotion. Would appreciate your help! I too want to help with source reviews at FLC's, but first wanted someone experienced to check my review. My only source review till date is here. Thanks! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:07, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your patience Kavyansh.Singh, indeed there are a lot of SRs backed up! It seems I have become the de facto source reviewer, so it would certainly be nice to have others chip in there. Your source review looks great in general; I like to split mine up by topic, but your approach is certainly effective as well. I would say that keep an eye out for inconsistency in dates (e.g. ref 10 of United States congressional delegations from Hawaii) and try to spot check two or three for verification just to double check everything is looking as it should. For NYT refs I like to offer people the "|url-access=limited" as well. Aza24 (talk) 06:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
@Aza24 – Thanks for your suggestion; I would try doing some more source reviews keeping those in mind. Also, I have responded to your SR at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/United States presidential elections in Arkansas/archive1. Thanks! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 06:52, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Anthony Payne

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Anthony Payne you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Tim riley -- Tim riley (talk) 11:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Request for FLC source review

Hello Aza24, hope your week is going well. Thank you for help on my FLC inquiry and apologies for the random request. I was wondering if you would have time and availability to spare to do a source review for my FLC nomination. Hopefully it will not take too much of your time, but would understand if you are busy these days. Thanks! Pseud 14 (talk) 16:42, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your note Pseud! I meant to get to yours yesterday when I did a bunch at once but I must have either forgotten or overlooked it. Happy to look at it later today. Aza24 (talk) 18:17, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your response and much appreciate it! Pseud 14 (talk) 18:38, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Beethoven Piano Sonata op. 110

What ho, Aza24! If you have time and inclination you might like to look in at an FAC on this sonata, where I have just been adding my comments.

And while we're on reviews of classical music articles, I'll be glad to review your GAN of Anthony Payne if no-one else comes forward in the next few weeks. Prod me if there is too long a silence from everyone else. Tim riley talk 20:06, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Tim riley—how great to see the Op. 110 at FAC! Thanks for letting me know—in reading through I find the same issue as you with the recording section. Hmmm, I will dig around myself to see if there is a specific survey somewhere.
It would be wonderful if you reviewed Payne, I'll certainly let you know if no one takes it up in the coming weeks, but feel free to jump right in if you find extra time. I'm worried that I don't have much for his music section, but it seems there are less sources than I thought which explicitly analyze his music (almost all of which focus on specific work(s) rather than a general overview). Aza24 (talk) 06:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Fasten your seat belt: comments at Talk:Anthony Payne/GA1. It's looking good, but that hasn't stopped me quibbling extensively. Tim riley talk 11:23, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Wooo! Thanks, just got through about half and looking at the rest in half an hour or so. Aza24 (talk) 18:17, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Brahms Symphony No 1: two entirely irrelevant but personal things about this bit of your article on AP: first, Brahms 1 was the first music I ever heard, aged one day: my mother told me she laid back, having given birth to me, and listened to Brahms 1 on the BBC; rummaging in the archives I find that broadcast was a relay of a Prom conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent. Secondly if, as seems probable, Groves conducted the broadcast that was an epiphany for Payne, I claim him as my musical inspiration, too: he was the conductor of the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic in my youth, and I learned the symphonic repertoire at his concerts. Tim riley talk 19:05, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
How extremely touching!—it's fascinating that you have that in common with AP. My first was Mahler 6, which was certainly a startling way to be thrown into the world of classical music. Though I have my own Brahms 1 story; in 7th or 8th grade I managed to convince my English teacher to let me "score-read" during our allotted 15–20 minutes of reading time each day (and believe me, it took some convincing!). For a few days I brought in my score of Brahms' symphonies, but mainly stuck to the 4th as it was the only one I really knew. At some point I must have realized it kind of defeated the purpose of score reading if I repeatedly read a piece I was already familiar with, so I took a crack at the 1st. Keep in mind, I had only the score and no recording, so I carefully took apart the parts by humming them in my head, and it was an incredible experience to put the puzzle pieces together! Though I don't think I made it much past the first few pages, I ended up listening to a recording when I got home and was pleasantly surprised by how close the "interpretation" in my head had been. Aza24 (talk) 19:36, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
I am immensely impressed. I can read one line of music at a time, and on a good day can manage both hands in a piano score, but how a conductor looks at a full score and translates the dots into sound in his or her head is entirely beyond me. As a schoolboy I was allowed into a rehearsal of Mahler 6 under Groves, but I didn't take to Mahler symphonies and never have. Tim riley talk 19:49, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Never taken to Mahler symphonies!—I feel as if you are missing out, though admittedly I struggle with 1, 2, 4, 7 and 8. 9 and Das Lied may be my favorite things ever written... I suppose I can't interest you in the Abbado recordings of the former and King/Fischer-Dieskau recordings of the latter... Aza24 (talk) 20:36, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
To me, "Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen", especially when sung by Janet Baker, is the most moving song ever written, but I can't get on with the symphonies, which seem to me a mixture of bombast and tweeness. But to each his own, and I know they they are much loved by many discerning folk. Tim riley talk 21:06, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
To me, "Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen" is also the most moving song ever written. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:02, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
(watching:) how moving, both accounts, thank you for sharing. Born into more humble conditions, I can't offer similar stories. Perhaps you can help with erudition? I boldly nominated Mary Shelley for TFA later this month, in grateful memory of its author, Wadewitz. However, there are concerns about a few unsourced bits concerning Shelley's later life with her son, on the article talk. I was so far unable to find references, which might be found in biographies of her and him. Help? (... or we would have to remove the facts.) - My first symphony live was Tchaikovsky IV, conducted from memory. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:52, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
That's rather surprising, as I was under the impression that the Shelley article was one of our best ones. However, if there really is a chance of OR being sprinkled into cited passages, that may be a mammoth task to uncover... On the unsourced statements, are there more issues than the two CN tags? Aza24 (talk) 20:36, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
My main concern are the two CN tags. These topics are a bit outside my library ;) - I didn't know about Mahler until church music conductor Erhard Egidi shared his enthusiasm for him. Andris Nelsons conducted V in his farewell concert in Herford, - quite Adagietto. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:43, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Noted—I will try to take a look, but no promises... Nelsons has always bugged me, see [4]. Aza24 (talk) 20:47, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Anthony Payne

The article Anthony Payne you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Anthony Payne for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Tim riley -- Tim riley (talk) 09:02, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

56th Academy Awards source review

Hi there,

Could you do a source review for 56th Academy Awards regarding its featured list promotion. I would appreciate the feedback.

--Birdienest81 (talk) 08:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Done! Aza24 (talk) 21:21, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Paint It Black nominated for FAC

Hi Aza24! Paint It Black has now been nominated at FAC. If you have the time, would you be willing to take a look at it? --TheSandDoctor Talk 00:46, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your message! I've just left a comment. Aza24 (talk) 07:31, 28 August 2021 (UTC)


Can you take care of the Wikipedia:Featured topic removal candidates/Wipeout/archive1 review? I dont want to touch it due to nominating it. GamerPro64 19:24, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes! Thanks for pointing out—the FT/GT bot is still in the works, if you haven't seen. Aza24 (talk) 02:20, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
Apologies, haven't forgotten about this... Aza24 (talk) 06:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Hello. GamerPro64 01:46, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Cai Lun scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 4 August 2021. Please check that the article needs no amendments. A coordinator will draft a blurb - based on your draft if the TFA came via TFA requests, or from an existing blurb on the FAC talk page if one has been posted. Feel free to comment on this. We suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors from the day before this appears on Main Page. Thanks and congratulations on your work. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:34, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

August songs

Excellent news! My 12th today, - I decorated, also for a birthday. Songs invite to more music, places, food and flowers. Heard a nice all-Vivaldi concert yesterday, for example, and two concertos a red link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:36, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Vivaldi concerto? Ugh—so jealous :( — Aza24 (talk) 02:20, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you today for the unusual article about an unusual person, Cai Lun, introduced charmingly: "He invented paper, but you've never heard of him? Well don't worry, most people outside of East Asia haven't—and he didn't "invent" paper exactly, but his improvements were so pivotal that he is credited with the invention, at least in its modern form. Not only this, but he certainly had an interesting (albeit mostly unknown) life, full of palace intrigue. This article has been a project of mine for a little over a year, and I've dug deep to find sufficient sourcing."! - I changed the link to the Vivaldi concert with 6 concertos (4 of them well known), with links to the videos. 531 my favourite, - a red link destined to turn blue once the "recent deaths" are improved, - an expansion yesterday, a translation today, will ignore a mayor of a medium-sized town (Vivaldi's work being more important) and a billionaire (others can and probably will do that, but they didn't for a father of jazz on Poland now on the Main page, nor a Polish bass and theater manager). - Enjoy your TFA day, hopefully with less discussion than yesterday's. - I mentioned you yesterday on the page of another Vivaldi-lover, - it's in German because he wants to learn the language, nutshell: he'd like to improve Vivaldi and asked for sources, and said you plan the same. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:53, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks—I do adore both Sol Gabetta and Vivaldi! Aza24 (talk) 21:25, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
So do I! - I just made the so far craziest GA nomination (which so far was one for a blocked user, Great Dismal Swamp maroons, see also WP:Great Dismal Swamp): In Freundschaft, written by Jerome Kohl who died a year ago. He never cared about such things. Tell me what's missing ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:35, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
Interesting! I know In Freundschaft only for its reputation for having purposefully unspecified instrumentation (a decision—or rather "lack of decision :)—that Monteverdi engaged in as well, though for different reasons). I will be sure to take a look. Aza24 (talk) 23:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
It seems almost the opposite, planned for clarinet for a clarinetist's birthday, played - adapted - twice by 2 flutists at the party - and then carefully adapted again and again for individual instruments, and within instruments individual players such as his son, performance history including Stockhausen's birthday, Boulez's birthday and a teddy bear costume in Wigmore Hall. I am torn between leaving the article as Jerome left it, just adding refs, and making changes. A reception section should probably come, if only to justify "most popular Stockhausn" in the composer's bio. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:45, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Today: 2 interesting DYK (I think), sadly 2 who died (on top of 2 from Poland yesterday), and a concert in which Daniel Barenboim just played piano, - and afterwards he and the orchestra received last year's prize (pictured). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:44, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
Interesting for sure! My memory seems to have served me ill with the Stockhausen piece, but its ease in adaptability certainly speaks to the type of piece it is. I'm left thinking of how Debussy's piano works are so easily orchestrated by others (because Debussy always wrote them having had much orchestral experience) but works by Chopin—the piano only composer—are notoriously difficult to arrange for orchestra. Aza24 (talk) 21:06, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
never mind, I understand memory lapses best - planning to expand Mass in C major (Beethoven), in case of interest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:28, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
Congrats to AP now GA! Today: 3 DYK, including that the author dedicated a summer story to a license plate number ;) - Five rows of images added, sunflowers and butterflies continued, four rows of 15 August alone, - a rich Monteverdi day, - enjoy! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:57, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Today: Giedrė Šlekytė --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:42, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
There's a discussion on COI I was called to, which lead me to Classical, and there to a subpage on discussions, and - for my taste - too many details about the 2013 infoboxes arbcase which was not really related to music. I dropped a few bits on that subpage, but think its all sad history which doesn't even need to be remembered. The last discussion about a composition I know was in 2018 (Psalm 149), and about a composer in May 2019 (Georg Katzer). I think we can safely archive most of that, and not link from Classical. - Eight years ago today, I heard a concert in a miserable mood (because it looked as if my friend Andy Mabbett would be banned), Elgar's Cello Concerto played by Sol Gabetta was just perfect. Andy wasn't banned after all. I heard Andreas Scholl again yesterday, with a Bach cantata. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:17, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music/Major discussions and arbitration case page, I assumed? Depressing indeed, though I am secretly thankful I wasn't there for those times :) You must look forward!—to help, I highly recommend this piece by Gottschalk, a little known, but incredible composer. Gerda, do you have any FA plans in the near future? Just curious Aza24 (talk) 07:31, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, Aza, - sorry I missed your response. I came to thank you for the List of operas by Weber, having missed its appearance, and noticed it only now when adding the TFA appearance of Mary Shelley which I nominated in grateful memory of its author. Please help watching, as she can't. If you want to help, review In Freundschaft, or improve Teresa Żylis-Gara towards GA (and perhaps further, some detailed wishes on my talk). I'd like to take BWV 82 (pictured on my talk with Andreas Scholl, a local hero who sang for us) to GA and possibly FA. But instead of turning to any of those, I just learned that Siegfried Matthus died, and while I never heard music by him he's enough of a German opera composer of stature that I feel obliged to look after his article, hopefully for ITN, - haven't even checked, it's that fresh. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:37, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Congrats on getting Cai Lun featured! —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:11, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
Many thanks, couldn't have been done without your amazing copy editing! Aza24 (talk) 21:25, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Edward Gibbons

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Edward Gibbons you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 11:42, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Edward Gibbons

The article Edward Gibbons you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Edward Gibbons for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 19:01, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Renaissance composer table

As I mentioned at Talk:List_of_Renaissance_composers I've created a table version of the Renaissance composer list at User:Harp/rene. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or concerns about the table. I put the comments into the Works column as I don't know how to handle them. The page starts with the part of the table, where you can show how do you think to handle them. And there is the whole table I've created below the first one. If you are interested, I can share the CSV table and the Python script I used to create the table.

I have a column in the CSV file, where I have added a birth date I guessed from the year of death or flourish date where I had no exact birth date. When the birth date was missing I just subtracted ~ 20 from the flourish date or 40 from the year of death. I think I should add these values to the column to order by that. I haven't done it yet, but I plan to do it.

You can answer here. I'm not a regular Wikipedia editor, so if I don't answer before next Weekend it is totally normal.

-- Harp (talk) 08:46, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

I forgot to publish the ordered by ~ birthday version. Now it's there. Ordering is not perfect yet. -- Harp (talk) 06:32, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Harp, this is loads better already, thank you! I would say the image column is unneeded; my guess is that less than 20 composers will have surviving images, so it would be a lot of blank space. I suspect that for those who do have images, we could simply put them next to the table like at the Academy Award for Best Actor list. Aza24 (talk) 21:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Sorry for my late response, by the way. Though I would also add that a lot of the "Burgundian" composers would be better described as French, and indeed some (Du Fay, Busnois and Grenon, for instance) are already said to be such in their respective articles. Aza24 (talk) 21:51, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

I revised Burgundians and removed the Image column. You can diff the last two revisions.

I'm not sure, partly because English is not my native language. They write in the article that Arnold de Lantins is Netherlandish and le Rouge is Netherlands, that doesn't mean they're Dutch? Does that mean that we know that they lived there but don't know their nationality?

J. Legrant "France or Burgundian" is good at the nationality column? Cousin: French or Flemish, that's good? --- Harp (talk) 07:45, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

For de Latins and le Rouge I would say Franco-Flemish, as it doesn't seem like its certain so better to stick with the broad term. For J. Legrant and Cousin I would do French. Aza24 (talk) 03:24, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

It can be ordered by family name now :-) --- Harp (talk) 13:34, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Tumbling Dice PR

Hi Aza24, I was wondering if you may be able to take a look at Wikipedia:Peer review/Tumbling Dice/archive4 and offer any feedback? I'd love to take "Tumbling Dice" to FA soon. If not, no worries. Thank you for your time. --TheSandDoctor Talk 02:40, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I will try! But I'm getting busier recently so no promises... Aza24 (talk) 04:14, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

information on painting.

Hello, I made an account to share what I may have found on that painting.

To begin, it says the year in the bottom right, 2012 so I don't believe it is old. the paint appears fresh

The bottom left might say Δώ Χειρός Δχ;λικής Τοεπιου, however the third letter in the third word is a mystery. I am also not sure as to what the word in the middle is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorkyvon (talkcontribs) 08:09, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Gorkyvon, many thanks. This is sure to be helpful! Aza24 (talk) 22:21, 8 September 2021 (UTC)