User talk:Antandrus

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Greetings, welcome to my talk page. Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I like to keep threads all in one place, so if you left a message here I will respond to it here; if I left you a message on your talk page I likely am watching it and will respond there.

If you are editing anonymously (using just an IP address) and you cannot edit this page -- for sometimes I have it semi-protected -- you can leave a message for me HERE. I have that page watchlisted and will see edits as quickly as though they were on my regular talk page.

Demons watch over this page. Shiny ones. Wat Phra Kaew, Bangkok, Thailand, 2014. (Garuda, the mount of Lord Vishnu)
Haec dies quam fecit Dominus. Exultemus et laetemur in ea.

Talk page archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41


Hi there. Welcome to Wikipedia. Thanks for your note at Wikipedia:New user log.

I'm sure there are plenty of things you can contribute to here. You might want to check out List of classical music composers, List of musical topics, and Wikipedia:Requested articles/music. The last one, especially, has a lot of suggestions for articles that don't exist yet, but that someone would like to see.

Here are some links you might find useful:

You should also feel free to drop me a question on my talk page. I'll answer if I'm here.

Happy editing, Isomorphic 18:23, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

June music[edit]

June songs
Sweetbriar rose, Rauenthal.jpg

Ukrainian peace music is "on" today, with the conductor! - Pentecost (on last Sunday and Monday in Germany) brought a rich harvest of great music in two church services (one with me singing in choir) and two concerts with my brother in the orchestra, - four pictures I took besides the symphonic one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ahhh. Thank you for that. Antandrus (talk) 22:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for improving articles in June! My song collection is especially rich, look, and the hall where I first heard DFD, Pierre Boulez and Murray Perahia. Do you find the baby deer in the meadow (last row)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:21, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
today: a song about getting through the night, after plenty of music over the weekend --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:14, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ukrainian Melody[edit]

July songs
Lady's mantle, Eberbach.jpg

today: violin solo and you can listen Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:55, 5 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

yesterday I attended a unique concert - the 18th Thomaskantor after Bach conducting - and with some good luck caught him happy afterwards! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:21, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you Gerda - most excellent!
Some day there will be no more war - some day - but alas, Mars shines brightly in the sky, maybe a little too much so. Antandrus (talk) 20:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Who told you that the encore was an arrangement of Bach's Air with text Dona nobis pacem? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Listening to Dialogues of the Carmelites while prepping dinner for family. Have no idea why I'm listening to music about resistance to tyranny, nope, no idea, no idea, must be a coincidence. Antandrus (talk) 21:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I saw that last year, remember? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yup. :) Antandrus (talk) 22:03, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

... and another outstanding concert on 14 July: Voces8, pictured - I have a FAC open, in case of interest --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 15 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I love Voces8, and have been listening to them a lot recently. They approach... dare I say... perfection. Especially in the English rep. Antandrus (talk) 21:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
agree! - today: birthday music for a friend, after hiking in the Swiss Alps and a funeral with flowers on a bench and a Rilke poem --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:46, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, good to see you around! :) I look forward to a little mountain hiking myself, if there is a gap in the fires. But the coast is nice, and not so smoky. Busy being a composer these days. Antandrus (talk) 22:00, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – July 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2022).

Technical news

  • user_global_editcount is a new variable that can be used in abuse filters to avoid affecting globally active users. (T130439)



  • The New Pages Patrol queue has around 10,000 articles to be reviewed. As all administrators have the patrol right, please consider helping out. The queue is here. For further information on the state of the project, see the latest NPP newsletter.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:28, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

de Vitry image[edit]

Do you know where File:Philippe de Vitry.jpg is from? I vaguely recall either a conversation between you and I, or one I saw between yourself and someone else on a talk page somewhere discussing it. But alas, I cannot locate or recall the content of said conversation(s). Aza24 (talk) 18:43, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Aza -- wow. I do not remember that image at all and my skepticism light came on with a big flash-flash. It appears it was uploaded by someone now blocked for abusing multiple accounts -- and the face sure does not seem to be rendered in an early 14th-century style. Googling a bit I don't find either a reliable source for it, or any suggestion it is someone else either. Seems most copies on the internet came from us. I don't trust it. Myke, are you still editing? do you recognize this image? Antandrus (talk) 18:56, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, you know, I think the thread I was remembering was that on Ockeghem's page about his image (see here). I have never come across the de Vitry image in any of the literature about him (though I have not exhaustively searched). In terms of likelihood, I can't say it would be impossible that an image of de Vitry exists in the first place, given the eminent status he had during his time. However, I would agree it doesn't seem obviously 14th-century—Johnbod may have some thoughts on that. A posthumous portrait is always possible as well, I suppose. I had exchanged some emails with Michael a few months ago about another WP question, so might email again if they don't see the ping. Going to ping Sparafucil and Srnec as well to see if they have any ideas. Aza24 (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would say it looks 15th or even early 16th century. Whoever it is, it looks like a donor portrait or supporter in an altarpiece, but done well after his death, and he was not a saint. Johnbod (talk) 21:41, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you -- rather confirms my hunch (just felt like a 15th-century rendering to me, but I'm not an expert). I'm pretty sure if there were authentic portraits of de Vitry we'd know. Antandrus (talk) 23:10, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Definitely not a real image, and not from the time. I have however downloaded a copy for future talks about frauds in the early Ars Nova.  :-) -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 08:40, 19 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Excuse me for interrupting, but that (poor scan, reflected, with a peculiar background) seems to bear more than a coincidental resemblance to this, at the Museo Nacional de Escultura, Valladolid, attributed to the Master of the Pacully collection [es]. Catalogue link. Hope that helps. Theramin (talk) 00:24, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No need to excuse yourself - that's it! Thank you! Absolutely. So it's supposedly Isidore of Seville? I wouldn't be a bit surprised, given the history of the account that uploaded it. We need to get rid of this thing. Antandrus (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well spotted, or did you do a CIA-style image comparison search? 1480-ish anyway. Johnbod (talk) 02:21, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No kidding. I'm impressed!
Now I feel like I've turned over a log and found something awful. There are other images by this same uploader that show, um, similarities, and there may be a lot of them. I'm not an admin on Commons. Uggggh. This particular de Vitry image has grown legs and spread all over the internet. Reminds me of how that "Giovanni Gabrieli" image (the one with the lute) similarly spread, and it's still out there.
Are any of my talk page stalkers admins on Commons? Can we speedy hoaxes there? Antandrus (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, there are of course a ton of other wikis using it. I suppose to the medieval mind, there's no real problem as the idea of portraits needing to be likenesses was slow to arrive, though it had by the time this was done. It probably looks more like de Vitry than Isidore, if only we knew. In the Romanesque period, I forget which English king was having a row with a bishop, who wisely fled to Rome to complain to the pope. The king sent agents to intercept him, equipped with a wanted poster for identification, which sadly has not survived. They didn't find him. Johnbod (talk) 02:58, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And of course, one cannot forget the whole Anne of Cleves debacle. Besides de Vitry and Gabrieli, I know of at least two other instances of similar issues with early music composers: that random man who randomly was decided by someone (?) to be 'Pachelbel', with absolutely no evidence ([1]), and that really annoying image from the Cantigas which was used once by for album art in a Pérotin CD, and now has the internet brainwashed into thinking its actually him! (The file name even says "Pérotin"... should probably be changed...) – Aza24 (talk) 03:13, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You are welcome. Without giving away too many state secrets, it was nothing special - I just searched for similar images in a well-known internet search engine, and looked for some using different titles. A saint or a bishop or both seemed about right. Theramin (talk) 00:38, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You've got mail![edit]

Hello, Antandrus. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 06:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

--Ferien (talk) 06:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Josquin, for the 30th time[edit]

Sorry I'm back here :) I'm pondering how to deal with sources calling Josquin both French and Franco-Flemish, and unsatisfied with just calling him the former since sources do not overwhelming call him French, but (afaics) slightly more often than not call him such. What would you think of "Josquin des Prez [...] was a composer of High Renaissance music, variously described as 'French' or 'Franco-Flemish'." ? Aza24 (talk) 21:31, 18 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No worries - bring up the magnificent composer any time! - Yes, that is one particularly fraught area and I could write paragraphs and paragraphs on it. We love to impose (even without realizing it) modern ideas of "nationality", or worse "ethnicity" on these historical figures. I heartily approve of your "variously described as" line. It's true. I mean - it's true. He is variously described that way, in the literature, in encyclopedias, in edit wars. (How many languages do you think he actually spoke? I'm guessing quite a few.) 'Franco-Flemish' may be a dated term, but it describes that cultural blending-pot rather nicely. And he had the French connection, so to speak. Antandrus (talk) 21:53, 18 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Now done, and fully sourced/explained by note 4 in the article. Glad you see eye to eye with me here—might have to do something similar with Du Fay at some point, but would need to dig into sources more for that! Aza24 (talk) 01:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

High activity on your talk page[edit]

Hello, Antandrus. Although we have not communicated with each other before, your user pages have been on my watch list since the day I started editing the English Wikipedia. It is a pleasure to watch them - especially this page. And, you know, the interaction on your talk page has been very high in a few weeks, and I have requested permanent protection twice for your talk page. Now I just see your reasons and appreciate them.

On the other hand, let's see Amanda's talk page. She has created a page that can only be edited by IPs. Maybe a page like that will be fine for you.

Live long and prosper, --Victor Trevor (talk) 19:52, 26 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks Victor - you know, I was just thinking about that exact thing, i.e. setting up an IP page. There's really only one person who causes the problem (and this has gone on, with occasional breaks, since February 2006 - it only stops when he goes to jail - literally). It's hard to write about because he reads my page, and I don't want to give him ideas. He loves to vandalize my archives, probably thinking no one watches them, so I've protected most. Creating an IP-only talk page would shift the problem to there. Worthwhile? I'm on the fence. I like the idea of a honeypot (computing). Ideally I just want him to bother me, since it's just water off my back, rather than someone else that might be driven away from the project entirely by the creepiness of an insane obsessive. Antandrus (talk) 21:11, 26 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – August 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2022).


Administrator changes

readded Valereee
removed Anthony Appleyard (deceased) • CapitalistroadsterSamsara

Guideline and policy news

  • An RfC has been closed with consensus to add javascript that will show edit notices for editors editing via a mobile device. This only works for users using a mobile browser, so iOS app editors will still not be able to see edit notices.
  • An RfC has been closed with the consensus that train stations are not inherently notable.

Technical news

  • The Wikimania 2022 Hackathon will take place virtually from 11 August to 14 August.
  • Administrators will now see links on user pages for "Change block" and "Unblock user" instead of just "Block user" if the user is already blocked. (T308570)


  • The arbitration case request Geschichte has been automatically closed after a 3 month suspension of the case.


  • You can vote for candidates in the 2022 Board of Trustees elections from 16 August to 30 August. Two community elected seats are up for election.
  • Wikimania 2022 is taking place virtually from 11 August to 14 August. The schedule for wikimania is listed here. There are also a number of in-person events associated with Wikimania around the world.
  • Tech tip: When revision-deleting on desktop, hold ⇧ Shift between clicking two checkboxes to select every box in that range.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:44, 5 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

August songs[edit]

August songs
Sunflowers above Rhine, Lorch.jpg

pics and thoughts on 13 August -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:41, 13 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

and on 15 August: "my" concert of the year (so far) is on the Main page, but not pictured, and I don't understand why --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:47, 15 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

the last week brought more outstanding concerts and bike tours, - how is your summer? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:20, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Gerda! - it's pretty good. Composition projects, lots of writing (elsewhere, obviously), family time. :) Antandrus (talk) 19:23, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
thank you, sounds good - another great tour on Debussy's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:37, 22 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
+ the church where I heard VOCES8 and more discoveries --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wow, Gerda, did you just hear the Bruckner 7th? I'm jealous. Love that piece. It soars, it soars. That opening, that in its very scale sets up the granitic mountain range that is the whole - it's sublime. I have synesthesia and hear E major as radiant gold, and this piece is the type specimen, so to speak. Antandrus (talk) 22:39, 27 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
you say that so well, - now I'm a bit jealous ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:12, 28 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
thank you for what you told Aza24! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:44, 30 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Changing user name question[edit]

My brother-in-law registered a kind of jokey user name and now wants to change it to something more professional. His jokey user name is actually a stumbling block to his being a more active editor. How can he change it officially? Thanx in advance. Amuseclio (talk) 13:41, 15 August 2022 (UTC)AmuseclioReply[reply]

Hi Amuseclio -- it's easy. All you have to do is go here: Global user account rename request. See WP:RENAME for the whole policy. I think it gets more complicated if he has a lot of edits but that's not what it sounds like. Antandrus (talk) 14:04, 15 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – September 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2022).

Guideline and policy news

  • A discussion is open to define a process by which Vector 2022 can be made the default for all users.
  • An RfC is open to gain consensus on whether Fox News is reliable for science and politics.

Technical news


  • An arbitration case regarding Conduct in deletion-related editing has been closed. The Arbitration Committee passed a remedy as part of the final decision to create a request for comment (RfC) on how to handle mass nominations at Articles for Deletion (AfD).
  • The arbitration case request Jonathunder has been automatically closed after a 6 month suspension of the case.


  • The new pages patrol (NPP) team has prepared an appeal to the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) for assistance with addressing Page Curation bugs and requested features. You are encouraged to read the open letter before it is sent, and if you support it, consider signing it. It is not a discussion, just a signature will suffice.
  • Voting for candidates for the Wikimedia Board of Trustees is open until 6 September.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:11, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

September music[edit]

September songs
Roses, Hallgarten.jpg

1 September: I remember the Vespro della Beata Vergine, 2 September: the last of the Rheingau Musik Festival concerts, and today we can read The Story of Mr Sommer, and follow Ruth Lapide. - Do you have a bit of time to look into viola repertoire? -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 4 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Today: Opera in Ukraine, not by me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:06, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

a rainbow pic today, and a deer yesterday (but hard to see) - Jubilate Deo --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:34, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

the rose pic was taken on 11 Sep 2021, and this year was full of music that day, Tag des offenen Denkmals, not only singing in church and rehearsals for Verdi's Requiem, but two concerts at special places pictured, one a synagogue (pictured on its wall). Today three DYK: a piece we'll perform on Sunday, a violinist we heard in June playing the Berg Concerto, and a Youth Orchestra shaped by a conductor who recently died. Almost too much of a good thing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:09, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

today, we sang old music for two choirs at church, pictured, scroll to the image of the organ of the month of the Diocese of Limburg (my perspective), and if you have time, watch the video about it --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:52, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

... and today I wrote an article about music premiered today, Like as the hart. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

and yesterday I wrote Who shall separate us? and today we enjoy Spannungen (tensions, sparks ...) - chamber music --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:51, 21 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

travel and strings sound, last in a brand-new concert hall --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:37, 26 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

last images, - music to explore, a Ukrainian baritone first, and the new Casals Forum for chamber music is just wonderful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:01, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please vote in the 2022 Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Board of Trustees election[edit]

Hello hello. I hope this message finds you well.

The Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Board of Trustees election ends soon, please vote. At least one of the candidates is worthy of support. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Josquin (for the 1000th time)[edit]

Hey! My work on the Josquin article is mostly finished; reviewers at the article's FAR are now taking a look through for final clean up and such. Sandy has asked if another editor familiar with the subject matter could go through it to double check for any content inconsistencies or errors. If at all possible, any thoughts you might have on these matters would be most appreciated on the page's FAR. Aza24 (talk) 00:28, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Aza - certainly. I'll try to give it a readthrough in the next couple days - mainly for content but may make some prose tweaks. It's ten years since I've read any of the Josquin scholarship, so - as I don't have a strong research library five minutes away like I did when I wrote the original article, if I need to access something behind a paywall I may just ask you. Antandrus (talk) 02:15, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Much obliged—and happy to provide any scholarship for reference, though I will not have my hands on the Josquin Companion again until next week. Aza24 (talk) 02:26, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(I should have just bought myself a copy of the damn thing back in the day...)
Are you not a fan of the Oxford comma, and do you mean for the article to be without it? No worries either way; I just like consistency. (Should I write my comments on the FAR page? - I will continue reading it soon.) Antandrus (talk) 02:41, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I started using the Oxford comma a lot more this year, but since I worked on Josquin throughout the year, I suspect there are inconsistencies on the page. Comments on the FAR page would be great, preferably the FAR talk page (you'll see Sandy has left comments there too). Aza24 (talk) 03:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – October 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The Articles for creation helper script now automatically recognises administrator accounts which means your name does not need to be listed at WP:AFCP to help out. If you wish to help out at AFC, enable AFCH by navigating to Preferences → Gadgets and checking the "Yet Another AfC Helper Script" box.



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:42, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

October music[edit]

October songs
Poplar, Rüdesheim.jpg

Today is Erntedank in Germany, thanksgiving, and we celebrated our village's 650th anniversary, and had the dress rehearsal for Verdi's Requiem with an interesting band of marimba, piano, horn, bass, timpani and drum, - concert tomorrow, our national holiday. Seeing a pic I took on the Main page was also a nice harvest. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:12, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

650! Where I live, something is old if a gray-haired person remembers it being built. But yet an entire culture existed here for ten thousand years, and left nothing but ghosts that talk to you in the wind, on an October night. Antandrus (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thomanerchor celebrated 800 years (in 2012)! - Excited that Ukrainian choir OREYA will visit our parish, giving a concert on 4 November. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:28, 9 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
new day, another pictured DYK (but not pictured by me this time): look at power work tensions (if you translate) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 13 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
today's DYK: two facts from the two concert of this years Rheingau Musik Festival I liked best, both a cappella singing, yes, Thomanerchor. If you follow the songs, you see a circus, where I performed singing, and in the end the whole tent joined for Dona nobis pacem. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:52, 19 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
who shall separate us --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 22 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
spa wellness: last day of BWV 56, and two great musicians who died --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:41, 26 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
leaving the month with reformation and a cat treat --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:44, 31 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – November 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2022).

Guideline and policy news



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:22, 1 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another IP for the Talk:Homo antecessor vandalism[edit]

Per Special:Contributions/ shouldn’t that IP be blocked too? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:07, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It looks like a VPN or group of open proxies (one IP was in Arizona, one in Taiwan, one in Greece) so it's highly unlikely the person would get the same IP again. I will block it though if it returns. Antandrus (talk) 01:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, OK. Thanks. Since I don’t think we’ve spoken before I should take the opportunity to say how much I like User:Antandrus/observations on Wikipedia behavior. I must have read it half a dozen times over the years; thanks for putting it together. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh thank you! - really appreciate that. I always like to hear when someone has noticed that thing, or it has done some good. Antandrus (talk) 01:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November vacation[edit]

November songs
Pfaffenhütchen, Ehrenbach.jpg

I was away for vacation in the U.S., pictured, after we had an Ukrainian choir visiting, my first subject celebrated 60, and we heard Bach's ultimate statement about life and death (3 concerts in 3 days) -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:58, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh wow Gerda, that's wonderful! I haven't been in New York City for a few years. Looks like a lovely time. I admit I laughed out loud at the Katz's deli picture (remembering a certain movie).
Busy composing music these days, and getting my piano technique back up where it belongs. Antandrus (talk) 18:53, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That sounds great! Happy Thanksgiving! Bach said it in music for peace --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:30, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Happy Thanksgiving as well, Gerda! - our big family gathering this year is at my house so I will be cooking much of the day. However this year I get to choose the music. :) May include Bach. Antandrus (talk) 14:50, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
good choice! the sinfonia of that cantata might be a good idea --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
American tradition guests preferred Lebanese, pictured --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:26, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Opera and Advent choral music on my talk --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:30, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Featured Article Save Award[edit]


On behalf of the FAR coordinators, thank you, Antandrus! Your work on Josquin des Prez has allowed the article to retain its featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. I hereby award you this Featured Article Save Award, or FASA. You may display this FA star upon your userpage. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 04:51, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message[edit]

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Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Administrators' newsletter – December 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2022).


CheckUser changes

removed TheresNoTime

Oversight changes

removed TheresNoTime

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • A new preference named "Enable limited width mode" has been added to the Vector 2022 skin. The preference is also shown as a toggle on every page if your monitor is 1600 pixels or wider. When disabled it removes the whitespace added by Vector 2022 on the left and right of the page content. Disabling this preference has the same effect as enabling the wide-vector-2022 gadget. (T319449)



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:43, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Scriabin article[edit]

Hello. I see that you've edited our page on Alexander Scriabin. In case you are interested,

I happened to be looking at that and I see lots of content cited to unpublished or self-published dissertations. Much of it is dubious in my opinion. The first one I found was in the "first period" section where there's analysis to claim that six and seven tone chords are extensions of the triad. I think this is highly misleading and does not reflect current approaches to theory and harmony, which focus more on the functions and tonal implications of such sounds and do not treat their structure in isolation. I hesitate to remove the content as unverified in RS, but I wonder what you think and what would be the best approach to improve this content? Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 18:42, 4 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi SPECIFICO -- yes, I've had that article on my watchlist seemingly forever but I don't remember actually reading it (or writing much of it). Looking quickly, it appears that Sabbagh book is self-published, and at best overused for the style section. It looks like the person who wrote that section hasn't edited since 2015, so -- the best approach (laborious, of course) is probably just to get better quality, current sources and rewrite it. For what it's worth, I wouldn't personally use much of a "triadic" approach if I were teaching Scriabin's music, especially the later stuff -- as you say, current approaches do not treat chordal structures in isolation. I rather doubt Scriabin was thinking that way, anyway; he was experimenting with nice chewy dissonances that felt good in his hands as he was improvising, to see where they led him, -- but that's just my OR. You might leave a note about a planned upgrade on the talk page. (I don't remember seeing any page "OWN"ers on Scriabin, if you know what I mean -- always a hurdle when you see an article needing an upgrade.) I'd be happy to read what you add. Antandrus (talk) 19:50, 4 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. I think there's even a quote in the article to the effect that he ~"preferred fourths to thirds"😄 It would be a big job, and I'm not current with whatever academic literature may deal with analysis. It would be rather arcane 100+ years later. I don't think the self-sourced stuff by several authors is worthless, so I am OK to leave it alone for now. SPECIFICO talk 20:03, 4 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

December music[edit]

December songs
Frost in December, Ehrenbach.jpg
happy new year

Today, we sang Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme twice, after a short trip to Paris with great opera and symphony, - enjoy! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:25, 4 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Today, I can offer a hymn for a Marian feast, and I learned that Yvonne Ciannella died, the soprano who impressed me in my first night at the opera. As she died in March, sadly no Main page reverence is possible, - at least she had a good DYK, at a time when opera singers were considered interesting. I'm proud today that Christiane Hörbiger made it to that corner, and happy that we celebrate the birthday of Jean Sibelius again. - I heard an excellent Christmas concert yesterday, by Tenebrae, and a short excerpt of them singing "Deo gracias" is also linked from my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:02, 8 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Today was a day rich in music, with two new pictures, and also rich in WP:QAI contributions on the Main page: the TFA, 2 DYK and 2 RD with members as principal editors. The church pictured there (not by me, nice snow dust and tall evergreen) comes with memories, detailed on my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Latest pics, with an opera discovery and some snow. Today my talk has a DYK that was planned for 22 November, among the recent deaths the author of Duck, Death and the Tulip, and now a choir pic of "our" concert last Sunday, likely to become next year's lead image. Enjoy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Today, pictured, the soprano of our choral concert of the year. More in the context: User talk:Gerda Arendt#DYK for Talia Or, in case of interest. - Enjoy the season! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:28, 26 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you Gerda, and happiest of Christmases to you and yours! Antandrus (talk) 14:44, 26 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Happy it was (singing pictured), and now happy new year to you and yours! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:28, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy Holidays, Antandrus[edit]

Carlo Saraceni - Saint Cecilia and the Angel - WGA20829.jpg

May you have very Happy Holidays ...

and a safe New Year filled with peace, joy, and beautiful music.

Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 09:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you Voceditenore, and happy holidays to you as well! - and I fully approve of that list of items for the new year. Antandrus (talk) 14:57, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy New Year![edit]

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year}} to user talk pages.
Lemonaka (talk) 08:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy New Year, Antandrus![edit]

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Moops T 03:49, 2 January 2023 (UTC) Reply[reply]

January songs
Winter jasmine, Walluf.jpg
happy new year

and also from me --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

today, I point at two singers I whose performance I enjoyed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:03, 6 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

today, less pointy: a composition from a remarkable 2022 concert, the sad record of four articles about people who recently died on the Main page at the same time, and singing for Epiphany --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:32, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Today's featured article is Osbert Parsley, not by me but Amitchell125 where I commented, including the beginning of my songs. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm on vacation, - click on songs! I tell my own stories now, instead of relying on DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:10, 14 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Today's topic Elisabeth Waterhouse. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:21, 21 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm back, most pics uploaded (but 1 1/2) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:30, 31 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What a lovely trip that must have been! That "trail to Puertito" - and the pictures of the coast, and lush vegetation - has an uncanny similarity to the coast where I live. I think a lot of the landscaping plants here came from those islands. (In some cases, the reverse!) Beautiful. Antandrus (talk) 17:14, 31 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, lovely - and now the rest of the pics - Melitta Muszely died, RIP - the other story is 10 years old OTD ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – January 2023[edit]

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  • Voting for the Sound Logo has closed and the winner is expected to be announced February to April 2023.
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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:08, 6 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – February 2023[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2023).

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:37, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

February songs[edit]

February songs
Winterling und Schneeglöckchen, Kesselbach.jpg
my daily stories

yesterday's cantata, 300 years later --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:03, 8 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

today's stories are about two pieces we sang at church, today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:59, 12 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I love Arvo Pärt. Hope he lives forever. He captures something of perfect and eternal peace in his music - and he deserves every bit of his immense fame. Antandrus (talk) 17:53, 12 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was blessed with meeting him during a concert intermission in Tallinn, telling him that we sing his music often, especially our youth choir. They did Da pacem in 2012, but this was the first time I got to sing it! - Today a book, Alte Liebe, for Valentine --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:42, 14 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... and today the regional festival - DYK of 13 years ago ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:22, 17 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My story on 24 February is about Artemy Vedel (TFA by Amitchell235), and I made a suggestion for more peace, - what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:44, 24 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
today: two women whose birthday we celebrate today, 99 and 90! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Page protection?[edit]

Hi @Antandrus -- wondering if you'd like to request some sort of protection on this page (autoconfirmed, logged in, etc.) -- it's been almost 2 years since the last IP/Unregistered account has added anything to the page that wasn't vandalism and more than that since something that was actually productive. I just see that >50% of my (admittedly, trimmed down) watchlist is Deletion Logs on this page. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 21:56, 16 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, I agree it's probably necessary and have protected it myself from time to time - this psychotic obsessive in Chicago and his manic-bipolar sidekick in Poland seem to visit me rather regularly. (See the very top of the page; I already set up a mechanism for IP editors to contact me if they wanted to.) I think I'll close the screen door now, as that usually does keep the blowflies out. Antandrus (talk) 23:34, 16 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can I assume?[edit]

Hi, can I assume that you're dealing with the necessary global IP blocks when you follow himself to enWikisource? Navigating SRG is beyond me at present. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:39, 17 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Beeswaxcandle - I usually don't try to block the IPs globally because they are all throwaway P2P proxies, and he seems to have thousands of them. (Well, if I had the ability to block globally myself I'd do it just to reduce the supply) - adding a request to SRG is cumbersome and of limited use. On enwiki I block them for six months, because over time (and hundreds of blocks, and strong edit filters) that slows him down. Antandrus (talk) 15:36, 17 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – March 2023[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2023).

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:18, 1 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

March stories[edit]

March songs
Crocus in forest, Ehrenbach.jpg
my story today

On IWD, I remember a 2016 DYK: Hana Blažíková, a Czech who sang German music in Japan. Girls and women sang how Bach arranged Pergolesi's Stabat Mater to a new text paraphrasing Psalm 51, last Sunday. - I loved improving Mary Bauermeister - on the Main page until yesterday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for a thank-you-click, - but nothing happened afterwards, not from the user. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:29, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ah yes, Gerda. That whole situation just makes me feel pain. I avoid those discussions as they quickly become so toxic. People have become so deeply entrenched that any change is unlikely in most personal positions.
What strikes me is that both sides of the argument are, in fact, right. But people talk past each other, and are as unlikely to acknowledge the potential rightness of the other side's argument as they are to transform into a unicorn and fly off in a sparkle of rainbows. Standing back a bit, what I see is this: IBs have become, for better or worse (and sometimes, in my opinion, distinctly worse) a de facto standard on Wikipedia, so readers expect them, and when they are not there, they complain. Consistency is a good thing, usually, and I too find it jarring when an article doesn't have an infobox, - even though I completely understand how IBs can be devoid of nuance, and can emphasize perfectly trivial details in an overly prominent way. - Standing back even farther - back up, back up, way back, for a big picture - the way we gather and process information in 2023 is very different from the way it was 50 or 100 years ago. Attention spans have changed, and people are now used to encountering data overviews in tabular format. Google anything and there it is - in an infobox! I don't know when this started to happen, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, but it mirrors a modern informational trend. (Does anyone study this? They should.) While 50 years ago readers would go to an encyclopedia and read prose, now most readers look for information quickly presented in a table or box, with an article alongside, especially younger readers. - Anyway I could write a dissertation on this. But I detest those infobox arguments that so quickly become hostile and mean. Most editors here are good people and better than that. Sometimes, on this issue, I feel like Arjuna on the field of battle in the Bhagavad Gita. I will not contribute to the nastiness. :) Antandrus (talk) 23:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for thoughtful pondering, but I'm afraid I was not clear with the question. I was shocked by the edit, and want to know what others think. Perhaps you have thoughts for that as well? I was determined to miss out the Mozart RfC - as I did for the last one, even apologizing that I wasn't willing. On the talk, I showed up:
  • 2017: "a bit of history"
  • 2018: "to stay away may be more productive"
  • 2022: "I stayed away for the last discussions for Mozart, as a complete waste of my limited time."
On this background: I don't get over the "invitation". I have no way to understand it as humourous (although I have the feeling that was an intention). - I fear I have to say something now, to not let it stand (and written by a user I highly respect, - we even wrote articles together). But what? A long essay about the history will not be heard, nor a plea for peace. (I asked the arb candidates if we still had infobox wars, and they didn't see them.) What do you think of a short version?
Support --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Antandrus. A little parable about boxes and such… Twenty-three years ago I and five of my colleagues at the university were commissioned by a well-known British publisher to write an elementary textbook on sociololinguistics. We were horrified that we would be required to have “Key Points” boxes in the upper right corner of each section. “No No”, we cried. “The lazy students won’t truly engage with our magnificent prose. Oversimplification. Blah Blah.” Well, the publishers said many studies show that this what students want and this is what we’re going to give them. So we did. The book was a big success and is now in its 5th edition. Voceditenore (talk) 17:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
today we remember the 150th birthday of Max Reger, who saw the horrors of a world war right when it began in 1914, while others were still in high patriotic moods --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:11, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, I have a soft spot for Max Reger. Played his clarinet quintet once (first violin). Did not realize that he wrote a piece (Die Toteninsel) based on Böcklin's famous painting; of course everyone knows the version by Rachmaninoff. Have to find a recording of that now - curious. Antandrus (talk) 21:15, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Reger's Böcklin in an organ version was featured in the first concert of Reger-Chor. - BWV 1 today, and new pics, more of them tomorrow --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:04, 25 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
sharing impressions from vacation on Madeira 20-30 March, pics now at 24 Mar from the peaks - the RfC with the non-neutral invitation to fight was closed, and went rather peacefully - what can we learn from it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

April songs[edit]

April songs
Sternhyazinthe im Schnee, Oberauroff.jpg
my story today

My story today is about the Alchymic Quartet, - I went away from DYK but it's the last one from last year. - The songs are about vacation, continued. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:33, 2 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I made an exception from my DYK abstinence for Good Friday, - see my story today. I sang, including chorales from Bach's greatest Passion. I recently listened to one by Homilius: a discovery! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:27, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ah, excellent! - coincidentally (or maybe not, given the calendar) I am right now, at this very second, listening to the St Matthew Passion (John Eliot Gardiner recording). :) Antandrus (talk) 16:46, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for listening. I was able to add a hiking day to the images (getting-wet-day). Will sing tonight and the Vierne mass tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:00, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I loved to see Marian Anderson and her story of protest against discrimination by singing on Easter Sunday 9 April 1939 on the Main page yesterday. Impressions of Easter here and music here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:59, 10 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My story today, Messiah (Handel), was my first dip into the FA ocean, thanks to great colleagues. - a few pics added, one day missing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:42, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I added, finally ;) - today's stories are about Johanna Geisler and Huub Oosterhuis, a singer and a songwriter. More here if you have time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:26, 16 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Today is the 80th birthday of John Eliot Gardiner. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:38, 20 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Today is the 11th anniversary of me noticing your broad perspective, - let's celebrate. Today's story is all about memory, yesterday's was more romantic, violin playing pictured. Look at the composer, do you see what I see? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:08, 28 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Misatango coming up for me --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – April 2023[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2023).

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:10, 4 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Project duck[edit]

This IP looks an awful lot like Project based on today's Talk:The Death of Stalin edits. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:04, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You are correct, thank you - I protected the talk page for a while. Antandrus (talk) 18:24, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – May 2023[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2023).

Guideline and policy news

  • A request for comment about removing administrative privileges in specified situations is open for feedback.

Technical news



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:22, 3 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another appearance of the globally banned user?[edit]

See these diffs ([2], [3]) at Cambodian genocide. Regards, TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 23:04, 6 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes - good catch. Absolutely. It takes a village. Or a dedicated team of watchers. :) Antandrus (talk) 23:08, 6 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You've got mail[edit]

Hello, Antandrus. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.XXBlackburnXx (talk) 12:41, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May songs[edit]

May songs
Broad apple tree towards forest, Ehrenbach.jpg
my story today

I had a good story on coronation day: a Te Deum we sang that day. And the following day we sang it for the composer ;) - And today we remember a composer who created music especially for us! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 9 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Indeed, a good story! - I have a bandoneon myself, manufactured in Saxony in the 1860s, brought over by an ancestor, who used to play transcriptions of the German orchestral repertoire to homesick immigrants in a large US city in the age before recordings. Some of the notes still work, but I'd love to get it rebuilt. The way the buttons are arranged works better for Joseph Lanner than Schoenberg, I have to say. Antandrus (talk) 21:53, 9 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
thank you! - more pleasant music - just heard! - if you click on songs - did you know a string quartet with two cellos? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:21, 14 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
and now May scenery pictured when you click on songs, - scroll up if you missed the chamber music --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:11, 20 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Pentecost was full of music, and my story today is that 300 years ago today, Bach became Thomaskantor, with BWV 75, writing music history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:43, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Mind keeping an eye on a page for me? Ljupco's taken interest in Talk:Stalinism (disambiguation) and I'm going to have too much stuff on my plate IRL to risk any Wikipedia soon, if not by tomorrow than certainly by midweek.

I don't see much value in protection as disruption will just continue on other pages and given that this target has extremely limited visibility may actually be counterproductive, but I'll defer to your judgement on that one, given your extensive experience with the case. (talk)

Edit requested on RFPP. Copied. Courcelles (talk) 20:02, 14 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you both - will do. Antandrus (talk) 20:31, 14 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Special:Contributions/ Ban evasion, personal attacks 2600:8801:1CA7:5600:B9A9:8638:9EDD:AB76 (talk) 16:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you! - Antandrus (talk) 16:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

June songs[edit]

June songs
Margeritenwiese, Eschenhahn.jpg
my story today

I like today's Main page, and here's why ;) - (DYK that we got filmed when performing the piece mentioned) -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:56, 2 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]