Talk:Yesh Atid

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Plural of 'Knesset'[edit]

"..and was guaranteed the position of chairman of the party during the term of the 19th Knesset and the 20th Knesset."

I hope some kind editor will be able to supply the plural, so as to avoid awkward phrasing such as the above. Harfarhs (talk) 17:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Harfarhs: It's just "Knessets" isn't it (so the text would be "and was guaranteed the position of chairman of the party during the terms of the 19th and 20th Knessets."). The term seems to be widely used in the media in this context. Number 5 7 17:33, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for getting back so quickly, although the ping doesn't seem to have worked (yet?) I guess that if sources say "Knessets" then we also can. I only wondered whether there was a plural borrowed from Hebrew as there is one from Irish, "Daileanna" - see the penultimate paragraph here. But I'll amend the text to follow your suggestion! Harfarhs (talk) 18:00, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Center-left description[edit]

The Article points out the consensus of Yesh Atid being on the left end of the centrist bloc, as well as a strong array of sources describing it as "center-left". Because a minority refer to it otherwise doesn't mean that the overwhelming majority of source should be ignored. Even "Center-left to center right" would be more acceptable, as it is at least including all opinions. Mr manor11 (talk) 08:57, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, the BBC article you listed when you reverted the change doesn't mention Yesh atid as "center-right" anywhere in the article, the JC link is to an opinion piece, and the google book is already listed in the wiki page, and is about the source I can find anywhere for the "center-right" description Mr manor11 (talk) 09:00, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(e/c) Why do you think those describing it as centre-right are a minority? A Google search gives 2,200 for "centre-right", 290 for "centre-left" and 43,500 for just "centrist". Number 5 7 09:04, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because google searching for keywords doesn't filter out op-eds, unreliable sources, any time the two words are in close proximity, and may not pick up every time either.

The vast majority of sources wikipedia considers to be trustworthy consider it a centrist bloc, a center-left bloc, or a 'Centrist bloc aligned with the left'.

You also gave me faulty sources. Mr manor11 (talk) 09:08, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An on another quick note, many of these people on the google search will be referencing the same set of sources from which they draw from. Local newspapers/media drawing it from the same handful of sources doesn't make it any more accurate, even if said louder, and would still be giving undue weight to those few original sources. Mr manor11 (talk) 09:11, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems highly unlikely that somehow nearly all the 2,000+ sources describing the party as centre-right are mismatches or unreliable and the couple of hundred describing it as centre-left nearly all are correct matches and reliable. And the first few hits for centre-right include the Financial Times, Jewish Chronicle, Sky News and the Scottish Herald, which seems to disprove the assertion about reliability.

Re the question on my talk page, I am not Israeli, but I lived there for a while and have been very interested in Israeli politics ever since. As with a couple of other parties in Israel, "left" is usually a label thrown at them as a slur by those on the right. In practice Yesh Atid is a centrist party that leans somewhat to the right on economic issues and slightly to the left on social issues. Its best description is probably simply "liberal". Number 5 7 12:12, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Number 57, as above.--Autospark (talk) 14:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't give me sources. You gave me 2000 twitter posts, facebook rants, partisan outlets (The Jewish chronicle is a firmly left-wing outlet) with a couple outdated ones mixed in. In addition, switiching the spelling to the American version (Spelling is as "Center" instead of "Centre" will roughly invert the results, so it means nothing either way.

Wikipedia's standards for sources are pretty clear, and those who meet is describe Yesh Atid as Center-left. Further, many of the center-right articles come from a few-months timeframe back when it coalitioned with Likud in 2014, and given it was a new party, it was a natural assumption that it'd be center-right. These sources are all outdated, and sometimes even the same news outlets changed their own description to Center-left.

You claiming that "left" is a slur (it isn't) doesn't change the fact of the matter, and if we are using that as a basis, then wikipedia is wholly unusable, since numerous national conservative, libertarian, or populist parties are slandered as "far-right" with that being an acceptable act on this website. If distrusting a decription because it could be used as a slur was a policy, no party on this website would be unaffected.

As such, barring a reason why "Center-left" is an incorrect description, it should be added. Mr manor11 (talk) 10:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that you claim the Jewish Chronicle is "firmly left-wing" suggests you either don't know anything about the British media landscape, or are simply pushing a right-wing POV (or both).

Changing to "center" in the searches does bring up more hits for "center-left", but the totals for the combined spelling options are 2,615 for centr/e right and 1,178 for centr/e right, so there is still overall a strong preference for centre-right. Number 5 7 10:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was using it as example to show the terrible policy of using whichever soundbite is repeated more often. You're arguing for something to be listed or not listed based on how much it is repeated by regular people online. Not reliable sources advocating one way or the other.

2 Here's some headlines and excepts from the JC:

"Netanyahu throws a tantrum over US ceasefire vote abstention and plays into the hands of Hamas"

"Netanyahu could barely conceal his rage [When discussing rhe Yesh Atid leaving his 2013 government]"

This is obviously not a source that should be used anywhere near wikipedia. This a sensationalist, and partisan outlet which spits upon journalistic integrity and fair reporting.

Again, do you have a reason as to why Center-left is incorrect? Mr manor11 (talk) 15:02, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The JC is the main newspaper of the Jewish community in the UK. While it has a clear right-wing bias at present (and has lost several libel cases due to inaccurate reporting on left-wing activists), it is not quite as bad as the Daily Mail etc.

As for centre-left – again, the party is described as centre-right, centrist and centre-left. Editors have to make a judgement of which of these to use (some or all). In my view people tend to argue is centre-right or centre-left depending on their own position on the spectrum, or its position relative to others (and because Israeli politics having drifted strongly to the right in the past decade, centrist parties can now appear to be on the left). Number 5 7 21:19, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're misleading again. I've already provided proof of the paper's leftist bent. Their reporting on "left-wing activists" had nothing to do with their leftism, but exclusively their stance on Israel. Claiming it as a "right-wing" paper is your opinion, but unsupported, and therefore not policy.

As for the second point, a party only matters relative to the others, and wikipedia describing the USA has "having 2 right-wing parties" for example, would still be poor choice of description.

Even if that was not the case, again, the "Center-right" description by souces considered reliable is 1. Heavily outnumbered by those who disagree, and call it Center-left, and 2. Almost all stemming from a 4-6 month period in 2013/2014 when YA was coalitioning with Likud, and expected to be a moderate right partner to them, rather than an opponent. Some of them have even revised thier stance later on, so using their old article is very dishonest.

You've also been consistently giving me sources which do not back up your argument, and using social media post frequency to back yourself up.

I say all this as someone who will probably end up voting for them, all things considered, so questioning my character won't get you anywhere. Mr manor11 (talk) 21:28, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]