Talk:Titanic Memorial (Washington, D.C.)

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Is the 1931 date correct? It says 1931 in the infobox, yet the article references a copy made in 1921. Also, the article references the supporting exedra being made by Henry Bacon, who died 1921. 1931 should probably be 1921. 71.178.83.157 (talk) 01:48, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Titanic Memorial (Washington, D.C.)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: APK

Reviewer: Johnson524 (talk · contribs) 11:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Happy to do a review of this article! I'm a little busy right now, but I should get to the review by the end of the week. Cheers! Johnson524 11:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to review. APK hi :-) (talk) 03:01, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]


GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·

Sorry for how long it took for me to do this 😅 This is my first full GA review I've done, and I wanted to do a thorough job. The prose reads really well, but there are a few changes I would like to see made before passing, most of which are pretty minor and quick fixes. I still have to do a citation check, but in the meantime, let me know if you have any questions! Johnson524 22:45, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prose[edit]

  • Up to you, but I would change the instances of Amongst → Among because, while the words are interchangeable, "amongst" seems like the older and less used of the two in modern writing.

Lead[edit]

  • Up to you, but could the phrase gave their lives so that women and children might be saved be put in quotes?
I'm confused. I'm not quoting anyone. APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Oh I mean the plaque itself, but that seems a little silly looking back at it, nevermind 😅 Johnson524 17:41, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The idea for a memorial to honor those lost during the tragedy was mentioned quite soon after the sinking. → The idea for a memorial to honor the victims of the sinking was mentioned shortly afterward. I think this reads a little better, and is a little more neutral and condensed.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Up to you, but could the sentences After sending thousands [...] and The federal government [...] be joined with a semicolon?
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The winning design by Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, who would later open the Whitney Museum, would be her first major commission. → The winning design by Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, who later opened the Whitney Museum, became her first major commission. WP:INTOTHEWOULDS.
    • Whitney Museum → Whitney Museum of American Art Adds context, museum alone doesn't sound like art.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • After years of planning and seeking approval from different agencies, → After planning and seeking approval from different agencies, Condense.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was reinstalled at its current location, Southwest Waterfront Park in Washington, D.C.,'s Southwest Waterfront neighborhood. → It was reinstalled at its current location at Southwest Waterfront Park in the Southwest Waterfront neighborhood. I think this reads a little better, and while grammatically correct, I intentionally tried to remove the awkward phrase "D.C.,'s".
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The granite figure that is the centerpiece of the memorial depicts a partly clad male figure with arms outstretched standing on a square base. → The centerpiece of the memorial depicts a partly clad male figure with arms outstretched standing on a square base. Condenses, and reads a little smoother to me.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • that encloses a small, raised platform. → which encloses a small, raised platform. Gets rid of "that".
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The statue is one of a small number of prominent outdoor sculptures in Washington, D.C. that were designed by women. → The statue is one of a small number of prominent outdoor sculptures in Washington, D.C. designed by women. Condense.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Planning[edit]

  • a committee to erect a memorial in honor of the men who were lost at sea. → a committee to erect a memorial to honor the men who were lost at sea. Reads smoother.
    • I would suggest further condensing to honor the men who were lost at sea. → to honor the men who gave up their spot on a lifeboat. or to honor men's sacrifice. to be more in-line with the source material, condense, and since "lost at sea" is an expression, which can be replaced with normal (albeit less poetic) grammar.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • which included amongst its earliest members U.S. Representative Florence Prag Kahn, Laura Spelman Rockefeller, Cornelia Cole Fairbanks, Senator Oscar W. Underwood's wife, Bertha Woodward, Harvey Washington Wiley's wife, Anna Kelton, and the wife of Theodore Marburg. → whose members first included U.S. congresswoman Florence Prag Kahn, philanthropist Laura Spelman Rockefeller, wife of the 26th U.S. vice president, Cornelia Cole Fairbanks, wife of senator Oscar W. Underwood, Bertha Woodward, wife of the FDA commissioner Harvey Washington Wiley, Anna Kelton, and the wife of jurist Theodore Marburg. Context, play around with the wording further if you'd like, but this is the best I could come up with.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The women wanted to raise funds for a grand memorial, preferable an arch in a prominent place, and so a fundraising campaign began. → The women began a fundraising campaign for a memorial they pictured to include a large arch in a prominent place. I was originally going to say to quote the less-neutral phrase "grand memorial", but I couldn't find any mention of this want in the sources provided, so I rewrote the sentence without it.
    • Can you think of a way to combine the last sentence of this paragraph (starting with "In addition to wanting an arch [...]") with this one? They both talk about early plans for the memorial, but I couldn't think of a way that wouldn't result in a run-on sentence.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • women across the country that were involved [...] → women across the country who were involved [...] Removed the "that".
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The committee has raised $43,000 by January 1914. The remaining costs to erect the memorial was paid for by the U.S. government. → The committee had raised $43,000 by January 1914, and the remaining costs to erect the memorial were paid for by the U.S. government. Correct "has" to "had" typo, and combined short sentences.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • and eight sculptors submitted entries. → where eight sculptors submitted entries. Reads a little better in my opinion.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Large rewrite: The person chosen to design the memorial, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, was selected in 1914, although changes were made to the statue so that his genitals were not visible. → The winner of the competition, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, was selected in 1914 to design the memorial.[4] Her design dropped the plans for an arch in favor of a 15 foot tall statue of a nude man with his arms outstretched.[1] Changes were made to the statue's final design so the man's genitals were not visible.[4] Added information about Whitney's change away from the arch design, which previously was not mentioned. What do you think?
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • She had been working on the project since 1912, → She had worked on the project since 1912, Past tense.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Titanic design would be her first large commission and one of her most notable. → The Titanic design became her first large commission and one of her most notable. Past tense.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • John Horrigan and the Piccirilli Brothers created the statue with input from Henry Moreschi, a sculptor who [...] → Sculptors John Horrigan and the Piccirilli Brothers created the statue with input from Henry Moreschi, another sculptor who [...] Added context.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Henry Bacon, who designed the Lincoln Memorial, served as architect for the project. The fabricator was R. B. Phelps Stone Company. → The architect for the memorial was Henry Bacon, who previously designed the Lincoln Memorial, and the fabricator was R. B. Phelps Stone Company. Consistency, as well as combines short sentences.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • in Washington, D.C., on March 3, 1917, → in Washington, D.C. on March 3, 1917, Remove extraneous comma.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Up to you, but could this sentence many delays, including improving [...] → many delays: including improving [...] use a colon instead of a comma? I actually don't know if this is proper grammar, but the sentence is kind of a run-on one in its current state.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • but it would take six more years before other agencies finally approved the final design and site. → but it took another six years before other agencies approved the final design and site. Tried to get rid of the repetition between "finally" and "final".
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The statue ended up being displayed in a New York City art gallery for more than ten years. It was finally installed in 1930 → The statue was displayed in a New York City art gallery for more than ten years before it was finally installed in 1930. This reads a little better I think.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • , but the dedication would not take place until the following year, the same year Whitney opened the now-famous Whitney Museum in New York City. → The memorial's dedication took place the following year in 1931, the same year Whitney opened their Whitney Museum in New York City. Rephrase for clarity. Also, I think "now-famous" is one of those phrases in MOS:EDITORIAL that assumes something is exceptional; but it's best to leave that conclusion up to the reader.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dedication[edit]

  • The dedication of the Titanic memorial took place on May 26, 1931. → The dedication of the memorial took place on May 26, 1931. Condense, or if you want to keep it, italicize the word Titanic.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Amongst those in attendance at the dedication → Amongst those in attendance of the dedication Reads slightly smoother.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Up to you but, how does Whitney's design in the shape of a cross was a reminder of Jesus' sacrifice. → Whitney's design of a man with his arms outstretched was reminiscent of Jesus' sacrifice by crucifixion. sound? Sort of clarifies, but may be a little unnecessary the more I think about it idk.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Up to you but, and worried such gallantry would soon disappear. → and feared a future decline of such traits. may sound more neutral, but I really like how you worded the original text!
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • His speech was followed by the wife of Senator James W. Wadsworth Jr. officially handing over the memorial to the U.S. Bishop James E. Freeman led the invocation and Taft [...] This sentence needs some extra punctuation, I actually don't know what's being said here about the bishop.
I removed the U.S. abbreviation. See if that works better. APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looks good! Johnson524 17:41, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Later history[edit]

  • The original location of the memorial was near the intersection of New Hampshire Avenue and Rock Creek and Potomac Parkway, but was removed in 1966 due to construction of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. → In 1966, the memorial was moved from its original location near the intersection of New Hampshire Avenue and Rock Creek and Potomac Parkway due to the construction of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. Keeps the format of listing the date of the event at the beginning of the sentence.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Beginning in 1978, on the anniversary of the sinking, a group of men that were mostly involved in local news operations began meeting at the memorial. → Beginning in 1978, a group of men mostly involved in local news operations began meeting at the memorial on each anniversary of the sinking. Reads a little smoother in my opinion.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The group, Men's Titanic Society, gradually increased in numbers and now meets every year at a black-tie event to remember the loss of men during the sinking. → The group, known as the Men's Titanic Society, now annually holds a black-tie event to remember the men's sacrifice during the sinking. Reads a little better, clarifies and condenses.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is only one of five prominent outdoor sculptures in Washington, D.C. that were made by women, → It is one of five prominent outdoor sculptures in Washington, D.C. made by women, Condense, also "only" is another MOS:EDITORIAL phrase.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Location and design[edit]

  • decorated on each end with a dolphin, that features a bench. → decorated on each end with a dolphin that features a bench. or decorated on each end with a dolphin featuring a bench. I don't think the comma is necessary here, and it's up to you if you like the version that removes the "that" better, but this is up to you.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The original location (1942) picture seems out of place in a section that otherwise just talks about the inscription. Could you replace the aerial view image with this one instead? I think that'd look better.
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

Copyvio is all good. Reference check coming soon, but in the meantime there are a two super minor things it would be nice if you could address:

  • Can you add kind of URL to use for citation 4?
The nomination form hasn't been digitized on the NPS website. The only copy I can find online is via dropbox.(at the bottom of the page) APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not required, but there is a CS1 error on citation 10 indicating an author list. Could you use the parameters |last1= |first1= |last2= |first2= instead of |author= to fix this?
 Done APK hi :-) (talk) 05:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reference Check[edit]

Hey @APK: sorry for all the delays on my end. I'm a student right now, and track season is coming which has taken up a good bit of my free time, so thank you for all your patience 😅 There were a few more items in the prose bothering me that I just couldn't put my finger on in the main review, so I went in and corrected them myself to save some time, since you've already fixed all the listed prose items above. I couldn't find any significant original research so once these reference check items are completed, I'll pass the review. Cheers! Johnson524 18:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • a group of women formed a committee to raise money for a memorial to honor the victims, → a group of women formed a committee to raise money for a memorial to honor the sacrifice, So the first citation and memorial itself don't say the memorial is to honor the victims of the sinking, but more specifically the men who died. This is already mentioned in the sentence prior in the lede, so how does "sacrifice" work?
  • the committee had raised almost enough funds to complete the project, with the federal government paying the remaining amount. → the funds the committee had raised alongside funding from the federal government was enough to complete the project. This bit is already  Done, but I wanted to explain it. Citation 1 states that "the movement had some $43,000 in hand. The U.S. government helped out with the remainder of the estimated cost of the memorial: $500,000." so it would be incorrect to say the committee had raised "almost enough funds" when in reality it was only about 9% of it.
  • Not required, but it would be nice to see a few more in-line citations in the first paragraph of the Memorial section.
  • The architect for the memorial was Henry Bacon, who previously designed the Lincoln Memorial, So I'll leave this one up to you if you want to remove/change this sentence in some way, but technically it doesn't say Bacon also designed the Lincoln Memorial in Citation 6.

Other than this, I did a random check of half of the citations and they all checked out. This article has been a pleasure to read and review, thank you for you contributions to Wikipedia!

Thank you! APK hi :-) (talk) 08:19, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@APK, @Johnson524, is this wrapped up? It looks like we're still waiting on a couple small changes? No rush, I was just checking this for the backlog drive. -- asilvering (talk) 18:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Asilvering: Yep! Just give this review a bit longer. It's really close, there's just a few things above I found in the reference check that I'm waiting on @APK to do. Cheers! Johnson524 12:40, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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