Talk:Timeline of the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests (November 2019)

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Forced removal of car driver[edit]

The part in which a Porsche 911 driver got forcefully removed had an edit summary explaining why it was removed. Literally, that incident was no different to that in other countries such as the one with that Ferrari driver who got manhandled by a NYPD officer (YT link). Because he didn't die, was seriously injured or was somebody famous, I saw that as a trivial incident compared to others, which was why I removed it. (talk) 14:46, 12 November 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Based on the length and layout of the list (i really hate break down to day, which became 30 sections), yup probably not merit to add the " Porsche 911 " driver into the list, unless there is more follow up reporting on charge and court ruling. Matthew hk (talk) 20:34, 12 November 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Source discussion[edit]

I've started a discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#RTHK for List of November 2019 Hong Kong protests. Editors may be interested. feminist (talk) 02:10, 18 November 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Kwan Ka-wing" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

Information.svg A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Kwan Ka-wing. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 8#Kwan Ka-wing until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 16:43, 8 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Split request for "2019 November Shooting Incident in Sai Wai Ho"[edit]

Currently, the page 2019 November Shooting Incident in Sai Wai Ho is redirected into the page Timeline of the 2019–20 Hong Kong protests (November 2019). The merger was done on Nov. 21, 2019, and I found it is now more reasonable to split these two articles instead of merging into one, based on the latest development of the Sai Wai Ho shooting case. According to point 3 of the Deletion review policy, deletion review may be used "if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page". On Jan. 23, 2020, Hui Chi-fung filed a private prosecution against the traffic police officer who shot the protester in Sai Wan Ho for two counts of "attempted murder" and "shooting with intent to cause grievous bodily harm". From June to August 2020, the progress of the case have been under the spotlight of the media, especially regarding the controversial interruption of charge by the Department of Justice against Hui Chi-fung's private prosecution (I can provide references if necessary, but all these are not difficult to find in the Chinese version of the article). The UK sanction requested by Nathan Law and Luke de Pulford against the Hong Kong police and the traffic police officer's family residing in UK are also highly concerned by the public in the recent months. Last but not least, even the old versions 1 and 2 are good enough to be an independent article if they are combined.--D7CY689 (talk) 03:51, 9 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support That second linked example of the previous version is definitely not sufficient to stand alone. It only describes the events, and that is why it got restored to a redirect where the incident content is already covered here. (I know you said "if they are combined", I just wanted to describe why the redirect was restored.) The merge discussion Talk:2019_November_Shooting_Incident_in_Sai_Wai_Ho took place all within November of last year, so I think a lot of emphasis needs to be placed on the ensuing events that have occurred this year to best demonstrate its standalone notability. That original merge also seems to have been a bit hasty given that there was some opposition voiced, and no official consensus determined. The opposition wasn't even addressed; the merge was simply carried out... Regardless, as I said, that was all within November, and as described above, more developments have occurred.
    To D7CY689: Note that Pages tagged as "Removed redirect" tend to get re-reviewed by NPP relatively quickly from what I have seen. If you don't think you will need time to properly add the recent developments (it looks like the redirect was restored within 4 hours of you last attempt), you can use the user space or draft space and then just copy it all over at once. It might be helpful to post a draft here to better show how you envision the article to end up and possibly gain more feedback one way or another, but that's up to you. -2pou (talk) 18:35, 21 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak oppose: I am the one who proposed the original merge, mainly because at that point the article was rather undeveloped and we can handle it better with the main article. Now that it is nearly a year after the incident, there is indeed some follow-up development, but I don't really think that it is really extensive enough. Hui also launched another private lawsuit against a taxi driver who tried to ram over someone as well, and this is actually the third gunshot injuries during the protests. I think having a page that documents all gunshot injuries is more appropriate than giving this incident a standalone article. OceanHok (talk) 10:08, 29 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak oppose: There are only a few points of news coverage type aftermath (like plenty of other events have subsequent lawsuits and even criminal proceedings but aren't standalone-worthy on WP) and Wikipedia is not news. This is a borderline case though. — MarkH21talk 17:45, 16 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support: The current article Timeline of the 2019–20 Hong Kong protests (November 2019) did a very bad job in explaining the Shooting Incident in Sai Wai Ho, which covers less than 5% contents of the original article. Besides, Hui Chi-fung, who filed a private criminal prosecution against Kwan Ka-wing, just arrived in Denmark to seek for political exil yesterday. Those are all follow ups of the event.--Babykingdom (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2020 (UTC) Babykingdom (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Reply[reply]
  • Support: Split and elaboration is needed.--Opsross (talk) 03:22, 25 May 2021 (UTC) Opsross (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Reply[reply]
  • Support: The old versions are comprehensive.--Nextdooraccount (talk) 23:13, 30 October 2021 (UTC) Nextdooraccount (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Reply[reply]

Procedural comments[edit]

  • The article is split. For further discussion please go to the new discussion page. --D7CY689 (talk) 00:06, 29 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Please follow WP:PROSPLIT for the proper procedure of splitting an article. You just enacted your proposal (without removing the split tag and waiting for this discussion to be closed) just 3 hours after the notification was sent to the participants of the previous merge proposal.
      There was consensus for the article to be merged in November 2019 here and this is a proposal to reverse that consensus, so allowing for a proper discussion over reversing that consensus is particularly important. This is just a matter of procedure and achieving consensus. — MarkH21talk 04:06, 29 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • You ping the other people in the previous discussion, but you didn't ping me so I'm not aware. You posted that "re-split discussion" on the talk page of Talk:2019 November Shooting Incident in Sai Wai Ho, but I started the discussion here (in this article) since Sep. 6, so I'm also not aware. You can either ping me or post your comment here if you want me to aware that you are interested in this issue. I don't even know other people are interested in the discussion as only 2pou had replied to me. Besides, you have also moved my article Separation of powers in Hong Kong to the draft page without notifying me on my talk page, so that page can be deleted automatically after a while if I am not aware of that as well (luckily I saw this accidentally). I don't understand why the deletion process can be done in such a secret manner. And for the article of shooting event itself, in the latest version I contained development of the events in the past 6 months. In the last discussion, the main argument to merge the article is that there will be no more attention to the case after Nov., 2019. The argument at that time was wrong because there are so many new developments. Now you removed all developments of the events that I added, so you can simply say "there is no new development of the case let's merge the article back" because you just removed all the latest developments and you don't allow me to add them to prove that the previous argument was wrong.--D7CY689 (talk) 05:52, 29 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
        • I pinged the participants of the previous discussion to notify them about the discussion here that you started. It's a notification, not a new discussion, and I don't need to ping you to ping others particularly when you're already participating in this discussion.
          Please keep this discussion focused on this split. In short, as I explained at Draft talk:Separation of powers in Hong Kong, draftification is a normal process for underdeveloped new articles as documented at WP:DRAFTIFY.
          I haven't even made an argument in this splitting discussion one way or the other. You can bring up new developments here (or even in a userspace/draftspace page as 2pou suggested if there are many) as part of this discussion without forcing an out-of-process split through. Just list them and make your argument here. — MarkH21talk 06:24, 29 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Kwan Ka-wing" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

Information.svg A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Kwan Ka-wing. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 October 16#Kwan Ka-wing until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 16:33, 16 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]