Talk:Susanna Hoffs

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General[edit]

I think the "forthcoming solo album" listed in her discography could be the covers album she recorded with Matthew Sweet (Under the Covers, Vol. 1). Or does she have another one? -WordsAmp 11:40, 2 March 06 (EST)

Middle name[edit]

IMDB lists her middle name as "Lee". I haven't been able to verify this, but I still added it. "-- Madman332 18:56, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)"


Birth year[edit]

According to IMDB, NNDB, Allmusic.com, Susanna is born in 1959. However, various other sites lists her as born in 1957. A google search for "Susanna Hoffs 1959" returns the same amount of hits as "Susanna Hoffs 1957". www.anybirthday.com doesn't list her at all. I don't know where to get this verified, but I'm going with 1959 for now because at least Allmusic.com and IMDB has some credibility. "-- Madman332 18:56, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)"

It is amazing however: She likes very youthful on the 2003 promo photograph: Is it an older photograph? Or does she really looks like this in this days? On the other hand: some people can keep more fresh than others. Most peope would think of me as twenty five, although i am more than ten years older...

At least one source has Susanna Hoffs listed for a 1957 birthday. In interviews, Hoffs has given rather unconvincing, convoluted explanations for how the 1957 birthdate came into circulation. Perhaps, it's the approach of the "big 5-0" that is the reason for the lack of clarity on the birthdate. By the way, has she had a facelift?

According to Ancestry.com birth records, she was born in 1959. Mad Jack 07:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That said, since Susanna is one of the most beautiful women ever to have existed, it is entirely possible that we mere mortals judge her chronological age cynically. Few people had the same problem with Sofia Loren in "The Cassandra Crossing", during the filming of which she was 103, yet still had a 24 inch waist.

Hoffs a "rhythm guitarist" inaccurate[edit]

Describing Susanna Hoffs as a "rhythm guitarist" is inaccurate. Despite playing mostly rhythm guitar she also played a few (simple) lead parts while with The Bangles. (The Bangles: Return to Bangleonia, DVD, 2007)

The term "rhythm guitarist" applied as an adjective to any person should be avoided. The term describes a "role" a guitarist might fill at any given time. (http://wiki.alquds.edu/?query=Rhythm_guitar)

Rico402 (talk) 08:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Many guitarists are only comfortable in a rhythm role, even if they are able to play as a lead. However, many lead guitarists are unsuited to playing a rhythm part. It is a similar distinction to first and second violins, i.e. same instrument, different technique. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.183.201 (talk) 20:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Additional citations[edit]

Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 20:38, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

The article needs more sources and has been tagged accordingly for quite some time. SunCrow (talk) 02:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Info box[edit]

I suggest removing "Height". Would any article about a MALE rock/pop musician includes his body dimensions? (Plus, we ALL get shorter as we, especially in our inter-vetebrae discs, age.) Acwilson9 (talk) 20:14, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Place of birth[edit]

Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We are not supposed to use the California Birth Index for the personal information of living people, but it says she was born in Los Angeles County. Newport Beach is in Orange County. Perhaps her parents moved to Newport Beach when she was an infant. Binksternet (talk) 23:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the 2004 book Complete UK Hit Singles 1952-2006 says she was born in Los Angeles, the Peterson sisters also born in L.A., and bass player Annette born in Van Nuys. Of course I can see all the sources saying Newport Beach, so we have contradiction in the literature. Binksternet (talk) 23:27, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll look for some more sources. Whichever loation is used in the article text, seems like we should add a footnote about the conflicting info in sources. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:33, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some more sources below very inconsistent in year of birth! BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:09, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Newport Beach

  • Brennan, Luann; McConnell, Stacy A (1998) Contemporary musicians. : profiles of the people in music (has 1957 as year of birth)
  • The New Rolling Stone encyclopedia of rock & roll (1995) (has 1957 as year of birth)
  • Cline, Camille People entertainment almanac, 1998 (1997) (has 1957 as year of birth)
  • Strong, M. C. The great alternative & indie discography (1999) (has 1957 as year of birth)
  • Q rock stars encyclopedia (1999) (has 1957 as year of birth)
  • Baker's biographical dictionary of musicians (2001) (has 1959 as year of birth!)
  • Oseary, Guy Jews who rock (2001) (has 1961 as year of birth)
  • The Guinness who's who of Indie and new wave (1995) (has 1962 as year of birth)
  • Larkin, Colin The encyclopedia of popular music (1998) (has 1962 as year of birth)

Los Angeles

  • Betts, Graham Collins complete British hit albums (2005) (has 1957 as year of birth)
  • The Rolling stone encyclopedia of rock & roll (2001) (hs 1959 as year of birth!); 2005 edition has the same.
I'm thinking Newport Beach is fiction, and that Hoffs grew up solely in Los Angeles. After college she returned to her parents house and answered an ad for bandmates. Vicki Peterson showed up and they rehearsed in the Hoffs parents' garage which had been converted into Susanna's bachelor pad.[1][2] That garage is described as being in Brentwood[3][4] which is an upscale L.A. neighborhood a little bit east of the beach city Santa Monica. The Los Angeles Times wrote that Hoffs and David Roback both grew up in Brentwood and went to the same schools.[5] They both went to Palisades High School.[6] There's nothing in the literature about her growing up in Newport Beach, going to schools there, having childhood friends there. There's nothing about a Newport Beach hospital being the place of birth. Binksternet (talk) 03:33, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead[edit]

@Landplane123: I don't think that your recent edits to the lead of the article are in line with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, which states that "In Wikipedia, the lead section is an introduction to an article and a summary of its most important contents." The information that you placed in the lead could be added to the article body, but putting it in the lead doesn't seem appropriate: the one-off performances are quite incidental IMO, and we don't usually single out particular reviews in the lead. I'm minded to revert the lead back to the previous version and add some of the additional info into the body, but I'm opening the discussion here first, for you or any other interested editor to reply/comment before I go ahead. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:35, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I share your view on the matter. Binksternet (talk) 01:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your feedback.
I've pared it down as you suggested. Does this work?
Susanna Hoffs is an American singer, guitarist, songwriter, actress and author. She co-founded the musical group, The Bangles, who had multiple top-10 hits in the 1980s including Manic Monday, Walk Like an Egyptian, a cover of Simon & Garfunkel's, A Hazy Shade of Winter, In Your Room and #1 charting Eternal Flame, the latter two co-written by Hoffs. The band released three studio albums and split in 1989.
She has released five solo studio albums which yielded two charting singles, the top-40 hit, My Side of the Bed and All I Want which charted in the top-100.[1]
Hoffs released her debut novel, This Bird Has Flown: A Novel, (published by Little Brown) in 2023, which received favorable reviews.[2][3] Universal Pictures purchased the rights to the novel for a screen adaptation.[4]
Landplane123 (talk) 01:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)Landplane123 Landplane123 (talk) 01:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Susanna Hoffs Chart History". Billboard. March 23, 1991. Retrieved August 18, 2023.
  2. ^ "The Smart, Ferocious Rock-Star Redemption Romance You Didn't Know You Needed by Beatriz Williams". New York Times. March 25, 2023. Retrieved August 18, 2023.
  3. ^ "The Bangles' Susanna Hoffs wrote her debut novel about a pop star - It's not her by Marc Weingarten". LA Times. April 3, 2023. Retrieved August 18, 2023.
  4. ^ "'This Bird Has Flown' Film Based On Music Biz Novel By The Bangles' Susanna Hoffs In Works At Universal by Matt Grobar". Deadline. November 10, 2022. Retrieved August 18, 2023.
@Landplane123: I've expanded the lead, whilst retaining the information that you added to it there. I've also added that to the body, and slightly expanded on it, e.g. to specify where some of the good reviews for her book came from in the text. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:40, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Landplane123 (talk) 21:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits[edit]

I had nominated this as a good article after doing quite a lot of work on it, but I've de-nominated as there are too many issues now.

Landplane123: You seem to have attempted to add a second, uncited, lead into the Career section, and it's all short paragraphs. You've added at least one claim that is not supported by the source cited. Solo career has been converted to almost a list rather than prose. I've not been through all the changes, but you seem to have been removing negative commentary and adding positive commentary, which would likely be in violation of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. I'd suggest you read the Wikipedia:Manual of Style. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:02, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your feedback, I really appreciate it. I will revert the list of albums back to prose. With some of the edits, I changed the language is some instances to "mixed reviews" rather than just negative reviews as I added some positive reviews in with the negative ones. I didn't remove any of the negative reviews, I alternated them to reflect both positive and negative reviews.
For the career section, would it be acceptable to move some of the more detailed content in the lead in to the career section? I didn't include all of the detailed content to the career section as I wanted to see if it would be acceptable at all to add that section. Also, I will provide the requested citation.
Thank you so much for nominating this as a good article. I hope that after I make your suggested edits, you will consider nominating it again. I'm a huge fan of Susanna's work and have really enjoyed learning so much more about her career and documenting it in her article.
Landplane123 (talk) 17:03, 10 October 2023 (UTC)Landplane123[reply]
Landplane123 Thanks for your reply. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:49, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I truly appreciate your expertise and guidance!
Best wishes, Landplane123 (talk) 00:13, 12 October 2023 (UTC)Landplane123[reply]

Issues with the article[edit]

@Landplane123:

Have you read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons?

When You're a Boy: the text previously read "The album received a negative critical reception", cited to Zeck (1995) which describes the album as " rather poorly received". You have changed this to "The album received mixed reviews" using the same source which is a misrepresentation.

The Allnighter: the text previously read "which was a commercial and critical failure" (in the lead). The body had three negative reviews cited as well as a source for text that it was commercially unsuccessful. You have changed the text to say that it "received mixed reviews". A somewhat positive comment on Hoffs's performance from the LA Times is included. That review also uses phrases such as "utterly lacking in any irreverence or insight", "woefully short on fresh ideas" and " a total snooze, a failed beach-bunny comedy that misses the perfect wave--by a mile". From the comments I've seen about the movie (including at at Rotten Tomatoes), I don't see how the reviews for the film can be described as mixed rather than poor.

Why remove Larkin's comment "The Bangles folded in 1989 partly because Susanna Hoffs was being touted as the 'star' in a previously egalitarian band. It is ironic, therefore, that her solo career failed to come close to the success enjoyed by her old band."? Admittedly it should be paraphrased but he's a significant commentator and I though this was an interesting view.

There are numerous style issues. Why have you added repetition at the start of the career section? Quotes should be in quotation marks, not italics. See MOS:QUOTATIONS (and MOS:CURLY.) Titles of publications should be in italics. (MOS:ITALICTITLE.)

I really don't have the will to go through the whole article and look for more issues. These ones just jumped out at me. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:27, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will revert the reviews and correct the quotations.
Landplane123 (talk) 02:47, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Landplane123[reply]
I agree with the views expressed by BennyOnTheLoose. Let's not make this into a puff-piece and ignore neutrality. Binksternet (talk) 03:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Reverted reviews and original content as well as correcting quotations. Thank you for your feedback. Landplane123 (talk) 04:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Landplane123[reply]
Made the corrections that you suggested. Thank you for your feedback and support. It's always greatly appreciated! Landplane123 (talk) 04:31, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Landplane123[reply]

Career section[edit]

I really don't understand why there should be a summary of the career in that section, before the individual subheadings. I don't think that this level of repetition is useful for readers, or is in the spirit of WP:LEAD. In the Career section, I'd like to remove any unrepeated information fom the the text above "The Psychiatrists and the Unconscious" to the relevant sections below, and delete the rest. Any opinions? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:54, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the redundancy added in October by Landplane123 is not good. Remove the heading "Career" along with the summary, and upgrade the subsections by one level.
We should reorganize her career chronologically, making a pre-Bangs section followed by a Bangs/Bangles section. Binksternet (talk) 17:52, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please feel free to remove content as you see fit. Landplane123 (talk) 23:19, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the input. I'll take this as consensus to proceed. Ping me if you have any concerns. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:22, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are three paragraphs commented out at the moment - I think these have some info not already in the later text so will work on these later. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed that. Placing some of the text here that I didnt go through so closely. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:41, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In 1990, Hoffs began a solo music career and has released five studio albums. Her first solo album, When You're a Boy (1991), yielded two charting singles in the US, the Top 40 hit "My Side of the Bed", and also "Unconditional Love".[1] Her second solo album, Susanna Hoffs (1996), includes the charting single, "All I Want".[1] In 2014, Hoffs self-released her third solo album, Someday, on her Baroque Folk label on July 17, 2012. American Songwriter gave Someday a rating of 4.5 out of 5 stars and described it as "easily and undeniably Hoffs' most definitive musical statement to date".[2] In 2021, she released, Bright Lights, produced by Paul Bryan and features versions of songs by Nick Drake, Michael Nesmith, Richard Thompson, Pete Ham and Tom Evans of Badfinger, and other canonical songwriters.[3] The album includes "Name of the Game" featuring Aimee Mann.[4] In 2023, Hoffs released, The Deep End, produced by Peter Asher and includes performances by musicians such as Danny Kortchmar, Leland Sklar, Russell Kunkel, Waddy Wachtel, and singer, Ledisi.[5] She has toured with Don Henley, Aimee Mann, and Matthew Sweet, among others.[6][7]

Notable solo performances include the Lilith Fair, the Academy Awards (duet with Randy Newman), Grammy Salute to Prince (duet with Chris Martin), and Grammy Salute to Paul Simon, among others. On Hoffs Grammy Salute to Prince performance with Martin, Entertainment Weekly wrote, "This was the night's tenderest moment and certainly one of the most still, particularly in a catalog full of uptempo delights. Hoffs and Martin intertwined their voices, stripping the sweet lament to a gorgeously elegiac place".[8][9][10] In 2019, Hoffs inducted the Zombies into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as well as performing as part of the All the Young Dudes All-Star Jam with Queen's Brian May, the Zombies' Colin Blunstone, Rod Argent, Steven Van Zandt and, Ian Hunter.[11]

References

  1. ^ a b "Susanna Hoffs Albums". Music VF. November 9, 2021. Archived from the original on October 17, 2023. Retrieved September 26, 2023.
  2. ^ "Susanna Hoffs: Someday". August 6, 2012. Archived from the original on July 26, 2021. Retrieved July 26, 2021.
  3. ^ Cite error: The named reference American Songwriter was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference Rolling Stones was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. ^ Cite error: The named reference Ultimate Classic Rock was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ "Boxscore Top Concert Grosses" (PDF). Billboard. August 10, 1991. Archived (PDF) from the original on September 26, 2023. Retrieved September 26, 2023.
  7. ^ "We've Got A File On You: Susanna Hoffs". Stereo Gum. November 9, 2021. Archived from the original on May 29, 2023. Retrieved September 26, 2023.
  8. ^ "The 10 best moments from the Grammys Salute to Prince Sheila E., Maya Rudolph, and Susanna Hoffs all paid tribute to the Purple One By Alex Suskind and Sarah Rodman". Variety. April 21, 2020. Archived from the original on August 22, 2023. Retrieved August 18, 2023.
  9. ^ "In 'Homeward Bound: A Grammy Salute to Paul Simon,' Artists From Rhiannon Giddens to Jonas Brothers Take on Essential American Tunes: TV Review by Chris Willman". Variety. December 21, 2022. Archived from the original on August 22, 2023. Retrieved August 18, 2023.
  10. ^ "Susanna Hoffs Hazy Shade of Winter Live 2022". Mystery Steamboat. December 23, 2022. Archived from the original on August 29, 2023. Retrieved August 18, 2023.
  11. ^ "Read Susanna Hoffs' Tender Rock Hall Tribute to the Zombies - The Bangles frontwoman honors the Zombies' legacy with enthusiastic induction speech by Jon Blistein and Suzy Exposito". Rolling Stone. March 29, 2019. Archived from the original on September 6, 2023. Retrieved September 29, 2023.

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Susanna Hoffs/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 23:56, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Theepicosity (talk · contribs) 14:40, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This is a really good article! Very thorough, very well written, with a nice encyclopedic tone throughout. The sources are very impressive, it seems like a lot of care was taken, which is good for a biography of a living person. Very nice! :D

  1. Is it well written?
    a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    The discography and filmography section is consistent with others on Wikipedia, which I like. The lead section gives a nice summary of her notable songs and a brief history of her film roles, including her first and other important ones. It seems pretty well organized to me, I especially like how her most notable work is at the top and her following works go into lower paragraphs in the lead. I think the prose in general (but especially the lead) could be shortened down in some sections, but that would be a future improvement if it was going for featured article status ;p
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research?
    a. (reference section):
    b. (inline citations to reliable sources):
    Inline citations are frequent, there is a nice variety of media sources, and they seem to be written by quite reputable people. Very impressive!
    c. (OR):
    The inclusion of quotations is super nice, it really enhances the credibility and the general reading experience!
    d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
    e. (source spot-check):
    The sources look good, and match up with the quotes.
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    a. (major aspects):
    There is lots of extra details, but they are not necessarily out of scope. The lead gives a good overview of what is included in the scope. I do appreciate that there is coverage on her solo career as well as her involvement in the Bangles, it makes the article a bit more cohesive.
    b. (focused):
    The article is on the larger side, but once again, this is not bad.
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
    The article does a very good job of maintaining neutrality throughout!
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
    I checked all the images, it looks like they all have correct licensing, so we are all good in that regard!
    b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    Very good use of media all around! One edit I might recommend is to find a different picture to replace the image captioned "Hoffs in 2008," as it doesn't seem particularly relevant to that section. But this is pedantic- the image itself looks good, which is good enough for good article status!
  7. Overall:
    Pass, fail or on hold:

Did you know nomination[edit]

(
)
Susanna Hoffs in 2006
Susanna Hoffs in 2006
Improved to Good Article status by BennyOnTheLoose (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 47 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:22, 6 April 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • I shall review this. It may take time, in which case: if the review appears unfinished, please be patient. Thank you. Storye book (talk) 10:33, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Thank you for this fascinating article, with its impressive number of sources, and useful tables. It certainly deserves a GA in my opinion.

Good to go, with image. All the ALTs are fine, but I prefer ALT0, because it is the most fun. Storye book (talk) 11:23, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


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