Talk:Star of David

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Male and Female source no good[edit]

I followed the source (an article at Chabad) to the comment in the Kabbalah section that the star is associated in popular accounts with "the Six Sefirot of the Male (Zeir Anpin) united with the Seventh Sefirot of the Female (Nukva)." The article does not say anything of the sort -- if you look at the oldest archived versions on, someone made a comment on the article that says "I read somewhere that an upward pointed triangle represents one sex and the downward triangle the other." The author of the article did not respond. Is that seriously the source??? Rather than just deleting this statement, I tried to find a reliable source. This does not seem to be a Jewish mystical interpretation at all, but rather it is associated with Western Occultism, tarot, Aleister Crowley, and presumably the Hermetic Qabalah which is NOT Jewish in any way. I'd be overjoyed if someone could find an authentic Jewish source for this statement, but as far as I can tell it's simply false and should probably be deleted.Yonderboy777 (talk) 22:10, 4 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Turkish Use of the Star[edit]

The Karamanids have used the Star of David from the 13th century until its fall in 1487. This needs to be reflected in the article.

Turks have been using the Star of David as a symbol since the 13th Century. I think it's worth mentioning. You'll see the star in many historical landmarks all round Turkey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:03, 11 October 2009 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Randgwynne (talkcontribs) 02:30, 29 June 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Age and History[edit]

This article barely goes to the roots of the Star of David, but I was wondering exactly how old and influential it was in the past. Its true origin, if possible. I found a picture (Image:Fig5Ishjamts p166R2.gif) on the Xiongnu wiki page that shows the Star of David being used in Turkic-Asian writing as early as the second century BC. Can anyone help me explain this? If the Star was spread to the area from Jewish culture or perhaps the symbol was adopted by Israelites from the Turks.--IronMaidenRocks (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Indeed it does not, thus leaving the matter unexplored. There is enormous evidence proving that the Star of David is not of David at all. Here is one archeological discovery showing the age of this star circa 4 000 years old known as Illyricum Sacrum, which I had the pleasure to visit on site for curiosity: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snakes Rock (talkcontribs) 20:01, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rabbi Isaac Luria[edit]

To the editor of this page,

You wrote: "However, the sign is nowhere to be found in classical kabbalistic texts themselves, such as the Zohar, the writings of rabbi Isaac Luria and the like". I read on G.S. Oegema's book (Realms of Judaism, The history of the Shield of David,the birth of a symbol, Peter Lang, germany, 1996, ISBN 3-631-30192-8) that "Isaac Luria provided the Shield of David with a further mystical meaning. In his book "Etz Hachayim" he teaches that the elements of the plate for the Seder evening have to be placed in the order of the hexagram: above the three sefirot "Crown. "wisdom" and "Insight", below the other seven".

Zeevveez 14:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've added this quote to the article. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 23:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

M. Costa wrote that M. Gudemann and other researchers in the 1920's claimed that Isaac Luria influenced the becoming of the Star of David a national Jewish emblem by his teaching that the elements of the plate for the Seder evening have to be placed in the order of the hexagram, but Gershom Scholem proved that Isaac Luria talked about parallel triangles one beneath the other and not about the hexagram. [Source: "Hatakh ha-zahav, hotam Shelomoh u-magen-David", Poalim, 1990, Hebrew, pp. 156]

Zeevveez 04:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you. Looks scholarly and relevant, so I added that one as well. ←Humus sapiens ну? 06:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


To the editor of this page,

IMHO the Star of David is a Jewish symbol and there are many other sorts of hexagrams in other cultures that do not belong to the main page.

I suggest moving paragraphs that deal with the following subjects to the article about the Hexagram: Bronze Age hexagrams; Iron Age hexagrams; Arabs' and Muslims' hexagrams; Christian hexagrams ; Eastern Religions hexagrams ; Alchemy hexagrams ; Witchcraft, Occultism hexagrams ;Astrology hexagrams ; Estoiles ; Mullets (or molets) ;Chinese checkers ; Shatkona (Yantra), Mandala, Indian hexagrams ; Snowflakes ; Scientific ; Raelism ; Non Jewish heraldry and flags ; Theosophy ;Zion Christian Church ; Latter-day Saints (Mormons) ; Buddhism Hinduism and Jainism.

I have a blog about the Star of David ( and I hope to implement there what I offer you here...

Zeevveez 11:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good idea. I've moved most of it into hexagram. BTW, no one owns WP articles, you are just as "editor of this page" as anyone else. Please add new posts to the bottom. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 23:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Whether some editors like it or not the source of the SoD is not only of Jewish origin, and therefore cannot now be claimed to be Jewish - as where the jews originated from or got their religious ideas from must be taken into account. Mr. Humus sapiens should refrain from allowing his religious beliefs from clouding his judgement, as belief is not proof nor does it premote any advancement in knowledge. Karen Solvig 22:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The other subjects talk about hexagram. I was particularly bothered by the proliferation of swastikas on this page. BTW, I did not disclose my religious beliefs so may I suggest you be careful in your assumptions and assume good faith. ←Humus sapiens ну? 09:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Origin of Star of David from making Salt in Egypt[edit]

A very original theory about making salt in ancient Egypt by using straw frames in the shape of Star of David in order to crystalize the salt better see on

Zeevveez 04:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Link does not work, and also, a local told me about this as not true. There are some who like to mislead us into an Egyptian origin. Particularly the Babylon lot. Watch out. -- (talk) 16:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Star of David on the walls of the old city in Jerusalem[edit]

On there's a story about Sultan Suleiman (1494-1566) the Magnificent who built these walls (1535-1538). "It was Sultan Suleiman's messianic consciousness which led him to develop the link between himself and King Solomon. On the walls which he built around Jerusalem are stone decorations in the form of two interlocking triangles ­ Stars of David, known to Moslems as Khatam Suleiman and to Jews as Khatam Shlomo (King Solomon's Seal) ­ whose function was to protect the city". You can see photos of these Star of David on


Origin of the Star of David from the Tabernacle[edit]

The Hebrew Wikipedia for "Magen David" (Star of David) mentions that there's a theory about the origin of the Star of David from the Tabernacle without referring to the representative of this theory, Uri Ofir, who published a research and a book about this


The Star of David and Arabs/Islam[edit]

As the Arabs and Muslims are particularly averse of the star of David as one of the most prominant signs of Israel, I find the claim that they are/were using the star particularly strange. In particular, I am sure that no mosques currently have the shape.

"I am sure that no mosques currently have the shape" is too strong a sentence to use. If you have a little contact with the reality, you will find the Star of David in the most famous mosques such as the "Blue Mosque" (Sultan Ahmed Mosque) in Istanbul. It is so much widespread that no any other symbol in this mosque can match it in frequency. In fact, the Star of David in the mosques was heavily used before it was used as an exclusive reference to the Jews during the Holocaust and before the establishment of the State of Israel. Go to the Blue Mosque and Haghia Sophia in Istanbul, and use your eyes to prove that "no mosque currently has the shape" (the Star of David). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snakes Rock (talkcontribs) 07:20, 15 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's a fact that Islam reveres David and Solomon as prophets, but the religion and its followers have very different beliefs and stories from the Jews narration of that period. It's also a fact that Islam architecture makes heavy use of the pentagram.

As the passage about Arabs and Islam doesn't actually support the claim that there is actual use of the star of David, I would suggest that it be omitted. Otherwise, clear example of such usage and the mention of reference(s) will be appreciated.-- 08:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Doing a google search the first hit I found had this picture [1]. Admittedly the big star doesn't have the internal lines, however I'm sure I could find some other examples that did. Just remember, the Star of David has only become an emblem of Judaism quite recently, so even a hundred years ago there wouldn't have been much reason for muslims to avoid using this symbol in art.
After a couple of minutes of searching, I've found some more examples: [2], [3] (from this page )
That particular kind of star made by two interlocking triangles is a really obvious design to use because it's so easy to tesselate. I'm not an expert on the subject, but if this design were not used in Islamic art, I would expect there to be a pretty strong reason why not. And until about the 20th Century, I can't think of what that reason might have been.
These examples were found in only a few minutes, with no expert knowledge on my part. Fuzzypeg 03:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am the person who put the above comment, and I can see you have a pretty strong point. Especially after I checked the Karamanid flag and took another internet tour. Thanks for the explanation.
Should a statement be added to the effect that "After the establishment of the flag of Israel, Arabs and Muslims tend to stay clear of the use of the hexagram, while still making heavy use of the pentagram in current architecture."? I am not sure of the historical facts, if the refraint from hexagram has happened as a direct consequence of the flag or other events, though. --Karouri 16:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The hexagram is used in Mosque architecture because of its geometrical beauty. Dozens if not hundreds of shapes are used to decorate mosques. Hexagrams continue to be used in newly-contructed mosques around the world because its a part of the repatoire of arabesque designs that have been standard now for over a millenia. Just look at the mosque in DC or any number of mosques built in Jersey. Or the recontructed mosques in Bosnia, or the repair work done by the Saudis in Mecca and Medina, or the new mosques that are going up in Islamabad. Also the mosque in Paris. There is no basis to say that the hexagram is avoided. As a political symbol the hexagram is detested, but as an abstract geometrical design no one really cares. Ahassan05 17:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)ahassan05Reply[reply]

I think the design of the six-pointed star is integral to Islamic art and architecture, and its use in Islam might predate its adoption as a Jewish symbol. I recommend that you all check this link [4] and read the date and the description of the object at the museum. A.Khalil 20:44, 7 October 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The symmetry that revolves around the David Star (not the actual star) and the Swastika has been around for ages, most prominently in Arabia, Persia and India thousands of years before Islam. A triangle, or two, pentagon, squares rotated into stars were shapes and symmetry's used by many people many of which were unrelated to either Judaism or Islam. Islamic Art has some of its origins based on Northern Arabic local art unrelated to any religion, but, the dome, style and many other architectural advances such as finer mosaics on ceilings originates from ancient Persian Zoroastrian worship houses which were later destroyed and some based on Jewish temples (especially the Idea of the pillars of Islam); the actual symmetry was not based on any religion, but rather local art. But if you consider that Mohammed originally claimed he was a prophet to the Jews, and that Mohammed followed many Jewish traditions until the Jews told him they don't see him as a prophet, might explain a possible use of the star of David in Islam, however, Islamic Art never flourished until many decades after Mohammeds death, and considering the lack of evidence in regards to the origins of the star in a Jewish context, considering the dates, it is highly unlikely. The story here is like claiming the symmetry revolving around a circle, square or triangle belongs to a certain sect, which is not right, as these are universal shapes, with the symmetry even witnessed in some areas of the America's. Personally, when I was a kid, I used to draw all my stars using two triangles, it's easier, to claim the star as an original Jewish shape is also wrong as there have been uses of it out of the Jewish context (however, with the inside filled) in ancient times. If you beleive the UFO story, then the David Star is actually a formation of UFO's in the sky, along side they also formed a rotating swastika in the sky together, claimed to have taught man how to build a fire and marking the start of humanity (Zoroastrianism goes along these lines too but mentions angels in the sky rather than ufo's). Some also claim the Swastika and Hexagram formations were 2 different tribes/forces, each instilling to branches of religion on earth, one spiritual and one ritual. I also read somewhere when Abraham was asked to sacrifice, he was actually speaking to the formation in the sky's. By UFO, it's not claimed a spaceship, but what was described was a ball of light, a glowing eye, balls of light forming in the sky to mark either Swastika or Hexagram. This is speculative, but I thought I'll mention it. -- (talk) 16:57, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Star and the Occult / Satanism[edit]

Oops. I removed the bit on the alleged relation to Satanism since I thought someone had mistaken this for a 5-sided pentagram. I see from Google that a six-sided star is occasionally connected with Satanism, but the inclusion of that tidbit here is clearly a bit of inflammatory anti-semitism, and I stand by its removal... Evercat 18:57, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Perhaps some of the stuff that's not related to Judaism could be moved to Hexagram (e.g. the bit Some cultures say etc) since this page is presumably about the Jewish use of the symbol. Evercat 19:02, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

OK, done that. The following got removed:

The symbol, itself, is noteworthy as an example of geometric symmetry. Some cultures say that the triangle pointing downwards represents female sexuality and the triangle poitning upwards represents male sexuality. The combination represents unity and harmony. In alchemy, the two triangles represent the reconciliation of the opposites of "fire" and "water". Others cynically observe that it is made up of two triangles pointing in opposite directions and therefore being an excellent symbol of the order and coherence (or rather lack thereof) of the modern Israeli state.

The shape of the star is identical to the hexagram used in Occult practices. If one examines the star of David one observes that it has six points on its outermost circle. It then has six intersecting points where each line is crossed by two others. Finally there is the innermost figure - a hexagon that is the six sided regular figure.

Some of it was just an anonymous go at Israel, and the second paragraph is an attempt to link Judaism with the number 666. I've not included these bits on hexagram.

I think the mention of the use of the Star of David by the occult is important to establish the fact that it pre-dates Judaism. It also explains why there is a significant number of Jews against the Star's use as the Israeli symbol and this helps explain why they reject it.

Afterall the Kabalah which introduced its usage in Judaism is also filled with much mysticism and magic. Is it unreasonable that this link is shown?

Perhaps not, but your first edit here included the line "This is three lots of 6, that is 666. In Christian revelations it mentions that you will know Satan by the number of the Beast-: 666." which doesn't make me trust your intentions here... Evercat 19:55, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I apologise for this mistake. The mention of 666 was not to tie it to Judaism but to the mentioned Satanism that the edit contained. I agree that the move of Satanism to the entry for hexagram is more appropriate.

Heh. OK, I guess. Though I'd be wary of making a direct tie between other groups' use of the symbol and the Christian 666... Evercat 20:06, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The Star and Human Sexuality[edit]

I was wondering, is the bit about human sexuality relevant to the Star of David? I've removed it for now (and it is now at hexagram) but it can be restated if I've misjudged its relevance. Evercat 19:36, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The Star As Used by Nazis[edit]

"A yellow-colored Star of David was used by the Nazis, during the Holocaust, as a method of identifying Jews"

Am I right that in the Warsaw ghetto, Jews were ordered to wear a white arm-band with a blue Star of David, or was this dramatic license in The Pianist? Were there any other variations? Mintguy 20:29, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

In occupied Poland Jews did wear a white armband with a blue star on it, as well as a patch on the front and back of their clothing. The Pianist was accurate (about that, if not much else.) Danny

From "Prisoners in Nazi concentration camps were labeled according to their crimes by inverted colored triangles."Regular" criminals were denoted by a green triangle, political prisoners by red triangles and Jews by two overlapping yellow triangles (to form the Star of David, the most common Jewish symbol). Homosexual prisoners wear labels with pink triangles. Gay Jews- the lowest form of prisoner- had overlapping yellow and pink triangles". See:


Hebrew Version of the Article[edit]

I'm betting that there's a version of this article in Hebrew. Does anyone know enough Hebrew to check if there is, and make a link if necessary? --cprompt 03:32, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I checked and there is no article in the Hebrew yet. To find it, cut and paste מגן דוד in the Hebrew search (on the bottom). When it is put in, I will add a link. Danny 03:42, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I found it: The Hebrew Version. --Nate3000 03:27, 30 May 2005 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I found wisdom in the Star of David. Human history is 7000 year old. On the first corner if Adam's life started then after 1400 years is time of Noah. At the Third corner is the time of Abraham. At 4th Corner is time of Elijah. At 5th corner is time of Prophet Muhammad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:26, 13 February 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Kabbalistic meaning I heard about was that one of the triangles is heaven and the other earth.--Error 05:05, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

That's a very simplistic understanding. Another meaning is fire and water, another is spirit and matter. And that's just scratching the surface. In a different context again, in Egypt I believe (and this could be revisionist history, it would need to be checked) it represented Upper (southern) and Lower (northern) Egypt. Fuzzypeg 06:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Simlar to many other symbols such as the East Asian ying and yang, in Persia the 2 faced circle or Zoroastra's symbol of good and evil... -- (talk) 17:00, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

An explanation that was offered to me once appears to be a variation on the heaven & earth theme: the upwards pointing triangle represents the great mass of God's people looking up and focussing on the One God, while the other triangle represents the enormity of God looking down on his people. -- Timberframe (talk) 22:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The whole piece on the relation of the Star of David to the nimber 7 is highly doubdful, and does not list a single credible source. I would remove the whole piece. --Maxim Leyenson (talk) 10:35, 12 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My understanding of the meaning of the star is 6 directions, with the human in the center. North, South, East, West, Up, and Down. It is a 2 dimensional representation in symbol of the three dimensional world we live in. The significance of this is that it mirrors the fact that God interacts with us and views us in this three dimensional world, while he lives in a much more complex multidimensional world. Not to debate the spiritual merits but to address the seven spirits of God. It is clearly stated in the Bible that there are seven spirits. Not sure how that relates to the star itself, but it is a religious symbol that has 6 points surrounding 1 point, and thus 7 points. If you expound on that it represents God, and God has 7 spirits, well there is a loose tie there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Christ is a Greek word for king[edit]

"Christ is a Greek word for king." Wikipedia had better remove the last outside link on the 'Star of David' page. That claim is nonsense. Christos is the Greek translation of the Hebrew 'Messias' - the Anointed One. HE IS THE KING, but that is not what the word 'Christos' means. What's the point of including such deceptive links in a serious encyclopedia?

Sorry, which link are you referring to? Jayjg 16:22, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Star of David in Antiquity[edit]

"not a single archeological proof exists as yet concerning the use of this symbol in the Holy Land in ancient times, even after King David" - when travelling through Israel in 1985, I visited the remains of ancient Kafarnaum (north of Lake Kinneret) and saw the ruins of a synagogue dating from the Roman period, clearly showing both hexagram and pentagram as prominent ornamental elements. -- Nullstein 15 April 2005

"Yay for you"? I don't understand...what are you looking for here? Kudos for your having gone a-gallivanting about the globe? I assume by "Kafarnaum", you mean "Qfar-Nachum". Despite the fact that the designs on the floor of the ruins of that particular synagogue happen to contain both pentagrams and hexagrams, I still fail to see the relevance of your observation wrt this article. At no point is any claim forwarded that this symbol has been synonymous with Jewishness since any point except late 16th Century Prague. Tomer TALK 07:35, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

pls see my reply at your talk page. Nullstein 11:47, 3 May 2005 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have been to Jerusalem too, I didn't witness any ancient Hexagrams. And one would also think, if it was an original Jewish symbol, why wasn't it used as much as it should have? -- (talk) 17:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

On the Great Seal of the United States[edit]

Original text:

The Great Seal of the United States appears to contain an image of a Star of David. At the top of the front (Obverse) side of the Great Seal is a cluster of thirteen stars arranged in a "Star of David" shape, consisting of 13 smaller five-sided Stars probably symbolizing the 13 original colonies, above the eagle's head. The seal is found on the reverse side of the U.S. one dollar bill, and is also used in other governmental capacities. No-one is absolutely sure today why the seal contains this arrangement of the thirteen stars. Some historians think it was a way of showing gratitude to Haym Solomon (1740-1785), a prominent Jew acknowledged as the prime financier of the American side during the American Revolution and the American Revolutionary War of 1776. Some maintain Solomon designed the great seal himself. Others suggest the shape is merely coincidental.

Another reason has been postulated that perhaps it was a way of the Founding Fathers of the United States acknowledging the God of the Hebrew Bible because of their strong devotion to the "Old Testament" as a guide to life. Others have seen the pattern as a sign of Jewish conspiracy; these ideas are widely dismissed as anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

I can't find any authoritative reference to anyone saying that the symbol had anything to do with Jews, or with Haym Solomon, outside of mirrored WP articles. This seemes highly dubious, which historians claim this? --Goodoldpolonius2 18:33, 2 August 2005 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Any theories beyond the obvious, that it represents the original thirteen states, are probably going to have to be treated as pure speculation. They may well be true, however there's no way of knowing... Fuzzypeg 06:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nice find. I read somewhere else the gray ufo's also use the 2 triangles in the form of David star as a representation and the david star on this eagle logo is meant to represent the grays rule over America. But all this is trivia, and like fuzzypeg said, its not easy of finding out why US government logos use so many external symbology unrelative to America, like the egyptian pyramid with the damned eye, etc. The list goes on. One can for sure say, US governmental logo's love to include Egyptian and Babylonian symbols. Whether there is a story behind it, is not easy to say. -- (talk) 11:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Magen David Adom[edit]

The paragraph about the conflict with the ICRCS is duplicate on the Magen David Adom page, and could probably be removed here. 08:42:06, 2005-08-05 (UTC)

Agreed, done. Humus sapiens←ну? 09:05, 5 August 2005 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Origin : David al Rohi (real name : Menahem) in 1150 biggest messianic mouvement ?[edit]

Hi. (excuse my english) I read in a Jews history, wrote by Josy Eisenberg, that : in 1000-1100, there were many messianic mouvements, with sionism. One of the greatest was the on ef Menahem, which takes the messianic name of "David al Rohi". He makes stand up Jews of Kurdistan and Azerbaïdjan, Perse and Bagdad, and makes a hope of conquest of the sacred land.

He writes: it is since that, that the "David shield", erronously called "David star", became a jew symbol. Links with King Devid is totally fictive.

Really sorry for my english, i'm lazy, i'm not proud.

Beer History info[edit]

The bit about the Star of David as representing beer purity in the six parts of beer has a redundancy: the grain, the malt . . . malt IS grain. Need to check out Reinheitsgebot . . . --Vidkun 15:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More about this on


Dubious claim[edit]

The article claims that "According to official Raelian statements, the swastika 'represents infinity of time, and trace its origins to Sanskrit and Buddhist symbols, to the Chinese character for temple, and to ancient catacombs, mosques, and synagogues.'" Huh? The usual Chinese character for temple is 廟 and has absolutely nothing to do with a swastika. —Lowellian (reply) 07:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)Reply[reply]

actually, being familiar with raelian lores myself, they do claim that. i think what they are thinking is the word "卍" "literally meaning ten thousand, usually used to mean "many". It is a archaic version of the word 万or 萬 (ponounced same as the english word "one") ) and yeah it's still used in temples... and apparently its used enough that you can actually type it out with a computer. i think the japanese use it more, i see a lot of it in mangas and animes, they pronounce it "ban"... BUT ANYWAY what does the the swachitka have to do with the star of david? other than that they were used as symbols of two opposing factions (nazis and jews)..

Lowellian, you need to understand China has Cantonese and Mandolin, and some modern Chinese symbols are not true to their ancient symbols. In Persian the Swastika means "Gardooneh Mehr" translates into "The ever revolving galaxy". Mehr does not exactly mean galaxy, but it means a cluster of galaxies/ a cluster of galaxies forming a huge star. So the infinity of time may have some truth to it. And I think you need to study the Swastika far more, ancient remains dating back to pre-historic times have been found all over India, Persia (Iran), Arabia, Europe. Shame about its recent image though, otherwise it could easily have been a symbol of unity due to its presence in almost all the continents. But yes, what is it doing on this article? -- (talk) 17:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here's another one: "It is possible that it was the Kabbalah that derived the symbol from the Templars." What do Templars have to do with Cabbalah? What Conspiracy theorist put this on the page? 14 March 2006


Shield or Star[edit]

Shouldn't it be mentioned that Star is incorrect and the page should be "Shield of David"?
Metallurgist 01:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is the shield correct either? I found what seems like a rather good article about the development of the symbol here. It has lots of info that the editors here may wish to include in this article. Cheers, Fuzzypeg 12:20, 27 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The canonical term in English is unequivocally "Star of David," as seen in mainstream English language dictionaries including Encarta World English and Merriam-Webster's Eleventh Collegiate. "Shield of David" is simply the literal translation of the Hebrew term for the hexagram symbol in the Jewish context. -- Deborahjay (talk) 10:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

politics and christians and star of david[edit]

Is it just me or is the phrase "supportive of the nation of isreal" seem way too politically charged. the article gives the impression that christian churches display the star of david because "MOST" chritians support the nation isreal. (although humus noted that the "nation of isreal" and "state of isreal" are techically different, its unlikely that people reading casually will notice the difference.)

well this this just isnt true... most chritians are indifferent toward the current arab isreali conflict, and if anything, western history have a long tradition of anti-semitism. Older churches like the catholic church had official anti-jewish policies til the 20th century.

unless someone can provide a citaion that architects of independent anglican and baptist church chose to display the star of david to show that the church's support toward the nation of isreal, i think we should delete that part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Forgot (talkcontribs)

I agree, this is awkward wording. I am not the author, but correct me if I am wrong: the scriptures of all these Christian demoninations mention "Israel" (I never point to spelling mistakes but please, Forgot, you keep misspelling it). By that they usually mean supersessionism, not the Jewish people. This needs to be fixed. ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since the developments in that section predate the Arab-Israeli conflict, it should not be in the picture. ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unrelated content[edit]

Per suggestion of other editor, I've moved most of the unrelated content to Hexagram. Hope it works for everybody. ←Humus sapiens ну? 23:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When it's called Star of David, it symbolizes Jewish identity. All the other uses belong to hexagram. Please do not move talk pages into article space and read WP:D. You are a new user (welcome!), please take a look at WP:NOR, WP:RS and WP:V. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 09:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Correction about Yehuda Hadassi[edit]

G.S. Oegema, Realms of Judaism, claims on page 51 that :"the earliest literary reference to the use of the Shield of David as a Jewish magic sign is not found in the 242nd chapter of the book Eshkol Hacoffer of the Karaite Yehuda Hadassi, from the 12th century, as is often written, but a copyist of later times could easily associate the words of Psalms 121:7-8…with the…Magen David"

Zeevveez 17:44, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


The Star of David has a shape, a meaning and a name:

1. Meaning: The Star of David is a symbol, an emblem, a logo of Judaism and Zionism.

2. Shape: The Star of David is a shape, a hexagram, a six-pointed star formed by two equilateral triangles which have the same center and are placed in opposite directions. It can be: (a) two dimensional or (b) three dimensional like perforation, or engraving or (c) three dimensional created by two interlocking tetrahedrons.

3. Name: The Star of David is the Shield of David, which refers to the Lord, who is also the Shield of Abram. The same name serves both the Jewish and the Christian Stars of David and there's a need for disambiguation.

4. Product: The Star of David is a product in the shape of a six-pointed star, such as necklace, earring, lampshade etc.

Trying to define the Star of David by its shape alone is not enough - even though the Star of David is a hexagram not every hexagram is a Star of David. This is a source of confusion for many people who see it on Indian temples, or as sheriffs' badges, or as Chinese checkers etc.

Trying to define it by the name alone is not enough since it has other meanings that are not necessarily connected to the shape.

Trying to define it as a product alone is not enough since there are non- Jewish products in the same shape.

So my definition is: The Star of David is the name of a two or three dimensional six-pointed star which is the emblem of Judaism and Zionism.


Zeevveez 19:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dispensationalist comment[edit]

Regarding the Dispensationalist teaching that the Star of David is really the "Satanic star of Remphan" -- Hezbollah slurring of the Star is expected, but a comment of that nature from a Dispensationalist group is not, since Dispensationalists generally consider themselves pro-Israel. IMHO, Humus, that makes it notable, whether we consider it (1) an interesting contradiction in Dispensationalist theology, or (2) a revealing insight into what Dispensationalists consider "pro-Israel" to mean. Now, if we want to talk about putting this info in the Disp article instead of here, that's certainly a discussion. I'm not trying to be troublesome, but in light of how much American foreign policy is influenced by Dispensationalist Christianity, I think this info belongs somewhere. --Jay (Histrion) (talkcontribs) 21:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree this would fit better into an article on Dispensation. But it should be noted not all dispensationalist agree with this particular Dispensationalist view —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fibroman (talkcontribs) 04:15, 8 October 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

wrong info[edit]

i found some mistakes in the information you provided on this page as far as translation. when talking about the letters completing the names of the angels it is in the word magen (shield) and not david.—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Please sign your posts and consider registering. In any case, feel free to contribute constructively in any way. ←Humus sapiens ну? 00:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mogen David Wineries[edit]

Mogen David wineries, now owned by The Wine Group, makes kosher wines such as MD 20/20.

This is my first time looking at the article, but this seems more like an advertisement than a note. Should this be deleted? AOEU 00:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Random unrelated info[edit]

Remember kıds wikipedia is not a reliable source and you should always check your work

To whoever the hell wrote this, this is unrelated to the article, I've removed it. If anyone wants to argue, including the one that wrote it, please do. This is not only childish but also publically vandalizing an important article.

Shimoji Kawazaki 15:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Right you are, Shimoji-San. Keep up the good work. Erudil 19:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Das Baz (talkcontribs)

Matthias Corvinus[edit]

Matthias is the same person as Mathios in the next paragraph. The same story repeats. 20:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC) CyReply[reply]

Yiddish WW I recruitment poster[edit]

The Yiddish caption doesn't say "I want your Old New Land", it says (as far as I can tell) "You must get your Old New Land". The word "euch" (alef yod yod chaf) is misread as "ich" (alef yod chaf). I invite Yiddishists to suggest the best translation. 20:56, 26 May 2007 (UTC) CyReply[reply]

It seems to me the best translation is: "The Old-New Land I must have!" or perhaps "The Old-New Land you must have!" Erudil 18:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Das Baz (talkcontribs) Sinebot, it is not "unsigned." Erudil is also my signature. Erudil 19:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC) Maybe "The Old-New Land must have you!" Erudil 15:52, 29 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Das Baz (talkcontribs) It is not unsigned. Erudil is also my signature. Erudil 19:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is shameful we cannot agree on the true translation, I just asked a family member, he claims it says "The Old New land must you get!" Then again, Yiddish is not his strength. -- (talk) 17:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't know much Yiddish, but what I read there is "Eir Altneiland darf eich hobn! Shlist an in dem yiddishn regiment" which I would freely translate as "Your [plural] Old New Land must have you/needs you! Join the Jewish Regiment" See also discussion here.-- (talk) 18:16, 1 September 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
“Your Old New Land must have you!” is correct. The poster was reprinted in the book The Jews in Their Land, conceived and edited by David Ben-Gurion, translated by Mordechai Nurock and Misha Louvish, Doubleday & Company. The author of its caption misread the word ayx (אײך) as ix (איך) and thus mistranslated it as “I want your Old New Land!” The irregularity of the verb darf (דאַרף) reinforces the subject-object confusion: “I must have…” as opposed to “…must have you.” In the 1966 edition, it is on page 295, and in the 1974 new revised edition, the error is on page 286. Elyaqim (talk) 10:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

use of this symbol in the Land of Israel during BCE[edit]

In the body of the article I found the following INCORRECT statement: "Notably, not a single archaeological proof exists concerning the use of this symbol in the Land of Israel during BCE". Here's why the statement is INCORRECT : 1. Ephrayim Stern found stars of David engraved on jar handles at Gibeon, Israel, and dated them to the late period of the Israeli Kingdom of the First Temple. From: Kadmoniot, 1973, Israel at the end of the period of the kingship, archeological survey, pages 2-17.See: 2. "In the Megiddo antiquities, on a wall of a room, there was found a Magen David (Star of David), same as we recognize it today, and it is drawn in lines ("Golden Section" (Hebrew book), professor Michael Costa. This Magen David (Star of David) is from the period of King Ahab son of King Solomon (853 - 874 B.C.E.). See: 3. Professor James R. Harris, mentions in his book THE NAME OF GOD p. 205 a Star of David with YAH written in Hebrew in it from the time of the Judges that was found at Gibeon and a geoglyph Shield of David he found on top of one of the Har Karkom platforms. See: 4."Another artifact found in Israel is a jar handle impressed with a hexagram, probably used as a royal seal. It dates back to the second century B.C.E., that is, the Maccabean period. It is also on display in the Israel Tax Museum, Jerusalem". Zeevveez 09:02, 5 July 2007 (UTC) See:[reply]

Check it out!

Occultist comments[edit]

The bit about a possible occultist connection belongs in the "use by the Nazis" section and certainly not in the "Magen David Adom" section, so I transferred it accordingly. Erudil 18:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Interesting symbolism in Star of David and Christian Cross[edit]

Has anyone noticed that the star of David is a twelve-sided object? I would think that the Jewish tradition would include a reference to the twelve tribes of Israel, here. Since the Christian cross is formed by intersecting polygons which divide each other's sides in three parts, it is also a twelve-sided object. It is also notable that the Betsy Ross website lists the story that George Washington preferred six-pointed stars for the first American flag, but Betsy convinced the Founding Fathers to go with five-pointed stars. Personally, I think the use of six-pointed stars would have been more consistent with the Christian heritage of the nation, since Jesus was 'descended' from David. Also, in this light, the use of the Star of David to represent the Star of Bethlehem is quite appropriate. (talk) 03:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What "christian heritage?" America has had many leaders and founders who held many different types of beliefs. your point, however interesting, fails to provide anything but original research and thought. Aceholiday (talk) 12:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Aceholiday, i think you took his view wrongly; some Christians do see the Star of David as something Christian too. He didn't claim the star is of Christian heritage, but claimed it would represent Christianity better due to Christianity's Jewish basis. Although Jesus went against many Rabbi's and Judaism, Christians still beleive the Old Testament; chaining a Jewish link. He might be wrong, but then again a Christian Jewish link is not original research. -- (talk) 17:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Star of David[edit]

The Seal of Solomon can be interpited as a mechanical drawing symbol that represents a GENERATOR. Biblical reference to the Ark of the Covant are two tablets of stone housed in a tabernacle and electrically charged. The 3 most intriging key points are studyied and have resulted in an interpitation that the Ark is Gods' gift to man. In all renderings the 2 triangles are seperate and equal. They are one in the first place and two in the second. The fact that they are seperate entities they are equal yet are intertwined in the Helix. The Helix is the relationship of the negative to the positive and is a trinity. The power of & as in N&S is no greater or less than any one of the three. Mechanization of the triangles within a radius is a generation of Electricity. The housing of such a device must be insulated since the electrical potential is not limited. Such a device is cabable of giving as much energy as the demand would be to maintain contenuity. In expiermentation it has been found that an impulse reaction can be self sustained/generating in as such; no need for a fuel source and is not capable of producing a waiste. It is energy without mass. The most probable element of mass of the stones is neodyium and fits all discriptions refered to in the biblical text. For 6,000 years or more this symbol has identified a device for which the human spiecies has failed to understand. The discovery of the crystal magnetite in the sands of Egypt led to the reseach that resulted in understanding the key held in the Pharoes hand. The Egyptain cross is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end or full circle. The cross triangles are set in counter-rotation that impulse 44 times. 360 degrees divided bye 44 results in infinity/infinity or inf. over inf., as in 8.18181818. Pi is Greek and Pi is also an interpetation of Magnetite which gives it a noun usage and does not contridict the visual discription of the crystal which is an Octahedron. The 4 X 4 sided crystal is the pyramid times 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alternatively, the Star of David were a borrowing from more Eastern sources, after someone had managed to observe that Hexagram 1, "Heaven," in the I Ching resembled a pile of lumber. Some one with imagination could easily construct from those six lines (signifying unbroken energies) two compelling further symbols with equal future usages: the Star of David and the Swastika -- in occult attempts to "capture" or contain and "stabilize" Heaven itself. (talk) 17:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sidon - Find[edit]

Does anyone have a picture of the 7th century star of david found in Sidon? It would be good for this article.-- (talk) 11:19, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I was also curious about that first use of the star as an identety symbol (I think national is a word that definetly should be avoided before the eighteenth century BCE) by the Babilonian King inthe sixth century BCE. Does anyone have a link for that? Any other kind of source? Isn`t it weird that after being abandoned as an identety symbol for 25 centuries the same symbol would come back at the twentieth century? Wouldn`t we expect the Menorah to be used at the sixth century BCE? (talk) 16:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

History of the Star of David[edit]

“And YOU will certainly carry* Sak′kuth* YOUR king* and Kai′wan*, YOUR images, the star of YOUR god, whom YOU made for yourselves.” - Amos 5:26 (NWT)... (You in capital refers to second person plurals)


“So shall ye take up Siccuth your king and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.” (JPS tanakh, 1917)

  • Or, “you have carried.”
  • “Sakkuth.” Heb., Sik·kuth′. The name was purposely vocalized in Heb. to correspond to shiq·quts′, “disgusting thing.” It possibly refers to a star-god, for it is put in a parallelism with the “star of your god” in the same vs. LXXSy, “the tent”; Lat., ta·ber·na′cu·lum. (NWT footnote).
  • “Your king.” Heb., mal·kekhem′; Gr., Mo·lokh′; Syr., demal·kum; Lat., Mo′loch. (NWT footnote).
  • “Kaiwan.” Or, “Kewan.” Heb., Ki·yun′, vowel-pointed intentionally to correspond with shiq·quts′, “disgusting thing.” Evidently the Akkadian star Kai·ma′nu, or Kai·wa′nu, is meant, because this occurs in Akkadian inscriptions as the name for Saturn (a star-god). Gr., Rhai·phan′; in Ac 7:43 in Stephen’s quotation, Rhom·pha′. (NWT footnote).
  • “Your god.” Heb., ’elo·heh·khem′, referring to a false god. (NWT footnote).

“But it was the tent of Mo′loch and the star of the god Re′phan that YOU took up, the figures which YOU made to worship them. Consequently I will deport YOU beyond Babylon.’” - Acts 7:43 (NWT)...

Levitcus 20:2 ; Exodus 20:4; Psalms 115:8.

  • The Jewish virtual library says: "relatively new...symbol...permitted no images of Him, was & still is opposed to the acceptance of any symbols."
  • Jewish Encyclopedia: "sign on amulets."

See: Deuteronomy 18:9-11, Psalms 58:4.

  • The Jewish encyclopedia said it's connected to pentacles, used in worship the biblical God condemns. Used to call upon spirit forces, (see Genensis six) Pentacles have been even used to worship Satan himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The six pointed star in Hindu culture[edit]

The article has made a very detailed account of the six pointed star from the western culture and from the Jewish angle. One fact that has not even been touched upon is that it is a symbol common in hindu temples , both present and ancient. In fact even today you will find numerous temples in India where at the gates you will find the star on one side and the swastik on the other. Somewhere in the past India may have been a place where both these symbols meant something or represented something and may have been the origin point of both the symbols. Can wikipedia make that a point of some refined research —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I removed the section on Hindu use from the article, as it doesnt pertain to Jewish use. The content in full is below. Wikipedia editors may wish to transfer this information to one of the articles pertaining to the Hexagram or Hinduism. Haldrik (talk) 20:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As a Hinduist symbol
The Shatkona is a symbol used in Hindu yantra that represents the union of both the male and feminine form. More specifically it is supposed to represent Purusha (the supreme being), and Prakriti (mother nature, or causal matter). Often this is represented as Shiva - Shakti.[1] The Shatkona is a hexagram and looks exactly like the Star of David in Semitic lore. The Star of David is identical to the ancient emblem of Tamil deity, Murugan, also known as the deity with 'six aspects'.
Anahata: The Heart Chakra
Anahata, or Anahata-puri, or padma-sundara is related to the thymus, located in the chest. The thymus is an element of the immune system as well as being part of the endocrine system. It is the site of maturation of the T cells responsible for fending off disease and may be adversely affected by stress. Anahata is symbolised by a lotus flower with twelve petals. (See also heartmind). Anahata is related to the colours green or pink. Key issues involving Anahata involve complex emotions, compassion, tenderness, unconditional love, equilibrium, rejection and well-being. Physically Anahata governs circulation, emotionally it governs unconditional love for the self and others, mentally it governs passion, and spiritually it governs devotion.[2]


  1. ^ Iintroduction to Yantra
  2. ^ The Chakra Bible, Patricia Mercier, Octopus Publishing Group, 2007, p. 199

Improbable origins removed[edit]

I removed the following text:

The exact origins of the symbol's relation to Jewish identity are unknown, though several theories have been put forward. According to one hypothesis[citation needed], the Star of David comprises two of the three letters in the name David. In its Hebrew spelling (דוד), it contains only three characters, two of which are "D" (or "Dalet", in Hebrew). In the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet, the standard alphabet for writing Hebrew before the Babylonian captivity, this letter was written in a form much like a triangle, similar to the Greek letter Delta (Δ), with which it shares a sound and the same (4th) position in their respective alphabets, as it does with Latin. The symbol may have been a simple family crest formed by flipping and juxtaposing the two most prominent letters in the name.[original research?]

One belief is that the Star of David is the flattened view of a three dimensional tetrahedron, made up of two interlocking triangles.

Another belief is that the Star of David might resemble Israel's twelve tribes, with its six acute and six obtuse angles.

Yet another hypothesis is that the star was originally a six-petaled lily engraved on the shield of King David. The face of the lily seen from afar looked like a hexagonal star and came to represent David and his kingdom.

The above speculations are farfetched. If someone notable suggested any of them, they must have citations. Haldrik (talk) 19:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What is a "Swedish star"?[edit]

"In 1648, the Jews of Prague were again allowed a flag, in acknowledgment of their part in defending the city against the Swedes. On a red background was a yellow Shield of David, in the center of which was a Swedish star." says the text, with a reference to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But what is a Swedish star? / (talk) 13:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

looking for a prayer read at Yom Kipper[edit]

I am looking for a prayer read at Yom Kipper (or possibly Rosh Hashanah). It goes something like this G-D please mold me- like the clay in a potter's wheel -G-D please mold me- G-D please mold me- like the Gold in the smiths', crucible-G-D please mold me- G-D please mold me- like the wood in the carpenters’ hands -G-D please mold me- G-D please mold me- like the cloth in the Taylor’s hands -G-D please mold me- Etc; If you can either send “it” to me, or point me in the right direction, I would be most thankful. I am a recovered alcoholic, sober 27 years, through G-D's grace and AA. I take new comers through the 12 steps of AA so that they may find the Power to stay sober. AA's 3rd step "Made a decision to turn our lives and will to care of G-D......" is really well spelled out & illustrated by this prayer and I feel it could be a useful tool in helping people recover. May G-D bless you. Joel Minisquero My email is —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:09, 7 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

star of david[edit]

it's for the jews and on the isreal flag XD —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Edit request from Dberndtd, 27 September 2010[edit]

{{edit semi-protected}}

Please add under the History of the Shield of David the following relevant historical data at the correct cronological location in the article.

The "shield of David" as we currently know it appeared in Prague in 1354 when King Charles II granted the Jews of Prague the right to have their own flag (later called King David's flag) per Historian Gersham Scholem <ref> Biblical Archeology Review Sept-Oct 2010 issue, Quotes & Comments response by Steven Fine, Professor of Jewish History at Yeshiva University, NY, NY, USA)</ref> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dberndtd (talkcontribs) 01:34, 27 September 2010

Not done: Welcome and thanks for the content, but you need a better source. I think a "Quotes & Comments response" would fail as a self published source as there would be little or no editorial control of a response. Regards, Celestra (talk) 15:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Edit request from Fibroman, Recommending an addition to the Etymology of the Star of David[edit]

{{edit semi-protected}} The Etymology of the Star of David goes back to the time of Moses. When JHVH spoke directly to Israel via Moses he specifically addresses Israel regarding the star in which they carried with them throughout their forty years in the wilderness before coming into the land. In the TANAKH the Jewish Holy Scriptures we learn first about this star. Amos 5:26 "But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Later this star was called the star of David, representing the Kingdom which was and is promised Israel.

This Star was known through Epgyptologist to be a 6 pointed star and it's association with the planet Saturn which appeared in ancient Egyptian astronomical charts as early as 1534 BC we now know that it is not a star but a planet. It was this same star that prior to the reformation of Israel in 1948 was used to identify Jews in Germany. In 1948 Israel chose the Star now called the Star of David to be their national symbol as found on their flag.

The Error is that Israel is identifying themselves with a god other than JHVH. While this may seem true Israel is a secular nation and the flag is secular as well. Religiously Israel still claims it's Roots to the calling out from Egypt via Moses, when he introduced himself as JHVH, of which God further told them no one prior to the Red Sea crossing knew him by such a name. As found in Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JHVH was I not known to them.

There is no connection to JHVH and any other Babylonian or Canaanite god known as Yahu, Yavi or the current word being used by many Christians today YAHWEH. For JHVH God was not known before the Exodus, any likeness to any god prior to Israel or after is purely coincidental. There is no known star associated with their God JHVH. Od course a better symbol for Israel would have been a "burning Bush", a "passover lamb with blood coated door posts and mantle" or even perhaps the "parting of the Red Sea" but their choice to use the 6 pointed Hexigramical star was purely a choice and not necessarily their following another god.

While the etymology of the origin of the 6 pointed star can be traced back to Pre-Israel as far back as the Sumerian Empires may be true. There is no evidence the Star of David is linked to their God JHVH or their current religious practice. Again it reflects their choice by which to Identify themselves as a Nation and does not reflect on their religious identity with JHVH.

Fibroman (talk) 03:58, 8 October 2010 (UTC) please feel free to rewrite or edit the above additional information. This info was put together to defend Israel's use of the Star as a national symbol.Reply[reply]

I am not sure, are you suggesting the above text is inserted into the article as-is?
I think there is a misunderstanding. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Your text appears to be a quite different genre, something like an opinion piece. --dab (𒁳) 08:49, 9 October 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not done: As stated above, this is more of an essay, not encyclopedic content. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 13:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Association with the number seven and the Menorah[edit]

This is difficult to date, or at least the article so far doesn't deliver. We cite one author claiming the association is due to Isaac Luria. But then we have Gershom Scholem explicitly debunking this, saying that Luria was talking about two non-interlocking triangles. If Oegema (1996) is not aware of Scholem (1990) and presents reason as to why he rejects Scholem's argument, his statement should be discounted as naive repetition of the idea debunked by Scholem.

We are thus reduced to looking for the earliest known reference that makes the connection explicitly. The Naftali Silberberg article states "the Star contains seven compartments—six peaks protruding from a center", but doesn't cite a source, so it is just a primary (online) source, dated 2008. The article is aware that "M. Costa wrote that M. Gudemann and other researchers in the 1920s" made the connection, so we would seem to be able to track the idea to the 1920s (if we had a reference for "M. Costa", that is).

My expectation would be, however, that Luria's text would have been read as addressing the Star of David from at least the 18th century, when the sign became widespread as symbolizing Judaism. I.e. we seem to be lacking crucial information from the period 1700 to 1900. --dab (𒁳) 10:37, 9 October 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Non-Israeli Military Badges[edit]

The Royal Nepal Air Force, the 6th Infantry Division (United States)(de-activated), the 6th US Corps, at times Morocco... —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:48, 19 October 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

History section[edit]

Since Hexagram#Usage_by_Christians and Hexagram#Usage_by_Muslims show that the Star of David (specifically as a Star of David, not as a simple Hexagram) was also historically used by Christians and Muslims, should this not be integrated in to the history section? If anyone has RS which suggest at what point Christian and Muslim usage started to be phased out that would be an interesting additional point to add. Oncenawhile (talk) 18:08, 8 January 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Perspectives of two pyramids[edit]


  • Hexagram in normal position: Two pyramids symbolize sovereignty of Marduk. Sovereignty of the world and metaphysics sky.
  • Hexagram 45 grade inclined position: Double headed eagel can be illustrated only in this position correct. With pentagram is illustrated one headed eagel. Eagel is a chief symbol of Marduk.
  • Octagon: Four + four = octagon. Bases of two pyramids. Four symbolizes coverage area. Two bases of two pyramids symbolize the coverage area of the world and the metaphysics sky. A normal compass has chiefly eight arms. But a compass with detail shows 32 directions and some of compass have a name rose. (4, 8, 16, 32) [6] [7] A rose has 32 leaves too. And rose is a symbol of Ishtar like a pentagram.
[8] --Piramitdünya (talk) 16:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Edit request from Sharonitzhaki, 28 June 2011[edit]

To add At the first paragraph , after the following (because this Star of David feature is very important):

"The term "Shield of David" is also used in the Siddur (Jewish prayer book) as a title of the God of Israel."

The following text:

All Hebrew Alpha-Bet letters can be visually found in the shape of the star of David. The following image present the first Hebrew letter in the Star Of David symbol:


Sharonitzhaki (talk) 12:24, 28 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Reliable Source:

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. What appears to be a jewelry store I would not consider to be a reliable source to make this edit. Jnorton7558 (talk) 09:04, 29 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not the largest[edit]

Under the Miscellaneous section the article states, "The world's largest Star of David (167 metres (548 ft) diameter) is in the Smoky Hill Weapons Range, Kansas, USA at 38.717704°N 97.80673°W."

There is a hexagonal radio installation in Western Australia that about 200 times larger in area than this one. Harold Holt Naval Communications Station at 21° 49' S 114° 10' E.

Could you please correct the article by mentioning this radio array in coastal Western Australia? Much obliged. (talk) 07:06, 20 May 2012 (UTC) JamesonReply[reply]

First of all, that image looks nothing like a star of David. It looks like an airport, with runways. Secondly, it has nothing at all to do with my point about the radar array in Western Australia (Harold Holt Naval Communications Base). Thirdly, Just admit that my star of David is bigger than yours. Just be a man, not a disinformation agent/troll.

Much Obliged, (talk) 05:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC) JamesonReply[reply]

Can you please provide a reliable source verify what you are claiming? Then your information can be added to the article. Thanks, Jenks24 (talk) 04:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • "There is a hexagonal radio installation in Western Australia ...": what latitude and longitude, or direction and distance from a named place? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. When you have provided a source, just change the {{{answered}}} parameter in {{editsemiprotected}} from yes to no, which will reactivate the template. elektrikSHOOS (talk) 23:56, 25 May 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sure. It is the Harold Hold Naval Communications Base, located "6 kilometers north of Exmouth", in Western Australia. GEO coords: 21° 49' S 114° 10' E.

Let me know if you need to see an arial image. The images included in the wikipedia page don't show that it is clearly a star of David. (talk) 00:48, 30 May 2012 (UTC) JamesonReply[reply]

Hello, I noticed that this requested edit was changed to "answered" even though the change I requested for this article has not been made. The article incorrectly claims that "The world's largest Star of David (167 metres (548 ft) diameter) is in the Smoky Hill Weapons Range, Kansas." However, the Star of David at Exmouth, Western Australia is 2,500 meters in diameter. Please take a look at this image:

Please make the requested change, or tell me what you need. Thanks, (talk) 09:08, 1 June 2012 (UTC) JamesonReply[reply]


Wow. Evidently touched a nerve. Sorry! Ok, I guess that image I shared was not a good enough source, so I am including the following. Please tell me whether these sources are reliable enough.

First, I have the following link to the geo-location in Google Maps.,114.168849&spn=0.02275,0.042272&t=h&z=15

This imagery is marked as being owned by Cnes/Spot, DigitalGlobe, GeoEye.

Here are some online sources I found about this installation:

The Geomantic Hexagons: Very Large Array, Exmouth, Australia

Exmouth – “Star of David” Geometry

Star of David HAARP

The following link is to a youtube video which utilized Google Earth imagery to show the Star of David configuration of the Exmouth facility (it is visible on Google Earth):

Please let me know if these sources are not good enough so that I can continue to improve the quality of my sources. Thank you. I bid you a very pleasant evening. (talk) 06:54, 2 June 2012 (UTC) JamesonReply[reply]

My comments on the sources -
1. fine
2. NONONONO!!!!! blogs are not acceptible
3. looks reliable
4. may fail under WP:RS
However none mention the size, so... Not done: Mdann52 (talk) 15:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello, thank you for the comments on my source quality. I was unclear on the guidelines for what constituted a reliable source for inclusion in Wikipedia.

Ok, so I take it from your comments that I have established the fact that this radio array is configured in the geometry of a Star of David. I also take it that I need to furnish a source for the size of the array in order for my change to be included in the article.

I have a reliable source for the size of the array which is an Australian government site. This page states:

"The web of the antenna measures some 2.4 kilometres in diameter in what has been described as a top hat array."

If this source for the size of the array is acceptable, could you please make the change I am requesting. Namely, that the Smoky Hills bombing/artillery range pattern is not the largest Star of David on the planet, and a recognition that the Star of David which is formed by this radio installation is 2.4 kilometers in diameter, and therefore likely the largest Star of David in the world.

Thank you for your patience as I furnish acceptable sources to document my change. (talk) 17:04, 2 June 2012 (UTC) JamesonReply[reply]

Done Thanks for your patience, Mdann52 (talk) 15:23, 5 June 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Edit request on 11 July 2012[edit]

The coordinate of the star in Exmouth Australia is wrong. It should be -21.6,114.16. (talk) 15:44, 11 July 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ryan Vesey Review me! 16:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cosmic Control[edit]

Pyramid (upper) Pyramid (bottom) Two pyramids (nested)
Front-view V (shaped) A (shaped) Hexagon Hexagonal structure
Bird's eye-view Square (straight) Square (diagonal) Octagonal star - Star of Lakshmi Octagonal structure [9]
Bird's eye-view + Cross Square + Cross (straight) - Swastika Square + Cross (diagonal) - Swastika

Base of a pyramid + Cross = Swastika

Pyramids are the symbols of a cosmic control. [10] [11] [12] [13] --AltıncıTas (talk) 13:50, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Orphaned references in Star of David[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Star of David's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ynetnews1":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 16:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Graphics size and position[edit]

I've moved the picture of the hexagram at Humayuns tomb up and reduced it in size so that it doesn't overlap into the next section. Although it is placed above the header, it appears next to the text under the header so it is not ruining the format. I moved the picture of the athlete wearing the Magen David next to the section on athletes; it is positioned most closely to the section to which it refers that way. I also adjusted the size of the yellow star and the Israeli flag to the same size, so that both are neatly within the sections to which they refer and so that the uniform appearance provides balance asthere is no reason why one of these graphics should be larger than the other from a design perspective. -- Chefallen (talk) 02:24, 10 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It ruins the presentation on my computer screen. And, as previously noted, is against MOS. See WP:MOSIM ("Each image should ... not [be] immediately above the section heading.").
Similarly, thumb is the default size. And the long-standing size here. There is absolutely no good reason for you as a later user to demand a format change to an unorthodox 125px size, and edit war over it. If you wish all to be the same size, make them all the thumb size, which is the default size.--Epeefleche (talk) 03:42, 10 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Firstly, I'm not edit warring, I'm trying to make an improvement and get consenus for it. Secondly, since when can a so-called "later user" not make or suggest a change? Please review WP:OWN. Finally, if MOS requires that the graphic be under the heading, I'll go with that. However, just because thumb is the default size and long-standing in the article doesn't mean that it is best. Given the amount of text that is in each section at present, it looks better graphically for those graphics to be custom-sized. -- Chefallen (talk) 15:17, 10 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Furthermore, the ellipsis indicating the part you omitted from your citation from WP:MOSIM above states that "Each image should be inside the major section to which it relates (within the section defined by the most recent level 2 heading or at the top of the lead)... " which is what my proposed changes achieve. -- Chefallen (talk) 15:29, 10 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Actually, you are edit-warring. Over format. That was in the article for an extended period of time. Against MOS. You didn't just revert, and then discuss. You continued to revert. That's the edit warring part. When it comes to formats that are equally acceptable (and this isn't even the case -- your approach is in violation of MOS, as was pointed out to you with the very first revert and later as well), it is the long-standing approach that we retain -- see, for example, what we do when there are two acceptable formats for a date. That has nothing to do with ownership -- that's how we avoid tendentious editors eating up the time of others with edit wars over such matters. And on my screen, the default size is certainly the best, and no reason was tendered by you (other than ILIKEIT) to bring it down to the tiny size you subjectively prefer. My feeling are the complete opposite -- it looks better as it was, it is the default size (we pick as default sizes those that are best, generally), and it was long-standing. And MOS requires that images not be immediately preceding the heading, and it does so because that breaks up the header, and the presentation. And I pointed you to MOS early on, and you continued to revert .. the edit warring that I point to. The part I deleted from MOS was less relevant -- it just related to the image being in an appropriate section -- I'm happy with that. But it can't be at the bottom of an appropriate section, just before a header, for the above reasons.--Epeefleche (talk) 16:07, 10 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Your accusations are false and appear to me to be for the purpose of intimidation and bullying to get your way rather than to seriously engage in discussion about what is best here. Look at the page history where it is clear that I first made a change in good faith and your reverted it, without referring to MOS in your comment. I then reverted once, and put a comment on the Talk page to explain my changes. You've reverted again (twice, as opposed to my once, until now). You also reverted my other edits in addition to the graphic above the header without a valid explanation.
Secondly, I agreed after you cited the MOS to leave the graphic under the heading. You did not explain the first time that you reverted that it was in accordance with MOS – again look at your first revert comment – clearly I did not revert willfully in violation of a MOS guideline. So, don't try and intimidate me with a false accusation of edit warring or insinuations that I am editing tendentiously or according to a personal preference or that will be construed as bullying.
Finaly, I’m not reducing the graphic to a "tiny" size; it's the same size as other graphics in the article – the Leningrad Codex and the Yellow Badge graphic are both already custom sized to 125px (not by me). Besides moving one graphic above a heading, the other changes I made are supported by the MOS: “Each image should be inside the major section to which it relates … not immediately above the section heading.” I’m therefore redoing those edits in compliance with this guideline. If you revert again (a third time – you will clearly be edit warring) and I will refer this matter to ANI. -- Chefallen (talk) 15:40, 11 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

distinguish name from shape[edit]

Both the name "Magen Dawid" and the hexagram shape existed in Judaism since at least the 12th century. However, they were not equated before the 17th. So please be careful to not just use "Shield of David" when you actually mean "a hexagram shape" in historical context. Actually, we kind of know they were distinct, as the 16th century flags are described as containing a Shield of David *and* a Seal of Solomon, and the hexagram shape up to this time was identified with the latter. At some point between the 16th and 17th century, presumably because the two symbols were placed alongside, it would seem they were mixed up and "Magen Dawid" now began to be used for the symbol formerly known as the Seal of Solomon, viz. the hexagram. --dab (𒁳) 18:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

screaming blue?[edit]

I commented on the extreme blue color of the star here. Thoughts? – JBarta (talk) 23:49, 16 November 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Qalawun complex[edit]

Qalawun complex.jpg

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahmedsalah30 (talkcontribs) 22:27, 23 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2016[edit]

Please change Biblical Hebrew Māḡēn Dāwīḏ [maːˈɣeːn daːˈwiːð], Tiberian [mɔˈɣen dɔˈvið] to Tiberian Māḡēn Dāwīḏ [mɔˈɣen dɔˈwið] because 1) Biblical Hebrew has a large temporal span and does not refer to a particular phonology, 2) Tiberian pronunciation of letter vav is [w] not [v] (see, and 3) the romanization Māḡēn Dāwīḏ is according to Masoretic tradition which reflects Tiberian phonology.

Phjong (talk) 14:45, 6 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done provide sources pls Varun  16:57, 9 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Star of Hamburg[edit]

they are one and the same, not only in shape but what it represents - strength and self-restraint

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2017[edit]

I believe there is an incorrect use of the As Of template which is causing the page to appear in the cleanup category under Category:Articles_containing_potentially_dated_statements. It's found in footnote reference #31 where it says "As of September 19, 1941". Since it's referencing a historical date the policy went into force, it's not something that is going to become stale dated. AllTheDaveNamesAreAlreadyTaken (talk) 21:00, 17 February 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Done Using the template to mark a historical date that will not change is probably incorrect. Gulumeemee (talk) 03:14, 18 February 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2017[edit]

Add the following to miscellaneous

The architecture of the international airport in Cologne, Germany incorporates two ✡︎ in buildings.

Add aerial view to gallery Skorpicore (talk) 17:15, 12 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I see from the image that there are hexagrams involved, but note that this article is specifically about "the use of the hexagram as a Jewish symbol". Therefore, we need a reliable source that says the Cologne airport's hexagrams were intended as such, not simply evocative of Stars of David for some of us who view them. RivertorchFIREWATER 17:03, 21 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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"Hexagram" or "Pentagram" ?[edit]

Hi, strange as the article says "A PENTAGRAM IN THIS FORM is found on the ancient synagogue at Tell Hum."

Unclear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:02, 24 May 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Indeed. I've changed "pentagram" to "hexagram", but if there is actually a pentagram, then its mention should be removed from the article altogether. --Deinocheirus (talk) 19:34, 25 May 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hexagram seen at Nabi Samuil[edit]


at 1:44 in this video. Has to be checked, because the picture looks hard to find online. Once found up, we could add this item in the description of early use. The supposition of decorative early use is unlikely, as it looks like the symbol was used at least twice on synagogues' arches. Jewish tradition includes semantic allusions in symbols most of the time, especially in cult places. At ancient eras, judaica art wasn't yet existing. So the beginning of the article lacks of depth in analyzis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hexagram seen at Nabi Samuil[edit]


at 1:44 in this video. Has to be checked, because the picture looks hard to find online. Once found up, we could add this item in the description of early use. The supposition of decorative early use is unlikely, as it looks like the symbol was used at least twice on synagogues' arches. Jewish tradition includes semantic allusions in symbols most of the time, especially in cult places. At ancient eras, judaica art wasn't yet existing. So the beginning of the article lacks of depth in analyzis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:13, 24 May 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]


The Star of David is an old symbol which was called by another name before being named the above name and it represents the European nations as a connected body each of the points of the star representing major water port cities along the Mediterranean, west Europe, and north Europe route. -Inowen (nlfte) 01:02, 27 June 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Inowen: Lovely; but for anyone here to do anything with this information, we will need a published, reliable source that makes this claim to cite with the content. Do you know of one? General Ization Talk 21:20, 6 July 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]


According to a document in Spanish: '¿Estrella de David? ¡No!: estrella del ídolo egipcio Renfan', (David's Star? No!: Star of Egyptian idol Renfan), accessible in: 'Simjat-Torah' site, the hexagram, right name for this star, is the symbol a group of hebrew put in a flag and paraded after it during Exodus, with the result of Moshes slit throat of 500 of them.

One of the reasons the first Christian Martyr, saint Stephen, was lapidated, is stated as he reminded hebrew of the nature of this star. One of these hexagrams was found in the remains of a first century Synagogue in Capernaum. For Jean Riviere: 'Amulets, talismans, pentacles', this star is a variant svastika, having connections to Siberian shamanism and solar cults, it's still known today in Asia. Classical svastikas existed as ornaments in the last Temple of Jerusalem ('El fértil creciente y la Biblia' -The fertile crescent and the Bible-, by Joaquín González-Echegaray ISBN 9788471516985).

Also, some indicate the hexagram is connected to Saturn cult, Chronos for the Greek, many times depicted as a bearded old man, being possibly identical to Moloch, the idol of Amalek. ('Dictionary of symbols'-Penguin-, J Chevalier, A Gheerbrant; ISBN-13: 978-0140512540; 'How To Read Symbols', Clare Gibson. ISBN: 9781408112656).

Little doubt this is a 'jinx' symbol. Agur. Gesund +

Semi-protected edit request on 6 March 2020[edit]

hoi ik woon in amsterdam

Early use by Jewish printers[edit]

The book דגלי המדפסים היהודים by Abraham Yaari (1944) brings several examples of Hexagrams used by early Jewish printers. The earliest one is the seal of Brothers David and Samuel Ibn Nahmias of Constantinopol, dated 1493. He also provides a copy of the siddur already mentioned in the article. Another example from 1551-1559.-- (talk) 00:25, 19 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fruit shaped like the Star of David[edit]

I found a star fruit which usually shaped like a star, but this one looks like the Star of David. Dr. Weir-Thompson (talk) 12:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Describe David's shield and Solomon's seal[edit]

"In 1354, King of Bohemia Charles IV prescribed for the Jews of Prague a red flag with both David's shield and Solomon's seal, while the red flag with which the Jews met King Matthias of Hungary in the 15th century showed two pentagrams with two golden stars."

David's shield and Solomon's seal: how did they look like?Both looking the same, as mentioned as an option further up? That would correlate with the 16th c. flag, but is it so? Arminden (talk) 10:17, 6 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Muslims used "Solomon's seal" more liberally, also for 5-pointed polygons (or even more varied shapes?), maybe that's what it was alluded here to, but maybe not. Arminden (talk) 08:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Star of David/Magen David is 6-sided/pointed with 7 polygons[edit]

MODERATOR: Star of David/Magen David is 6-sided/pointed with 7 polygons. The #7 is associated with GOD in the Bible. 2601:589:4801:5660:3023:384D:BBF8:E280 (talk) 14:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2021[edit]

In the line "By the end of the First World War, it had become an internatioanlly accepted symbol for the Jewish people, being used on the gravestones of fallen Jewish soldiers." In the main section, please change "internatioanlly" to "internationally" as its a misspelling. Jianxiaorong (talk) 23:58, 12 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Done ClaudineChionh (talkcontribs) 00:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 8 March 2022[edit]

This text below has a typo in the 1st paragraph under the "from non-Jewish to Jewish usage". The word "motive" should be "motif".

The hexagram, being an inherently simple geometric construction, has been used in various motifs throughout human history, which were not exclusively religious. It appeared as a decorative motive in both 4th-century synagogues and Christian churches in the Galilee region. Brittonrs26 (talk) 02:16, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Done Cannolis (talk) 02:21, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Branch Davidians[edit]

The flag of the Branch Davidians sect† incorporates this symbol. Perhaps some reference should be added? Thanks.--Surv1v4l1st TalkContribs 02:48, 10 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Flag of the Branch Davidians.svg

Please add[edit]

.. as the last paragraph under Use in Sports ...

NFL player Jerry Jeudy wears a Star of David necklace, even though he is not Jewish.[1][2] His reason is that due to his surname being "Jeudy," people sometimes call him simply the first syllable -- "Jew"; so he got the necklace.[1][2] 2603:7000:2143:8500:20CE:C2EE:BCCA:7F9E (talk) 03:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Reference #8 hotlink is dead, and needs to be changed. The source has its own link to the article here: (talk) 18:33, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]