Talk:Second Seminole War

Untitled

This article has been split off from Seminole Wars because of size considerations. It needs cleaning up, and more can be added to it about the campaigns. Splitting of some the campaigns off to their own articles may be necessary. -- Donald Albury 13:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Dalton Georgia

This article claims that Dalton Georgia was named after a mail man, but the Dalton Georgia article states it was named after a General. That article has sources and this does not. Does anyone know who Dalton Georgia was named after? 98.114.224.10 (talk) Chezzo Osman

Worrisome slaves

Wikipedia contains numerous articles in which people claim that Caucasians were "worried" about a slave revolt. Why is that untrue and deceitful statement being employed in Wikipedia? GhostofSuperslum 13:30, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Because it is verifiable from many reliable sources. -- Donald Albury 14:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

George Washington owned more than one hundred slaves. He was not "worried" about a slave revolt. He believed the opposite. He was "worried" that slavery would end and that he would have a large plantation with no workers on it to help him grow crops. Thousands of slaveowners were "worried" that slavery would end. Slavery was the best thing that had ever happened to them. They weren't "worried" about a slave revolt. They were buying slaves by the dozens. GhostofSuperslum 04:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Dade Massacre

Someone renamed the article Dade Massacre to Dade Battle. Maybe it should get moved back. -- SEWilco (talk) 04:52, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I just did, and stated my reason on that talk page. It's the term John Mahon uses in History of the Second Seminole War. -- Donald Albury 11:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Joseph Johnson

The article currently contains a link to Joseph Johnson which is a dab-page. The only person on that page who appears to be potentially the right target is Joseph Johnson (Virginia politician). Can someone with knowledge of this battle correct the wikilink to the proper target? If there is currently no Wikipedia article for the correct person, either make it into a redlink (if it is a person that could potentially be notable enough for a Wikipedia article), or remove the wikilink (if the person probably isn't). Thanks. -Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 08:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I won't have access to the books I used as sources until next week. I'll check then to see who was intended. -- Donald Albury 12:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Submitted content

An anonymous contributor has submitted what seems to be some quality material about this war. Maybe some of it can be incorporated. It can be found at Articles for creation/Submissions/the black seminole slave rebellion. Martin 14:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Leaders/commanders

I changed the list of US leaders to include only those officers in command of US forces in the war. I also included the dates they were in command, but that is not critical. The list of Seminole leaders is more of a problem. There were no overall commanders or leaders on the Seminole side; there was never anything like a unified command, and there were a great number of independent bands in Florida at the beginning of the war, and three or four independent bands even at the end of the war in 1842. John Mahon's History of the Second Seminole War: 1835-1842, which remains the most comprehensive history of the war, lists more than 65 names of Seminole and black chiefs, warriors, interpreters, etc. in the index. So, what criteria should we use to choose which leaders are important enough to be included in the template? I propose for now that we not include any Seminole leaders for whom no Wikipedia article has been written. I am now going to search to see who does have an article. -- Donald Albury 23:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and limited the list of Seminole leaders in the head template to those with articles in WP. I think that Alligator (Halpatter Tustenuggee), Chakaika, Jumper (Ote Emathla), Phillip (Emathla) and Tiger Tail (Thlocklo Tusteneggee), among others, are candidates for that list, but a brief search for material on Alligator and Jumper didn't turn up much that could be used in writing articles about them. There is also something to be said for keeping the list fairly short, even if that does not reflect the decentralized nature of Seminole leadership. -- Donald Albury 13:18, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

US Victory?

@User:Billmckern: OK; no editing war. But first I am going to change the figure 300 left, to 3,136 left in the Everglades, since that is what's said in the article itself.

• Before we can agree on an text, we must agree on what the US goal for the war was. Only then can we determine if it was a US victory. You know my opinion; it was a war of ethnic cleansing that failed. Luke (talk) 21:13, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
• While waiting for your arguments, I have amused myself with checking other language versions of this article:
  • French: "The Seminoles are allowed to stay in South Florida."
  • Russian and Ukraine: "3800 Seminole transported to Indian Territory, 300 remained in the Everglades."
  • Italian: "Net American victory. 3800 Seminole are transferred to Indian territory; 300 are left in the Everglades." Luke (talk) 16:44, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I've been thinking of reverting to the edit that stipulates the house of representatives offering a place within. I know John Mahon and tried to read his book on the War of 1812... Very biased which doesn't mention the British tribesmen very much, to not at all... Check it for yourself. Anyway, Pierre Berton's book is gold standard so I'll be checking that site as well.

The Second Seminole War (1835–42) followed the refusal of most Seminoles to abandon the reservation that had been specifically established for them north of Lake Okeechobee and to relocate west of the Mississippi River. Whites coveted this land and sought to oust the Seminoles under the Indian Removal Act. Led by their dynamic chief Osceola, the Seminole warriors hid their families in the Everglades and fought vigorously to defend their homeland, using guerrilla tactics. As many as 2,000 U.S. soldiers were killed in this prolonged fighting, which cost the government between $40,000,000 and $60,000,000. Only after Osceola’s capture while parleying under a flag of truce did Indian resistance decline. With peace, most Seminoles agreed to emigrate. The Third Seminole War (1855–58) resulted from renewed efforts to track down the Seminole remnant remaining in Florida. It caused little bloodshed and ended with the United States paying the most resistant band of refugees to go West.

It's mostly made by a U.S. army official.

I think this is a philosophical issue rather than numbers of dead or territory lost/gained. We see with the impending references below that the U.S. war department saw this as a pyrrhic victory as much as any commander can win a strategic gamble that decides the fate of a nation, but fail at politik. We experience this in the Iroquois Confederacy when tobacco and guns sales impede the representation of social trends.

Photobucket: Dictionary of Wars.

Dictionary of Wars.

Pierre Berton.

https://wiki.alquds.edu/?query=Special:Contributions/24.164.49.40 has two contributions in the Seminole Wars but it might be a cross account like mine because I haven't logged in.

State-funded library. The link doesn't work go to the timeline at the bottom after the 'Seminole' redirection. It's about the House of Representatives granting a seat to the Seminoles. There were many debates about Andrew Jackson's methods during the wars, but I'll leave that be. In the end, it seems they wanted to pay them and bury the hatchet than simply winning, so maybe a military stalemate like that of Pontiac's Rebellion of he British. What ya'll think? Probably going to edit later next month and hope for a discussion first. 208.96.66.213 (talk) 23:41, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't think the author understands the concept of Force. Like, if you have an applied force or resultant force. I made the article some 5 years ago with the result: "Military Stalemate." [supported by 2 references of known prestige] 24.235.46.183 (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2020 (UTC)