Talk:Niños Héroes

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Untitled[edit]

The story is quite real, and it's not leftist or anti-American propaganda. Heroism isn't confined to the United States, nor is it confined only to the winning side in a war. They gave their life defending their nation's capital from a foreign invader; that is a heroic act even if the foreign invader was the USA. user:Jsc1973

I never knew of the Ninos Heroes, but they truely deserve respect. I am not Mexican nor American but true heroism is the same in any nationaly. Yongke 14:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand that part at the end of the first paragraph that doubts the veracity of the story...

Indeed, wasn't Ernesto Zedillo fired as Education Secretariat for angering the Mexican Army by proving that the Niños heroes did not exist? Hari Seldon 08:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IT WAS 12 KIDS IN TOTAL N THEY ALL FOUGHT! THE LAST 3 WRAPED THEM SELF WITH THE MEXICA FLAN N JUMPED —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.233.88.231 (talk) 17:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


The historian Alejandro Rosasnos, offers an explanation that refers to the myth of these children. According to him, "many stories were exaggerated", other stories were distorted. Undoubtedly, Juan Escutia, along with Francisco Márquez, Juan de la Barrera, Vicente Suárez, Fernando Montes de Oca and Agustín Melgar, are "heroes" for the mere fact of staying to defend the castle. The facts are, that for example, Juan Escutia, never sacrificed for the national flag, but fell down together with Francisco Márquez and Fernando Montes de Oca when they tried to go to the Botanical Garden. Scientists have never proven to whom those skulls belong to, however, this acquired a character of legend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosie1234rc (talk • contribs) 01:47, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Child labour?[edit]

Does this really belong in the Child labour catagory? To me it seems to have little with actual "labor," per se. Perhaps in Military use of children, but I'm not even sure if that's a good fit as it would open the door to the general topic for specific incidents like West Point cadets killed during the US Civil War and such.

Thoughts?

--KNHaw 22:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Given that Chapultepec Castle was the seat of the Military Academy at the time of the battle, this event has a lot to do with being in the wrong place at the wrong time and little with actively recruiting children for war. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 09:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good enough. Looks like User:Matthew_Husdon already yanked it from Child Labour. I won't move it to Military use of children, either.


This article reflects Mexican government stories rather than Mexican History[edit]

This episode of the Mexican-American war is heavily manipulated by the mexican government during the 1940's. It does a great disservice to those who fought, bled and died in the battlefields of Mexico City.

Firstly, by standards of the time they were hardly children, two of them were between 14 and 16 years of age, the rest between 18 and 20.

No one wrapped himself in the flag to avoid its capture (this is the first disservice). As a soldier, it makes no sense to commit suicide as that would ensure the flag's capture, a cadet or soldier of ANY army would fight to the death. In reality, Americans captured the flag (it was returned during president Lopez Portillo term) and the blood stained flag that was historically displayed as the "leaping" flag was a flag from a different regiment; Margarito Zuazo bled on that flag in the "Molino del Rey" battle a couple of days earlier trying to avoid its capture... he succeeded as he did not commit suicide, but died that afternoon from his wounds... but the Miguel Aleman government, indignantly, felt the "boy leaping from the tower" story was better and erased him from history and made the other story up to inflame patriotism.

The alleged flag wrapped leaping 14-16 year old "Cadet" Escutia, cadet in quotes because he had not been admitted to the school yet as he had arrived days earlier on instructions of his cavalry captain step-dad who surely thought his step-son would have a better career if he fought gallantly in this "opportunity", the young would-be cadet did perform gallantly (no jumping tho) and heroically sacrificed his young life fighting for school and country alongside cadets Marquez and Montes de Oca when the three were overwhelmed by American troops and were trying to fall back to the school's botanical garden where they knew they would find reinforcements and ammo. "official" history lists the six fallen as the only school combatants on the mexican side, in reality about 50 cadets stayed behind to fight, with a result of 6 KIA, about 4 or 5 wounded (including Miguel_Miramón, who is also erased from official history of the event as he fought for Maximilian I in the Reform war against Benito Juarez, it would be unseemly to have a "boy hero" who fought against Juarez and for monarchy) and the rest taken prisoner.

This information and can be found on the "Mexico a traves de los siglos" encyclopedia by Vicente Riva Palacio which was written some 20- 30 years after the event and is very well documented. Hope someone does some REAL research away from mexican official schoolbooks.

[1]

Best -- Amendezg (talk) 22:13, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By the way...

The article says:

"Juan Escutia was born in Tepic (today's capital of the state of Nayarit) at some time between 1828 and 1832. Records show he was admitted to the Academy as a cadet on 8 September 1847, but his other papers were lost during the assault. He is believed to have been a second lieutenant in an artillery company."

If he was admitted on September 8 (the "rest" of his papers [conveniently] lost) and he fought and died five days later. That is one meteoric almost 5 day military career from cadet to "second lieutenant in an artillery company" (yet died in the castle "jumping from a tower" and NOT commanding an artillery battery on the field).

Amendezg (talk) 23:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ninos Heroes[edit]

How about more information on the monument itself? When was it built? Was this the original monument or was there a more modest one before it?

And is there information on the US National Cemetary that is also in Mexico City that holds a mass grave of unknown US soldiers that died during the Invasion of Mexico?

-LKE

Coin[edit]

File:Mexico 2006 circulating coins.jpg
Mexican coins.

From the article:

For many years they appeared on the MXP $5000 banknote, and they currently appear on the MXN $50 coin.

Um, there's a $50 peso coin? Um... As far as I've seen, Mexico's largest coin is the $20 peso coin, which is extremely rare to find in circulation, the largest in common use being the $10 peso coin. A Mexican friend advised me that there are $20 and $100 peso collectible coins, but no $50 peso coins. - Eric (talk) 07:58, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

During the 80's and early 90's there was a large $50 pesos coin in circulation, with the cadets image on one side. Surely that's the one meant in the article.

Amendezg (talk) 22:23, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Truman's visit[edit]

Hello! I have done a little clean-up and reorganization of this article, notably about the former banknote, though I haven't added information mentioned above on the old coin.

The final paragraph of History would fit better in Memorials, but it's confusing. The first sentence says, "The bodies of the 20 youths were buried on the grounds of France." Which 20 youths? Not the six notorious ones. Does this mean that 20 of the fallen cadets were taken to France and buried there? President Truman's honor of the cadets in 1947 was apparently at a monument that existed before the one described in Memorials. The final sentence of History duplicates the information given in Memorials. Spike-from-NH (talk) 02:49, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. I have addressed the above issues. I omitted the 20 bodies buried in France, using the Edit Summary to invite anyone to restore it but add a citation.

The footnote on María Herrera-Sobek is still in the article, but Google Books does not show me the text of that page. The search result refers to a 2009 publication of INEHRM, which used to be cited in the following footnote, but the link is now dead, even through archive.org. I have joined these footnotes and explained the situation. If this explanation is unsatisfactory, I hope another reader can provide more specifics. Spike-from-NH (talk) 23:16, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

PS--'Bot found the reference and fixed the link; I removed my text in the footnote that the reference was unavailable. Spike-from-NH (talk) 16:14, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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