Talk:Memories of Murder

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300,000 police?[edit]

I think that's stretching the bounds of credibility... the link for it didn't work for me. I think we should find a new source.--ThreeAnswers 03:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think that means a total of 300,000 days of man-hour. It's how some investigations are reported in Japanese media and South Korean media often report using the same style. --Revth (talk) 06:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Dispute over including the reaction of Lee Choon-jae to the movie[edit]

@Drmies Recently, you removed an entry on the reaction of the real-life inspiration to this film, and your reasoning provided as to why said entry is irrelevant was: "salacious material unrelated to the movie, content sourced to social media focused on celeb trivia, and inappropriate for a BLP matter even if indirectly: the victims have family still. in short, his opinions about the move are utterly irrelevant."

Prior precedent exists for the reactions of biopic figures, including those who have committed heinous crimes, to be featured on their article. To list a few:

The Wolf of Wall Street has an entire section dedicated to Jordan Belfort's reaction, in addition to that of Nadine Maculoso, who was a victim of domestic violence at his hands.

Goodfellas mentions the reaction of Henry Hill, a mobster who murdered dozens of Mafia enemies: "The cast did not meet Henry Hill until a few weeks before the film's premiere. Liotta met him in an undisclosed city; Hill had seen the film and told the actor that he loved it."

The Social Network mentions Zuckerbergs' negative reaction to the film.

American Gangster also has an entire section dedicated to Frank Lucas's reaction.

The sourcing of the quote can be improved- a cursory search quickly resulted in more sources.

Given that this film is directly inspired (to a metafictional level as the final shot is Park staring into the camera, as if the viewer himself might be the killer) by the chain of events by Lee Choon-jae, I argue it is very relevant for the article, even if he did not have much to say. The neutral, muted reaction by Lee to the film which directly addresses his crimes adds meaning to reader's understanding of both the real-life case and the film- it means that the final scene was indeed acknowledged by its intended recipient and met with no reaction.

Not to mention that although Lee does fall under BLP, the idea that such details shouldn't be included out of respect for the families is odd- why would either this article, on a film that turns the murders into fiction, or the article on his crimes be on this wiki? I think WP:NOTCENSORED applies in this case.

I won't be re-adding the detail until a third opinion/consensus can be met, but I hope this explains my case as to why it merits inclusion.

HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 01:59, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • NOTCENSORED is overused. There's a huge difference, though, with the films you mention: this isn't a biopic in any sense, since he wasn't identified until 16 years later. Lee thus doesn't exist in the movie, and that reading his reaction, I don't know how that adds to an understanding of him since, well, he isn't in the movie. The movie isn't about him. (And none of the movies you mention compare, in the sense that none of them are about a slew of real, recent killings where the families are still around.) That the final scene was "acknowledged" etc, that is your conclusion: it's a fine interpretation, but it's OR (and following your reading, any conclusion the viewer would draw would be about themselves). As for the BLP, I couldn't care less about a convicted murderer; it's the victims' families that are, IMO affected by the BLP. I really don't want to make too fine a point of this and get into a fight over what all the BLP covers: I think it's just profoundly tasteless, and yes, that sourcing, that's just absolutely minimal--the article you linked is basically the same thing as the other two and suggests that this really is just a little news item, which likely would have long disappeared had it not been for us eternalizing it here. So to me this just looks like a redundant detail of little relevance, and likely to hurt living people. Drmies (talk) 15:53, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RFC: Should Lee Choon-jae's reaction to the film be included in this article?[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should the serial killer who directly inspired Memories of Murder, Lee Choon-jae be mentioned in the article as having seen the film and had "no reaction"? HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 23:44, 9 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A few months ago I added the reaction of Lee Choon-jae, the serial killer who directly inspired this film, to this article. Given that he had actually seen the film which is based off him (even if it is a fictionalized version, it is clear that this film would not have been made without the cultural context of his actions), I believe it is not only an interesting fact for the reader but important in an encyclopedic sense to include. However, it has been removed for the argument that 1. the film isn't really about him since he is not seen or depicted, and 2. it would hurt living people and is offensive to include in the article, even if it is sourced. While I do believe that this is insufficient reason for not including it in the article, I am willing to get more opinions on whether or not this should be included. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 00:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No. The fact that he had "no reaction" automatically makes it unencyclopedic noise. Reason no. 1 above is also pertinent, though no. 2 is not (WP:NOTCENSORED). Lots and lots of books and films and TV shows are based on true-crime, but we do not include "reaction" stuff from those who inspired them. There's a WP:DENY element here too, taken a logical step further: deny positive attention to wrong-doers so as not to contribute to the inspiration for more wrong-doing.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  01:19, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes. It is information surrounding the wider context of the film that would be of interest to the reader. Including it in the real life case section of this article makes sense as it links the section more to the main article. Timceharris (talk) 00:55, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No. It won't improve the article. While I disagree with User:SMcCandlish and see no compelling reason to exclude... and while it might be a point of interest, that point is so minor it's simply not worth including. Lukewarmbeer (talk) 07:29, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Soft no. I'm open to the idea, but as is, I question the notability of this potential bit of WP:TRIVIA. Find a handful of reputable sources that took note of Lee Choon-jae's non-reaction, and then it becomes part of the overall dialectic. Penguino35 (talk) 19:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment. What do your sources say about the non-reaction? Senorangel (talk) 23:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The source I used has this as his reaction:
""I just watched it as a movie; I had no feeling or emotion towards the movie."
As for the replies slated on this thread- I do find that the fact that he had seen the movie and had no reaction encyclopedic in itself- my personal opinion is that seeing a re-enactment of murders you committed and having no response means as much as having a rageful, regretful, or glad emotional response. It speaks to him as a person and how how he processes the world- even if we morally shouldn't give him attention. However, I do understanding the sources are scarce and I'll have to look for more in Korean if we are to include so.
HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 14:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Soft No (invited by the bot) It's two steps removed from the topic in WP:relevance which for me means setting a high bar for informativeness on the topic to include. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:11, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No (Summoned by bot) It's two steps removed from the topic in WP:relevance which for me means setting a high bar for informativeness on the topic to include per North8000. It's also a non-reaction, whereas a well sourced reaction, such as disputing the accuracy of the film might be informative, it's harder to see any benefit in recording indifference, especially if not widely reported/discussed. Pincrete (talk) 12:55, 18 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No. As previously covered, will not improve the article and does not meet criteria for relevance. 777burger user talk contribs 18:14, 21 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No since he had no reaction and his 'no reaction' is just pointless trivia. Some1 (talk) 02:19, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.