Talk:Mark Bingham

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mark Bingham article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article was nominated for deletion on 23 January 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

LGBT studies: Person

	LGBT portal This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBT-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBT studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBT studiesLGBT articles
	This article is supported by the LGBT Person task force.

Rugby union Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rugby union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of rugby union on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Rugby unionWikipedia:WikiProject Rugby unionTemplate:WikiProject Rugby unionrugby union articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

University of California Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to University of California, its history, accomplishments and other topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject University of CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject University of CaliforniaUniversity of California articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Business Low‑importance

	Business portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of business articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject BusinessTemplate:WikiProject BusinessWikiProject Business articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Arizona / September 11 Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Arizona portal This article is supported by WikiProject Arizona (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject September 11, 2001 (assessed as Low-importance).

California: San Francisco Bay Area Low‑importance

	California portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	San Francisco Bay Area portal This article is supported by San Francisco Bay Area task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Previous discussions without headers[edit]

>> Holm describes Bingham as a brave, competitive man, saying, "He hated to lose — at anything."

Need a citation for that.

Randal Oulton (talk) 05:25, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For an August 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Rodney Dickens et al

Paul Holm was not Mark's partner of eight years. Paul was Mark's former partner of 6 years. The two had not been together for a couple of years.

9-11-03 You are not forgotten. Thank you for your sacrifice - you gave us all hope on a hopeless day.

I would like to see some references for the claim that he prevented the deaths of "hundreds of thousands" of people. Less than 3000 were killed during the entire 9/11 attacks, was this passenger jet loaded with nuclear weapons or something?

--66.153.153.59 (talk) 12:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it says "hundreds or thousands". Either way, you'll never know. 僕曜日 (talk) 23:17, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mark_Bingham2.jpg[edit]

This image problematic on several counts.

It is non-free and there is already a non-free image in this article. It fails WP:FAIR #3a, 8
My removal was reverted and the edit sum was "... the other showing him doing what he is famous for" i.e. rugby. Well, he is not famous for playing rugby; he is famous for being a passenger on foomed Flight 93. This explanation provided by the editor is insufficient rationale for a fair use claim. Lionel (talk) 00:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If there are no objections, based on policy, I will remove the offending image in violation of WP:FAIR. Lionel (talk) 00:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's fine based on policy, he is certainly known for playing rugby, that is his recreation.STL1989 (talk) 04:47, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It seems as though you are dismissing my points out of hand. With all due respect, did you even read WP:FAIR? Lionel (talk) 06:47, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gay American[edit]

It a shame the author is afraid to mention that Mark Bingham was gay. Gay American would take pride in having that fact mentioned in the article, because that's part of who he was. --Eddylyons (talk) 01:57, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very strange omission in this article. I've just added a statement to the lede that Bingham was gay. Textorus (talk) 07:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notability[edit]

This article mentions several people who've honoured and character-played this victim in the media; but neglects to explain his significance.Beingsshepherd (talk) 01:01, 27 February 2013 (UTC)Beingsshepherd[reply]

The final sentence of the Lead section explains his significance:

As a gay man, Bingham has been widely honored posthumously for having "smashed the gay stereotype mold and really opened the door to many others that came after him."

In addition to this, there's the fact that he was one of the four ringleaders who came up with the plan to take the plane back from the hijackers. This was not adequately stated in the Lead or the article, so I added it, with a citation. Thanks for pointing this out. Nightscream (talk) 05:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Mark Bingham. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:53, 3 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Mark Bingham. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130727095710/http://names.911memorial.org/ to http://names.911memorial.org/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:18, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Puffery[edit]

In general, this article needs some tightening up. While it's clear that Mark Bingham acted bravely with his fellow passengers on that airplane, the article is tends to glorify him and includes information such as he had saved lives on several previous occasions, including that of his partner's twice. This may be true (and documented) but is it really relevant here? The events of 9/11 caused many people to act in heroic, extraordinary ways no matter what they had done previously. Also, I cleaned up some extraneous information, such as the names of many of the Hoagland (his mother's) family who survived him; such detail weighs down the more relevant parts of the article.ChiHistoryeditor (talk) 13:03, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The height of several passengers?[edit]

In the 9/11 section it says: "Bingham, Burnett, and Glick were each more than 6 feet (1.83 m) tall, well-built and fit."

Is this necessary? Bingham's height is noted elsewhere in the article, but this sentence feels superfluous and doesn't add anything, nor is there an explanation of why it matters. Lindsey40186 (talk) 22:45, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The cited source mentions it when it describes how the three men spearheaded the attempt to retake the plane. Nightscream (talk) 16:01, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I can appreciate that it was mentioned in the source material. I guess I'm just wondering if it's important enough to mention in the article. I'm fine with whatever the consensus is. Lindsey40186 (talk) 12:34, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]