Talk:Fayetteville–Manlius High School

Fayetteville–Manlius High School was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 26, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

Schools Mid‑importance

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Untitled[edit]

I'm removing the multiple tags at the top of the article, which in my opinion are disproportionate to the article's deficiencies as a stub. Virtually every fact but one (Aura Lee as the melody for the school song) is mentioned in the sources listed in the article. The fact that the sources are not listed as inline citations does not change this. I will try to improve the citation style when I get the time, but I encourage others to beat me to this task, and maybe find additional sources to cite. Regards. Karen | Talk | contribs 04:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I added some inline citations anyway, and marked a "citation needed" on one factoid that, while probably true, is not in line with what the school district says about itself. In the end I left one of the four tags at the top of the article. It would also be great if someone could continue the good work someone started in checking the bio pages on the Hall of Distinction inductees and listing their fields of notability.Karen | Talk | contribs 05:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Traditions section[edit]

I'm not certain what cleanup is needed here, nor what expansion (the previous tagging of the section) can usefully be done. The only part of the whole "hornets nesting in a green-leaved oak tree" theme I know of that isn't specifically mentioned is the student newspaper names, which are listed further down. The facts given are all per the cited sources, except that I haven't been able to find an online reference to the fact that it's sung to "Aura Lee". If the section seems unclear or incomplete, perhaps someone can take a stab at fixing it, but I honestly don't see a problem. Thanks! -- Karen | Talk | contribs 00:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure, but it could be that the short paragraph rather seems to jump around. Not sure how to fix, other than merging with other sections, and that would kill the continuity of the little story there. vlad§inger ^tlk 01:47, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The history section here is inaccurate. I'm not sure when the Fayetteville and Manlius high schools were merged, but it was long before the new building was opened in 1962. I attended the F-M Middle School on Pleasant Street in Manlius from 1956-1958 and my F-M class of 1962 was the last F-M class to graduate from what it now the Wellwood Middle School on South Manlius Street in Fayetteville. I always believed that building was the Fayetteville High School before the 1951 merger, but I was only 7 at the time and I have no reference to prove it. - (JPW) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.170.229 (talk) 20:51, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tragedy[edit]

I know this doesn't exactly pertain to the article itself, but I should point out that yesterday two seniors, Kevin Goich Jr and Joshua Davis were involved in accident as covered here: [1]. Both are no longer with us. I didn't know them personally, but please keep them in your thoughts and prayers. vLaDsINgEr 18:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC) Perhaps this should be added to the article.[reply]

GA Review[edit]

While I would easily grade this article at the "B" level, I don't think it meets the good article criteria, primarily on completeness, with a couple of manual of style issues. First, the lead section is too short, and does not adequately summarize the article. It would help to consult WP:LEAD for help in this area.

While the article does contain some key references of information, it is largely under-referenced. While referencing doesn't have to be 100% for GA status, information that is likely to be challenged, and major statistics and such, should be. Plus, all 'citation needed' tags should be addressed as well, and there are two of these currently in the article. References should also ideally be formatted in accordance with WP:CITE; references for information found on the web should contain as much information about the reference as possible, including author, title, publisher, date of publication, and date of last retrieval. This is so that, should the link ever become inaccessible, the reference is not rendered useless and could be used to verify information, should someone choose to do so.

The history section looks reasonably good; could use a few more references. The 'new facilities' subsection is really just a list, and kind of awkward. Most of the facilities mentioned there, I wouldn't exactly classify as "new" (something opened in 1998 & 2000?). The section could use a major overhaul, probably renaming, or integrating information into other areas. For example, some of the information about new classroom facilities could be integrated into the academics section.

The demographics information is largely unreferenced. I also would not consider it as high a priority as 'academics', and would move the section later in the article. The information about how many teachers there are is referenced, but I think it might fit better in the academics section.

Separate academics from extracurriculars; these are two separate topics that shouldn't be merged. I think subsection headers are used a little two liberally here; you could probably combine 'graduation data' and 'curriculum', and possibly even 'notable achievements', writing out the latter section as prose, instead of a list. The 'improve this article' tag is also a huge red flag against GA status. This should be addressed as well.

"International Baccelaureate (IB) courses are not offered at F-M." -- why mention this at all in the article. If it's not mentioned, then so what? If there's a specific reason why it hasn't been mentioned, then that MIGHT be notable. But as it's written, this sentence can be eliminated.

"In addition, the athletic department does not participate in academic All-America honors." -- Ditto for this statement. So what?

Eliminate the 'reputation' section under 'athletics'. It could probably be mostly integrated into the beginning of the athletics section, but watch out for some glowing, weaselly language; "F-M Athletics are renowned around the state and the country for competitive superiority, sportsmanship and academic integrity." -- This statement looks like it was written by a definite, die-hard supporter of the athletic programs, but does not meet wikipedia's WP:NPOV guidelines. ( Done? vlad§inger ^tlk )

The athletic achievements is mainly just a list. Generally, lists should be discouraged from articles. Put some of the big achievements as prose in the section, but if it's a long year-by-year list, move it to a separate page.

The controversy section should be removed. I'm not sure I'd call this 'national attention', but I guess it did get NYT coverage. Overall, though, criticism and controversy sections are generally discouraged from articles (see WP:CRITICISM). The section could be shortened a bit, rewritten, and moved to the history section, since it's largely going to become history anyways.

Change the title of 'alumni' to 'notable alumni'. ( Done vlad§inger ^tlk )

It might be good for editors to come to consensus on exactly who is "notable" to include here. Generally, celebrities, politicians, sports figures, and other well known individuals are included here. But I'm seeing a lot of regular doctors, lawyers, scientists, and others that I wouldn't exactly call "notable".

Watch the 'external links' section. Review WP:EL. There's quite a few links, and links that aren't directly connected to the school (like Syracuse University or the general Science Olympiad website) shouldn't be included. Plus, some of the links to the PDF reports at the very beginning should be cited as references, and therefore not included in the external links section.

That's about all I can think of right now; there could be more later. Hope this helps improve the article, though. Dr. Cash 01:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To clear up a few concerns, first regarding references; normally, it's acceptable to place references at the end of each paragraph of information, if the whole paragraph is cited. So that's why I made the comment regarding the 'demographics' section specifically. As far as other sections go, I still think it's a bit under-referenced. Mainly, if entire sections of content rely on a single reference, that could be a potential NPOV issue, as you're only getting the viewpoint from one source. It could also be a sign of a completeness issue, as well; e.g. if you only looked at one source for a given topic, did you really conduct a thorough search for more sources?

Regarding the "so what?" statements, I apologize if these comments sounded a bit harsh,... The real point I mean to be making is that the article should covering what the school offers, and what IS there. Don't worry about covering programs that the school doesn't cover, or things that aren't there. To put this in perspective, would the White House website biography on President Bush included a statement that, "President Bush does not have a pet iguana." No. Because he doesn't have one. Instead, they're going to cover pets that he DOES have. The two statements that are there are also unsourced, and could fall under original research, since your suggesting that these things are true based on other observations you're making about the school. Either that, or it could actually fall under a category of something that's duly obvious; if the school doesn't talk about these programs, they don't exist, so it doesn't take a lot of brainpower to figure it out.

I do see that the editor(s) has/have done quite a bit of research on the article, and overall, the content is pretty much there. I think with a little polishing off, sorting the information into better categories and such, and maybe filling in a few small holes, it'll be at GA status soon enough. Good luck! Dr. Cash 06:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to append

Done tags to the statements I address. vlad§inger ^tlk 17:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the "Reputation" section, since the two statements in the middle are somewhat redundant with the list, I removed those. I also removed the first sentence. Though true, it is admittedly somewhat POV. The last statement about winning local championships and the Scholar Athlete awards is pure fact, so I moved that to the lead paragraph of the athletics section, and removed the "Reputation" heading. OK? vlad§inger ^tlk 17:49, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cheating scandal[edit]

FM seems to attract this sort of attention. :P. I updated information for today, Nov 7 and added the current event tag. The section will have to be updated after the rulings. vlad§inger ^tlk 01:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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