Talk:Catch for Us the Foxes

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Latter portion of the article dropped[edit]

I'm reverting the last edit, and then I'll trim stuff that's original research/unverifiable. TheRuss 04:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]


New work[edit]

After my additions, there were mixed reactions. Possibily because I did not leave any type of explanation. Also due to my haste in changing things without challenging them first. I apologize for cutting without reasoning. I will ensure it will not happen again. I meant to add to the strength of the page. Please continue to provide feedback and changes as necessary. It is not my desire to leave this page or any other less of objectively written. I included all the research that I have for my claims. Those claims which are not sufficiently upheld should be argued. Please do not delete without explanation. I would also enjoy any additions from other mewithoutYou enthusiasts or researchers. Again, my desire was not to offend or discount. flofor15 15:14, 10 Jan 2008

I added some more today for several songs including Seven Sisters, Paper Hanger, My Exit, Unfair, Four Word Letter (Pt 2), Carousels, Son of a Widow. I added is much as I could for references and completed some of the thoughts for several songs as seems apparent. Please edit, but do so with care. Thank you flofor15 10:29, 26 Mar 2008

Removed Section[edit]

The lyrical themes section was removed as it amounts to little more than original research and speculation. Lyrical interpretation is not suitable content for an encyclopedia. These are the editors own ideas for the song meanings. Unless the actual lyricist explains the meaning of a song, then such content cannot be included. A general overview of lyrical themes can be included, assuming that this section is well referenced to reviews or interviews etc. Songmeanings.com is absolutely not a reliable source. Nouse4aname (talk) 08:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just undid the edit of Guerillero [1], which deleted the Lyrical themes section, which apparently has been removed before. The reason why is because it is unfair to wholesale delete a section when not all of it in is tarnished by original research. There is definitely some original research here,[1] but there is also some attributed[2] and attributable[3] research. I think we ought to vote on it to remove it or, at least, remove the original research parts, but not get rid of wholesale, because there are some valuable things in there. What do you think? ~ Joshuajohnson555 (talk) 10:36, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion. The unreferenced material should be removed immediately. The suspicious material should also be removed. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:59, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The section is wholly original research and does not belong in an encyclopedia article --Guerillero | My Talk 02:00, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Some O.R., but not wholly. There are some references and obvious material doesn't really need to be referenced, only that which is likely to be challenged. I wouldn't complain to see it removed though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:30, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lyrical themes[edit]

Recurring motifs throughout the album include foxes (Disaster Tourism, The Soviet), leaves (Tie Me Up! Untie Me!, Leaf) and day/night (Disaster Tourism, The Soviet). Front man and song writer Aaron Weiss quotes many different sources, but most often he borrows from Jalal ad-Din Rumi, a poet of Sufism, the religion of his mother. The album title itself, "Catch For Us The Foxes" is taken from Song of Solomon (or Song of Songs) 2:15 in The Bible.

  1. "Torches Together" was written in light of Aaron Weiss's experience at The Simple Way and Brouderhoff, two communities that take the idea of church as seriously as the early church. While there Aaron wrote this song. "The song off our new record, ‘Torches Together,’ talks about community and coming together and loving each other.."[4] He also references his previous suicidal tendencies: "anyway, aren't you unbearably sad?" and looks into the Simple Way philosophy of living simply and with no plans: "so never mind of plan making, we'll start living." He also uses common biblical concepts of the church like a building (1 Peter 2:4-5), being the light of the world (Matthew 5:14). The song ends with a reference to Matthew 11:16-17.
  2. "January 1979" is a song themed around Aaron Weiss's failure as a human in life. He and former bassist, Daniel Pishock, were both born in January 1979. The "crash" Aaron explains refers to his birth. Aaron wrote this song discussing his frustration surrounding his "overfed, unconcerned, and comfortably numb" existence. Realizing his failure, he sings of becoming a servant of all, a reference to Matthew 23:11. Becoming the lowest would imply that there would no longer be any possibility of failing more. While he remarks that his eyes have become useless, the song ends with hope of a cure. His concept about grasshoppers may reference to Numbers 13:33, or Isaiah 40:22. The line "My ear pressed against the past / like a glass on the wall of a house in a photograph" closely resembles a line in Richard Brautigan's novel "So The Wind Won't Blow It All Away".
  3. "Tie Me Up! Untie Me!" shows themes of suicide and the mysterious salvation of the Lord. Weiss begins with a search for someone, probably God, on the "tops of the trees", where a glorious God should be found, but with no success. He rather finds that Jesus is "buried" and mostly left unnoticed. Despite Weiss's inability to find God, God grabbed him, like a sickness. Then his "sweetheart moved away," possibly referring to his previous relationship with sin or the world (with further references to this girl in the chorus). However this provided more tension as Weiss goes on to speak of his distance from God, and his fickleness is obeying God or obey his flesh ("Tie me up! Untie me!). Suicide seems to be a major distraction. Again he describes the search for God, and his surprise in finding God in a "dull shell." The song ends with witness of victory over seemingly unsurmountable tendencies towards suicide. He takes from Rumi using the line: "Love moves away. The light changes. I need more grace than I thought.[5]"
  4. "Leaf" likely is a song born out of Aaron's sudden change from caring about his clothing and dance style to his disgust with showiness and fame. In an interview[6] by Relevant Magazine he comments about clothes "I feel embarrassed buying food when it's being thrown away everywhere I look! And dressing up in new clothes every day, trying to look attractive or desirable and stay clean and respectable—it's a lot of effort, and I don't have it in me anymore. When I see people with their hair done and make up and stylish clothes, it looks silly to me now, like a costume." He goes on in the song to say that logical talk, or dancing or even singing is stupid and doesn't allow God inside of him to speak at all. He rather desires purity of heart in his "call to love my brother." The chorus is a reference to Soren Kierkegaard's work "Purity of Heart is to Will One Thing".
  5. "Disaster Tourism" is probably a song about wisdom or some new revelation calling to a man lost in hedonism. While this new revelation does not make sense, the man still replies. Aaron stated in an interview at Purple Door '05 that this song was based on a trip he took to the Red Light District in Amsterdam.
  6. "Seven Sisters" is written considering creation and the place of humans in it. The Creator made things soft and easy. However, men's clever philosophy is simply neat arrangements and men are left try to discover "where to sleep." He paraphrases a quote from "Icon of Light", a prayer written by Symeon the New Theologian. "Come, Light that knows no evening come, alone to the alone."[7]. Aaron also uses the ideas of Rumi: "A thousand half-loves must be forsaken to take one whole heart home",[8] and then again in the next line: "You dance inside my chest, where no one sees you, but sometimes I do.."[9]. These two prayers form a plea to the Creator to give men a madness that is whole, and to offer a resting place. The chorus refers to the cleansing and salvation found in God. The expectation continues that men are "expected to believe that any of this is real. The lines "covered like carpets with graceful, meaningless ornamental designs" comes from the novel The Journey To The East by Hermann Hesse."
  7. "The Soviet" is about the human struggle with selfish love and fear and the shame springing up from them. A resolution offered is to take care and watch to prevent needless pain that comes with lust and impurity. Aaron Weiss passionately sings "I don't need this," renouncing the seeming truth found in culture that the physical and emotional love is necessary. References include 1 John 4:8, Song of Solomon 2:15 and Oscar Wilde's Poem "The Harlot's House". The lyrics "O' wake up sleepers and rise from the dead!" is a reference to Ephesians 5:14.
  8. "Paper-Hanger" is about dying to find life in Christ. Aaron lightly borrows from the story of Jesus turning water into wine at a banquet as told in John 2. "She was like wine turned to water then turned back to wine." This line might refer to the perfect creation of God turning away from God and then turned back to God again. The surrender to God offered in the lyrics "My life is no longer mine" leads him to fit into the function of community that provides wholeness. Men, when they "stop [their] leaving" and show unselfish commitment, that therein lies the betterment of men. Lyrics quote the Gospel of Thomas: "If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your father within you?' say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'" Stevan Davies explains: "The seven days of Genesis begin with the Spirit moving upon the waters, continue through six days of the movement of creation, and conclude with a day of repose." [10]
  9. "My Exit, Unfair" is a song Aaron wrote about his mother. He refers to the Biblical account of Jonah and his foolishness is fleeing from God's plans for him. The realization is that "a hard rain is going to fall." The emptiness and failures of men are temporary while deep inside us the eternal is written, an allusion to Ecclesiastes 3:11. The end of the song is a Islamic prayer that Aaron prayed as a child, that he learned from his mother [11] translated "Oh Most Patient, Glory be to Thee, I seek refuge in you from Satan the accursed. Praise be to God. In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful."[12]
  10. "Four Word Letter (Pt.2)" is an interesting song born out of the difference in the faith of Aaron and his family. While there seems to be a bit of meaninglessness, "..aimlessly drifting around." there is a yearning for purpose even in doubt: "Oh, doubters, let's go down, down to the river to pray.." borrowing from Down in the River to Pray, a traditional hymn. There is a bit of discussion about seeking out God coming from his family, to which he responds appropriately to each excuse. However, Aaron admits that he does not desire his beliefs or those of his family, but rather to have the "God of peace." By using imagery of a song and its artist comparing them to God and his creation, he shows the absurdity of complaining, even if its "clever" or philosophical. The real "hunger" is not satisfied with a set of beliefs, whether Christian or Islamic. Fans often express belief that the four word letter is "Jesus I love you" or "I love you goodbye" [13]
  11. "Carousels" is a song about the foolishness of the world and the true need for God. Aaron wrote this song after riding into town one day. He was struck by the billboards and consumerism found in the American culture. This realization leads him to lay prostrate before God. As the Israelites once wandered in the desserts of Sinai, so Weiss admits that he would wander without God. He also expresses the meaninglessness and evil of existence apart from God's existence. He quotes Jack Kerouac's book The Dharma Bums when he sings: "Like a horn blown by some sad angel." There is also a plea for Jesus to come back, referring to his expected return. In the background of the first verse, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom," is heard - the words of the criminal crucified beside Jesus who repented. In the second verse "we bow in unity when we come into your kingdom" is heard instead.
  12. "Son of a Widow" is a poem about dying to self. From the start, there is a persistence for connection between Aaron and God. The idea is that only in the crushing of a grape is wine made. There is a burial performed by Aaron's close friends of his identity apart from God, including all his accomplishments. There is simply the desire to retire from lonely existence. It may be referencing Luke 7:12, "The boy who had died was the only son of a widow."

sources[edit]

[2][3][4][5][6] --Guerillero | My Talk 03:32, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ For example, "Becoming the lowest would imply that there would no longer be any possibility of failing more"
  2. ^ For example, this sentence is quoted from a 'Decapolis' interview: "The song off our new record, ‘Torches Together,’ talks about community and coming together and loving each other."
  3. ^ E.g., "He and former bassist, Daniel Pishock, were both born in January 1979."
  4. ^ Decapolis InterviewDecapolis: MewithoutYou Interview
  5. ^ The Essential Rumi Selection of Poems by Rumi
  6. ^ Relevant Interview Relevant Magazine Interview with Aaron Weiss
  7. ^ Icon of Light Icon of Light: from Saint Symeon the New Theologian : Prayer to the Holy Spirit
  8. ^ Rumi Rumi: The Book of Love: Poems of Ecstasy and Longing
  9. ^ Art as Flirtation and Surrender Sufism Poetry by Rumi
  10. ^ Gospel of Thomas Gospel of Thomas Saying 50 at Early Church Writings
  11. ^ Discussion about My Exit, Unfair SongMeanings Discussion Boards
  12. ^ Discussion about My Exit, UnfairSongMeanings Discussion Board
  13. ^ Discussion about Four Word Letter (Pt. 2) SongMeaning Discussion Boards

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