Talk:Babi Yar

Documents in the book

The terrible documents written by murderous Germans who acted in Babi Yar can be written in the book “The good old days” by Ernst Klee and others.

Use of colorized image

I really think this article should go back to using the previous image. Right now, it's a colorized version of a photo taken by the SS. It's credited to Johannes Haehle and listed as being created on 1 October 1941, but the coloring is ex post facto. I know that colorization can bring the past to life and make it more "interesting" to modern audiences, but its accuracy and authenticity is always questionable. Since the original image was black-and-white, we should use that image. Are we going to colorize every other image of the Holocaust, too? `Sacxpert (talk) 05:32, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

The colour photographs are the original images; they have not be colourised. The entire collection can be downloaded via this link: The “Hähle Photos”: The Mass Murder of the Jewish Inhabitants of Kiev and Lubny as Seen by a Wehrmacht Propaganda Company Photographer, from the Hamburg Institute for Social Research. --K.e.coffman (talk) 05:45, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

@Sacxpert: I clarified the provenance of the image with this edit. --K.e.coffman (talk) 06:43, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Okay, then I have to unreservedly apologize. I just assumed, having seem the same image in black-and-white, that it came first and the colorizing came later. Thank you for the clarification! Sacxpert (talk) 04:10, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the image currently used, I don't know if it's a particularly clear representation of the actual massacre, as opposed to its aftermath. Kiew_Babyn_Yar_7_Bild_008-005 in the collection K.e.coffman linked in this thread also isn't an exact representation of the massacre itself, but appears to be in the more immediate aftermath of the massacre (i. e. before the Nazis undermined the wall of the ravine). File:Massacre de Babi Yar.jpg is a more clear depiction of actual shootings at Babyn Yar, but it was apparently taken in 1942, after the initial 1941 massacre. I'm not sure which photograph we should use, but I'd be most in favor of using Kiew_Babyn_Yar_7_Bild_008-005. CJ-Moki (talk) 06:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Language of title of the article

The article is about Ukrainian city, place in Ukraine and about Ukrainian victims in the list of all victims from there. Why does the name of the article is transcription from russian language? I mean in ukrainian we call it only "Бабин Яр" (Babyn Yar) and even for some Ukrainians who talk in russian that is Banyn Yar, not Babi Yar. Can y'all please change it? Ask for that as ukrainian. Thank you. Artekimus (talk) 09:06, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

It is English Wikipedia, so whatever it is called in Ukrainian is irrelevant. The WP:COMMONNAME is clear.[1] Mellk (talk) 11:55, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

OUN

The lead says: Victims of massacres at the site included members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. The source used[2] says: "Several dozen OUN members fell victim to the Germans in Kyiv. These were mostly Melnykites, who up until then had coexisted and cooperated with the occupiers." In page 216 it says: "The shootings were carried out in an anti-tank ditch, as well as in pits that were dug in the open area in the Babyn Yar district (but not in the ravine itself)". Also the same source says: "Although successors to the OUN(M) in modern Ukraine and in the Ukrainian diaspora state that the Germans killed as many as 621 activists of the movement in Kyiv between 1941 and 1943, careful calculations show this number to be incorrect. A shorter list, of 62 names, mentioned on a memorial cross placed in 1992, also requires verification, as at least some of these OUN members were not victims of Nazism." Also the section in the source is called "Ukrainian Nationalists as Victims of Nazi Germany", not "Ukrainian Nationalists as Victims of Babyn Yar". Meanwhile in the body it says: Among those murdered were 621 members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). While it links to this source. It also raises the question of WP:DUE weight. Mellk (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Name change

• What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}): The page name should be changed to Babyn Yar
• Why it should be changed: Babi Yar is the Russian spelling in English; Babyn Yar is the Ukrainian spelling in English. This is an area in Ukraine, therefore it should be named according to its country of origin.
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): the very page on which I’m requesting an edit.

Macarter85 (talk) 14:14, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done: Please read WP:RM. M.Bitton (talk) 18:54, 1 March 2023 (UTC)