Talk:Australia

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2023

In citation #1, there are six external links: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. All but 1 and 3 are dead links (surprisingly, 5 is dead, even though it's an archived link), so please mark 2, 4, 5, and 6 with {{Dead link}}. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 23:10, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done: There are only 3 citations there, all of which have the original and an archive link, which I think got you confused. I've marked the 3rd as dead as the archive link does seem to be corrupt somehow. Thanks! ~ Eejit43 (talk) 23:38, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Reliefmap of Australia.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:14, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

From whom

Who is Australia "sovereign" from? Is it that they were ruled by another country before and they are now a new state? 204.237.89.229 (talk) 12:18, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

(Talked about above already) ...It is odd but its been here a long time and in view should be removed. Problem with the wording is that a state can achieve independence long after acquiring sovereignty, So thus the article leave open the question is it an " independent" country not needing a qulifier. Is it more like Canada or still part of the UK like England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is what most will ask when seeing the word sovereign. Moxy- 12:36, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

"Independent country" and "sovereign country" are synonyms, and refer to states which have legal standing in international law. (Australia has standing in international law and is a member of the UN so is a sovereign country. Wales is a country but doesn't have standing in international law and isn't a member of the UN so isn't a sovereign state.) The term "sovereign country" is explained in the link so anyone who is confused need only click it. As you point out, the statement has been part of the stable version of this article for years and there seems to be no consensus for change. I would prefer that "sovereign country" be changed to "sovereign state" which is the more common term in international law. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 21:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Will have to disagree with your assessment and unsourced definition Talmon, S.; Talmon, C.D.I.I.L.P.L.S. (1998). Recognition of Governments in International Law:. Oxford monographs in international law. Clarendon Press. p. 50. ISBN 978-0-19-826573-3. Retrieved 2023-03-19.. As mentioned above the link does not help explain 1901 nationhood vs 1986 independence. Current wording sound like we are talking about native title Moxy- 12:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

If you think Australia only became an independent country in 1986, you really need to read the article about Australia and the article about sovereign states. And recognition of governents in international law is different from the recognition of states. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 13:05, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

We can debate full autonomy later as historians and legal scholars differ on this[1]. Having the first link in the lead...leading to zero content about the country is useless and as seen by multiple comments causes confusion. The article should explain its sovereignty not a link as the other country articles do.Moxy- 13:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Not to be confused with Austria

This has been discussed before and consensus was not to have such a note. An editor recently added it again on the grounds there is a similar note on the Austria page. I thought I would leave it for a while before raising yet again here. I think it is not required. There is no evidence of readers confusing the two countries that I am aware of. Nickm57 (talk) 07:54, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Anecdotally I've heard of this confusion a number of times. I think both pages should have a note to that effect. —DIYeditor (talk) 08:28, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Anglosphere

Hello all

A couple of editors would like to add some references to the concept of the Anglosphere in relation to Australia's culture and foreign relations. My view is that the concept is rarely if ever used in Australian public debate in these areas and it hasn't been demonstrated to be a key factor in foreign or cultural policy or developments. The trend of the past few decades has been towards multiculturalism and Australia as a part of Asia. Of course, the US is a major strategic partner and there are historical cultural ties to the UK and other British settler countries, but I am yet to see a strong consensus of sources that the concept of an 'Anglosphere' explains the recent shifts in Australian culture and strategic partnerships. I don't think the concept is helpful in a general article about Australia but if the consensus is to include a reference I think it should be a general one in the body of the article something like, "'while some writers consider Australia to be a key member of an 'Anglosphere', since the 1980s there has mostly been bipartisan support policy for multiculturalism and increased strategic partnerships with other Asian nations." The words could be polished and suitable sources easily found. I think a statement like this would be better than shoehorning the concept into the article in an awkward way. Happy to discuss and go with the consensus. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:36, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. The government places a strong emphasis on the Quad, which includes Japan and India and has evolved into an alliance-like structure. Australia's foreign policy and defence links with Japan are particularly close. Nick-D (talk) 09:54, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly regarding trends of recent decades towards multiculturalism and involvement with Asia. But at the risk of being a smartarse, I can think of more than 300 billion reasons in the past week alone why the concept of the Anglosphere is relevant in discussions of Australian foreign affairs, particularly when it comes to defence and intelligence matters. A mention of the Anglosphere best sits with AUKUS and Five Eyes, I think, as these are prime examples. Perhaps we could expand on it by saying the term is often used when criticising such arrangements? Examples of use of the term include: ABC, The Conversation, East Asia Forum, Fin Review, The Guardian, Lowy Institute and the Sydney Morning Herald. Cheers, Meticulo (talk) 11:17, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. Yes, it seems like the use of the word Anglosphere has become more popular as a term of derision used by some people opposed to Aukus (it's telling though that the articles had to include lengthy explanations of what the "Anglosphere" is). But many see Aukus as a strategic response to the perceived China threat in the South China Sea/Pacific, where the interests of the partners happened to coincide, rather than a pivot by Australia away from building strategic partnerships with other Asian powers. My concern is that the notion of Anglosphere is a disputed interpretive framework rather than a description of Australia's foreign policy. In an article of this kind, which is mainly about describing Australia (including its foreign relations) I just don't see how the term adds anything to the previous simple description of the multiple strategic alliances. Perhaps it could go in the history section? Aukus is certainly important enough to have a line there explaining what Aukus is, it's obvious link to Chinese policy in the region and that several writers have criticised the policy as a step towards creating an Anglosphere in the region. But let's see what others think. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 12:22, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Got to be a bit careful with this new term...Vucetic, Srdjan (2011). The Anglosphere : a genealogy of a racialized identity in international relations. Stanford, Calif.: Stanford University Press. ISBN 978-0-8047-7769-8. OCLC 727944978. Moxy- 01:59, 21 March 2023 (UTC)