Talk:Criticism of schooling

This is a somewhat oddly-titled article. Is "anti-education activism" a term accepted mutually by both its participants and its detractors? Are the philosophies listed on the page really against education or would it be more accurate to say they are skeptical about the present system of education (e.g. schools as we know them)? Using the word "anti-" also seems introduces a measure of bias, in my opinion. It would be like calling pro-choice activists anti-life activists. It seems to me this article should be either merged with Unschooling or be retitled to something along the lines of "Alternative education activism."

The term "activism" is questionable as well. This article seems to be more about presenting philosophies of alternative education than documenting activism concerned with those philosophies. There is already an article for Alternative Education, so also please consider merging with this. Thanks!

I was re-directed to this page from http://wiki.alquds.edu/?query=Over-education which seems inappropriate to me. Not only is it a separate topic in its own right, but a topic that is only partially related to Anti-education activism. (Not to mention that the reader may see a non-existing connection between a particular ideological view and a value neutral academic topic.)

Further, I am puzzled by the brief sub-entry on over-education. Certainly, the statements refer to parts of what over-education is and what the consequences can be; however, other aspects such as a blue-collar worker who simply feels that he wasted the last three years in school learning (or failing to learn) more than what he needed to know to get by in the world.

My recommendation would be to break out this section into a separate article, give it a full treatment (including references to research on the topic), and provide a link from Anti-education activism to the new article. 88.77.144.30 (talk) 09:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

"Anti-education" activism

Having read several books on the matter by the concerned activists, I've yet to see one that opposes education. They denounce *schooling* (for whatever reason, including published data showing that institutionalized schooling *retards* educational attainment vis-à-vis home education or unschooling).

It would be a total joke to confuse "anti-schooling" with "anti-education"; the latter would be opposed to all forms of knowledge acquisition, whether via schooling or whatever. Saravask (talk) 00:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

John Taylor Gatto

I think John Taylor Gatto deserves to be in more of this article than just the "see also" section. It may also be a good idea to include criticisms of schooling for encouraging ageism, adultism, adultcentrism, hierarchy, and the like. Obviously state schools have a bias in favor of maintaining the status quo by forcing ideologies that encourage the subsistence and preservation of schooling itself in addition to deliberately pushing a biased agenda in favor of statism and classism.72.240.84.53 (talk) 03:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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School related stress and depression and Unfree child labour

The paragraphs about "School related stress and depression" and "Unfree child labour" were wholly deleted on July 14. If individual sentences weren't supported by their references perhaps it makes sense to delete those, but most of the sentences had multiple references. For example this sentence had 4 references supporting it yet it was deleted:

 Academic pressure and rigorous schooling has been pointed to as a cause of the high rate of suicide among South Korean adolescents.

If one or two of the references didn't support the statement or weren't good references then it makes sense delete those references or edit the statement, but all the articles support the statement. There is even a section on suicide because of school pressure here: https://wiki.alquds.edu/?query=Suicide_in_South_Korea

Is an NY times article about south korean suicide better than an NPR article? This is just one example. In fact, most of the sentences deleted have multiple references.

Can someone please review those edits and the others by Volunteer Marek ? As I created the paragraphs I don't think I am impartial.

(Editor182971 (talk) 21:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC))

No one has stepped forward to review those edits. They were mass deletions, completely biased and uncalled for. I have added additional quotes to references to further support arguments that were already supported by many references and I have undone Volunteer Merrek's biased and destructive deletes. (Editor182971 (talk) 21:22, 25 May 2018 (UTC))

The deletions were made because the material is mostly SYNTH and OR. From a WP:SPA.Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:55, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Main problem

The main problem with this article is that is serves as a WP:COATRACK for "Criticism of the American public school system", not really "Anti-schooling activism". Virtually all of this articles is about what's wrong with formal schooling. And god knows schools deserve some of this criticism. But that's not the topic of this article. Like it says nothing about who is involved in anti-school activism, what kind of alternatives they propose, what policies they propose etc.

Tried to fix it but it seems people really want their criticism of schools in here. Volunteer Marek 19:30, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Absolutely true. As of now, the article shows only a few main points of criticism of this movement. Maybe it would already improve the quality of this article noticeably if one briefly describes some of the topics in the "See also" section with links to their main article. There are some well-known people of this movement and alternatives to the traditional school system.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 04:22, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Proposed split to Criticism of schooling

Per above, this article is a WP:COATRACK that contains very little sourced content about the actual movement, only their arguments. Can support a move instead of a split if coverage of the actual movement is not improved. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:28, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

I think a move probably makes more sense given the current state of the article, unless significant coverage of the movement can be found quickly. If we move it, definitely tag this page with Template:R with possibilities, since I do think this topic could warrant both articles. - - mathmitch7 ^{(talk/contribs)} 14:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

• Some of the "criticism" mentioned here is directed at American public schools and some is directed towards Western schooling as an institution. The signifier is loose, hence the article's scope issues. I think the near-term solution is that "criticism of American public schools" does not need its own article. It needs to be covered within Education in the United States and only split summary style when its coverage would be disproportionate in the parent article. A split/move directly to its own page would be premature. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 17:44, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
• Moving per mathmitch7, to Criticism of schooling may be easier and better.--Jusjih (talk) 04:58, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

• • Did an RM, in case there's a better title than the one proposed. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:56, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 5 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved based on consensus in the section above and lack of opposition below. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 19:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

---

Anti-schooling activism → Criticism of schooling – The article, as currently written, contains minimal content about an actual movement, instead focusing entirely on their arguments. (There may be a better title than the one I proposed.) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

To be honest, the lead was not in great shape

There were numerous problems with the tone, style (especially sentence length), and coverage of the lead. In a quick encounter, I tried to make the problems a little less foreboding, but there was only so much a few quick edits could accomplish.

If someone wants to take a bigger stab, I see three main threads:

• criticism of schooling as a public institution
• criticism of schooling as bad anthropology — e.g. age segregation of children
• criticism of schooling as outmoded with respect to an evolving society

— MaxEnt 05:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)