Talk:Ajuran Sultanate

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An Empire not Sultanate[edit]

The Ajuuraan Empire is the official name of this state. Why else are the leaders called Emperor of Somalia? Runehelmet (talk) 16:02, 31 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Three sources have been provided, all referring to the Ajuuraan polity as an empire, which it was, as it ruled over multiple historic republics, sultanates and kingdoms, with citizens of various ethnic origins part of the realm. --Somaliweyn10 (talk) 21:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Note: All references, but one (Lewis) are without name of author, publisher, etc. This is against WP:CITE and references cannot be verified. Above are three books with links to google books and everybody can verify, that Ajuraan was Sultanate. But reference as "Ufahamu: Volume 17 pg 98" is meaningless. Is Ufahamu name of book, or author? Or reference "Somali Sultanate pg18" (BTW not "Somali Empire"), what is it? Book, webpage or article in some journal?--Yopie (talk) 14:21, 22 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Ufahamu is a respected African journal on the history, society and culture of the African continent, so its not "meaningless", as it was a medium used by many different well-established scholars. From pg 87:

Meanwhile in the interiverine area of Southern Somalia, between the Juba and Shebelle river (the fertile agricultural area of Somalia), the Hawiyye clan created the Ajuuran empire in the 16 century. - Mohamed Haji Mukhtar, "The Emergence and Role of Political Parties in the Inter- River Region of Somalia from 1947-1960"

  • The Somali Sultanate by Somalist scholar Virginia Luling is about the Gobroon Dynasty, a successor state to the Ajuuraan, from Pg 17, she quotes another Somalist scholar(who in his own book also refers to the polity as an empire):

as Cassanelli has suggested, they were a successor state, who rose to power locally as the Ajuuraan 'empire' crumbled (Cassanelli, 1982: 110-11).

  • There are also several french sources who refer to the polity as an empire:

Les Ajuuraan auraient contrôlé un vaste empire théocratique dans la Corne de l'Afrique entre le XV et le XVII - Luc Cambrézy - Populations réfugiées: de l'exil au retour - Page 316


le pouvoir absolu qu'exerça Yimaan des Ajuuraan, un clan hawiyye qui, au quinzième siècle, édifia sur les bords du Shabeelle un véritable empire - Christian Bader, Les Yibro: Mages somali. Les juifs oubliés de la corne de l'Afrique? pg 97

  • The issue has been fixed, the names of the books/journals, the authors, the years of publication have all been included. I don't know the history between you and Runehelmet, and I really don't care, but I won't allow this article to be hi-jacked by personal vendettas, so if this is the real reason for your reverts and disruptions on the Ajuuraan State, I advise you not to continue in this matter for its very disruptive, and would further highlight that its not wise to wiki-stalk another member the way your doing right now to Runehelmet, its a well-established form of harrassment, see WP:HA. --Somaliweyn10 (talk) 18:54, 24 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Edits made to article to change name from Ajuran Sultanate to Ajuran Empire. As stated by Somaliweyn10, there are numerous verifiable cited sources that refer to Ajuran as an empire. Somali Strawhat (talk) 10:48, 27 March 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Citation link[edit]

Can someone fix the link error. I tried but it will still stay on the top of the page. Thank you. Runehelmet (talk) 20:27, 23 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]


As Lee V. Cassanelli explains [1]: "Ajuraan authority could be said to have extended from Mareeg (the territorial center of the Darandoolle, a segment of the Gurqaate Hawiyya) to Qallaafo (the probable homeland of the Jambelle Hawiyya[...] The state also incorporated groups of riverine cultivators that were settled at various places along the Shabeelle from Qallaafo in the north to Torre in the southeast, near Baraawe. These cultivators probably formed the bulk of the servile labor force that was conscripted to construct the dikes and canals popularly attributed to the Ajuraan period." So the polity's western border is Qallaafo, its northern one is Mareeg, and its southern one is Barawa. Middayexpress (talk) 17:46, 29 September 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ajuran not Ajuuraan[edit]

Wouldn't the name actual be spelled Ajuran and not Ajuuraan in English? Ajuuraan how it would be spelled using the Somali Latin Alphabet. The Encyclopedia Britannica also conforms this.

Ajuran is the anglicized spelling. However, it's more commonly known as the Ajuran/Ajuuraan/Ajuraan Sultanate. Middayexpress (talk) 20:46, 5 November 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Understood. AcidSnow (talk) 20:59, 5 November 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Middayexpress, I have decided to reopen this discussion after going through refs to use on this article. You are right that its often known as either the Ajuran/Ajuuraan/Ajuraan Sultanate, but the "Ajuran Sultanate" is used far more than the rest of them and is also the more common name. I plan on moving the article to that name soon, but if you have anything to say please do so. I have also already removed the second "e" in "Garen" as it is not used anywhere. AcidSnow (talk) 16:30, 16 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That makes sense as that's the commonname. Middayexpress (talk) 16:32, 16 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done, but I was unable to use the Move Button so I manually moved the article. How should be do the lead sentence? AcidSnow (talk) 16:54, 16 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Terrible name change, the most common name in the majority of the sources is "Ajuuraan" which follows the double vowel conventions of the Somali language. As someone who literally built this page from scratch I can only shake my head at these changes. Pity, this was a good article. -- (talk) 17:56, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Ajuran Sultanate" actually appears to be the WP:Commonname. Middayexpress (talk) 19:07, 25 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What are your methods to determine that Midday? The number of results for each spelling? None of the primary sources (that this entire article is based on) use that spelling, namely Cassanelli and Virginia Luling. There is always a double u (Ajuuran) or a double a (Ajuraan). I find the removal of 'state' in favor of 'sultanate' also problematic because it diminishes what the Ajuuraans had accomplished once upon a time in Africa; a rare highly centralized empire.
I'm actually not that particular about the spelling of "Ajuran". But since you asked, the most common spelling is "Ajuran Sultanate", followed by "Ajuuraan Sultanate" and then "Ajuraan Sultanate". It's the "Sultanate" part that is more important imho, and Lee V. Cassanelli describes the polity as such. That said, the Ajuraan Sultanate wasn't actually more centralized than the larger Somali sultanates, such as the Adal Sultanate, the Majeerteen Sultanate and Sultanate of Hobyo. Like them, it possessed the organs and trappings of an integrated modern state, including a functioning bureaucracy, a hereditary nobility, titled aristocrats, a state flag, as well as a professional army. Similarly, it too engaged in taxation, so it kept written records. There were basically two main differences between the Ajuuraan Sultanate and the other polities. It engaged in hydraulic construction, whereas the other Sultanates did not for the most part. For their part, the other Sultanates' had more developed foreign relations than the Ajuuraan polity did, including the signing of actual treaties. Apart from this, the Ajuuraan Sultanate was a fairly standard medieval period Somali sultanate. Middayexpress (talk) 16:39, 26 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sequin coin not Sequin[edit]

The link under an image of sequin coins points to the Sequin page. Shouldn't it point to Sequin_(coin) ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:11, 13 January 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

YesY Done. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:51, 13 January 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When did it begin/end and numerous of translations[edit]

Middayexpress, do you mind assist me in improve this article? Though there are citations for most sections there are certain ones and major sentences that don't have any. There are also citations that only list the authors name and not the book. Most of all there is no solid foundation as to when this sultanate began and ended an thatt there are cmore than 3 spellings of the name of the sultanate. AcidSnow (talk) 21:05, 18 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lee V. Cassanelli asserts that by tradition, the Ajuraan are held to have entered the inter-river area in southern Somalia between 16 to 20 generations ago. So that would be around 4.8 to 6 centuries ago. They are also associated with an early macro-Somali group called the Madanle, who like the Ajuraan constructed a number of waterworks in the region. Middayexpress (talk) 15:27, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That does not really answer any of my questions, but ok. AcidSnow (talk) 00:14, 14 April 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Possible wrong data in the table of imports/exports[edit]

I suspect that some cells of imports and exports have been inverted for some countries. I corrected some of them (Ming China, Vietnamese Lê Empire, and some African empires). I suggest a full re-check of the whole table because imports/exports may be inverted for others countries too. To whom it may concern, Please feel free to check my edit and the table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Max.kit (talkcontribs) 18:13, 15 August 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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