Talk:Abu Simbel

In Popular Culture

In the Edit of 18:00, 21 April 2008, an anonymous contributor stated that the temple is briefly seen in Star Wars Episode One. I watched that scene from the DVD several times in slow motion, but I couldn't see it. Has anyone else verified this contributor's claim? — Schoch6 (talk) 23:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I suspect this was inserted as a joke, as the planet named isn't a desert planet. I'll put in a citation needed tag, but the problem is that this has now been a part of wikipedia for seven years, and the fact has been repeated all over the internet. 109.151.13.156 (talk) 20:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I deleted it. Nobody seems to have images online showing the temple in the film, and it's not as if this bit of trivia would have any significance even if it were true. Best to err on the side of caution. A. Parrot (talk) 21:38, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

The deletion sounds a sensible move. It remains in the talk page in case anyone comes up with a reference. IMDb's filming locations for Star Wars: Episode I list Italy, Tunisia, UK. These are confirmed with more exact location details in movie-locations.com. Although the 'Abu SImbel' idea has been repeated around the Internet on less sturdy sources, the Wiki page, Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, and also the Wiki page, List of Star Wars filming locations make no mention of anywhere in Egypt, including Abu Simbel. As a trivia item, I would think it needs something a bit stronger if anyone wanted to suggest re-inclusion. Parzivalamfortas 05:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parzivalamfortas (talk • contribs)

Well, all that the special-effects people would have to do is insert an image of the temple into the crowded CGI cityscape, as some kind of in-joke or something. Special-effects people are known to do that sort of thing. But even if they did that, it's hardly of pressing importance to include here. A. Parrot (talk) 06:14, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

official portrait sculpture ritually effaced

The second colossus? I'd always heard that it was first-century earthquake damage. Experts? –Hajor 15:45, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but the recent additions by ARGOU look like a copyvio to me, or at least a verbatim copy without attribution: Google, World66. — mark ✎ 16:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

At least World66 is Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0 Licence. Can this be fixed by retroactively attributing them as a source? Assuming they are the original source, that is -- text appears in a bunch of other places as well. ARGOU, you there? –Hajor 16:20, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't sound like a reader-contributed travel description to me anyway — my guess would be that it is copied from some offline travel guide (and a pretty old one at that, judging from the archaic phrasing). But how are we ever going to know? — mark ✎ 16:55, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I tried to expand the page but I couldn't think. So I decided to expand by copying it from another webpage. — ARGOU User Talk:ARGOU 17:45, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Dear ARGOU, I hate to play wikicop, but please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia:Copyrights. As a general rule, like it says every time you press the save page button, "by submitting your work you promise you wrote it yourself, or copied it from public domain resources -- this does not include most web pages." Which webpage was it? If it was that cc.by.sa one, I suppose we can simply cover the crediting requirement by placing a footer in the article. Or something. –Hajor 20:47, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I got it from here –ARGOU[1] 04:42, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK. In the absence of any statement of relinquishment of rights, release into the public domain, etc. on that web site, and unless you had their express permission to use it, the text you contributed to this article must be considered a violation of that site's copyright. If that's the case, we'd better remove it. –Hajor 18:17, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hey there,

What section, specificly, did ARGOU add? I read through the article and am having some trouble pinning it down. Was it the section on tourism? Thanks alot, and I hope if there is anyway to do so I can contribute some more. Something I think that would help this article alot would be to add a list of good books on the subject of the temples at Abu Simbel. I recently wrote a paper on this, where web sources were not allowed, so I could suggest some in the future. -Tristram Shandy

Garden of Eden

I understand that a representation of the Garden of Eden was found in this temple (Godfrey Higgins, Esq., Anacalypsis: An Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis; or an Inquiry into the Origin of Languages, Nations and Religions, 2 vols. (new York: J. W. Bouton, 1878), vol. 1, p.403.). Could this information be added?

Looks good to me, should it be mentioned in the same section as Ramesses II's claimed victory in the battle of Battle of Khadesh and other pictographic depictions or should it have its own section bringing in suggestion to the depiction of Eden in other temples from near the same era? (specificly, I mean, Mesopatamian temples from the Assyrian and Sumerian ruling periods.) Personally I would like to see it be paralleled with the depictions that other cultures fabricated. -Tristram Shandy

What is the English translation of Abu Simbel I wonder? It is an Arabic term "Father of..........?"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.206.96 (talk) 07:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 

The greater temple

From what I understand the light does not shine on all statues, but only on three the sun gods Ra-Horakhty, Amun and Ramesses. Ptah (on the far left) remains in shadows all year as he is the god of darkness. When the temple was moved not only did the dates change to the 22nd of October and February but now part of the light shines on Ptah's shoulder. The original dates for this were the 21st.

In the book sources I came across they said the original date was the 21st and that it turned into the 20th of each month respectively. Where did you read that these occurences were the supposed birthdate and coronation of Ramesses II?

-Tristram Shandy

The above mentioned move from 21st to 22nd of October and Februar is from astronomic point of view impossible. If you are interested please give me your Mail adress an I will sent you a paper. M Mail Adress is: Manfred.Bauer@hcu-hamburg.de. 84.142.54.155 (talk) 13:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this snippet seems unlikely, and evidence to the contrary would be interesting, but you should just reference the published paper in the article. Other editors are likely to have access to journal archives. If its an unpublished paper, it doesn't qualify as a reliable source. What we have right doesn't appear to be particularly good references to me, but they are references rather than just bald assertions. BTW evidence about this being astronomically impossible without sources talking about Abu Simbel would have a WP:SYN problem. It wouldn't let us alter the dates, but instead both pieces of information would have to coexist on the page. (my opinion - sources for the required declination of the sun before and after the move would probably be better than dates)

BTW - you shouldn't publish personal info like that on Wikipedia. Bazzargh (talk) 01:52, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

About the occurences on the supposed birthdate and coronation of Ramesses II: I was there a few weeks ago and that was something that the tour guide told us about the temple. I also seem to remember him saying that the dates moved forward one day. But the group I was with had a long conversation about the birthdate and coronation day being something that someone just made up. -Karin Marshall —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.21.66 (talk) 02:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Reorginization and clean up

I recently wrote a paper about the greater temple at Abu Simbel for my History of Architecture class. Using this information I went through and did some clean up where I beleive my writing and research would help. Up soon I will add a bibliography for works cited and consulted, but I need to "convert" it into wikipedia's standard as it is currently in the MLA format. -Tristram Shandy

The Origin Land of Abu Simbel is Sudan (a North African country)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.121.70.228 (talk • contribs) 16:30, May 23, 2006 (UTC)

The above unsigned heading (unsigned template added by me), along with a couple of article edits by the same anonymous editor, seem to indicate that Abu Simbel was moved from Sudan into Egypt. Is this a claim that Egypt "stole" Abu Simbel from Sudan? The border between the two countries takes a detour at the Nile (as this map shows). But most online sources seem to agree that Abu Simbel stands about 50 km from the Sudan-Egypt border. Since the complex was only moved about 200ft up the side of the valley, it seems unlikely that it was moved across the border. I suppose the question then is whether the border was moved at some point in the past, transferring land from Sudan to Egypt. If anyone has any information on this, it would be nice to either confirm that Abu Simbel was once located in Sudan, or else to remove that claim from the article. GeoGreg 23:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Followup: request for verification posted to WP:EGYPT GeoGreg 19:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I've got a Reader's Digest Great World Atlas published in 1962. According to the map in page 72 of the Atlas it is clearly evident that there was no border change. You can find the links to the snapshots of the evidence down below. So, according to the new information, I'll remove the sentence in question.

==Maybe a rethink!== May I suggest you read the history of Nubia! When the high dam was built Nubia was submerged, approx half of the Nubians moved to Sudan and half moved to Egypt, formerly the land was known as Kush! Further the term Abu is an Arabic patronimic meaning "father of" when a mans first boy child is born he is known as Abu whatever he calls his son, it is not possible therfore for a young boy to bear the patronimic Abu anything!Merlin-UK (talk) 23:36, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

• [Egyptian Sudanese border in 1962]
• [Reader's Digest Great World Atlas published in 1962]

Kizzuwatna 22:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind that clearly defined borders are a modern invention, which required surveying techniques and a standard unit of distance. The French Revolution (1781) and the meter (1791)are good starting points. Before that borders were either natural borders (a river or a mountain range) or just left indistinct, by modern standards at least. There wasn't a line on one side of which one language was spoken, and on the other another. Usually these land borders are in remote areas and were not very important to anybody.

From Flaubert in Egypt I got the impression that Egypt, to the south, was anywhere one could get to via the Nile, blocked to boats a little below Abu Simbel, which he saw. deisenbe (talk) 21:28, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Singing statues?

Is anyone aware of the singing statues, presumably because of the wind in the crevices? It is mentioned in the Agatha Christie film "Death on the Nile". What did it supposedly signigy? Does it still do this since the temple was moved (the film/book are set in the 1930s) If anyone can add info, that would be great. Thanks!--Cbradshaw 03:01, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Like I said earlier I was there a few weeks ago and I never heard anything about them singing. They did say that the Colossi of Memnon sang but they were near Edfu. -Karin Marshall 8/17/08 Hi, Karin the Colossus of Memnon are in the Theban Necropolis on the west bank of Luxor and the singing is caused by the warming of the stones at sunrise. Merlin-UK (talk) 23:39, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Greek inscription

Should be something on the Abu Simbel Greek inscription... AnonMoos (talk) 16:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Wrong title

Abu Simbel is a town of some 9 th inhabitants. The article should be titled Abu Simbel temples. --peyerk (talk) 20:31, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

The name Abu Simbel is more commonly a synonym for the monuments, both in and outside of Egypt, which provides the justification for the Wiki redirect. In some places it is referred to as a town by the way, but the Egypt Tourist Authority calls it a "very small village" which sounds about right, (http://www.egypt.travel/city/index/abu-simbel) but either way not significant enough for its own page unfortunately. Parzivalamfortas 16:05, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Dates

I'm a new user and I dont know exactly where to ask my question, but I arrived here so I'll write it: in this version of Abu Simbel, the english, the construction dates are from "approximately 1264 B.C. until 1244 B.C."; in the spanish version (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Simbel) the dates are different "approximately 1284 B.C. until 1264 B.C." If anyone knows the correct ones please change them if you can. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Respawiki (talk • contribs) 10:34, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Small Temple

The caption "The gods Set (left) and Horus (right) adoring Ramesses in the small temple at Abu Simbel" makes me a bit uncomfortable. Are the gods really adoring him? I think "blessing" or perhaps "anointing" would be better, so in the spirit of BRD I've changed it to "bless." If someone can document that Rameses' ego was so big that he expected the gods to adore him rather than the other way around, I'll take my reversion like a primate (no, not by screaming imprecations and hurling poo: I'm a more mature, dignified primate).

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 23:41, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Name of article

Hi

Could someone explain why this article is called its current title rather than the official title of Nubian Monuments from Abu Simbel to Philae?

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 10:26, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

John Cummings: This article is about the two temples at the site of Abu Simbel. "Nubian Monuments from Abu Simbel to Philae" is a UNESCO designation that lumps together several sites, including Philae, Amada, Maharraqa, and Kalabsha. They were all built in different periods of Egyptian history and not very close to one another; Abu Simbel is 140 miles from Philae. A. Parrot (talk) 21:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

08:07, 5 February 2017‎ change

this is the only instance in Egyptian art that the statues of the king and his consort have equal size - wrong, refer to earlier statues of Amenhotep III and Tiye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SubRE (talk • contribs) 08:42, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

c class

https://ores.wmflabs.org/v2/scores/enwiki/wp10/787370480 -- Prose-proem (talk) 15:04, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Eroded Statues in the Sanctuary

Any idea why the statues in the sanctuary (The deepest part of the temple) are so eroded/disfigured. Because of UNESCO this must be one of the most studied temples in Egypt and yet I can find no explanation anywhere of why these statues, but no others in the temple are in such poor condition. A second question I cannot find an answer to is this, if the temple was finished in, Let us just say in Ramses reign, why are the side chambers unfinished? Any hints would be appreciatedSherlockh22 (talk) 22:54, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Great and Small Temples of Abu Simbel is obviously redundant with this page, and this one is longer established, more widely linked within the wiki, and more frequently viewed (see the pageviews comparison for the past 30 days). The creator of the smaller page edited for only three days in 2013, so I don't anticipate any objection from that quarter. Joostik, thank you for proposing the merge; I wasn't even aware that Great and Small Temples of Abu Simbel existed.

For these reasons, I don't think a formal discussion is necessary: any usable content from that article should be moved here. Unless somebody objects, I'm going to look over that article and carry out the merge within the next week or so. A. Parrot (talk) 21:16, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

I've carried out the merge, though I didn't incorporate much from that article into this one. I only added some background information to the Construction section (in this edit) and changed the section structure of this article to reflect more detail about the temple artwork and layout, making it a little more like the structure of the merged article. A. Parrot (talk) 20:39, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Side chambers Main Temple.

On my second visit I decided to photograph the side chambers. I took approx 64 pictures. The main reason is that I thought they may have been used as a school.

Everything in the Temple is perfectly aligned and yet these side corridors are all askew. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this subject. It has been a long time since I contributed but with a bit help I would publish all 64 photos of the side chambers.Sherlockh22 (talk) 19:57, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

None of the pictures show the skewing of the chambers or the holes in the wall, but I do have video of these things. Again I need help to upload.Sherlockh22 (talk) 20:04, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@Sherlockh22: The photos would be useful, though you may want to add them to Wikimedia Commons, not here; most of the photos that Wikipedia uses as resources are hosted there. If you can be more specific about what problems you are having, I may be able to help with the uploading process.

The side chambers in the Great Temple are called storage magazines in one of my sources, although I can't find more detail about it. The nature of Egyptian temple design makes it pretty unlikely that they were used as a school. A. Parrot (talk) 01:45, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

The main problem with uploading is that it is a big questionaire and I will have to fill it in 64 times. Is there any easier way?

Do you think the side chambers were carved at the same time as the Temple? None of them are straight. One of the chambers even has damage which is a hole in the wall through which you can (unintentionally) see into the next chamber.

The reason I think it was a school is 1; the Hieroglyphs and carvings are amateurish ( although the left hand chamber displays better workmanship) and 2; the unfinished Drawing. How can the Temple be finished but not the drawing?Sherlockh22 (talk) 10:36, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

@Sherlockh22: As far as I know there isn't a faster way to upload. All I can suggest is to look over the photos, choose which ones are most informative, and just upload them. They should probably be categorized in Category:Interior of the Great Temple of Abu Simbel, or, if you end up uploading most of the photos you have, a new subcategory titled something like "Side chambers in the Great Temple of Abu Simbel".

I don't have a lot of detailed information on Abu Simbel, and what sources I do have say little more about the side chambers than that they were used for storage. As far as I can tell the chambers are assumed to have been part of the original temple plan. Perhaps they were meant to be decorated but were left unfinished, or perhaps the artists who decorated the temple used them as a practice area—but that would only be speculation on my part. Without reliable sources, Wikipedia can't say more. A. Parrot (talk) 03:03, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I will consider these options. I do not wish to write on your article so can I point you toward the following site; https://www.planetware.com/nubia/abu-simbel-egy-asw-abusim.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sherlockh22 (talk • contribs) 17:04, 20 July 2019 (UTC) Sherlockh22 (talk) 17:06, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

I tried again to upload and now I remember how much pain Wikipedia introduced into my life. I think I will just not bother trying.Sherlockh22 (talk) 17:31, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 12 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 04:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

---

• Abu Simbel temples → Abu Simbel
• Abu Simbel → Abu Simbel (village)

– The name "Abu Simbel" in English commonly refers to the temples rather than the village. Abu Simbel temples is the first result for a Google query for "abu simbel" despite Abu Simbel being the closer literal match, and the first few pages of results are almost all about the temples and not the village. Britannica's article on Abu Simbel is likewise about the temples and not the village. Abu Simbel temples has nearly twice as many monthly page views as Abu Simbel, and some of the page views for Abu Simbel are presumably people who meant to go to Abu Simbel temples instead so the real ratio is likely even more lopsided. Rublov (talk) 02:48, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom. The term overwhelmingly refers to the temples. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:05, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support -- CaeserKaiser (talk) 15:32, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support. A. Parrot (talk) 15:51, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.