Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< Wikipedia:Arbitration

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Miskin (talk | contribs) at 23:43, 15 May 2007 (→‎On Swatjester's decision and AnI: updating). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Dispute resolution
(Requests)
Tips
Content disputes
Conduct disputes
Wikipedia Arbitration
Open proceedings
Active sanctions
Arbitration Committee
Audit
Track related changes
Shortcuts

A request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution for conduct disputes on Wikipedia. The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and review previous decisions. The entire process is governed by the arbitration policy. For information about requesting arbitration, and how cases are accepted and dealt with, please see guide to arbitration.

To request enforcement of previous Arbitration decisions or discretionary sanctions, please do not open a new Arbitration case. Instead, please submit your request to /Requests/Enforcement.

This page transcludes from /Case, /Clarification and Amendment, /Motions, and /Enforcement.

Please make your request in the appropriate section:

Arbitration Committee proceedings

Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.

[edit]
Open cases
Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Venezuelan politics (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 20 Apr 2024 04 May 2024
Mzajac (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) — Case suspended
[edit]
Recently closed cases (Past cases)
Case name Closed
Conflict of interest management 13 Apr 2024
Request name Motions  Case Posted
Amendment request: Conduct in deletion-related editing none (orig. case) 30 April 2024

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/How-to

Current requests

Bus stop

Initiated by John Carter at 14:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Bus stop, Cleo123, Scottperry, Demong, C.Logan, JJay, ObiterDicta, Metzenberg

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by User:Warlordjohncarter

A user who has already been blocked twice for editing to content regarding Bob Dylan and his inclusion on the List of notable converts to Christianity is continuing to use the talk page of that article to repeat his statement that in his belief the party in question does not qualify for inclusion in the article. That user has been repeatedly asked to substantiate in any way his justification for these statements, and has yet to provide in the eyes of the other editors involved (myself included - simply indicating that I may have a preexisting bias) any coherent argument based on policy and guidelines to support it. That user, User:Bus stop, has also specifically denigrated all parties who disagree with his position in language such as "Stop pretending he converted to Christianity" here, despite editors repeatedly providing sourced, verifiable information to that effect, explicitly stating that the parties who disagree with him, including those who have responded to a request for comment here are part of "an extremely small clique" who have a "clear agenda" relative to the Christianity project here, and a variety of other accusations at least bordering on personal attacks on those parties who disagree with him. This party has also recently nominated the article for deletion on the basis of his disagreement with its content, been the only party who was directly involved in a recent request for mediation here on the subject to not agree to such arbitration, and has explicitly described on his own user page his interest in this subject being an "obsession". It has been called to my attention on my talk page that it is possible to block certain editors from repeated posts on the same page. As several parties in this discussion have already indicated to this user that he never directly responds to any arguments made against him, but for the most part simply repeats his statement which has already been answered by others, I was wondering whether it might be possible to either limit the number of times he can post to the articles per day and/or to perhaps block him from editing the Bob Dylan and List of notable converts to Christianity entirely. He does seem to, according to others, engage in more constructive contributions elsewhere, so I don't think a total block or ban is necessarily appropriate. However, he has clearly already displayed less than complete objectivity in this matter. John Carter 14:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ObiterDicta

This dispute stems from an argument about the inclusion of one item on a list: Should Bob Dylan appear on List of notable converts to Christianity? I came to the debate only a few days ago, after seeing it on the biographies of living persons noticeboard, so I'm not really sure how involved I am. However, looking at the history of the talk page, it appears that Bus stop initially argued that Dylan should be excluded from the list because the sourcing was insufficient, but when sources were found (Encyclopedia Britannica, New York Times, etc.) that explicitly stated Dylan converted, Bus stop started arguing that the criteria for the list were invalid.

The discussion has become heated, although this is not entirely Bus stop's fault. At the present time, Bus stop (and perhaps one other editor) seems to be the only editor who wants Dylan completely excluded from the list. Currently, the discussion on the page revolves solely around the Dylan issue, which is unfortunate because the list clearly needs a lot of work. The discussion is going nowhere, as Bus stop is simply repeating arguments (many emotion laden, conclusory or filled with logical fallacies) that have already failed to convince the other editors on the page.

The dispute resolution process seems to have broken down here. An Article RFC was requested on whether to include Dylan, but did not solve the problem. Bus stop rejected mediation and does not appear open to a compromise version that would note parenthetically that Dylan no longer practices Christianity. There has not been a request for comment on Bus stop yet and perhaps one would be appropriate. However, a discussion on the Community Sanctions noticeboard was closed as pointless bickering and it seems that an RFC would simply be a rerun.

Statement by Bus stop

You don't contrive parameters to achieve the results that you want on a list. A list is more "results oriented" than an article written in sentences and paragraphs. Especially concerning a living person, an article written in prose (composed of sentences and paragraphs) can accurately convey a particular person's situation at a point in his life. A "list" does not lend itself as well to this. And once you start massaging the parameters of that list to achieve the results you want, you have thrown objectivity completely out the window. The list of converts to Judaism states at the very top that it is a list of Jews. That is important, because a list is incapable of conveying shades of grey. A list is an article in which the name of the person appears or does not appear. The list of converts to Judaism does not deal with those notable people who at some point in their lives might have dabbled in Judaism. If the person is alive and not practicing Judaism then they shouldn't be on the list of converts to Judaism. If anyone finds a non-Jew on the list of converts to Judaism that name should be removed. The list of converts to Christianity does not take this straightforward approach regarding itself. That list defines it's parameters as "those notable people who have ever converted to Christianity." That raises more than one problem. First of all conversion to Christianity is a notoriously amorphous thing: almost anything can constitute conversion to Christianity. But more importantly, those parameters are contrived. That contrivance does not serve any good purpose on Wikipedia. That contrivance is only about achieving desired ends. No editor defending this newfangled parameter has been able to tell me how this represents an improvement over the straightforward criteria employed by the "Jewish" list. It certainly represents a larger list. But is it a more accurate list? Is it fair to the living people on it who don't happen to be Christian? The contrived parameters represent a violation of WP:BIO#LIVING, WP:ADVERT, WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE, WP:NOT#SOAPBOX, and WP:NPOV. WP:NPOV says,

I contend that altering parameters to achieve results is a primary abrogation of neutrality.

There is of course plenty more a person such as myself can and should be saying on this issue and the stance I take on it. I will be glad to do more writing if called for. But for now I just refer you to the most recent Talk page discussion here. Please review that discussion for the gist of this matter. Especially in my first entry under that section title heading and my last two entries (as it stands now) I try to enunciate why I object to the parameters chosen by the list of converts to Christianity. Bus stop 20:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/4/0/0)

  • Accept. Kirill Lokshin 16:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Decline. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC) I believe that the community is capable of dealing with this matter without our assistance.[reply]
  • Decline. Seems to mostly be a content debate about a fairly minor issue. There has certainly been some problematic behaviour, but I don't see anything that would yet merit an ArbCom case. - SimonP 20:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Decline. Mackensen (talk) 20:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reject per above comments. FloNight 21:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Miskin

Initiated by ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. at 08:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Commenting parties
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Miskin, Mardavich, Dbachmann, Sam Blacketer,Alison.

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Swatjester

Incident started when I recieved an email from an aggrieved user, as well as a talk page message from Mardavich. Among other things, I was directed to the 3RR report on Miskin, which closed as "no vio" (mistakenly). I planned to correct Sam Blacketer's mistake, and give a cursory 24hr block for 3RR vio; upon block log review, I saw that Miskin had received several 3RR blocks, and blocks for disruptive editing/page moving; six blocks in total. They were all on the same topics: related to ancient Greece, Persia, Macedonia, etc. This fit in line with the 3RR request, and, given the extensive prior block history, I determined that Miskin was well aware of 3RR policy and intentionally chose to violate it. Given the priors, I extended my block to 1 month. (Perfectly reasonable considering blocks escalate: 24hr->48hr->1 week-> multiple weeks/month->year or longer) Sam Blacketer later agreed with the found violation. I should note now, that whether or not there were 4 reversions or not is of no consequence: WP:3RR allows for blocks with less than 4 reverts, and for partial reverts. Whether or not the 3RR was broke is indisputable: it was clearly broken.

In the email I received, I was warned that Miskin has "several admins in his pocket", some of who were named directly, and I was told that he would undoubtedly be unblocked immediately.

Dbachmann unblocked Miskin after I went to sleep, without consulting me first. I brought this up on AN/I for block review, which shows a wide, overwhelming array of support for the block, and a handful of editors disagreeing with either the block in general, or in some cases, the length. In compromise, Alison reblocked for 1 week, minus the 12 hours or so already spent. Newyorkbrad at first indicated intent to unblock, then stated that the consensus was towards remaining blocked.

I'm upset that despite the weight of WP:3RR and WP:BLOCK policy on my side, the block was undone without any sort of discussion. Miskin has a long history of disruptive editing, and contentious edits on the Ancient Greek/Macedonia area. I urge ArbCom to look at TWO distinct issues here:

  • The reasonableness of inital block length, and the subsequent unblocking without consultation, given the allegations from the email; and
  • Review of the disruptive editing habits of Miskin, including personal attacks, and 3RR violations.

This whole discussion is beginning to turn bitter and vitriolic, especially given the inexplicable behavior by Dbachmann, including allegations that I'm "a newbie admin throwing his weight around", and that I was playing some sort of "bad cop" routine. This seems like a colossal failure to assume good faith, something that a fellow administrator should know better by now. The tone of Dbachmann's response in this statement, being entirely incivil and inflammatory, further strengthens my argument.⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 08:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: In regards to Newyorkbrad's statement, I should state, I have no objection to Miskin being unblocked for the purpose of this ArbCom. If he edits other stuff during that time, fine. He'll have to be on his best behavior, which is what this is all about anyway: him misbehaving. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 19:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Miskin

On the 3RR

As I have pointed out many times in the past, I was consciously not edit-warring during my second and third reverts and I did not make a fourth revert in that article. User:Dharmender6767, a new user with no understanding of WP:POLICY, had been edit-warring all morning on May 11 and I had chosen not to participate [4]. I made my first revert when User:AlexanderPar showed support for User:Dharmender6767 by reverting to his version (despite blatant NPOV violations and editor consensus that were involved). At that point, my conscious participation in the edit-war (regarding my first revert) aimed at showing group preference and editor consensus [5]. Note that unlike other users, User:AlexanderPar had not participated in discussion up to that point, yet he had chosen to start reverting to the version of his preference and enforce User:Dharmender6767's disruptive behaviour (which some have called trolling). On the other hand I had been discussing this matter for days and had come to an agreement with various established, non-partisan users, hence my edit-summary "back to Raider - please participate in the ongoing discussion". All of this can be verified in the article's talk page, as well as my contribution list.

By that afternoon User:Dharmender6767 had, despite multiple 3RR warnings, broken 3RR in at least two articles and found himself listed under 3RR. It had become evident to everybody that he was not to be regarded as a serious contributor. The only user who had showed support for his edits was User:AlexanderPar, who, as I've already stated, had never participated in the article's Talk page up to that point (Dharmender had). On my second revert I was under the impression that User:Dharmender had already been blocked and that the rv-war had ended. My sole aim was to prevent having the article protected to a "bad" version while clear editor consensus was in favour of a different one. This was not intended as a participation to edit-warring and I tried to make this as clear as possible in my edit summary: "I'm only reverting so that the article won't get locked to the bad version". I waited until Dharmender was definitely blocked and after exactly 20 minutes I restored the "good" version one more time. This revert was done for the exact same reason as before, i.e. to keep up the consensus version in case of a possible article protection. There was no need to have the article protected because of a sole editor's disruptive behaviour, let alone having it protected to the bad version (it would actually going to show that disruptive behaviour may have an impact in wikipedia). As my edit summary reveals I had no intention of edit-warring: "with dharmender blocked the edit-war is over, so I'm likewise restoring the good version in case a protection is put". [6] This is as far as my three reverts go. I did make three reverts, yet only one of them was part of an actual edit-war, and even that one was made within reason (the editor had not participated in our lengthy discussion). Despite all accusations from involved editors like User:AlexanderPar, I did not participate in the edit-war that they instigated. It is at the least ironic to find myself punished, judged, and humiliated in such manner. One thing that should be noted is AlexanderPar's cunning behaviour. He awaited for other users to "waste" their reversions on Darmender's trolling, giving them the false impression that he had stopped supporting him. He then suddenly reappeared and reverted to his preferred non-consensus version, knowing that no-one would be able to contest him for another 24 hours.

His strategy was successful. All of a sudden more editors (belonging to a specific culture/ethnicity) showed up in order to offer support to the version of their preference, which involved undisputed NPOV violations. As a reaction to this, I felt that the only way of protecting NPOV would be to invite more non-partisan editors. Thus I left messages to a handful of editors and admins whom I knew to be familiar/interested in the topic at hand. At that point provokative statements were made against me in the Talk page, allegedly accusing me for "inviting my friends" (something that was amazingly believed later by Swatjester). The greatest irony in this was the fact that the editors of the opposing party were all known partisans of a specific pro-X ethnicity, while the rest of the editors were of mixed/irrelevant background, albeit familiar with ancient history topics. It was as if they were trying to stop me from involving more uninvolved editors. At that point two things were obvious to me:

  • The dispute's outcome was no longer decidedable by a clear editor consensus
  • The group of newcomers who supported Dharmender and AlexanderPar did not see NPOV as a priority (my queries in the talk page remained unanswered)

With that in mind I decided to start making fresh edits, in hopes of reaching a compromise solution between the opposing parties. I started by rewriting the fields in the infobox - which was by the way presented as an alleged fourth "partial revert". What was regarded as a fourth partial revert by Swatjester was in reality but a simple edit, largely attempting to make a compromise. I urge the arbitrators to make a comparison between the version of the undisputed three reverts [7] and the version of the alleged fourth "partial revert" [8]. This edit was of course reverted. Further proof that this edit was intended as a compromise would be next day's edit which was a copy-edit in the head, i.e. a part of the article [9]. It can be also seen that I was the first person to reassume good faith and bring this up in Talk. On the other hand AlexanderPar reached three reverts, all by conscious edit-war participation, without having offered prior input to the article's talk page.

On Swatjester's decision and AnI

On the next day I was puzzled to find myself blocked. The admin (swatjester) had not provided any concrete reasons for the block, as if it had been about something fairly obvious. I initially assumed that there had been a mistake, an IP confusion or something of the sort. I found out what actually went on when I visited swatjester's Talk page. The "group" of editors in question (whom I have confronted in several articles) had wanted me out of the picture. Apparently they had been trying to trap me under 3RR for a while now but with no luck [10]. It should be noted that the alleged 3RR violation which later got me blocked for one month, was initially judged as a non-violation [11] (correctly noticing that the alleged fourth revert was a compromise edit). The group of editors probably realised that the admins in the 3RR board were too experienced to fall for their scheme, and thus decided to approach an admin at random (or possibly one who enjoys giving out blocks). Of course their communication took place via email, so that no-one wouldn't be able to interfere. This is how they found Swatjester and convinced him that he had to "review" the violation [12]. In this manner Swatjester was manipulated to be used as their proxy, and suddenly, the non-violation becomes a one-month block [13].

After my block was put, I found myself getting judged and accused in AnI for irrelevant things, mainly in reference to my 3RR violations and disruptive behaviour that occurred in 2005, when I was admittedly an innexperienced, passionate editor with a poor understanding of WP:POLICY and its spirit. Some of those blocks were borderline cases and were removed, however that doesn't change the fact that I had consciously put myself in borderline situations. This is true for all 6 blocks I've received, _except_ the block of September 2006 which had no basis whatsoever (unilateral moves?) and was removed without prior thinking. Hence why I'm not counting it. I have repeatedly urged Swatjester to go through my contributions and find the last time I came close to edit warring, or even the last time I surpassed two reverts in 24 hours. He failed to find something. Similarly, I urge people like Guy who is accusing me below for being "a disruptive edit warrior whose behaviour continues despite numerous blocks" to do the same, i.e. find me those instances of recent disruptive editing and edit-warring. If it is so obvious as they claim, then it shouldn't be so hard to prove it with some diffs. If they also fail to do so, then I would like to ask from them to refrain from making baseless accusations. Same goes for User:Ryan Postlethwaite. I have expressed my feelings on this matter in my talkpage [14]. I find accusations about "admins in backpockets" very serious I would like to ask from the arbitrators not only to investigate those allegations (maybe by examining the content-dispute at hand), but also to hold the accusators responsible of their words. And this of course includes editors like User:Mardavich who deliberately spread those baseless rumours, as well as editors like User:Swatjester and User:Ryan Postlethwaite who have been so easily manipulated into believing it.

I must admit that in the beginning of this debate I was disappointed about two things:

  • How easily nationalist coalitions can manipulate admin opinion in order to breach NPOV
  • How unorganised and inefficient the AnI can be

Regardless, I initially didn't hold any grudges against Swatjester, despite the fact that he made it seem as if I had wronged him in a past life. I thought he had been manipulated by User:Mardavich and his associates (via email of course) into thinking that he was doing the right thing. I still believe that this is the case, however, after having witnessed the endorsement of "backpocket admins" allegations and other out-of-order statements [15], I just think that he's simply too dangerous to be an administrator. All that he gains in passion and good will is negatively compensated by his bad judgement and lack of common sense.

On the problem's root

The group/coalition of users mentioned above is composed mainly by editors such as User:Mardavich, User:Arash the Archer, User:Azerbaijani, User:AlexanderPar, all known supporters of a common ethno-cultural group, who have been frequently accused for making organised attempts at violating NPOV (though by now it has become more than a certainty). I have confronted those users in several articles, where they would usually form a majority over the neutral (non-partisan) editors and present a pseudo-consensus as an argument to violate NPOV (claiming always that consensus view is above everything). Most of the time it works because few people tend to stick up for NPOV against a majority, the average editor will let it go. I was one of those people who would not, and this is why I became a target of elimination.

In the case of Battle of the Persian Gate, User:Mardavich and User:Azerbaijani arrived just in time to balance out the consensus of the non-partisan editors. In order to violate NPOV by means of superiority, they came up with the story of "Miskin's friends" - aiming at preventing me from involving non-partisan editors (because they most likely knew that a neutral editor would not support their claims). In this manner, any editor who would oppose them, would potentially fit the description as "Miskin's friend", and therefore non-accountable. This explains much of the subsequent need to create rumours on "backpocket admins", implied by User:Mardavich in Swatjester's talkpage [16]. Those falsifications aimed at demonising Miskin and everyone who has ever supported him in his content-disputes. This becomes evident by the fact that all communication between Mardavich and Swatjester took place via email. In any case I was extremely surprised that such a primitive, malicious plan could ever be bought with such ease by a wikipedian, let alone an administrator. It should be noted that Mardavich's exact words were "Miskin has many admin friends", while the wording "admins in Miskin's backpockets" was coined by User:Swatjester (whose fitness for adminship should be seriously questioned).

The activity of the specific group of partisan/nationalist editors must become one of the central points of this ArbCom case, as this is what started it all. Strangely enough, those names were not even mentioned as "involved parties". Of course I won't fall down to the level to speak about "backpocket admins", but I think it goes to show how some people have got it all wrong. There's indeed a much greater problem than a non-existant 3RR violation. Miskin 23:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dbachmann

original issue: [17] Miskin (talk · contribs) was tempted into a fourth revert by Dharmender6767 (talk · contribs) (trolling account since blocked by Dmcdevit), which earned him a block of one month from Swatjester (talk · contribs), together with a warning that "Your disruptive editing will no longer be tolerated: the next block will be permanent".

This sorry story is an epic feat in the art of escalation on the part of Swatjester, turning a minor trolling incident into a frustrating shouting match. My take on it is summarized here. I am ready to believe that Swatjester in best faith believes that Wikipedia needs bad cops and manly decision-makers, but this very case proves him wrong. My gripe is that he keeps misstating the particulars in spite of better knowledge. I never "unblocked" Miskin, I shortened his block to the original 24 hours, which was an arguable penalty. My unblock wasn't "out of process" or "wheel warring", I reacted to {{unblock}} request as an uninvolved party, and immediately notified the blocking admin, advising him to take the matter to AN/I if he disagreed. Which he did, notably without notifying me, or without mentioning my concerns in his request entitled block review regarding "admins in troublesome user's back pocket", but instead of leaving it at that, he turned the incident into a matter of personal honour of bringing his felon to justice, harping ("REPEATEDLY") on Miskin having a history of disruptive editing back in 2005. Swatjester's block of Miskin wasn't Miskin's "SEVENTH" block for disruption as he puts it. As I established here, there were five previous blocks, three of them revoked before expiration, amounting to a total block time served of 56 hours, the last block, lasting for all of 38 minutes for "unilateral moves", dating to last September. This simply isn't the profile of the disruptive troll Swatjester wants to insist his chosen victim irredeemably is.

Swatjester's colossal failure to de-fuse, de-escalate, and acknowledge his mistakes does not bode well for his future admin career. I recognize his second RFA in February received near-unanimous support, but his recent actions prove the severe concerns expressed in his first one were only too justified. Taking this to RfAr in a huff is just a further show of unrestrained temper. dab (𒁳) 09:45, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sam Blacketer

(The first two paragraphs are a copy of what I wrote on the Administrators' Noticeboard)

Investigating this potential 3RR violation is by now making my ears bleed. When I closed the initial report it seemed to me that the central 'approach' issue in Miskin's reverts was whether the Battle of the Persian Gate should reflect the Encyclopaedia Iranica or the 'western consensus', with Miskin a supporter of the 'western consensus'. He had three clear reverts, but the edit at 18:44 looked more like a compromise: it demoted the 25,000 to 40,000 estimate to merely being "the western consensus" rather than stated as fact. For that reason, and the fact that I don't believe the 3RR should ever be used to stop editors being bold and trying to find a compromise, I held the 18:44 edit not to be a revert and closed as no violation (although Miskin was clearly sailing close to the wind).

Following that reasoning, I think the 10:21 edit was a revert, because the effect of it was to elevate the 'western consensus' about when casualties were inflicted into a clear factual statement in the article, in line with Miskin's previous reverts. For this reason there was a 3RR violation. I think that a 1 month was extreme, because Miskin's block history shows no 3RR blocks since 2005, and I disagree with SwatJester's comment in the block log that Miskin has "clearly no intent of editing constructively". He is a combative and forceful editor but he was discussing on the talk page throughout.

This case seems to have developed more into a discussion of administrative actions and the circumstances under which one admin can reverse the actions of another, and I think this may be a more productive line of inquiry (although the ArbCom has addressed it in other cases before). I'm not on any particular side in it. It may be worth drawing to attention (a) the fact SwatJester did not 'consult' me before blocking for one month, but told me he had done so; (b) Miskin has only twice had a block that was not commuted or cancelled, but they have been by different Admins; (c) no admin has stepped in to unblock for this violation, except Alison who commuted to 1 week (still a relatively long block) in line with community consensus. Another interesting issue in this case is the extent to which a block history dating from 18 months ago should be taken into account in determining behaviour now, and in this context I think SwatJester and JzG have (in different ways) overstated how problematic an editor Miskin really is. Sam Blacketer 11:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Christopher Parham

I don't believe Swatjester's block length, or his approach to Miskin in general, was appropriate. Miskin has thousands of article and article talk edits in the 17 months since his substantial troubles in December 2005. All indications developed so far are that, after a rude awakening, he is attempting to work constructively and within guidelines, and has until now mainly succeeded. Swatjester reacted to a relatively minor 3RR violation by blocking for one month and indicating that a further violation would result in an indefinite block. Threatening an indefinite block on a long-term, generally constructive user for two 3RR violations in the last 18 months or more seems very excessive. The block summary described Miskin as having "clearly no intent of editing constructively." Given Miskin's 18 months of generally acceptable behavior and thousands of article edits, this seems a highly inappropriate and unfair statement.

Thus I believe Dbachmann's assertion that Swatjester is "throwing his weight around" is understandable. At the very least, Swatjester employed WP:3RR and WP:BLOCK in a way actively detrimental to the best interests of the encyclopedia, alienating a generally constructive editor through the highly mechanical employment of escalating blocks. The fact that between applying an initial 3RR block and then extending it, Swatjester took a mere two minutes (5:55 to 5:57, see block log). I don't believe this is indicative of a thoughtful approach to blocking a long-term contributor for one month -- two minutes seems a short time to decide that someone with 7000 edits has no intent to improve the encyclopedia. I think it is indicative of a mechanical escalation that while perhaps common, produced an unhelpful result in this case. Dbachmann's failure to contact Swatjester before commuting part of the block is mitigated by the extreme nature of the initial block and block summary.

As for arbitration I do not see a basis for such at the moment. No significant dispute resolution has been attempted in either the edit wars which produced the problem or the recent dispute over the block. Miskin needs further improvement in his demeanor and editing practices, but I think that forgetting this incident, which caused significant understandable exacerbation, is the best first step in that process. (On 2nd thought, Guy is probably right that a revert parole may be helpful.) Christopher Parham (talk) 09:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Guy

SWATjester clearly failed in his duties as an administrator here: before blocking a prolific edit warrior with a long history of blocks for disruptive revert warring, one must first fill out Form 22356b in triplicate, submit the pink copies with form ADM996/02 to the Cabal, raise the issue on the Village Pump/Indulgences craved by humble admins and wait the statutory three months before assuming consensus exists to block a disruptive edit warrior whose behaviour continues despite numerous blocks.

Oh, wait, was that a tiny bit sarcastic?

Question 1: Is Miskin's editing practice a problem? Hell yes, some times at least. Has he learned from the numerous blocks and comments he's received about this? Hell no. No, that's unfair: he has learned some, but still sometimes reverts to type. So: ArbCom may have a job to do here. It is quite likely that a revert parole at least is in order, and perhaps some kind of article parole. Yes, Miskin is causing disruption and needs someone whose authority he is willing to accept to correct the problem.

Question 2: Was SWATjester's response to the latest bit of edit-warring problematic? Not especially. Maybe a week would have been uncontroversial, maybe some would dispute it altogether, but prolific edit warriors blocked for edit warring is not exactly an example of rouge admin abuse. At worst it's an honest mistake in the heat of the moment. If it is indeed a mistake, which is open to debate.

So. I'd say there is a problem to be fixed here, and some of those above seem to have misidentified it. We do accommodate problematic but on balance positive editors, like Giano, and I have no reason to believe Miskin's behaviour is unfixable, but he is clearly not an unproblematic editor. Guy (Help!) 11:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ryan Postlethwaite

I think Miskin's block log speaks for itself on a number of issues, regardless of when the blocks have been imposed, he is an edit warrer, he knows the consequences of his actions and knows that it will lead to a block. SWATjester's resonse to another 3RR violation was to block for a month, possibly a tad excessive, but certainly understandable given the circumstances. What the community has now settled on is a 1 week block which almost all agree is the correct action - therefore this request could seam moot. However, there are a couple of issues which the committee may wish to look at: Firstly, Miskin's conduct throughout hhis time here with the possibility of putting him on revert parole - I think this may be required here. Secondally, and perhaps the most serious, now I quote, Miskin seems to have "admins in his back pocket" and they seam all to willing to step up and unblock Miskin the minute he get's into trouble, I would suggest that ArbCom look at the conduct of these administrators (if there is firm evidence of who is responsible). Ryan Postlethwaite 11:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Cool Cat

I am here because I was prompted to. I haven't conducted an investigation nor am I aware of the edit behaviour of the users involved at this point so I am more than disqualified to actually comment in a meaningful manner. However, I feel User:Miskin should be unblocked so he can participate in this discussion. -- Cat chi? 12:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by commenting Ghirla

I confess to have never seen Miskin before yesterday but I tend to give credence to Dbachmann's characterization of him as a productive editor who made some mistakes in the distant past. I was prompted to decry the original month-long block for two simple reasons:

1. I was taken aback by this edit summary, which seem to have contained elements of baiting. One of Miskin's opponents apparently characterized him as an inveterate troublemaker in an e-mail to the blocking admin, which resulted in this controversial block. I don't believe that decisions about month-long blocks of long-standing contributors are supposed to be taken as a result of private communications in a spirit of secrecy and obfuscation.

2. Several commentators on WP:ANI were keen to justify the block by allusions to Miskin's apparently "dirty" log. I urge the arbitrators to comment on the developing practice of appeals to block logs. When someone cited Miskin's positive contributions, he was told that it does not matter. On the other hand, negative contributions are taken into account and remain a permanent stain. I assure you that I'm not the only one who fails to understand why an unfairly smeared block log should remain a "permanent record." Please clarify. --Ghirla-трёп- 14:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ploutarchos

Hello. To my understanding this is how the events unfolded:

Miskin was reported for violating the 3RR. The first admin to decide the case decided that it was not worth blocking him. Swatjester then turns up and decides that he will block Miskin for one month for the purported 3RR violation and claims that Miskin has"clearly no intent of editing constructively". Swatjester came into this after a bit of forum shopping against the original decision [18] and a purported e-mail. Regarding the e-mail, God knows what was written in it, but it was obviously pure poison (and likely contained plenty of blatant lies too), so as to cause Swatjester to take action in the unproportionate, abrasive, bully-like and perhaps even fanatical way he did. As for who the sender was, we are not told, although I have a pretty shrewd idea myself of who it was.

I strongly disagree with Swatjester's handling of the issue. Miskin has not been blocked for violating the 3RR since 2005. He has been more active since then [19] without violating the 3RR; in my view that does not constitute proof that Miskin had "clearly no intent of editing constructively" (as Swatjester puts it). I suspect the influence of that e-mail here; as far as I can tell, Swatjester's view does not emerge from the facts. That one month block was totally out of proportion, considering it was inflicted without warning on a user who had not been blocked for violating the 3RR in 17 months. Claims of aggravating elements are not to be taken seriously IMO - Miskin's conduct on that page was no worse than that of any other editor there. That sudden one month block was so ridiculous that it was obvious from that start that t would eventually get overturned and it came as no surprise to me that that was the outcome of Miskin's appeal (adding the unblock template). Questions posed by Swatjester over the legitimacy of this action resulted in this dispute.

There's much more for me to say, but it has already been covered by other editors, so there's no reason to flood this page further.

Requests to the committee
  1. It is my firm belief that AlexanderPar (talk · contribs · block log) is a sockpuppet of a user banned from editing Iran-related articles in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman, probably SouthernComfort (talk · contribs · block log). I consider this issue relevant as AlexanderPar was a participant in the edit war which got Miskin blocked. Resources controlled by the committee such as temporary restoration of deleted evidence and IP checks will be necessary for this.
  2. Could the committee issue guidelines on how to interpret certain ambiguities in policy, such as the status of open proxy edits, edits by banned users (including those on partial/topic bans), edits made in violation of a revert parole etc for the purposes of assessing a 3RR violation. This issue was raised by me (and heavily disputed) during the discussions and a definitive answer by the committee could be useful in future cases.

Statement and motion by Newyorkbrad

I must be missing some aspect of this entire situation, which has spun out of control in a rapid, remarkable, and regrettable way. I am frankly shocked that in less than 24 hours this matter has been transformed from a routine allegation of a 3RR violation into an arbitration case.

I was planning to place a statement here, but given that the case now seems destined for acceptance, I will wait until the case opens (if it does) and present my detailed thoughts on the /Evidence page.

This may be procedurally premature until the case opens, but I move (or when the case opens will move on the /Workshop, but this page has a level of attention that the Workshop right after the case opens will not, so I'd prefer for the matter to be addressed now) that Miskin be unblocked so that he can participate in the case. I do not believe that such unblock needs to be limited to editing the arbitration pages only (although that would obviously be better than nothing). There is recent precedent for allowing a full unblocking of case participants in these circumstances (see, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar 2/Workshop#Proposed temporary injunctions), and I do not believe that Miskin represents such a clear and present danger to the encyclopedia that he needs to remain blocked during the case. In fact, it would obviously be quite foolish for him to be on anything other than his best behavior while an ArbCom case was pending against him. Newyorkbrad 17:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Aldux

I'm probably the admin that has most often interacted, as well as most often clashed, with Miskin, as it's almost two years I know him, and I can say that Miskin, while he remains often too confrontational on talk pages, has made enormous progresses, as from his block log should be blatantly evident, and has become a quality mainspace contributor; punish him for misbehaviour committed in 2005 seems to me by far excessive, and more important, of no help to the encyclopedia. With all the respect for the original blocking admin, Swatjester, I believe he has committed an obvious misjudgement, reacting, to use the same words of Cristopher, "to a relatively minor 3RR violation by blocking for one month and indicating that a further violation would result in an indefinite block."--Aldux 22:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ViridaeTalk

I followed this on WP:ANI and feel compelled to comment here. Old blocks should have no bearing on treatment of a user, if they are completely clean and completely changed, but as I stated at ANI, that he has broken 3RR again, a rule he is quite obviously very aware of because as evinced by the block log, justifies a harsher block than what would have been imposed on an editor that broke the rule for the first time. If, he had only broken 3RR once or twice during his initial time at wikipedia, I would agree that a longer block would be harsh. But considering that he broke 3RR (and was blocked for it - it is not entirely unreasonable to assume that some 3RR offenses go unreported) a total of 5 times previously, then I don't think the week long block imposed by Alison is at all unreasonable. No editor in good standing should have cause to break 3RR ever. Simple as that.

On the subject of the subsequent, unblocking and re-blocking. I believe that the month long block imposed by Swatjester was overly harsh. However that it was shortened by (what I believe to be) an admin with a conflict of interest, having had many interactions with Miskin previously, without refferal to the blocking admin or either of the administrators noticeboards is extremely bad form. Undoing another admins actions without discussion is at least tantamount to wheel warring and is very bad form. ViridaeTalk 02:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Alison

I became involved in this issue when it was posted to WP:ANI. User:Swatjester originally requested a review of his block of User:Miskin. I commented that the block log looked a little strange as there were a number of block reversions in his past. Almost immediately, an increasingly heated discussion started up about the length of the 1-month block that SJ imposed. Some hours later, things were not much better and comments were starting to get personal. At this point, about 4 hours after User:Dbachmann had reduced SJ's original block to 15 hours from 1 month, I stated that I would be bold and set the block to a total of 7 days.[20] I waited a short while, then imposed a block of 6 days (7 less the theoretical 1 day already served). I did this as an uninvolved admin in full view of the community, with a view to achieving some sort of consensus, with a certain fairness towards the blocked editor and with the intent of defusing a situation which was already getting more and more heated. In retrospect, this didn't happen, though the block held and at least it didn't degenerate into wheel warring.

Subsequent to this, some unfortunate comments regarding my decision being "patent bad judgement" were posted to the blocked user's talk page. This certainly didn't help matters. My comment on User:Miskin's talk page had read as follows; "Re. to the discussion on WP:ANI, I have modified this block to extend it to 1 week, less 24 hours for the existing block time. One month is too long. However, you have repeatedly violated the 3RR rule and, given the amount of time you have been here and your previous 3RR history, you should really be familiar with the rules at this point".

User:Miskin then sent me a polite email requesting unblocking. I declined as the blocking admin and suggested they use the {{unblock}} tag to ensure an uninvolved admin reviewed the block and decided accordingly. Miskin did not subsequently email but instead, posted an {{unblock}} request. The debate re-started on ANI at this point, with User:Newyorkbrad suggesting unblock. I later replied stating that while I'd personally be against unblocking at this point, I would however, defer to community opinion. My comment was as follows; "as the current blocking admin, I'd like to say that while I would personally be opposed to lifting the block at this time for numerous reasons, I would certainly defer to community opinion here. Given that the matter was brought here in the first place by SJ for that very reason, that is the most appropriate response. Having said that, I have to say I am disappointed by the way this whole issue was handled here by numerous people on all sides of this heated debate; the assumption of bad-faith on behalf of others, the incivility, the making of grossly inappropriate comments on the talk page of the blocked user in question, the email campaign that started up. And on it goes. While blocking for 3RR violation is not meant to be a punishment, I don't feel the user in question has learnt from this experience. My one-week re-block was done in good faith to prevent this whole issue getting out of hand, which ultimately it ended up doing anyway". Newyorkbrad stated then that it appeared that the consensus was to maintain the block & I agreed.

That ended my involvement in this case. Later on, User:Ryan Postlethwaite would overturn my block to enable User:Miskin to take part here, a decision I find to be entirely acceptable.

I'd like to point out, too, that I felt the original 1-month block to be excessive. Blocking is never meant to be punitive and would like to say that my 1 week block was not meant in that way.

It was commented early on that User:Miskin had "admins in his back-pocket". While this is just hearsay and I certainly disregarded this comment when imposing the block, I'd like ArbCom's opinion regarding it. It's worrying on a number of levels; that there may be some truth to it and that if not, someone is spreading that rumour by email. - Alison ☺ 21:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Pan Gerwazy

Though I think I have never met User:Miskin, I find it rather strange that after administrators conceding or at least not denying that the very edit which sparked the canvasing for a block against him, was in reality an attempt at finding a compromise, he should now be accused of incivility, being a disruptive editor, not having learnt his lesson, and so on. The long block that it took an administrator two minutes to decide, was not even the subject of a warning. Having been involved in and witnessed a number of nationalist POV induced discussions, I would tend to think that seen in this light, the one-month block seems at least somewhat excessive.

However, the main point of my coming here is to express my astonishment that although User:Swatjester promised that both sides of the edit warring would be investigated ([21]), User:AlexanderPar is not mentioned as an involved party, which he obviously is, as he participated both in the edit warring and in the discussion on WP:ANI.

I also strongly support User:Ploutarchos's second request to the Committee. This must be cleared once and for all. For instance, can an anonymous IP who is forever reverting, even after receiving a warning on his talk page and not denying that he is a sockpuppet of a permanently banned user impose his version for 23 hours because established users do not dare infringe 3RR ([22])? In that case, the sock had the misfortune that editors defending the consensus did not all live in the same time zone - but that is not always the case in tribal wars.--Pan Gerwazy 11:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

Recuse from any clerk activity in this case. Newyorkbrad 08:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Added Miskin's statement from his talk page. Thatcher131 13:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (7/0/0/0)

PalestineRemembered

Initiated by WooyiTalk to me? at 00:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
I have informed both parties here and here.

Statement by Wooyi

I am not personally involved in this case, however, I spotted Wikipedia:Community sanction noticeboard#PalestineRemembered again. The initiating administrator, Jayjg, was eager to ban the user PalestineRemebered because Jayjg alleged PR has inserted fraud and deception to Wikipedia articles relating to Israel/Palestine. However, there are many disputes about the allegations, and the things are a lot more complicated than the scope of WP:CN. Some editors there suggest ArbCom investigation into this matter. The discussion now is starting to be an ugly mess. I urge ArbCom to investigate and give a just decision.

Addendum: The comments below by editors from both sides, either advocating the ArbCom to take or not take the case, actually demonstrate the need for ArbCom to investigate. Things appear that there is even a personal feud between several established, longtime editors. WooyiTalk to me? 02:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor ChrisO

I concur with Wooyi's referral (I am also not personally involved in the case). The allegations against PalestineRemembered are essentially ones of POV-pushing, incivil editing conduct and falsification of sources. There is certainly a case for PalestineRemembered to answer here, though in my judgment credible counter-arguments have been made on at least some of the allegations. Unfortunately the community's ability to resolve this matter is seriously hampered by the partisan edit wars on articles relating to this case and the direct involvement of the initiating administrator in clashes with PalestineRemembered. Some users have already raised questions about the fairness and transparency of the proposed community sanctions against PR (I make no judgment on that point, but I note the presentational difficulties it raises). I believe that a review by the Committee is the only way a satisfactory resolution to this matter is going to be found. -- ChrisO 01:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Added) The debate below, and especially the increasingly vitriolic debate at WP:CN, indicates that the community cannot satisfactorily resolve this issue by itself - there's simply too much partisanship, bad feeling and simple confusion to make that possible now. Resolving it will require the attention of cool-headed neutrals, but neither cool-headedness or neutrality has been much in display on either side here. I concur 100% with Tony Sidaway's view - this is indicative of the wider problem that afflicts our Middle Eastern articles. I hope jpgordon and Flonight reconsider their decision not to accept the case. -- ChrisO 18:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tony Sidaway

I see no reason why this problem can't be resolved within the community. A ban is almost certain to result soon if this fellow doesn't change his ways. --Tony Sidaway 01:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion on Community sanction noticeboard is explosive and shows no sign of abating. This is obviously a touchstone for a much deeper problem, and I think this merits deeper investigation through by arbitration committee. --Tony Sidaway 18:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Jayjg

I brought User:PalestineRemembered to WP:AN/I board after a long history of violations of various Wikipedia policies, such that he has been blocked for a total of four months out of his entire seven month editing history. User:PalestineRemembered is a self-admitted Single Purpose Account who has been quite open about his agenda; soon after returning from the most recent block he inserted material into an article which seriously misrepresented his sources. A discussion on banning him commenced, and a strong consensus for the ban developed, with 21 editors, mostly admins, in favor; the main exceptions were four editors who have been involved in a longstanding and ongoing series of disputes with me on various articles and Talk: pages, and one editor who is fundamentally opposed to community sanctions of any sort. There is no Arbcom case here, as the community has spoken. Jayjg (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor G-Dett

PalestineRemembered's infraction consisted of citing material to the original primary source (a now-defunct New Zealand newspaper) rather than the secondary source he found it in (a work of scholarship by Sami Hadawi). No evidence has been provided that PR meant any deceit or knew he was violating WP:CITE#Say_where_you_got_it. Banning a user from Wikipedia on the strength of this mistake is extreme. What is especially unsettling, moreover, is that the user who brought PR's error to attention and initiated this process accused PR – falsely as it turns out – of lifting his material from a Holocaust denial website and therefore citing the primary source in order to cover his guilty tracks [23]. This allegation was offered as if it were a conclusive finding, and – despite a lack of supporting evidence – was initially accepted at face value. By the time the Holocaust-denial allegation was shown conclusively to be false (PR's source was a 1989 book; the spuriously adduced Holocaust-denial source was written sometime after 1995), a motion was already underway to have him banned. The editor who made the false accusation has yet to retract it (and in fact has oddly gone on to suggest that the 1989 source may have plagiarized the post-1995 source [24]). If there are other reasons to have PR banned, then they should be taken up holistically after the present cloud of specious guilt-by-association blows over. As things stand now, the false and incendiary charges regarding Holocaust denial have irreversibly tainted the proposal and the ensuing discussion. Clarification: having read Durova's post below, I want to clarify that I am well aware that there are legitimate issues regarding PR's behavior in the past, which I've noted both on the Community Sanction Noticeboard and on the user's talkpage. My above statement applies to the present infraction, and to the debate about banning that it has set into motion.--G-Dett 01:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by non involved Navou

I would encourage the Arbitrators to look into this case, as it appears to have become complex. WP:CN was designed for simple cases, and this is not simple.

Statement by uninvolved editor IronDuke

On the CN board, as of this writing, the consensus seems to be favoring banning PalestineRemembered by a ratio of roughly 20 to 5 (and a fair number come from editors who do not edit regularly in this area). Of the objectors, most are resting on process concerns. No one will defend this user's behavior. I think this user will almost certainly be banned whether it is left solely to the community or arbcom takes it up. IronDuke 02:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor Proabivouac

I don't understand the reason for opening an Arbitration case. No one can reasonably allege either that Jayjg's accusations were wholly false, or were made in bad faith. Palestine Remembered by his own admission cited a source he hadn't read, he is a single-issue sockpuppet whose record is widely acnowledged as questionable, and having seen the same material on the site of a notorious Holocaust denier, Jayjg made the obvious call. The only questions are whether Palestine Remembered engaged in major fraud or merely totally unacceptable citation practices, and whether he should or should not be community banned.Proabivouac 02:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by FeloniousMonk

I don't think there's really anything to arbitrate here: there had consistently been at WP:AN/I and WP:CN a roughly 75 percent consensus for banning; a clear consensus that seems to have grown to 80 percent + in the last hour. And I've seen absolutely no evidence Jayjg has done anything wrong, all he did was bring the issues with PalestineRemembered to the community's attention at WP:AN/I, the community did the rest, and Jayjg didn't lobby for the ban. On the other hand, CJCurrie, who has a long-running personal issue with Jayjg and been quite peevish toward both of us since I blocked his pal HOTR, has been agitating very hard at WP:CN to rally others against Jayjg, along with G-Dett, which might be worthy of the committee's review... FeloniousMonk 02:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Durova

Claims that the community ban discussion hinges on a single misuse of references are disingenuous. This account has been blocked for four of its seven months of existence. This is a classic case of disruptive editing from a single purpose POV-pusher who, as diffs at the WP:CN thread amply demonstrate, is a habitual edit warrior who ignores basic policies such as WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:NPA. Citation misuse is the final straw, in my opinion, but far from the only straw on this camel's back.

The argument in PalestineRemembered's defense amounts to one red herring: it inflates the user's admission to misusing WP:CITE from a different source than Jayjg had originally attributed into an accusation of impropriety against Jayjg, then dismisses all other evidence against PalestineRemembered. That and some background fireworks among editors who favored the recent WP:MFD proposal for the noticeboard are the only actual points of contention.

This editor is headed toward a community ban, if not now then very soon, and there is little to examine here. ArbCom doesn't need another circus like Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Gundagai editors. DurovaCharge! 02:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In reply to a comment below about defense, the general practice at WP:CN is to reference defense statements that blocked editors post to their own user talk pages. Templates have been created to repost at the board for this purpose. DurovaCharge! 07:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus at the ban discussion shifted since my original statement and, due to general contentiousness, I now support arbitration. A request at my user talk page asked for clarification on my position, which might shed light here.[25] I originally supported a ban based not upon Jayjg's connection to a holocaust denial site but because four months of blocks placed this editor one mistake away from sitebanning, in my opinion, and a WP:CITE violation was enough. PalestineRemembered's defense admitted a WP:CITE violation (although a different specific instance of it) and failed to recognize the inherent problems of violating WP:CITE. That was my personal analysis, but the nexus of Holocaust denial and Arab-Israeli conflict drew numerous editors who were unfamiliar with WP:CN. The community process does what it can, but ArbCom exists for the tough stuff. So to paraphrase Bette Davis, Fasten your seatbelts. This arbitration is going to be a bumpy evening. DurovaCharge! 06:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor Hornplease

I am not sure either that there is anything to arbitate here. Jayjg appears to have brought what he considers a problem editor to AN/I; that he at the time jumped to the conclusion that the editor's error in citation sprung from a holocaust denial website and thus implied that the fact being inserted were fraudulent and that the editor in question was misrepresenting sources to get holocause denial literature onto wikipedia is unfortunate, but not really something that ArbCom is likely to want to pronounce judgment on.

About PalestineRemembered's behaviour: if he is, indeed, generally considered a disruptive editor, then the community sanction noticeboard should manage to take care of it. I notice the last of his blocks was for a month, and for the following statement:[26]; I imagine that that block had the support of the community, since nobody undid it. If any admin undoes the block, then I imagine an arbitration case can open.

For the record, I think that indefblocking for a violation of WP:CITE when introducing material that, as I have said elswhere [27] seems to be widely known, is excessive, even if the account has been blocked for four months out of seven. Durova's argument above, which is very helpful, puzzles me just a little; if PR was such a disruptive editor, he should have been indefblocked earlier, and this relatively harmless violation of WP:CITE should not be indicative of wholesale backsliding. I also can't find diffs at CN to disruptive editing, only to remarks on talkpages. Hornplease 03:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just an additional word about comments that SlimVirgin below puts in bold for some reason completely unknown to me. "But PR has made 206 edits to the encyclopedia, many of them his original research, every one of them that I've seen badly written and badly sourced." First, if a SPA editing in a controversial area (which is a perfectly legal use of an SPA, I understand) has made 206 edits (256 by my count), to mainspace, and a little more than that to talkspace, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Secondly. looking through his contributions all of them have informative and largely polite edit comments; and none that I have seen are 'badly written' - this is simply untrue, and unworthy of stating at a RfArb. Hornplease 19:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor Jossi

I think this is a waste of arbitrators' time. A community ban is well supported and most certainly well deserved. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by CJCurrie

I have no strong opinion as to whether or not the ArbComm should hear this case at the present time, but would like state for the record that I strongly object to User:FeloniousMonk's description of my recent interventions. CJCurrie 03:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor GHcool

PalestineRemembered is the poster child of the single-purpose account. If the purpose was benign (for example, to educate the world about Palestinian history), I don't think most editors would have a problem with PalestineRemembered. However, PalestineRemembered's agenda is clearly not benign. Virtually every non-minor edit PalestineRemembered made was specifically intended to demonize Israel and Israelis, often without regard for verifiability, reliable source citation, or NPOV. If I truly "remembered Palestine" and wanted to keep that memory alive, I would probably spend my time elevating the integrity of such articles as Palestine, Palestinian cuisine, Palestinian Arabic, Flag of Palestine, Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Keffiyeh, and other Palestine-related articles. PalestineRemembered, on the other hand, would rather lurk on talk pages and articles such as Battle of Jenin, Patria disaster, Israeli settlement, Anti-Americanism, Konrad Adenauer, Lehi, Irgun, and Shmuel Katz. PalestineRemembered has called Israelis and Israeli sympathizers "proud ... of their murderous racism," [28] "a lot nastier and more dangerous than anything we've seen since 1945,"[29] and unreliable as sources[30] (of course, when PalestineRemembered needs to use the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs for his own edits,[31] then its completely reliable). This guy has been blocked several times and just doesn't learn. He has been given many opportunities to reform and edit in peace, but, to paraphrase Abba Eban, PalestineRemembered never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity! Its time for a permanent ban. --GHcool 04:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor Nadav1

PalestineRemembered has not been given the chance to fully respond to all the allegations against him. The CSN disscussion has been proceeding at full speed ahead even though he was blocked shortly after it began. Everyone should be given a fair hearing when the punishment is so grave. nadav 06:37, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, in the very few times I have come across his contributions, I have found them to be tinted by his POV. I support ArbCom taking this up merely so that the decisions reached may be fair and indisputable. nadav 10:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor Gatoclass

PalestineRemembered has only been an editor for seven months, and apparently been banned for four of them (for incivility). He's been banned three times in fairly rapid succession by Felonious Monk, who has obviously taken a dim view of him, and once by his accuser here, Jayjg. I note that Jay's ban at least was imposed for incivility over a generalized comment rather than a personal attack.[32][33] Whether or not Monk's bans were unduly harsh I don't know, but the end result of this quick succession of bans is that PalestineRemembered has only accumulated about three months of editing experience. Perhaps that inexperience should be taken into account when reviewing his case.

Secondly, I think it might be instructive to compare the repeated denunciaton of PalestineRemembered on CSN as a "self confessed Single Purpose Account" - and his subsequent summary permablock - with the treatment of defacto SPA's on the Israel-Palestine pages like Zeq and Amoruso, who have been adding unsourced or poorly sourced POV edits at least as bad as PR's for literally years and gotten nothing more than a slap on the wrist for it. And what exactly has PR done wrong since his last ban except this one apparent violation of WP:CITE? What evidence has been produced other than this one minor infraction? Seems to me there's quite a double standard at work here.

Also, I personally have scarcely had time to review PR's edit history, and I wonder how many others could have had time to do so. But a quick look through his recent edits suggests to me that he is an articulate editor who has the capability to become an effective user, assuming of course that he learns to control his tendency for incivility (which he seems to have done in recent weeks), and to work more productively with other users.

So I certainly think this move to permaban for what is a very minor infraction is overhasty and unjust. I also agree with G-Dett that the initial vote was tainted by Jayjg's (apparently incorrect) allegations about PR's use of a Holocaust denial site. Surely editors deserve a more comprehensive process before the ultimate sanction is applied? Gatoclass 06:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have just exhaustively been through all 97 of PalestineRemembered's talk page contributions since his return on 6th April from his last ban, and I found only one that might conceivably be construed as a little uncivil (and that one of the oldest). On that basis, it seems to me that he obviously is learning how to behave on Wiki. Furthermore his edits to talk pages are almost uniformly intelligent and articulate, indicating that he does have the capacity to make a worthwhile contribution if he puts his mind to it.
Given that the original charge against him from Jayjg now appears to be bogus, there would seem to be no immediate reason at all to ban him, unless it were to be based solely on the quality of his contributions to articles - and as I've indicated above, there are active users on the Is-Pal pages with far more entrenched records of disruption and POV warring than PR. Gatoclass 15:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by not really involved Swatjester

On Wikipedia talk:Single-purpose account, PalestineRemembered self identified as a single purpose account with the intent of pushing POV. I was actually planning on indefnitely blocking the user myself based on that, but apparently the community has decided as well. In the face of overwhelming community consensus that PalestineRemembered is incredibly disruptive, this case is little more than a witch-hunt against Jayjg, and Arbcom should reject it. Alternatively, if accepted, the clear weight of policy and community consensus falls on the side of Jayjg. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 08:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by SlimVirgin

Some users have tried to turn this into an opportunity to attack Jay, but he has done nothing wrong. He reported the issue to AN/I (later moved to CSN), which was the right thing to do, and so far 21 editors have supported a ban. Some of the editors who haven't supported it (five when I last looked) have opposed it only because it was Jay who initiated the discussion, and their objections boil down to complaints about process. PalestineRemembered is a disruptive editor, and a bad one. SlimVirgin (talk) 09:00, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Zero's statement: We're sliding into the inevitable cant and hypocrisy. Zero protests the community ban because PalestineRemembered is a "long-term editor," and therefore shouldn't be removed without more process. But PR has made 206 edits to the encyclopedia, many of them his original research, every one of them that I've seen badly written and badly sourced. On the other hand, Zero was quite happy to indefblock Zeq himself in May last year, [34] though he was in numerous content disputes with him, and Zeq had made considerably more edits (currently 2,000 to articles, 8,000 overall) than PalestineRemembered. SlimVirgin (talk) 12:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by PalestineRemebered (copied from the user's talk page)

I believe I have "learnt lessons" from previous comments and sanctions.

  1. - I have stopped using the word "Zionist"
  2. - I am as careful as I can be about my information.
  3. - I am as careful as I can be about OR.
  4. - I have sometimes been guilty of incivility, but I believe I have mended my ways.
  5. - I have been misunderstood over comments concerning "ethnic labelling". I find all such references unnecessary and unhelpful, and have (occasionally) sought to persuade other users not to categorise.
  6. - I have created at least one well-established and stable page Naeim Giladi. Only circumstances have prevented others.
  7. - I have never edit-warred (good edits lost in the interests of AGF?)
  8. - Despite this, I have good edits to my credit.

I have repeatedly explained, apologised and sought guidance on my UserName. I am open to suggestions concerning it.

I have been challenged to say where I first saw the "Lord Moyne's killers buried on Mt Herzl" information - I'm not sure, but it was likely in a usenet group/Forum. It would *not* have been in a group patronised by Holocaust Deniers, whom I've always despised (cites if necessary, under my real name too). PalestineRemembered 08:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comment by PalestineRemembered
  • I would like to be credited with never having tried to evade my bans (nor appeal against them until now).
  • I like to think of myself as a well-behaved editor who accepts the words and decisions of those wiser and more experienced than me.
  • After early and potentially uncivil attempts to discover policy from administrators, I have avoided any clash with them. My sole concern has been to insert good information into the encyclopaedia.
  • I continue to believe that in the article under challenge [35] I was acting as an editor should do, inserting (three different) points of information (all of which) I believed to be relevant and well sourced. I have seen nothing to indicate that I was being disruptive of the encyclopaedia in this case.

I am now confident there are no "Single Purpose Account" issues with my UserName.[36] The reasons I gave [37] for editing as an SPA are entirely acceptable under policy. I attempted to get guidance on policy, though this was not forthcoming - this may be similar to other problems I have had attempting to get guidance (see above).

People might wish me to change my UserName, that's a slightly different point, I am perfectly prepared to do this if my fellow editors think it would be beneficial.

Subject to correction and the feelings of all in the project, I believe my participation and editing should be welcome at Wikipedia. PalestineRemembered 10:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC) (edited and expanded PalestineRemembered 10:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)}[reply]

Statement by Ryan Postlethwaite

I'm sorry, but I have to say that PalestineRemebered is a chronic POV pusher. Being blocked for 4 months out of the 7 he's been here does not suggest to me that this user is a very good contributer. I would possibly go as far to say he's been trolling over his username on a number of occasions. I fully support his ascertation that he is an SPA. As to whether this ArbCom is to proceed, I would suggest you take it on board - the community sanction board has turned into a farce regarding this user, with no clear way of gaining a consensus of a community ban, and his behaviour goes far beyond the scope of the initial complaint there. I think the clarity of ArbCom is needed to take it out of the communities hands. Ryan Postlethwaite 09:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Zero

I sincerely hope that the committee examines all aspects of this incident.

My summary: PalestineRemebered was blocked mostly on the basis of a mistaken charge brought by an editing opponent, after a meagre few hours of discussion where almost no evidence was produced, with scarcely any opportunity to defend himself. In my opinion, this represents a failure of due process that should be corrected, and raises serious questions about how WP:CSN operates.

Various points:

  1. The context of the incident was an edit war between PalestineRemebered and Jayjg (and some others) at Zionist political violence. PalestineRemebered wanted to insert some material which at least prima facie is relevant to the page, and Jayjg kept deleting it. (The material, btw, is mostly factually correct and is either sourced or easily sourcable. I'm not here taking a position on whether it is better in the article or elsewhere.)
  2. In my opinion, PalestineRemembered's behavior on Zionist political violence was not worse than Jayjg's behavior.
  3. Jayjg devoted almost no effort to explaining his deletions either in edit summaries or on the Talk page, until he accused PalestineRemebered of getting some of his information from a Holcause Denial site (IHR). This accusation is factually incorrect.
  4. 18 minutes later, Jayjg repeated the IHR charge on AN/I [38].
  5. While more general accusations were made, almost no evidence for them was presented but only non-specific assertions. Some contended that PalestineRemebered should be blocked for violating WP:CITE#Say where you got it even if Jayjg's charge was wrong, but WP:CITE is a guideline, not a policy. Furthermore, the majority in favor of blocking is meaningless since it is clear from the comments that many were misled by Jayjg's incorrect accusation.
  6. PR was first blocked only 18 minutes after being notified that there was a discussion about him. Only 5 hours and 7 minutes elapsed between the notification and the final block. That is not enough time for a proper discussion (some of us were asleep the whole time) and certainly not enough time for PalestineRemembered to argue in his own defence.

My recommendation: The committee should

  1. Examine the case against PalestineRemebered properly. This has not been done so far. If it is found that he should be banned, then ban him.
  2. Examine the operation of WP:CSN and consider whether constraints on its operation should be imposed. In particular, consider whether long term blocks of established editors should be imposed without those editors having a fair chance to defend themselves.

WP:CITE#Say where you got it: I was the editor who originally introduced this guideline and I have argued that it should be a policy. However, the introduction of WP:CITE identifies it as a guideline, not as a policy. A single violation of a guideline is not a reason to block someone indefinitely. If it is identified as only the trigger, there is an onus to produce the gun. If a single violation of WP:CITE#Say where you got it is a blockable offence, here are some more regular editors to block for multiple violations. I'll just give one example for each: Amoruso [39] (text of last "quote" does not match source), Isarig [40], Shamir1 [41] (the latter two are welcome to prove me wrong about those obscure Arabic sources that just happen to be in all the internet propaganda sites).

Final unwise comment: The status of the Arbitration Committee is at stake here. If we can get a long-term editor banned in a couple of hours without the need to hear a defence or even to provide a carefully presented case, then why should anyone go to all the effort of preparing an Arbitration Committee case?

--Zerotalk 11:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Isarig

I have come across many of PR's edits, in both the main namespace and the Talk pages. Without exception, every single one of those I've seen was blatant POV-pushing, conspiracy-theory mongering or a personal attack. I am shocked that some longtime editors here could be fooled into thinking that this is 'a skilled writer and researcher'. I am less surprised that some of his co-POV-pushers have gone to lengths to falsely describe him as "longtime editor". Jaygj's actions here are impeccable. It is false that Jay's original claim (that PR copied this from a Holocaust denying website) has been proven wrong - all that has been done is that a few other non-Holocaust denying sources for the quote have appeared, but we have no way of knowing where PR copied it from. What we do know conclusively is that PR lied about where the got the quote originally, and has given two different accounts of where he really got them (first it was Hadawi's book which he allegedly has, then it was "some usenet group"). As noted above, PR is a self-declared SPA, created to push a POV - we don't need these kind of editors on the project. Isarig 14:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Eagle 101

I would suggest that arbcom take up the issue as it has grown beyond a simple open shut case, with several users in good standing objecting the ban. (please note I am currently indifferent about any potential ban, though I originally thought the ban was unjust, but the evidence is not clear either way, at least for me, and deserves a more indepth approach, then just listing things on a noticeboard.). —— Eagle101Need help? 15:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to mention that I thought a ban was when no other admin was willing to undo, not the result of some majority vote, as I see some comments above and below. To me a ban is when a member of the community has worn out the community's patience to such a point that nobody is willing to unblock or give them a second chance. If this is not the case... I'd like to know. Thanks —— Eagle101Need help? 21:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor Kendrick7

I urge arbcom to take up this case. The CN process began with allegations, since shown to be false, which, intended or not, clearly incited a knee-jerk response from the mobile vulgus. This is a clear example of when ArbCom must step in to dispassionately examine the situation at hand. -- Kendrick7talk 18:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response to GHCool's statement I couldn't this let slide that his statement references comments PalestineRemembered made in October and December of 2006, prior to several of his recent blocks only to conclude "This guy has been blocked several times and just doesn't learn." Lack of evidence to the contrary suggests PR in fact has learned. GHCool's complaint that PalestineRemembered is a single purpose account, followed by his complaint that he won't stay corralled within a predictable set of articles (such as the Flag of Palestine, as if that article needed expert attention?) is also contradictory. -- Kendrick7talk 18:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by unblocing admin Zscout370

With notation of the ArbCom below, I have decided to unblock the subject of this case, PalestineRemembered. I have also pasted words of caution and places where he should only edit. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved FayssalF

I've got two points. We haven't banned indef many other users who passed through here several times. In a case below, arbitrators are discussing an appeal process. We got all those scenarios out there but here we are discussing a ban of a user using questionable reasons!

The second point which i have referred to at the CN earlier today is the block log. 1/The first block by FeloniousMonk is questionable. Can FM please justify the 1 month block especially that it was the first block. 2/The second block of FeloniousMonk may be justified only if the first one is. 3/The third block by Jayjg is unjustified. Jayjg referred to a talk page comment as a justification. Can you explain Jayjg why did you consider this link as a justification for another 1 block? 4/The fourth indef block by Seraphimblade is quite harsh. The reason was user has had plenty of chances. Which chances? I only can accept that if the earlier blocks are justified. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 20:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved GRBerry

For the avoidance of doubt, as it affects Mackensen's opinion below on hearing the case, I would be willing to undo the indefinite block as unsupported by either the claimed foul or the community discussion. (He has already been unblocked with the summary "unblocking for ArbCom case" by Zscout370, so this won't show in the block log. My read of the discussion at the community noticeboard is that there is no consensus for a ban/indefinite block. Under the most ban favorable reading of the opinions, they currently run 24 for banning, 15 against, and 4 abstaining or unclear. At 24/15 that is only 62% for banning, which is not enough to justify a ban. As the real evidence was not presented until ChrisO's opinion, I'd be quite prepared to disregard anyone who opined before then for the reason that they were opining on false information. As the early opinions were more in favor of banning it seems quite obvious that there is no consensus for a ban.The longest block I could support for this particular violation is the time already served, and the evidence actually presented (diffs, etc...) at the noticeboard is of a good contribution record with only a minor citation lapse since his prior block. I prefer, however, to have the committee hear this case, as you can look at the actions of all parties and insist upon diffs to support claims. GRBerry 20:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved editor 6SJ7

Although the trend seems to headed in favor of accepting this case, I will still offer my opinion that it should not be accepted. The issue is whether or not there is community support for a ban, and that is something that can be (and was being) determined by the established procedures, before the Arb Com case was filed. It is clear from the discussion on the noticeboard that the filing of this case short-circuited that process. Intervention by the Arb Com is both unecessary, and may encourage future premature filings when a community process isn't going the way someone wants. It is also clear that this request has taken on an ideological tone. Those who agree with the POV of PalestineRemembered, and/or those with past grievances against Jayjg, have predictably urged the Arb Com to take this case, and I can't help feeling that this has a larger purpose. Such a purpose is not, however, one that the Arb Com is designed to fulfill. 6SJ7 00:01, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

  • PalestineRemembered's statement copied from his talk page as he is currently blocked and cannot post here. --Srikeit 09:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (6/1/0/0)

  • Reject, per Jpgordon. FloNight 11:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC) Accept, since an admin has stated that he will undo the indef block. An ArbCom case is needed to stop this from exploding into an ongoing disruptive situation with wheel warring. (Folks, be on your best behavior on the ArbCom case pages. Not the best place for disruptive editing.) FloNight 22:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept. - There are several strong objections to a ban on CN. In my view, any such objections by users in good standing should redirect a case to ArbCom deliberations. - SimonP 13:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept per SimonP. Kirill Lokshin 16:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept. We have two choices: accept reviews of community bans, or kick them into touch. I would prefer some third, light-weight option. Absent that, my default is to accept review cases. Charles Matthews 18:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Decline. At this juncture, he subject user has been unblocked. It appears to me that, with more complete evidence available, the community doesn't support a block or ban. I doubt if this committee would come to any different conclusion. Therefore, I conclude there is nothing for us to do. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 18:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requests for clarification

Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process. Place new requests at the top.

Appeal from Olaf Stephanos

In the recent Falun Gong arbitration case, User:Mcconn was placed on revert parole. However, according to CU performed by User:Dmcdevit, we have found out that the banned editor User:Samuel Luo has been using a wide variety of sockpuppets during the course of the last year. Among them are User:Pirate101, User:Yueyuen (an involved editor in the ArbCom case!), User:Kent888, User:Kent8888 and User:Mr.He, probably newly registered users User:Foullou, User:Shimanan, User:IamYueyuen, User:Gtyh and User:Fufg as well. Most incidents of Mcconn's revert warring took place against these sockpuppets. Therefore, I plead the ArbCom to lift the revert parole that was imposed on him, as it hardly feels justified in the light of this recent information. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 17:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:Mcconn needs to have the self control to deal with other users if they disagree about content. And follow the proper channels for dealing with problem users. This includes users that are using sock puppets. FloNight 18:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Appeal from Koavf

Koavf (talk · contribs · block log) recently contacted me via email, asking for an appeal by the ArbCom of his indefinite block, which was placed in November by Dmcdevit with the log summary of "Extensive block history for perpetually edit warring and disruptive behavior, but behavior is unmodified. Exhaustion of the community's patience." Koavf's reasons for his unblock are copied below:

I personally desire to be unblocked because I enjoyed editing Wikipedia and I was in the middle of several articles that were enjoyable for me to write. As for the community at large, I feel like I have made several thousand useful edits, including writing whole articles that were valuable and may not have been written with the quality or expediency that I brought to them (I am particularly proud of List of African Union member states by political system.) Furthermore, the contributions on Western Sahara-related articles has completely stagnated as I've been gone and there is no indication that this trend will reverse. I feel like I can engage the community as a mature member and that the block I have been given is disproportionate to the amount of quality that I added to the endeavor at large.

He also wrote that "I am seeking to be unblocked by the Arbitration Committee; I have been blocked for several months and was a very active contributor to Wikipedia prior to the block. I have tried several means to get unblocked, and none of them have borne fruit (e.g. the most recent was e-mailing the blocking admin, who has not responded in over a week.)"

Following some discussion on our mailing list, it was suggested that Koavf be unblocked and instead placed on standard revert parole. This seems reasonable; his block log shows multiple prior blocks for 3RR violations, and a revert parole would thus hopefully address that issue while allowing him to continue his ways as a productive editor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flcelloguy (talk • contribs)

Motion for Unblock and standard revert parole (4/0/0/0)

Koavf (talk · contribs) is unblocked and placed on standard revert parole. He is hereby limited to a maximum of one content revert per page per day for one year. Each revert must be explicitly marked as such. Any such violations may result in further blocks of up to 24 hours, and multiple violations (i.e. three or more) may result in longer blocks or the resumption of the original indefinite block, depending on the administrator's discretion. Blocks should be mentioned on the requests for Arbitration page.

Clerk note: There are currently 11 active arbitrators, so a majority is 6. Newyorkbrad 04:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

(Not sure where you want this.) I don't quite understand this particular motion without a case. I don't feel vehemently about any half-year old ban of mine, but I do disagree that it should be done this way. Mostly, an arbitration case should never take anyone by surprise. The original ban was endorsed by several admins, and no one in the community was willing to unblock after an ANI discussion. If anyone (arbitrators included) think that a revert parole is a better option, it would have been better to 1) discuss with the blocking administrator and then 2) put it to the community on some noticeboard. That's normal admin courtesy. I can't avoid the feeling that, by bypassing the usual options, arbcom has essentially (whether intentionally or not) mixed up their administrator and arbitrator hats. Dmcdevit·t 07:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree this seems like a bad idea, and is without precedent in the 9 months I have been a clerk. Unless FIcelloguy wants to act directly as an admin and unblock Koavf, the Arbcom precedent would be to list the appeal as a routine request. If four or more arbitrators agree to hear the case, a full case with an evidence and workshop page would be opened. Here you are going directly to the final decision without any input from the blocking admin or other editors who discussed the case when it was reported on the noticeboard. Thatcher131 14:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Full link to discussion of indefinite block is here. Thatcher131 14:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think the reason this procedure is being used is that the editor in question is blocked indefinitely, so he has no on-wiki method of requesting a reduction in the sanction against him. Therefore, he properly wrote to the Arbitration Committee, as recommended, and arbitrators apparently concluded that they could reduce the sanction as indicated without needing evidence and a workshop.
I think that procedurally, what is proposed here is the equivalent of setting up an expedited procedure ("summary docket") that the arbitrators would use for matters in which they believe ArbCom action is appropriate but the full panoply of opening a case is not necessary. I suppose last month's fast-tracked confirmation of the Robdurbar desysopping would be a procedural precedent, not that the two cases are otherwise comparable in any way. On the one hand, it would make sense that such an expedited procedure be established for less controversial items (perhaps with a caveat that this procedure could not be used if any arbitrator objected, or if more than one arbitrator objected). The counter-argument is that the experience of real-world legal systems is that such special expedited procedures quickly tend to get overused, including for matters that would benefit from more plenary consideration. Newyorkbrad 14:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To answer a few of the qualms: I, too, was at first a little hesitant about any such appeals method. But the email from Koavf indicated that he had tried other means of recourse, including emailing the blocking admin (Dmcdevit) previously, with no reply. He attempted an unblock request in January of this year, which was denied; people told him to take his appeals process to the Arbitration Committee because he was blocked indefinitely. Whether or not it's technically a "ban" seemed a bit irrelevant; people pointed him to us, citing the appeals process. It was clear that, with that advice having been given to him, that the Arbitration Committee would be the only ones able to listen to his case and act. With that in mind and the appeals of all bans in our "jurisdiction", I was still a little bit hesitant about how to proceed. After receiving his email, I forwarded (like I would any other email pertaining to ArbCom business) his email to the mailing list and asked for thoughts on how to proceed. It was suggested by another Arbitrator that we take the option of unblocking him, and placing him on standard revert parole - his block log and prior discussions indicated that this was one of the primary reasons that hindered him from being a productive editor. Several Arbitrators agreed with this proposal, at which point I asked for advice on how to proceed - how would we treat this? Another Arbitrator responded that it should be treated like a standard appeals and placed in the "clarification" section. With sufficient time given and no objections heard, I proceeded with placing this request on here.
Regarding the lack of a complete case for this matter: this was something, as I mentioned above, that I asked for feedback on from my fellow Arbitrators, and they all seemed comfortable with this method. I saw little merit in starting a new case; unlike the typical case that we accept, there would be no need for a workshop, proposed decisions, evidence, etc. - the only thing that we were considering is whether or not to unblock this particular editor, and if so, whether or not to place him on standard revert parole. Other editors are, of course, free to comment here, but as no Arbitrator had opposed placing this unblock to a vote, I didn't see a need to vote on whether or not to "accept" a case - an Arbitrator either believes that the editor should be unblocked, or he doesn't. (Of course, they are all free to propose alternate solutions and remedies.) It seemed redundant to vote on "accepting" the case and then voting again on the one proposed action, when, in essence, anyone accepting the case would be supporting the unblock, while those against opening would be against the unblock. Again, no objections were heard at all in the time this was discussed on our mailing list, and we all looked into the circumstances surrounding his unblock carefully.
Those are the reasons why I felt comfortable proceeding with this request, having discussed this and being advised to proceed in this manner by other Arbitrators. It should also be noted that I contacted Dmcdevit as well after I placed this appeal from Koavf on here, notifying him of the appeal. Perhaps I should have contacted all the other editors who discussed the indefinite block in the first place; if so, I apologize. I - and the rest of the committee - of course respect and understand your qualms about this, but I hope I've made clear why I felt comfortable proceeding in the manner I did. (If I didn't address any of your concerns inadvertantly, please let me know and I'll do so.) Additional feedback and comments about the process or case are, as always, welcome. Thanks for your understanding. Flcelloguy (A note?) 15:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so concerned about the lack of a case, or "jurisdiction" issues—I've always felt that simple cases should be resolved with open motions, not full cases, but the previous ArbCom never warmed to my idea—but that this block was uncontested, and ArbCom's action came out of the blue. If any of the arbitrators, upon receiving Koavf's email, felt that lifting the ban was a good idea, simply saying so as a respected administrator on ANI would have been enough. The problem here is that by using arbitration to make a simple admin decision–especially when, if you had contacted any of us who had discussed it previously, it would be clear that limiting the ban to some kind of probation is not that controversial–ArbCom seems to be limiting admin discretion in favor of sending more cases to arbitraton instead. (I have a laundry list of users community banned by adminstrators and upheld by the community who still want to be unblocked, probably several a week, if ArbCom would like to have at them all. )Dmcdevit·t 05:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think this appeal should have been exposed to public. No one from the list of people who participated at the AN/I discussion have been informed of this process. I think people should be informed at least.

Anyway, as i had stated in the AN/I back on November 2006, i have no objection to see Koavf contributing again but it remains conditional (partial ban - see AN/I). I still think the same. In parallel, i don't understand that if they revert more than once a day they'd only be blocked for 24h. Why not longer? Why not putting them on a probation period with stricter conditions instead? Anyway, i assume good faith and would not object if Justin is willing to do as they say. I'd have no problems in seeing them contributing again but totally POV-free the same way they have done at Citizendium. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 19:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with FayassalF. I'm surprised that the arbcom is willing to unblock someone banned with a clear community consensus per discussion on the incident noticeboard and without a strong reason to involve itself. (This does not look like a case that would be accepted if it had been brought back in November.) I therefore think this looks like bypassing the community, which should only be done when it is clear the arbcom can do a better job of resolving the dispute than the community can. That said, I would welcome Koavf back if he promises not to edit war anymore, but has he done so? If so, where? Picaroon (Talk) 21:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind the Arbitration Committee taking cases like this, so long as the community is given the opportunity of final appeal (i.e. if ArbCom reverses a ban, the community can restore the ban after another discussion). Ral315 » 02:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Two things here. If the community would have the final word than why do we have to go through here? Also, who would define the conditions? -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 02:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To the first point, it wouldn't be a requirement to go through here, merely another way of reversal. Very rarely would there be a case where a ban reversed by ArbCom would be questionable (I'd argue almost never would this happen). Second, the conditions would be defined by the cases where ArbCom chooses to step in, and afterward, in the cases where someone appeals the ban on WP:AN or elsewhere, and the community agrees that the case is worth looking at. Ral315 » 02:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks and partially agree. Because i heard about a 24h sanction in case of a 3RR infraction. Isn't this applied to all users? If the unblock would be executed under such conditions than the community would surely disagree. But where, how and when? -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 02:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would assume that this wouldn't apply to any short-term blocks - any ArbCom action taken on a community decision would take at least a week, presumably - I'm talking about this covering blocks of, say, 1 month or more. But since this is a rare case currently, I don't think any real rules on it need to be defined. Ral315 » 03:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Reddi 2

It's more than one year since this closed, so the specific sanctions against Reddi are no longer in place.

I'm under the impression that Reddi is violating the spirit of this ArbCom decision (with the additional problem of abusing Wikipedia:WikiProject Paranormal as vote bank, see this evidence in the Paranormal case).

Do I have to go through all steps of conflict resolution again or can I restart an ArbCom case directly?

Pjacobi 15:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • You should certainly make some kind of good faith attempt to discuss the situation with him, but I expect the committee will take Reddi's history into account and not require the full gamut of dispute resolution before considering a case. Thatcher131 16:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Motions in prior cases

(Only Arbitrators may make and vote on such motions. Other editors may comment on the talk page)



Archives
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests&oldid=131169149"